zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 29, 2012 7:54:01 GMT -5
I also agree with PINK. If you have responsibilities, you work, whether you like it or not. If you have enough money coming in that you don't have to sweat the electric bill, you can work or not, your choice. I'd resent getting up and going to work while someone else slept in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 8:25:28 GMT -5
It's perfectly fine to vent... But one must also look realistically at expectations and motivations... This guy isn't getting fired every 6 months... He didn't wait on unemployment for 3 months ... Just didn't get his resume out until he was actually being let go... Not as proactive as op would like... But certainly not the complete failure some seem willing to suggest....
Personally, I also dont respond well to a partner who wants to parent me (particularly when I'm parenting the children...) ... Constantly complaining about how he does things and how he isnt motivated and shooting down ideas... He's probably out venting somewhere too...
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 29, 2012 8:29:23 GMT -5
Good for him. I hope he gets some comfort and some good advice as well. OP is getting both.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 29, 2012 8:31:17 GMT -5
I hated my job, too, and the last 3 years were hell, but when you have kids to support and bills to pay, you keep on doing it. If I had a spouse I could have quit as well and taken a break while I found myself. Reality is, most people have to work and don't have the option of finding themselves. That needs to be done early in life or when you have no other responsibilities but yourself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 8:32:45 GMT -5
I guess I missed the part where the guy is taking a break to find himself
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Post by stl76 on Mar 29, 2012 8:38:05 GMT -5
I don't think the issue is the size of the paycheck or the summers off if he becomes a teacher. It seems to me the issue is OP's spouse wanting to be a teacher just so he can have the summers off. What if he doesn't like being a teacher? Then what? Move on to the next career that gives him a chance to work less? He knew layoff was a big possibility but he chose to bury his head in the sand. If they both agreed to OP being the sole breadwinner even temporarily, that is one thing but she is clearly telling him that she is not okay with that. A lot of people work jobs they don't just LOVE and that is okay because that is life and we cannot all afford to be picky.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 8:43:31 GMT -5
Maybe the OP venting here will help her sort her thoughts out, so that when they do have a discussion, she'll be clear on exactly what's bothering her and she can articulate it well.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Mar 29, 2012 8:53:00 GMT -5
Maybe the OP venting here will help her sort her thoughts out, so that when they do have a discussion, she'll be clear on exactly what's bothering her and she can articulate it well. It took me a long time to be able to have a 'what are your goals' conversation with dh without being rude. Once I did, and I was able to tell him, that I really wished that his goal was to earn 6 figures, but that I understood that earning potential wasn't a driving force for him in deciding on a career. Since then dh has been acknowledging that there are ways for him to earn more money outside of his job, and at least making sure that the money we have goes as far as possible. We're nowhere close to where I'd like to be, but it was a start.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 29, 2012 8:55:31 GMT -5
Makes perfect sense. I know I come here to vent about stuff, people give me different thoughts, and then I proceed or not, but it always helps to have people who aren't friends or family members give you some thoughts.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2012 9:03:34 GMT -5
Maybe it's true and he just wants to have his summers off... I guess im questioning whether thatvia his prime motivation? And if it is among the reasons.., well, having the same schedule as kids is a consideration for primary care giver...
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resolution
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Post by resolution on Mar 29, 2012 9:04:15 GMT -5
It doesn't sound like he is doing anything to be laid off, his company was sold. It sounds more like he was in denial and just hoping that things would work out and he would keep his job with the new company. I can identify with that because I do tend to hope for the best about things I can't control until I am forced to deal with them. This situation is tricky because he may not feel any sense of urgency due to their stable finances, so I can see where the OP is in a bind.
If he does tend to go into denial about job changes, he may be better off in teaching where he can just do his job and try to stay out of the politics. However I agree he should find a program where he can start teaching right away using his bachelors degree and then look into further education later on. That would at least pinpoint if the appeal of teaching is the actual job or if it is more the fulfilling image of going back to school and starting over. Also he may be paid to take the master's classes. My sister is a teacher and she is paid a stipend to attend classes and workshops in the summer.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Mar 29, 2012 9:06:21 GMT -5
My thoughts may or may not have anything to do with the OP and her situation. I think that for certain personalities, bringing in sufficient income may not be a priority to an individual that has a partner that can support their lifestyle by him/herself. What I mean is, all my purchasing power, saving power, depends solely on me. I'm not particularly ambitious, but going without income for an extended period of time is not an option. If I had a partner that was willing to be the primary breadwinner while I went back to school or took a pay cut for a job/career I even halfway liked, I'd go for it. But because I'm all I have and I had children depending on me, I've sucked it up and did what I had to do. I couldn't just say "Oh well" if things didn't work out. Now that the children are young adults and my decisions will only affect me, I'm more open to taking risks. The key is that if I screw up, I'm the only one that has to deal with it. I don't have a spouse to consider and while I help my children, it's no longer my responsibility to take care of them. If thecaptain needs to vent about SO losing jobs, she probably would prefer not to be the sole breadwinner. That's a decision best made as a team, and it doesn't sound like that's what's happening so it needs to be sorted out. I agree with this sort of. I am the primary breadwinner, not by choice. It was not the plan when we were dating, engaged, or even in early marriage when I supported my DH going back to school to get his masters. The plan was that I would work part time and be the primary care giver and he would work the 9-5. In my city, my husband will never get a full time job. On a good year, three full time jobs in his field open up. And, yes, we could move. But, I didn't see the point to moving to a HCOLA-like Boston or CA, and trying to support a family of 4 or 5 on 40K per year. All I saw was us giving up our lifestyle for that. Neither of us were willing to do that. So, no matter how much I want to work part time and be the primary care giver, it isn't going to happen, simply because I don't have the power the change the job market in a city of 250K. We also take earning power into consideration. Because of my skill set, I will always be able to out earn my husband. My non-day job pays 30-40/hour. With a few more years of experience/inflation, I should be close to earning $50/hour. It would be foolish for me try to "make" my husband be interested in something that would command 6 figure salary. I don't even see how I could do it. We've leveraged our marriage so that we play to our strengths and minimize our weaknesses, even if it isn't what each of us personally prefers. (And, on a side note, my husband would readily admit that changing the bulk of the diapers for 8 years is not something he planned to do either. And, he really isn't trying to be "lazy" either, by not working a 40 hour week. He's not trying use me, or anything like that. ) I guess, we look at it more like this: The most important thing for us is our goals for our family. Not to say that the individual needs of both myself and my husband aren't important, but we decided when we had kids, that family needs/goals came first. It also might help, you OP, if you prioritized what, exactly you needed, in terms of a job from your husband. Do you value a paycheck more than job security or job security more than a paycheck. It's been in my limited experience that one does not usually get a huge paycheck with a secure job (one that he can work for 20-30 years.), particularly in IT. Personally, myself, I work in the public sector to make sure that I have job stability. Yes, it means that I won't have had a raise in 6 years now (and won't be surprised if I go 10 years without a raise.) BUT, as long as I'm not doing something stupid/illegal on the job, I don't have to worry about being laid off. Plus, my benefits are fairly decent. And, I work in a very flexible environment, so my family/work balance is pretty good. It also seems like from your posts, that your DH has always lacked motivation/initiative after you were married. Did this behavior ever show up before you married him? Or was it a sudden change after marriage? If it was a sudden change after marriage, I'd be more resentful of the "bait and switch" of personalities over anything else. If his lack of motivation has always been there, from when you were dating, it may be worth it to figure out why you thought that particular trait was acceptable then, but not now.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 29, 2012 9:06:26 GMT -5
He'd have to find an area with a huge need as there are a lot of certified teachers out there with no jobs. I wonder if he could teach at a trade school?
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telephus44
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Post by telephus44 on Mar 29, 2012 9:43:30 GMT -5
I agree that you need to figure out if you want him to have job security or earn big bucks. In our dynamic, DH makes the big bucks (a lot more than I do, and has a much higher earning potential) but my job is safer, so I provide the steady paycheck and health insurance. In the last 5 years, DH has had 5 different positions including some contract work and a period of unemployment. Sometimes I feel resentful that he gets to do all kinds of new things with his career - from a contract, to working at home, doing new and exciting projects at work, and able to take a new job just because it sounds fascinating or pays a boatload of money, while I'm "stuck" in the same job, providing the steady paycheck and benefits.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 29, 2012 9:55:17 GMT -5
DH has always been happy to coast. He will never be a career guy I knew this when we got married and at the time it seemed like it'd work since I am the more ambitious of the two of us.
However as time has gone on it makes more sense for me to do what telephus does and have the stable job. I have a good job with awesome benefits and flexibility. However with it comes rather low pay since I work in academia.
DH now has the chance to out earn me because he can apply for a supervisor position without having to go back to school. All he has to do is keep his nose clean.
However he says he is perfectly content to stay exactly where he is at. It frustrates me sometimes because I have to stay put because I carry the benefits. If he made more I could take the risk of jumping into private and increasing my income without having to add another 4-5 years of schooling into the mix.
I give him credit that he is at least thinking about it, that's more than he would have done years ago. And I accept that I didn't marry a man that is super career driven.
Dynamics have changed and we've changed. If the OP isn't happy she needs to address it but I wouldn't do it by putting him down and pointing out every little thing he's done wrong in the past several years job wise.
I bring it up with him by telling him things have changed and we need to reevaluate our current job roles. Then he doesn't feel like I am attacking him for not being uber ambitious and we actually make some progress.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Mar 29, 2012 10:10:45 GMT -5
Caveat: I am not trying to say everyone reacts to things the way I do, I'm just trying to give some insight into how I am interpreting this situation If I came on here to vent about something because I honestly just needed to vent, when people on the board then started "attacking" DH, I would then step up to defend him, because we honestly are on the same page. If I just need to vent it is because I know that my feelings (while being valid, because they are my feelings) are unfair to him and I just need to say them to get them off my chest and get over them. When I get upset because I feel like my wants and needs aren't being met, that's one thing, and we have to figure out what to do about that together. However, if I were to go home today and yell at DH for not pulling his weight, for not bringing in a paycheck, etc. he would, in fact, have every right to get upset with me. Why? Because we agreed to this plan (and because his mom died not quite 3 weeks ago, and you have to give people slack for that). We would be in better financial shape if he sat around the house and played video games all day, because trust me, his video games do not cost the $850/month we're paying for him to be back in school. But I would actually be much less happy about the situation if he weren't in school, so there we are.
I bring this up, because I am not seeing that same reaction from the OP. Instead of defending her DH, she's relieved that she's getting validation of her feelings. That is NOT wrong. But it tells me that she doesn't just need to vent. It tells me she and her DH do not have the same plan, and she wants to hear from us that her plan is the "better" of the two. And it very possibly is, but it doesn't actually matter. None of what we think matters in the long run (though hopefully thecaptain feels she is getting good advice she can use), only what they can work on together. In her last post, she said they were at the point where she felt they should be making non-retirement investments, perhaps investing in some rental property and becoming landlords. My DH has always wanted to invest in rental property- we didn't early on because it was a risk I wasn't comfortable taking. I wonder if her DH knows that is what she wants, and how he feels about that kind of risk? When he told her he'd been thinking about being a teacher, she shot him down. Has she told him she's thinking of becoming a landlord? (Though if you're both on the same page about this, maybe some courses in property management for him. Being a landlord isn't passive income, unless you hire a property manager.) Maybe, instead of paying for childcare, DH could become a SAHP or get a part time job that only has him working while the child is in school. Then money that is currently going to childcare could be moved over to invest in property for the next three years. These are just suggestions, and for goodness sake don't take them if they won't work for you.
But it seems to me that the purpose of this thread is not "just" to vent. It is to vent- get the really negative emotions cleared away before talking to DH. It is to receive validation- and yes, your feelings are valid (but so are his). And, most importantly, I hope the purpose is to figure out a way to talk to DH and try to get yourselves back on a path you can feel good about as a family- not your path, not his path, but one that can meet both of your needs and the needs of your child. I wish you the best of luck in your journey.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 29, 2012 11:32:46 GMT -5
Frankly, from your comments here, you might be just a little hard on SO. Life is too short to not follow your dreams.
I'm not saying the SO shouldn't go for it, necessarily, but that's an awfully big leap (IT to teaching) and if it were my DH, I would need to see a solid, well-thought-out plan for how to recoup the costs (that HE came up with, not me) before I could get behind a huge move like that.
DH and I are both struggling in our careers, but we're not just going to randomly jump to something we think we'd like better without a plan in place. When we were single, sure, but that's not something you do when you have responsibilities to other people.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 29, 2012 11:38:57 GMT -5
Are we sure that SO = male? Or is that just what we assume?
OP hasn't specified either gender (ETA: later did clarify). It doesn't matter. I think you get better and more objective responses sometimes when people DON'T know the genders of the people involved.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 29, 2012 11:41:19 GMT -5
I think the problem is the OP's DH didn't seem to go into the idea of teaching more than "I get summers off".
Honestly I'd probably get pissed at DH as well if that was his solution to the job problem and his reasoning behind it. If you are going to make a career change at least make it on more solid reasoning than that! I'm not going to be open to what sounds like a middle schooler's logic for picking a job.
DH in the past has come to me with all sorts of career changes and I "shot down" each one because it was all based on notions like the OP's DH. We joke that he wanted to become a "football playing king in space" like Squidward on Spongebob.
Recently he has considered becoming a USDA agent. This time around he's actually done quite a bit of research and it is a career move that would not require a total remake of his skills, the job he currently does is suited perfectly for it and counts experience wise.
I can get behind it because it is a well thought out plan and he has sound reasoning for considering it.
Downside is that he would have to work on the kill floor for two years. I can certainly understand why he is hesitant, not everyone can stand there and watch animals be killed day after day. While YM would probably disagree with me I do find it a reason why it might not be a good fit for everyone.
It would certainly be A LOT more money and that is tempting for both of us, but I am not going to push him into doing that just for the sake of money.
It's really rare to be able to get both money AND love what you do AND job security. I think the OP is going ot have to pick which hills she wants to die on and work something out with DH.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Mar 29, 2012 11:43:44 GMT -5
Do happiness and fulfillment enter this equation at all?
If you want to do the math, you can say that a little more effort and, of course, staying in IT will be more profitable. But in reality, you have left out a bunch of variables. The biggest one being the desire to get up and go to work, and how if someone hates their job, their performance will suffer, and likely they will always be the first one laid off, and the last one to get hired somewhere else. So, if you create the financial analysis and take into account long periods of unemployement and even longer periods of disinterest and unhappiness, IT might be a very expensive choice for your guy.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Mar 29, 2012 11:53:24 GMT -5
Are we sure that SO = male? Or is that just what we assume? OP hasn't specified either gender (ETA: later did clarify). It doesn't matter. I think you get better and more objective responses sometimes when people DON'T know the genders of the people involved.
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luckyme
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Post by luckyme on Mar 29, 2012 11:57:48 GMT -5
" But it seems to me that the purpose of this thread is not "just" to vent. It is to vent- get the really negative emotions cleared away before talking to DH. It is to receive validation. "
Yeah, have to agree with this. What better place to come and be validated then a board where most are equally career/money driven, and quick to condemn those who aren't.
You're still b!tiching about a course he didn't finish 10 years ago!
Does he really want summers off, or is that your interpretation?
You're blaming him for not picking the "right" career field.
You need to sit down and really think about what "you" really want in life. Will you be a happier person if you divorced? From your OP, it seems to me that is how you are leaning.
I'm not one bit sympathetic to your venting, but to be honest, it might be due to all that gender neutral stuff (didn't that die out years ago?).
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 29, 2012 12:02:00 GMT -5
You're still b!tiching about a course he didn't finish 10 years ago! Maybe because him not finishing that certificate has a direct impact on his situation today? You need to sit down and really think about what "you" really want in life. Will you be a happier person if you divorced? From your OP, it seems to me that is how you are leaning. I don't think any of us know enough to make that kind of judgment. Career strain can be very, very tough on a marriage and it doesn't necessarily mean that you want to jump ship. You're still b!tiching about a course he didn't finish 10 years ago! Maybe because him not finishing that certificate has a direct impact on his situation today? You need to sit down and really think about what "you" really want in life. Will you be a happier person if you divorced? From your OP, it seems to me that is how you are leaning. I don't think any of us know enough to make that kind of judgment. Career strain can be very, very tough on a marriage and it doesn't necessarily mean that you want to jump ship. Just that something needs to change.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 29, 2012 12:03:46 GMT -5
I'm not one bit sympathetic to your venting, but to be honest, it might be due to all that gender neutral stuff (didn't that die out years ago?).
Again: what difference does it make? It really says something that we would give TOTALLY different advice to a man in this situation than we would to thecaptain.
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luckyme
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Post by luckyme on Mar 29, 2012 12:05:40 GMT -5
I will also add, I am not career driven, never had one. Have not worked full time since our oldest child died in infancy. DH is primary breadwinner. We are pretty traditional. I stay home, he works, I support him in that.
He can move up and make significant money, but doesn't want to deal with the BS that would require. I am perfectly OK w/ that.
We live very simply, and we have a great marriage, and 3 great kids, and I love and cherish him with all my heart. I believe he feels the same.
The few times when I have worked semi FT (30-40 hrs a week), I absolutely hate the life we live. We have more money, but far less quality. We prefer the quality over the money, but neither of us is materialistic and are quite happy doing without.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 29, 2012 12:06:52 GMT -5
You're still b!tiching about a course he didn't finish 10 years ago!
I'd be mad too $800 is a lot to pay for a course and have someone not finish.
DH dropped out of getting his bachelor's after one semester, but took out loans. We are still paying it off.
I think I have a right to be peeved that I am saddled with a loan payment for something that was never completed. I wouldn't have agreed to it if I had known he wouldn't even finish the year out.
It also makes me hesitant to invest in any more schooling for him or training that we'd have to pay for out of pocket.
I bet the OP feels the same way. You can't break someone's trust like that and then expect them to be gung ho right out the gate when they decide they want to go back to school AGAIN.
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luckyme
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Post by luckyme on Mar 29, 2012 12:14:19 GMT -5
"You're still b!tiching about a course he didn't finish 10 years ago!
"Maybe because him not finishing that certificate has a direct impact on his situation today? "
You could say that about anything that happened in the past. It's never healthy to dwell in the past. I would think if he hasn't done so in the past decade is for more telling than something stupid 10 yrs ago.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 29, 2012 12:17:21 GMT -5
The few times when I have worked semi FT (30-40 hrs a week), I absolutely hate the life we live. We have more money, but far less quality. We prefer the quality over the money, but neither of us is materialistic and are quite happy doing without.
So you could say that you're coming at this from the perspective of the non-working spouse. Which is good because getting other perspectives is always valuable. But what worked for you guys doesn't necessarily work for thecaptain, and if that's the case then he doesn't "automatically" get his way just because he doesn't like his job. They need to find a middle ground.
DH and I are toying with the idea of him being a SAHD one day, but we're honest with each other about the fact that neither of us is sure we could handle him not working at all. It's far, far more likely that he'll end up SAH than that I will but we'll see how it goes. If I don't like my job enough, or I don't feel secure enough without his income, or not working is making him feel bad about himself, or for any other reason it's not working out, he'd go back to work.
But when you're in a partnership, you don't just get to change the rules one day because you don't like your job.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Mar 29, 2012 12:20:03 GMT -5
You could say that about anything that happened in the past. It's never healthy to dwell in the past. I would think if he hasn't done so in the past decade is for more telling than something stupid 10 yrs ago.
There's a difference between dwelling on the past and pointing out, when someone says he wants to do something that requires returning to school, that the last time he did that he didn't finish (when it was a certification course and a considerably smaller investment of time and money than a full bachelor's degree).
Imagine if your SO decided that he really wanted a hot tub in the backyard, and you guys managed to make it happen financially, but then he never used it. Then ten years later, he wanted to put in a pool. Wouldn't your reaction be something like, "Hey, we put in a hot tub and you never use it, why should I help pay for a pool that you'll probably never use either?"
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 29, 2012 12:24:21 GMT -5
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