Just need to vent, SO is losing their job

[Deleted]

I think it gives you a better idea than never being in a classroom and thinking teaching 'sounds cool' ... and you could look at a couple places... the point being to look at it seriously for at least a few days before committing ... something he apparently should have done before committing to IT (actually something i think most of us should do before choosing a career at 18 or so....) ...

[Firebird]

Sounds like he wants to make a change but isn't sure how to do it. I don't think that is petulant, especially if he's been in the same field for a long time.

That was apparently a poor word choice on my part because several people reacted strongly to it and I didn't really mean it the way it came out. I agree that there's nothing wrong with working things out with your spouse, figuring out what you want to do, etc. And none of that makes you petulant. In fact, the main thing I'm objecting to is the impression I got that he ISN'T doing any of that with his wife. It seems to me like he's kind of floundering around on his own without letting her in on his thinking (hence why she might be thinking he only wants the job so he can have summers off, when for all she knows he's put a lot of thought into this and decided that it's his dream career).

But I could be way off-base here and putting my own bias into things. Absolutely a possibility. If I had stayed with an ex of mine, this would have eventually become a huge issue between us so maybe I'm just projecting. I don't know.

[zibazinski]

There is that. I wanted to be an archeologist and ended up a school teacher, thank GOD my parents were killjoys.

[thyme4change]

In fact, the main thing I'm objecting to is the impression I got that he ISN'T doing any of that with his wife. It seems to me like he's kind of floundering around on his own without letting her in on his thinking

And that is why I suggested to the OP to soften her approach. We can't give the OP's husband advice, because he isn't here. But, if the OP wants her husband to include her in his thoughts, I don't think she should start with her list of demands. (Get a job, making at least $50k, with a short commute and take care of all the child's needs.)

[Deleted]

And actually, it seems to me that he gave an idea, and she shot it down nice and tight, and that he's been pretty good about living by the rules she sets on employment and income levels and childrearing... I see him as someone not willing to shake the boat too much, at work or at home, and so just willing to tow what line she sets... I'm sure we're both projecting some ....

[zibazinski]

I think she has only said get a job. I missed the rest of that.

[Deleted]

I think I misunderstood... she said '50K jobs are acceptable' ... i thought she was setting a lower limit... apparently he had been saying he didn't want to apply to jobs that 'low' and she said it was ok to apply to jobs that low...

[Firebird]

And actually, it seems to me that he gave an idea, and she shot it down nice and tight, and that he's been pretty good about living by the rules she sets on employment and income levels and childrearing... I see him as someone not willing to shake the boat too much, at work or at home, and so just willing to tow what line she sets... I'm sure we're both projecting some ....

But are they the rules "she" set or did they mutually decide that those rules were best for their family? That's the tricky part.

If DH and I together had decided that it was okay for him to take a paycut to $50k but no lower, and his job had to be near our kids' school so he could do childcare, and meanwhile I'd work the higher-paying job so we'd be all set financially if he was ever unemployed while he was getting a new job, and this was working for all of us just fine when he decided he wanted to change the plan, I would be pretty thrown and possibly kind of upset, depending on how he raised it.

It's not that I would NEVER be open to changing the plan - it's important to be flexible, and of course I don't want a miserable DH - but during a layoff is probably not the best time to approach me about this kind of change for the first time.

[telephus44]

I agree that OP needs to sit down and talk without a big list of demands. It sounds like she has determined what is best for the family without taking her DH's opinion into account. If they aren't on the same page with what is best for the family, then they're never going to come to agreement on his employment situation.

I know we all read into things, but my guess is that maybe he hasn't always secretly wanted to be a teacher, but that one day OP asked him what would he want to do and that was an easy answer that fit in with his goals about working. Maybe he doesn't want to work as many hours or spend more time with their kids, and this was a way to gauge her reaction.

Also, seriously - how long has he been unemployed? I don't think he's acting child-like or neglecting his fatherly duties if he goes a few months without a job.

What we've done when one of us is unemployed in generally cut back on expenses, and looked for jobs. The longest stretch of time was 9 months for DH and he had no unemployment. Believe it or not, he did finish his degree during that time - although he was only 4-5 classes short - and we did pay for most of that (his mother paid for a little). To be honest, that's part of the reason we're a 2 income family - it's easier to weather a job loss of one spouse when the other one is already working than it is in the single income household.

Also - if OP feels like she has to carry all the burden and responsbility on her shoulders - she should tell him that too, and see if there's anything that her husband can do. Maybe he's tired of taking responsbility for all the family stuff and they can both do a bit of each. I've had several conversations lately with my husband about feeling overly responsible for handling the burden for our son's autism, and he's stepped up to the plate by taking him to appointments and being willing to discuss it with me.

[zibazinski]

I don't think he has lost his job just yet but that he is going to. Good time to be looking, though, before that last paycheck.

[raeoflyte]

Mar 30, 2012 16:04:54 GMT -5 Firebird said:

It's not that I would NEVER be open to changing the plan - it's important to be flexible, and of course I don't want a miserable DH - but during a layoff is probably not the best time to approach me about this kind of change for the first time.

If not during a layoff, then when? And if it seems apparent that this field isn't working out for him, wouldn't the time be better spent (especially since the bills are paid, and savings are in place without his income) to find something that might work better? I can't quite see pushing him back into an IT job just so he has a salary, and then tell him to figure out a new career line.

The way we survived my 3 month layoff was savings, severance and ue. Eventually I took a job at a 50% pay cut when I realized that no I could not get a similar salary as I had before. Then I changed career paths (to the next riskiest industry--but of course I didn't realize that) My other layoffs I was lucky to get a new job immediately.

I'll ask again--how long has SO been unemployed over the years?

As others have said, we're all projecting our own situation. My DH's career drive has get up and gone. I'm working on voicing my concerns about our financial situation, and I am still holding out hope that DH figures out some way to make a good income doing something that he enjoys, or that he can accept a simple life and cut out wants for all the extras.

I could belittle or yell at dh for not holding up his end of the plan--he really didn't. I've supported him through school, will be paying his student loans, and he still averages only 30 hours a week at a salary that we could not get by on--but where would that get us? I feel that its better for us to figure out a new plan together. Because in the end your choices are to accept and move forward or divorce.

Household chore division is something that we're working on too, and I agree that the person not working should pick up considerably more of the housework. At the very least they don't have a commute, and even my house stays presentable with 30 minutes of effort a day.

[Deleted]

Mar 30, 2012 16:04:54 GMT -5 Firebird said:

And actually, it seems to me that he gave an idea, and she shot it down nice and tight, and that he's been pretty good about living by the rules she sets on employment and income levels and childrearing... I see him as someone not willing to shake the boat too much, at work or at home, and so just willing to tow what line she sets... I'm sure we're both projecting some ....

But are they the rules "she" set or did they mutually decide that those rules were best for their family? That's the tricky part.

If DH and I together had decided that it was okay for him to take a paycut to $50k but no lower, and his job had to be near our kids' school so he could do childcare, and meanwhile I'd work the higher-paying job so we'd be all set financially if he was ever unemployed while he was getting a new job, and this was working for all of us just fine when he decided he wanted to change the plan, I would be pretty thrown and possibly kind of upset, depending on how he raised it.

It's not that I would NEVER be open to changing the plan - it's important to be flexible, and of course I don't want a miserable DH - but during a layoff is probably not the best time to approach me about this kind of change for the first time.

I guess i would like to know what world you are all living in where there are abundance of $50K+ jobs that you just walk in too?

[Deleted]

As for the SO, i don't know that i would commit to him going back for more school. Sometimes in life, you just make the best of what you have. And, if he isn't overly ambitious and taking on more student loans and time of him not in the workforce may simply not be worth it. As for his happiness, well sometimes in life you just make the best of your job. Your job is your job. It pays the bills. It it isn't fulfilling, so what? Find things in your off time that fulfill you. If he isn't cut out for IT, fine. But, then get a job doing something else. You may have to accept lower income if he finds something where he can get up and go to work everyday, but in the long run you will both be happier if he is working, even at a lesser income.

[Deleted]

Did you see where i posted that at Easter Illinois he could do an alternative certification program... take the test by April 14, arrange an internship by the end of May, take a web based course in May, take an 8 week session this summer, teach in a PAID internship for the 2012-2013 school year, have a 2 week follow up class and receive a 4 year provisional teaching liscence ...by next summer (2013) ?? All for around/under 9K ...

Now i'm guessing the internship won't pay much... but i would think it would pay 9K at least, meaning he could end the year neutral... but with a teaching certificate in Technology Education....

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"If not during a layoff, then when?":::...

I second this. Leeches will use the "its not a good time" or "I'm still hurt" card as LONG as you will let them. I let DF milk that nonsense for over a year, and I regret every second of it. If she'd found time to visit the gym, it might have been OK. But she always had time to read and relax while I worked.

Think about what is at stake. They get all the benefits of money coming in, without having to work for it. Meanwhile, you get the fun of working to support someone who is doing nothing for you.

I'd also be worried that the longer they were out of work, the longer they could sucker you for alimony by playing the "manner in which they are accustomed" card. You don't want your spouse out of work for too long, it costs too much.

[giramomma]

Another thing to look into is Teach for America and other programs like that. They take people with non-teaching degrees, have them teach in some not so savory areas and then when you are done with the program you get a teaching certificate. You also get a stipend. Granted it's not a ton, but it's something, and the only costs that would be incurred would be additional living expenses that the stipend wouldn't cover.

[ontrack]

FYI it's really hard to get into Teach for America these days--really hard. Most of the slots go to Ivy league graduates. Also, the alternative teacher programs are hard to get into to. My friend tried 3 different states, and was turned down all by all three. She's getting a master's in ed now.

[zibazinski]

I doubt he really wants to be a teacher anyway, just threw it out as opposed to saying I don't want to work anymore. I'm sure he can get another job and that should be his goal.

[thyme4change]

If not during a layoff, then when?

I also agree that during a layoff can be an ideal to reevaluate. Why get another job, just to quit?

[zibazinski]

Because they need to get a job and help out with the bills. Not just quit because they don't feel like working anymore and they're UNHAPPY. I get so tired of hearing that nonsense. I like the poster who said its called WORK because it IS.

[thyme4change]

They didn't quit, and the bills are being paid.

[muttleynfelix]

Apr 6, 2012 11:48:33 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Because they need to get a job and help out with the bills. Not just quit because they don't feel like working anymore and they're UNHAPPY. I get so tired of hearing that nonsense. I like the poster who said its called WORK because it IS.

Is it never acceptable to switch careers in your opinion? Because honestly that is what this sounds like.

I think the OP needs to cut her SO some slack, and have some real convsersations about expecations, future plans and what they want out of life.

But what do I know? My DH is obviously a leach since he stays home with our DS.

[zibazinski]

That was what the two of you decided on. The OP is not okay with him not working.

[muttleynfelix]

That wasn't the point of my post.

Please let me know when you think it is acceptable to change careers because from your previous post the answer is never.

[Deleted]

I received my teaching license by going through an alternative licensure program and it is true that you are paid while you teach. They do not pay for college courses for your licensure, however, and I now have an additional $22,000 in student loans.

I had to take the classes from the college that the program chose so I had to pay tuition at a private college and not a state one.

[Firebird]

Is it never acceptable to switch careers in your opinion? Because honestly that is what this sounds like.

DH is trying to switch careers right now and I'm 100% behind him even if it means taking a paycut for awhile (which it will) and even if the timing sucks (which it does). Reasons I'm not only okay with it but excited about it are as follows:

1) It's something that we've discussed thoroughly.

2) The new career is something we both know he'd be 10x happier doing (and that's really worth a lot to me when his current career is making him miserable).

3) He can likely climb the new ladder quickly enough to equal or exceed what he's making now within a few years.

4) He's okay with the idea of scaling down our lifestyle for awhile, knowing that he's going to be making less money when we have serious short-term goals to meet this year. He's not about to continue his current spending patterns if his pay is cut by half or more.

All of the above, plus a general feeling of reassurance that DH and I are on the same team and we want the same goals for our family which most certainly include both of us being happy in our work, was mandatory for me before I was willing to fully support the career change.

Definitely wouldn't have been okay with it if his reasons had anything to do with wanting to work less just for the sake of working less, and especially if he simply expected me to step up and take care of business while he did as he pleased.

[Firebird]

If not during a layoff, then when? And if it seems apparent that this field isn't working out for him, wouldn't the time be better spent (especially since the bills are paid, and savings are in place without his income) to find something that might work better? I can't quite see pushing him back into an IT job just so he has a salary, and then tell him to figure out a new career line.

During a layoff, to me, would be the worst possible time to make this kind of reevaluation. Reasons:

1) The inertia factor. It's a lot easier to do the work and research involved in embarking on a new career when the alternative is continuing to go to work at a job you hate (versus when the alternative is "more couch time while my honey supports me").

2) The time factor. New careers can take time to launch. The company DH is trying to work for is EXTREMELY competitive and he was applying regularly for at least seven or eight months before he even got an interview. It's way harder to jump start a new career than it is to get a new job in the career in which you've been working for years, for which you have a network of contacts and a load of experience.

3) The money factor. Let's say it takes twelve months to find a new job in this new career, and when you did get it there would be a $20k paycut, versus it takes three months to find a new job in this old career making the same amount of money. Wouldn't it be nice if you were making the same amount of money during that nine month period where you're trying to break into the new industry?

4) The resentment factor. Oh gee, how convenient for you that you got laid off and my job pays all of our bills. You can just take as much time as you need to get that new career started, can't you? If our current agreement was that both spouses were supposed to be working, I could see myself really resenting DH in that situation.

I recognize that money isn't an issue for this couple and the last one could certainly be mitigated with a lot of discussion beforehand. But if my DH was laid off and THEN sprung the idea of changing careers on me, I would feel really blindsided.

[Angel!]

Apr 6, 2012 13:16:52 GMT -5 Firebird said:

[4) The resentment factor. Oh gee, how convenient for you that you got laid off and my job pays all of our bills. You can just take as much time as you need to get that new career started, can't you? If our current agreement was that both spouses were supposed to be working, I could see myself really resenting DH in that situation.

I could get that, but on the other hand the OP is resentful that her husband keeps getting laid off. She doesn't want him to change careers, but then gets upset over layoffs that are very common in his field. She is creating a no-win situation for her husband & for herself.

[Firebird]

I could get that, but on the other hand the OP is resentful that her husband keeps getting laid off. She doesn't want him to change careers, but then gets upset over layoffs that are very common in his field. She is creating a no-win situation for her husband & for herself.

True. She needs to be okay with occasional layoffs if she wants him in this field. I'm just saying that I could see her not being okay with the career change happening DURING a layoff.

It sounds to me like she thinks he's lazy. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it but that's the impression I get. And personally, I hate lazy. I don't do well with lazy. DH has an awesome work ethic and I trust him to do his best to find and keep a job as long as our agreement involves him working.

If I didn't have that trust, I'd be a lot less okay with things like random career changes and lengthy layoffs.

[muttleynfelix]

But if the new career requires education, why would you not do it while unemployed?

I don't know the OP or the OP's SO. The perception of the "SO sitting on the couch while honey supports me" 100% depends on the couple. The OP has repeatedly said that her SO is the primary caregiver and has also not indicated how long these stints of unemployment have lasted. When my DH has been unemployed he has works harder than when he had a job (and not at job hunting, the jobs came due to previous contacts, he worked harder around the house and got projects done, still does). Once again it depends on the people involved. It sounds like the OP wants one thing in the future and her SO wants another. Does the SO know that the OP is counting on him for insurance (whether through a job - which IMO means it makes more sense to go for the teaching thing if that is what he wants or extra savings now) so she can retire relatively early?