The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Mar 29, 2012 12:27:00 GMT -5
I do appreciate the comments all and want to respond to some of the general questions. 1. I've never been without a job since I was 15. Neither was my father or his father. Every time I've been in a position to have some knowledge my job may not be secure (three times now), I've found other employment rather than risk being unemployed. The thought of reacting to this type of situation rather than planning for it is very opposite to my character. Yes, I know he is different in his thought process but if I didn't have a plan we would've been in big trouble the first three times. Not so much now that we have EF, etc. I feel intense pressure when forced to be the one who always has to have a plan and figure out how we will make things work. We've talked about this (and the fact that WE are supposed to be a team and come up solutions together) but his reaction is always "We will be fine on what you make". 2. As far as defending him on the board, I have been very strong in stating he does a great job as a primary caregiver. It's the whole lack of concern or focus on having a strong job which concerns me. We have life insurance BUT I have health issues which may prevent me from working full time when I get older. I can't plan/save for, or cover, that on only one income. That is another reason we both have to have jobs because in this economy you never know if your job is stable. For all I know my job could be gone tomorrow and we have to have health coverage. 3. At the risk of sounding like a real B!tch, I'm not really into ensuring he is happy and fulfilled when we have a family to support and retirement to fund. Two of our mutual friends went through the whole "I'm not full filled with my job and need to find myself" thing and she finally ended up divorcing him when he decided the only way he could be happy was working as a clerk in a music shop. She ended up on the hook for alimony for 5 years to allow him to get back on his feet (didn't happen). At the time DH said the guy was a train wreck and needed to get it together. Now mind you DH is not at the level of this guy (and I'm not really comparing them) but I do expect him to contribute to the overall financial security of the family. Given some comments he has made in the past I know he would be quite content to become a SAHD but I'm not comfortable with being the only breadwinner in the family. 4. BINGO - I've been listening and you all have helped crystallize what my main need is. It's not a big salary, but a contribution to financial security (esp health insurance) is what would help me sleep at night (no kidding - last time this happened no EF and I would stay awake at night wondering how we were going to get through things). Job security would be very nice. 5. And finally, before we were married, I made it very clear to him that I was a b!tch who had high expectations so none of this should be a shocker to him!
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Mar 29, 2012 12:37:35 GMT -5
And final comment for lunch hour, I'm not still bitching about the course. Zib and Firebird articualted better than I did my use of that as an example that DH is not inclined to additional training. After the certification course he stated he didn't think he could stand any more school so we dropped it. His parents bring it up every time we get together with them (they can't stand that I have a higher degree then he does *shrug* and yes, I do defend OUR family choices to them). I'm not bashing him on this (he''s agreed with me on this point before) but going back to school will take a huge committment that I can't see him putting in when he has me as a safety net.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 29, 2012 12:40:44 GMT -5
If he really wants to be a teacher why not teach IT? I'd assume a large amount of what he took for that degree would transfer and if not he could probably test out of a lot of classes.
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Mar 29, 2012 12:51:48 GMT -5
Hi "thecaptain",
I've read through most of the posts and I would say that you and I have some similar personality traits. I am a planner and I get very anxious over financial situations, to the point that I too lose sleep from the stress. I crave financial stability, which is difficult to come by when your DH has a very erratic income and you never know whats coming in and when. My DH is a bit like your DH is some ways. He does own his own business and he's more of a fly by the seat of his pants kinda guy. He's not a long term planner at all. I carry the burden of making sure that all the bills are paid, that retirement and non-retirement accounts are funded and deal with all of the family finances (which by the way is fine with him).
We went through a very difficult period, when DH's business was not doing well. I was beside myself with stress and worry. DH and I had many arguments and I felt that he was not doing enough to get the business going again. He felt like I was overreacting and that everything would work itself out. I admit that I said some really crappy things to him and made him feel really bad about himself. I guess I was so frustrated, because I never "saw" him sweat the situation. It seemed to me that everything was just fine with him and when he got around to it, he would start contributing to the household finances (side note, my income is not enough to cover all of our expenses, close but not enough, so things were very tight). I have come to find out that, that's not the way he thought at all. He's just one of those super calm guys, even when faced with extremely difficult circumstances (which is a great trait when everyone else is freaking out and DH can remain calm and think clearly).
Anyway, I guess my point is that DH and I have very different styles and ways of dealing with things. I have learned to appreciate his strengths. We do compliment each other and we have learned to work as a team, even though we don't always agree on goals or the way to get there. I do know that my nagging, screaming and yelling probably didn't help our marriage during that difficult time; there was a lot of tension and resentment in the house. I do now know, that he did hear what I was saying and he did care, he just wasn't sure how he was going to fix the situation. I know he was also disappointed and angry with himself. I have learned to give my DH a little more credit. With both approach things very differently and I've learned that my way isn't the only way. As it turns out, his business has really turned around and he's working like a dog...not enough time in the day to take on all the jobs that are now coming in. I had always worried that when he finally got work, he would not be motivated to get it done in a timely manner, but I was proven wrong. Now DH is talking more and more about finances and future plans (nothing super long term, like retirement, but hey he's a work in progress).
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Mar 29, 2012 12:52:04 GMT -5
thecaptain: Yay for figuring out what it is you want! So, maybe DH can look for jobs in the public or health sector (both tend to be very stable, have good benefits and need IT workers). And it might actually be best that he's not in one of the "hot" fields. You never know when they will go from hot to freezing. He's apparently in an area of IT that is not hot and yet still needs workers. That seems pretty stable to me.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 29, 2012 12:54:37 GMT -5
Are we sure that SO = male? Or is that just what we assume? OP hasn't specified either gender (ETA: later did clarify). It doesn't matter. I think you get better and more objective responses sometimes when people DON'T know the genders of the people involved. I don't think it matters because most people make an assumption anyway, so specify or don't specify & you will still get skewed opinions from a few. Personally, it doesn't matter to me because what matters is that one partner doesn't feel another is contributing equally to the marriage. Then you have to look at why someone feels they are carrying an unequal amount of weight - are they really or is it just the perception that they are. Then you have to look at why the other partner isn't doing their share - maybe they feel like they are doing their share or maybe they just have different goals & ambitions & are acting accordingly. It seems part of the problem is the OP has ambitions & has chosen to make sacrifices that the spouse is unwilling to make & that is upsetting. Best you can do is talk about it & decide if you can live with the outcome. Otherwise the situation gets worse because there is nothing worse than having a spouse that keeps rubbing your face in the fact they don't think you are good enough & they think you should be doing X & Y instead of Z. Then the marriage becomes really miserable.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 29, 2012 13:11:54 GMT -5
3. At the risk of sounding like a real B!tch, I'm not really into ensuring he is happy and fulfilled when we have a family to support and retirement to fund.
thecaptain, if it makes you feel better I get 100% where you're coming from and I don't think it makes you a bitch. I think it makes you a good mother, frankly. DH and I are not thrilled with our current professions but we completely agree that our first obligation is to one another and to our family. Which means we don't always need to be 100% happy at our jobs. We just need to buckle down and do what needs to be done.
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Mar 29, 2012 13:14:16 GMT -5
[quote
It seems part of the problem is the OP has ambitions & has chosen to make sacrifices that the spouse is unwilling to make & that is upsetting. Best you can do is talk about it & decide if you can live with the outcome.
Otherwise the situation gets worse because there is nothing worse than having a spouse that keeps rubbing your face in the fact they don't think you are good enough & they think you should be doing X & Y instead of Z. Then the marriage becomes really miserable.[/quote]
EXACTLY. Couldn't have said it better myself. Sometimes I think that my DH has the right idea. He's willing to work hard and take on short-term jobs that he doesn't really want to do, but he's not willing to spend his life working in an environment where he is completely miserable...he'll find another way. I on the other hand have made many sacrifices to make sure I had financial stability. I'm starting to rethink some of that as I get older and realize that you only get one shot and you better make it count and spending years on end doing something that pays well but makes you miserable takes its toll eventually.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 29, 2012 13:14:51 GMT -5
Is there ANYONE who is 100% happy at their job?
I love what I do in general but there are days when I consider pitching the HPLC machine out the window.
My criteria nowadays is I want more good days than bad days. I don't want to work at a job where it takes a massive effort just for me to get out of bed in the morning.
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Mar 29, 2012 13:15:10 GMT -5
Crap, for some reason I can never get those quotes to work out right
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telephus44
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Post by telephus44 on Mar 29, 2012 13:37:29 GMT -5
I think tryingtofindbalance has the right idea of playing to each other's strengths. OP's strength is obviously in financial stability, holding down a job constantly no matter what and making sure that her family and retirement are taken care of. Her husband obviously doesn't have the same strenghts, but you need to figure out what his strenghts are and how to make them work best for the team effort.
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Post by stl76 on Mar 29, 2012 13:58:33 GMT -5
"I feel intense pressure when forced to be the one who always has to have a plan and figure out how we will make things work. We've talked about this (and the fact that WE are supposed to be a team and come up solutions together) but his reaction is always "We will be fine on what you make"."
I completely sympathize with you. It is not about the amount he makes/would make but being solely responsible financially plus having to plan everything is very stressful.
"At the risk of sounding like a real B!tch, I'm not really into ensuring he is happy and fulfilled when we have a family to support and retirement to fund."
You don't sound like a bitch at all. Why does he get to be happy and fulfilled while you have to do the work to ensure he can do that? There are obviously people like that who don't mind it but it sounds like it is pretty clear that you are not willing to be the sole breadwinner, and nobody can blame you. If nothing else, why wouldn't he also work to the best of his potential so you guys can retire early, especially considering the health issue you mentioned?? I am very much like you, a planner and my DH is not. It gets very frustrating to hear "I am doing the best I can", which may be true but doesn't get the bills paid, take care of the insurance, etc.
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quotequeen
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Post by quotequeen on Mar 29, 2012 14:00:53 GMT -5
Crap, for some reason I can never get those quotes to work out right You're missing the close bracket after the first quote. If you edit it to add the ] it will show up properly.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 29, 2012 14:02:55 GMT -5
Well, he hasn't lost it, yet, so there's time for him to start job hunting.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 29, 2012 14:03:20 GMT -5
Schools do hire people that can fix things and train people.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 29, 2012 14:04:38 GMT -5
You are correct that this merits a conversation - actually, a hundred conversations. And the DH should have been discussing this for a while, so there could be a mutual plan developed, not this type of panic. However, when your spouse counters any type of conversation with this attitude:
frankly, I'm not surprised the husband won't discuss the situation. My husband and I have a collective goal of both of us being at least a little happy. But clearly the OP's attitude is "F*** him, he doesn't deserve happiness."
The marriage is doomed.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 29, 2012 14:07:13 GMT -5
He deserves happiness, just not at his family's expense. OP isn't jumping for joy all the time, either, but feels she can't rely on her partner to depend on him stepping up to the plate. What about her happiness?
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Post by stl76 on Mar 29, 2012 14:07:51 GMT -5
"But clearly the OP's attitude is "F*** him, he doesn't deserve happiness.""
I don't think that is her attitude at all. I think her attitude is we have a family, we take care of our family, he doesn't get to put our family's financial future at risk just so he can enjoy himself. It is called being an adult, we all have to do things we don't like, that includes work a lot of times.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Mar 29, 2012 14:09:04 GMT -5
He deserves happiness, just not at his family's expense. OP isn't jumping for joy all the time, either, but feels she can't rely on her partner to depend on him stepping up to the plate. What about her happiness? I am losing my mind OR the world in coming to an end..... This is like the second time today I am agreeing with zib.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 29, 2012 14:16:12 GMT -5
But it doesn't sound like he would be putting them "at risk" at least not by what I consider to be at risk. It sounds like it might take longer for the OP to reach HER goals of being a landlord, retiring faster etc if he doesn't earn more money.
Does he share these goals or is he being pushed into them by the OP? Everyone has a right to their own goals but when you are married sometimes you have to find a middle area where you are both "comfortably uncomfortable".
DH wanted to have kids yesterday. I wanted to follow the YM approved plan. But I had to take into account DH is already 38, I am only 28. He really wasn't interested in waiting another 10 years until I had crossed all the things off my list.
So we met in the middle. We're not near where I would have liked to have been by now but we are still on track to getting there.
I can either resent the crap out of him and try to force him to get a higher paying job to make up for the shift in our timeline, which would probably lead to divorce. Or I can accept that we changed our timeline and move on.
There is a middle ground between the DH having a job he absoutely hates but makes the OP happy vs him being a teacher and making the OP unhappy.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 29, 2012 14:25:07 GMT -5
They need to come up with a plan together. It isn't about her or him, it is about them. And I don't see where either of these people seem to give a shit what the other one wants. If the husband was here posting, I would put the task on him to start the conversation from a positive perspective, but the husband isn't here. So, I'm telling the OP - if you want to keep your marriage, start the coversation with an open mind and a willingness to compromise. However, the OP has stated pretty clearly that she wants him to just go to work every day and suck it up, and a desire for something else has no place here.
So, sure, we can rally behind the OP and say that the husband is a piece of crap, and how dare he, blah, blah, blah. But it won't solve the problem. OP - if you want something to change, you need to change your attitude. We, collectively, can't will your husband into being a motivated, hard worker.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 14:40:05 GMT -5
Not to go off topic, but I read a T-shirt recently that said "Accountants Do It by the numbers".. Is that true?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 29, 2012 14:42:03 GMT -5
Nah, I'm the one that keeps score and DF owes me one. He's the accountant and I'm the freaky deaky ex school teacher.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 29, 2012 14:44:17 GMT -5
Sounds like she just wants him to have a job. But, no way would I fork over more money when he isn't working and then never finished his certification to begin with. That could be why he is always being let go along with his attitude. Hey, I hated working sometimes, too, but I had bills to pay and kids to feed so I did it. Pink says the same thing as do others. Why is it okay for someone to drop the ball because someone else will pick it up?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 29, 2012 14:50:10 GMT -5
She sounds tired and concerned that her health won't last. So what does he do if she quits? He knows she won't because she is the responsible one, the caregiver. That gets old.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 14:59:24 GMT -5
I wish my wife had a career. She has a job - a low 6 figure job - but it isn't a career. I think someday the music will stop and she won't have a chair or a clue what to do. On the other hand, I'm all about my career and advancement. I'm always moving forward.
I've just come to accept this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 15:15:05 GMT -5
Captain... Do you acknowledge that it does not take a new BS and an MS to get in to teaching ? (which generally is a field with good benefits and relatively stable.)
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Mar 29, 2012 15:21:23 GMT -5
"But clearly the OP's attitude is "F*** him, he doesn't deserve happiness."" I don't think that is her attitude at all. I think her attitude is we have a family, we take care of our family, he doesn't get to put our family's financial future at risk just so he can enjoy himself. It is called being an adult, we all have to do things we don't like, that includes work a lot of times. But, he isn't putting the family's future at risk. He just isn't helping them to get to the OP's goals faster. The problem seems to be that their goals for the future don't align. I can see why I wouldn't want to have a miserable job simply because my spouse has goal X for our family, especially if that goal isn't a priority for me.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 29, 2012 15:43:33 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 15:45:18 GMT -5
Has op said how long total husband has been out of work ?
And again, he isn't getting fired ...
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