zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 29, 2012 15:46:06 GMT -5
Single parents don't have the option of finding themselves or the luxury of loving their job everyday. What they do is suck it up and go to work because they have bills to pay. If she is going to be a single parent, why hassle with a spouse? Especially one she cannot respect. But I agree, time to sit down and if that causes pants in a wad, then there are other steps to take. Amazing if the money doesn't flow, sometimes you get off your high horse and get a job.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 29, 2012 15:47:22 GMT -5
But time and past time to have a serious talk about what your goals for the future are and how you both are going to get there. You won't be the first one to find out that the person you married isn't there anymore.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 29, 2012 15:49:26 GMT -5
Skin in the game is what causes change.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 15:51:52 GMT -5
The op has not been out of work for years, nor do I see where he is asking for time to find himself?
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 29, 2012 16:03:08 GMT -5
Any arrangement that works for the two people in the marriage is acceptable. The hard part is finding the arrangement.
I feel brow-beaten by the OP and I've never met the person. I can only imagne how her husband feels after she barfs all her cold uncaringness on him. As far as I can tell, he wants to work - as a teacher. But the OP responded "That's just because you will get summers off - while I will have to go to work."
I'm surprised that chuckie has showed up and called this lady a golddigger.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 29, 2012 16:03:40 GMT -5
But, he isn't putting the family's future at risk. He just isn't helping them to get to the OP's goals faster. The problem seems to be that their goals for the future don't align. I can see why I wouldn't want to have a miserable job simply because my spouse has goal X for our family, especially if that goal isn't a priority for me. But am I wrong to think that a grown adult should be pulling their weight and at least 1/2 the weight of any offspring they have? And if such an arrangement of I'll stay home with kids or be less career oriented and keept he house/family together - doesn't the breadwinner need to agree? OP opens up with the SO doesn't do laundry while they are looking for a job - what the hell is up with that? That is indicative to me of someone who is just trying to "get out of things" not be a partner in all that needs doing. The laundry thing is weird & would bother me. I also agree that the breadwinner needs to agree to having a SAHS. However, pulling half the weight is dependent on a lot of things. If I marry someone that makes 120K/yr, then I'm never going to be pulling 1/2 the weight. If I marry someone that consistently works 60 hrs/wk, then I am never going to be pulling 1/2 the weight because I have no interest in working that much. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't heard about extended periods of unemployment or him refusing to work. Getting laid off in a field like IT 4 times in 12 years isn't that extreme. It just sounds like the OP is mostly mad he isn't willing to work harder to bring in extra income & is pissed he would consider a career where he would get summers off. Some people just have different priorities & as long as he is working 40 hrs/wk at some sort of job & contributing, then I think that is ok. If she wanted someone that would constantly push to advance their career & make more money, then she married the wrong dude. Some people just aren't wired that way.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 29, 2012 16:06:22 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 17:25:59 GMT -5
I haven't read anything from the OP that made me think she's dogging her husband for not living up to her standards. It seems to be more that he has a more relaxed attitude about their finances and future than she does and she's not happy about it. Him saying that her income will take care of everything puts all the pressure on her and I understand her not being thrilled about it. She's worried about what her health issues mean for their future, and how health insurance will play into it all. I think those are valid concerns that both partners should share.
It doesn't sound like she's demanding he bring home the big bucks, just wants him to participate in planning instead of putting it all on her and her income. Meaning....... work on getting a new job when he finds out the current one is ending, not wait until it's gone and then think about it. I don't think she's a bitch for being more interested in how they're going to take care of their responsibilites and their future than ensuring that he's happy and fulfilled with his work.
I just don't think she came here to belittle her husband, and I don't have reason to think she belittles him IRL. She had something on her mind that was bothering her and she came here to get it out. Maybe the layoff is just one. more. thing. on top of some other stuff that's bothering her about her marriage and/or finances and she wanted to vent somewhere where it wouldn't affect her real life. Nothing wrong with that and I'm not seeing the horrible person some other posters are seeing.
JMO of course.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 29, 2012 17:48:29 GMT -5
I don't think she is a horrible person at all. Not being on the same page as a spouse is extremely frustrating & I get why she would come vent. I just don't think he is the horrible guy that some posters seem to be seeing either.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 18:40:38 GMT -5
I don't think she is a horrible person at all. Not being on the same page as a spouse is extremely frustrating & I get why she would come vent. I just don't think he is the horrible guy that some posters seem to be seeing either.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 19:16:37 GMT -5
Our child is 9. When she turns 12 the plan is for the money currently spent on childcare to go into savings for her college. As stated before, financially we are in good shape. EF = 6-8 months of total household expenses (which I can cover on my salary alone). Note, it would have been much higher but around a year and a half ago we had to do an entire septic system replacement (unplanned) which included tearing up concrete in the basement and reworking all the plumbing in the basement. The cost of the project was over 30k and we paid cash. Another example of why it's good to have a solid EF ;D I believe we should be able to start building up non retirement investments at this point in our lives. I would also like to be able to start getting into rental properties to generate income streams outside of employment. I don't want to have to work until I am 70 and honestly, due to health issues, think I'd be lucky to be able to work until 62. Don't want to get into detail on that topic but just accept my plan since my mother died from the same condition at age 65. Have you considered that maybe your SO just isn't as motivated and ambitious as you are? And, if that is the case , planning to take on rental properties and such is only going to HEAP more and anxiety and stress upon you? I would suggest that you really take a step back and truly look at one another's tempermants. Sometimes you really have to do this and make adjustments on both your parts. And, as for the wife becoming sole breadwinner. Lots of women say and think that is fine, but it can make for a lot of stress. I have the ability and degrees to outearn my spouse and in fact, i do. And, we discussed me working FT and a more high pressured job with him downsizing his career and we did for a time but in knew in the long run it wasn't good for either of us. Instead, i downsized my career somewhat and he went back FT and i think we are both happier because i can happily assume more mom roles. And, yes, there was a price to pay in terms of income and earnings and we did downsize our lifestyle somewhat as well. But, overall, our life is much less stressful. And, for men, sometimes when they lose traction in life, it is very difficult to recover. If he feels you don't really need his income and that his job was expendable anyway and he didn't stay on track with his career, then falling behind makes it all that much more difficult to recover. Just some things to think about.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 30, 2012 7:46:31 GMT -5
Have you thought of a duplex as your rental property? Then you could live in half, sell your home, and pocket the cash for another rental.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2012 7:50:31 GMT -5
Does the SO have ANY interest in really taking care of another property, fixing it, dealing with tenants and all that? THAT is the real Q in my opinion. I have thought of doing rentals as well but my spouse just doesnt' really want to deal with that sort of thing. So, if i went forth with that it would be with the realization that it would be on my shoulders and that is fine. But, to not realize this and just assume the SO is on board may create way more stress in the OP's life. And, i think the more immediate future of SO's employment status seems more pressing.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 30, 2012 9:53:13 GMT -5
I guess you need to sit down and ask him how does he see retirement? When you get his thoughts, you can better plan what steps you need to do.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Mar 30, 2012 13:20:52 GMT -5
Sorry about delayed responses, had to work late yesterday and pretty much went straight to bed when I got home after we had a discussion. 1. As far as the teacher thing goes, when I asked him why he chose HE stated it would be nice to get the summers off. That was HIS first response (not - I think I'd be good teaching kids math, which he is, or I want to be able to contribute to society in a good way) which made me question his motivation (that coupled with that fact that he's admitted that additional training is not his thing). He did look into it and in order to get a teaching license in IL (where we live) he would have to have a masters - even with his current degree he would need at least 30 credits at about 700 bucks a credit (not counting fees or books). We figured it would be between 26-28K all in, and that is only if he went for a general ed license (which are about a dime a dozen in our area). The average starting salary of a teacher in IL is 38K and it would take him about 15 - 18 years to equal what he was making about 4 years ago. 2. I don't care if he makes a lot of money, the extra he brings home is used to increase the family's financial security and provide a backup for health insurance. The last time this happened he took a 30% pay cut and I didn't care because the new job got him closer to home (our daughter) which was a win-win for everyone. He could take a pay cut again this time, I don't care. The fact is that if he does not have a job we'd be fine. 3. I've had discussions with him about retirement and he knows it is not likely that I will be able to work until 70 or even 65. He always to appears to be on board and agrees with what we discuss but somehow I'm the one who is supposed to figure out how to make it happen. 4. We had a talk last night (I was VERY calm) and discussed openly what my concerns were (backup health insurance, building up emergency reserves, creating alternative cash flows etc.). I told him I am very aware that's it is not his fault, but my biggest concern was that he waited to take action until his position was eliminated. He acknowledged that he was in denial and had trusted promises his boss (mid level management) had made. We went over what he does and does not like about his job and I made sure he was clear that the salary level did not matter (within reason) that the most important thing was benefits and being close to our daughter. To put things in context - about 8 years ago he was making around 86k with bonus. Now he's clear that jobs that pay 50k are fine as long as it has benefits and is close to our daughter. We are in a very HCOL area, it is NOT about the money! 5. I have to admit I was surprised when several advised here that 4 job losses in around 12 years is not that bad. Among our friends/family only two people have lost jobs in that time and it was only once so I thought our situation was very unusual. That feedback did help put things in a better perspective. So a question for those who have weathered multiple job losses - how did you handle it financially?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 30, 2012 13:25:58 GMT -5
It sounds from posts that people weathered it the same way you are. That there seems to be always one partner with a Steady job and benefits so that the other can have some time to look without it being a panic situation. The one home usually busts butt, though, to keep the place clean and dinner on table as well as looking for another job. It's when those things don't happen that it gets sticky. I have a very hi earning friend who has a new job about once a year almost because his job keeps getting eliminated. The plus side is that his resume is always out there and he is always looking before the ax falls. His wife works part-time and could go to full-time if needed for insurance reasons.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 30, 2012 13:26:52 GMT -5
We figured it would be between 26-28K all in, and that is only if he went for a general ed license (which are about a dime a dozen in our area). The average starting salary of a teacher in IL is 38K and it would take him about 15 - 18 years to equal what he was making about 4 years ago.
Here's where I start to sound like a bitch:
Screw that.
Seriously, that kind of debt for that kind of salary - mind you, since you can cover your bills on your salary I suppose you could pay it back in the first year but it sounds like a lousy return to me anyway. If you guys were in your early 20s and just starting out, sure, but 15-18 years to get back up to a previous salary? With that kind of upfront cost? Um, no.
I might be willing to go along with it if and ONLY if DH saved at least $10k of that upfront with no help from me. That would show me he was serious about it as a genuine career goal and was willing to delay gratification. The quicker he saved the $10k, the more serious I would believe he was.
I told him I am very aware that's it is not his fault, but my biggest concern was that he waited to take action until his position was eliminated. He acknowledged that he was in denial and had trusted promises his boss (mid level management) had made.
One of the things I respect most about my DH is that he is always willing to acknowledge when he let a situation go on too long because he didn't want to face up to it for whatever reason. It sounds like your DH can do that too, which is a hopeful sign. Knowing that you have a tendency to bury your head when things like this happen is the first step to being more proactive in future.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2012 13:29:51 GMT -5
"Now he's clear that jobs that pay 50k are fine as long as it has benefits and is close to our daughter. We are in a very HCOL area, it is NOT about the money!"
Read that one again. I know i'm not in a HCOLA... and so maybe i'm way off base, but given that near half the country LIVES on 50k or less... well, to me the idea that the second income... must be 50K +, must carry benefits and must be close to daughter... doesn't sound like you are making a lot of concessions there...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2012 13:30:00 GMT -5
A job is a job. And, i wouldn't care if my spouse was pumping gas or doing brain surgery. The point is the contribution and effort toward the family.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 30, 2012 13:32:15 GMT -5
Good first talk. I'm assuming since your child is 9, you aren't extremely old and therefore retirement isn't looming around the corner. Don't sweat that now. Bad YM advice, I know. Keep doing what you are doing and when he gets a job, put everything he makes except for whatever his allowance is or however you do that, into a retirement fund of some sort. That will make you feel more secure. After DD goes to college, you can start buying rentals or whatever you need to make you feel secure and even downsize your own home. Watch that show on HGTV, INCOME PROPERTY. Although I do not have rentals that appeal to high end renters like this show seems to push for, they do the job nicely.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 30, 2012 13:32:22 GMT -5
Your DH should meet with a career counseler. They can help him figure out how he might improve himself and also help him figure out how to pick a job more suitable for him.
When DH kept losing jobs we had to face that part of it was him and what HE could do better. We also looked at the types of jobs he's had and which ones he keeps losing.
Mainly he was losing retail jobs, but he had a consistent history in quality assurance. So we put out applications focused on his QA experience. I found the job he currently has because it came up as a "job option" for ME after I signed up for Careerbuilder.com notices.
It fit DH's experience to a T and he was hired pretty much on the spot. He doesn't exactly LOVE his job but he is a lot happier than he was in retail and it certainly pays better.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 30, 2012 13:34:28 GMT -5
Absolutely no money outgoing for any degrees or certifications.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 30, 2012 13:35:10 GMT -5
Read that one again. I know i'm not in a HCOLA... and so maybe i'm way off base, but given that near half the country LIVES on 50k or less... well, to me the idea that the second income... must be 50K +, must carry benefits and must be close to daughter... doesn't sound like you are making a lot of concessions there...
Um, did you miss this part?
I think when she said 50k jobs were "fine" it was in the context of them deciding that was an acceptable income level to be aiming for since their family was doing fine and didn't need him to maintain a higher salary than that.
But if the issue is that he keeps taking lower-paying jobs that he thinks he would like better without consulting her and assuming that they'll be just fine because she makes good money (meanwhile blowing off certifications that could make him more money in his current profession and at the same time saying he wants to go back to school)... well, I'd have issues with that too if I'm honest. It sounds like the main issue is making this a FAMILY goal, not a "DH" goal.
And 50k is nothing special in a HCOLA, it has to be said. Sure, you can get by on less but it's definitely not a ton of money.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Mar 30, 2012 13:40:00 GMT -5
"Now he's clear that jobs that pay 50k are fine as long as it has benefits and is close to our daughter. We are in a very HCOL area, it is NOT about the money!" Read that one again. I know i'm not in a HCOLA... and so maybe i'm way off base, but given that near half the country LIVES on 50k or less... well, to me the idea that the second income... must be 50K +, must carry benefits and must be close to daughter... doesn't sound like you are making a lot of concessions there... Probably didn't word that well. I meant is as an example since he originally was not going to apply for a job that paid 50k because he didn't think it was enough. But, also, with a BS and 20+ years of experience he should be able to pull in a decent wage. Two relevant examples - We're hiring for a position which required only 2- 4 years of experience at the range is 60 - 80k. We recently hired an admin with around 10 years of experience who is making around 44k. (Not that I'm suggesting he go for an admin job but if he was comfortable with it then fine by me).
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share88
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Post by share88 on Mar 30, 2012 13:41:11 GMT -5
it So a question for those who have weathered multiple job losses - how did you handle it financially? I haven't lost any myself, but I do work with people who have been thru way more than 4, and yes they are in IT. Most relied on a working spouse and unemployment, a few lost homes and moved in with family. A lot did contract work until they could get back on their feet - maybe that's an option? It keeps $ coming in and some offer benefits. Not sure how good they are.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 30, 2012 13:42:45 GMT -5
I don't think your requests and expectations are unreasonable. You have shown a huge amount of patience. Most adults don't get to coast because they need to pay bills. The lucky ones get to at times. He may just need to regroup and think out what he can be reasonably happy in, in the here and now. Without money out the door or going to school unless his new employer is paying for it. I like the career counselor idea.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2012 13:50:36 GMT -5
I have found that my children are much more demanding ages 9-13 (till 16-17 I'm guessing) ... than they were when they were smaller... they have interests, they have events etc. I found it easier to work when they were younger, and plan on doing it again when they are older... but the idea that kids don't need as much time as they grow has actually proven the opposite for me... I understand 50K is 'nothing special' ... but half the country still lives on that or less ... (and he skipped ONE cert... 10 years ago...) ... sigh...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2012 13:52:23 GMT -5
He's the primary care giver... he has been employed... she has yet to give us exactly how much time he has spent unemployed... he has consistently brought home benefits and more than 50K a year...
In fact i do think there is a gender bias... if this was the woman, we would not be completely ignoring that the OP has said that her husband is the one who takes care of childcare duties in their house...
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 30, 2012 13:54:30 GMT -5
I understand 50K is 'nothing special' ... but half the country still lives on that or less ... (and he skipped ONE cert... 10 years ago...) ... sigh...
I know it's my own analogy but I do think it's apt. If your partner wanted a Jacuzzi and you guys purchased one but then he never used it, how seriously would you take him ten years later when he said he wanted a pool?
I'm not saying I would NEVER do it, but an $800 certification is nothing compared to a $20-30k commitment and before I signed on for the latter, I would want some good assurance that he wouldn't simply blow it off if he decided it wasn't for him anymore, leaving us on the hook for thousands of wasted dollars.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2012 13:55:44 GMT -5
I guess i didn't realize $50K was a low paying job? But, how about taking a step back and saying "gee, we are fortunate enough that we can still pay all our bills, have a roof over our head, etc"? NOT giving the SO a pass but merely saying that he may not be what you WISH he was. He is what he is.
I only say that to be helpful. I tried for YEARS to make my spouse be what he wasn't. I am the more ambitious and adventurous one. I am the one who isn't afraid to grab a business opportunity, roll up my sleeves, etc. That is who i am but not who he is. Once i accepted that we both offer different ways to approach life, we are both happier.
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