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Post by magichat on Jul 27, 2011 15:31:55 GMT -5
I would bet with the limited contingent left in iraq that very few military are housed in tents at this point. ...ooh, ooh... how much you wanna bet? ;D Please do tell if you have a source of information.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 27, 2011 15:37:24 GMT -5
...they're in tents.... some in connexes... and some sleep in their tanks, as previously mentioned... ...as troops break down facilities in prep for exiting theater, there will be fewer and fewer connexes and tents... ...for example, how fast, and in what order, do you break down your campsite amenities when vacation is over?
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Post by magichat on Jul 27, 2011 15:38:08 GMT -5
So anecdotal evidence is still anecdotal, got it!
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 27, 2011 15:40:36 GMT -5
...lol... go google any image from just about any news outlet... there is plenty of photographic evidence of our soldiers being housed as I've described...
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 27, 2011 15:42:59 GMT -5
...having said that, I should add that my brother, who just fininshed his third tour in IQ, has slept in his watercraft, too... so I suppose the list can get long... ...but he's no general... so I don't know of stories of how they sleep...
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Post by magichat on Jul 27, 2011 15:43:19 GMT -5
Yet you still fail to produce any actual up to date evidence, how odd.
So tell me, are those tents air conditioned?
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 27, 2011 15:46:04 GMT -5
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Post by magichat on Jul 27, 2011 15:49:36 GMT -5
Check out the first photo, guess what they beige colord thing is next to the ten. Still no date stamp that I could discern on those photos. But again, should we compare apples to oranges? Air conditioned tents of the troops compared to unairconditioned tents for the prisoners?
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 27, 2011 15:51:32 GMT -5
...it's AC... that part wasn't in dispute... and I'm not sure why the tents issue was, too...
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 27, 2011 15:52:13 GMT -5
>>> But again, should we compare apples to oranges? Air conditioned tents of the troops compared to unairconditioned tents for the prisoners? <<< ...I didn't make that comparison...
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Post by magichat on Jul 27, 2011 15:54:12 GMT -5
>>> But again, should we compare apples to oranges? Air conditioned tents of the troops compared to unairconditioned tents for the prisoners? <<< ...I didn't make that comparison... That is true.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 27, 2011 16:34:37 GMT -5
American troops also have to survive live fire, anti-aircraft attacks and grenades. Shall we introduce that next? ...to what?
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 27, 2011 16:45:24 GMT -5
Temperature differential would be the same, you are correct. But BTDT was trying to calculate the increase in temperature as a % & then use that as the % increase in discomfort. All of those scales would find a different % increase in temperature, which was my point. A 5% increase in temperature is arbitrary & depends on the scale used & has absolutely no bearing on the increase in discomfort. ...I was just trying to point out that the temperatures inside the tents are still relative to the outside temperatures... it's hot in Arizona... dang hot... Africa hot... and I still would rather sit in the shade of the tent rather than be sunburned to death in a couple days... Yes temperature inside an unairconditioned tent would be relative to the outside temperature. I don't see how that means we should subject prisoners to 145 degree temperatures when there are other alternatives.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 27, 2011 16:46:32 GMT -5
Why to Arizona's penal system. That is what this thread is about. The good Sheriff thinks that petty thieves, drunk drivers whatever, can be starved or baked, even to the point of hospitalization based on the sufferings and sacrifices we demand of our troops, so logically we should be able to set up live fire and have them dash through it as well. ...are you seriously proposing this, or just posting some theatrical flair?
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 27, 2011 16:48:26 GMT -5
>>> Yes temperature inside an unairconditioned tent would be relative to the outside temperature. I don't see how that means we should subject prisoners to 145 degree temperatures when there are other alternatives. <<< ...okay, then how are they relative? 5% hotter? 10% hotter? what? ...and what would be an available alternative at the same cost?
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Jul 27, 2011 16:54:38 GMT -5
In my experience, it's cooler in the shade than in open sunlight.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 27, 2011 16:55:10 GMT -5
>>> I'm just drawing the obvious conclusion. <<< ...I would disagree that you're drawing an obvious conclusion... they are two discussions... ...this county has determined that their tent-style penitentiary is appropriate... you disagree... okay...
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Post by Angel! on Jul 27, 2011 16:58:27 GMT -5
>>> Yes temperature inside an unairconditioned tent would be relative to the outside temperature. I don't see how that means we should subject prisoners to 145 degree temperatures when there are other alternatives. <<< ...okay, then how are they relative? 5% hotter? 10% hotter? what? ...and what would be an available alternative at the same cost? Relative as in related or as in there is a correlation between tent temperature & outdoor temperature - it isn't going to be 145 degrees in the tent if it is 55 degrees outside. You can't put a % on that because it would depend on too many variables & as I have said before using percentages on temperatures is useless because 0 degrees farenheit is arbitrary. Sheriff Joe saved 69.9 million dollars by building the tent city vs. a new jail facility. Seems they could have spent a little more & made it a little more comfortable. Or maybe he should keep his guards a little more under control & they wouldn't have had to pay out $43 million in settlements - that certainly could have air conditioned the tents.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 27, 2011 17:02:00 GMT -5
In my experience, it's cooler in the shade than in open sunlight. In general. But if there is no outside airflow & you are packed into bunkbeds with hundreds of your closest friends & you are all sweating up a storm, it is going to get hot pretty fast. Ever sat in a turned off van/bus on a really hot day when there is no breeze? Even with with windows open it will get much hotter in the vehicle than outside - it turns into a little oven.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 27, 2011 17:02:29 GMT -5
>>> Yes temperature inside an unairconditioned tent would be relative to the outside temperature. I don't see how that means we should subject prisoners to 145 degree temperatures when there are other alternatives. <<< ...okay, then how are they relative? 5% hotter? 10% hotter? what? ...and what would be an available alternative at the same cost? Relative as in related or as in there is a correlation between tent temperature & outdoor temperature - it isn't going to be 145 degrees in the tent if it is 55 degrees outside. You can't put a % on that because it would depend on too many variables & as I have said before using percentages on temperatures is useless because 0 degrees farenheit is arbitrary. Sheriff Joe saved 69.9 million dollars by building the tent city vs. a new jail facility. Seems they could have spent a little more & made it a little more comfortable. Or maybe he should keep his guards a little more under control & they wouldn't have had to pay out $43 million in settlements - that certainly could have air conditioned the tents. ...okay... so they could have built their tent city to be a little more comfortable... they could have built it to be less comfortable... they didn't... ...their guards need more training... or skills... or both... ...but the county accepts the status quo, correct?
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 27, 2011 17:10:43 GMT -5
Relative as in related or as in there is a correlation between tent temperature & outdoor temperature - it isn't going to be 145 degrees in the tent if it is 55 degrees outside. You can't put a % on that because it would depend on too many variables & as I have said before using percentages on temperatures is useless because 0 degrees farenheit is arbitrary. Sheriff Joe saved 69.9 million dollars by building the tent city vs. a new jail facility. Seems they could have spent a little more & made it a little more comfortable. Or maybe he should keep his guards a little more under control & they wouldn't have had to pay out $43 million in settlements - that certainly could have air conditioned the tents. ...okay... so they could have built their tent city to be a little more comfortable... they could have built it to be less comfortable... they didn't... ...their guards need more training... or skills... or both... ...but the county accepts the status quo, correct? It appears that over 50% of voters accept that as status quo. Does that make it acceptable to treat people as sub-human, because it is status quo? Perhaps we never should have ended slavery, after all, it was the status quo.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 27, 2011 17:22:07 GMT -5
>>> It appears that over 50% of voters accept that as status quo. Does that make it acceptable to treat people as sub-human, because it is status quo? Perhaps we never should have ended slavery, after all, it was the status quo. <<< ...now that would make a good thread... ...but, in this case, it doesn't make for a good comparison... slavery predated this particular tent city...
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safeharbor37
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Post by safeharbor37 on Jul 27, 2011 17:25:56 GMT -5
A van/bus is a greenhouse, not a tent, and tents aren't necessarily sealed tight, but many [most] allow a breeze.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 27, 2011 17:33:59 GMT -5
A van/bus is a greenhouse, not a tent, and tents aren't necessarily sealed tight, but many [most] allow a breeze. Ok, fine. Ever been in a tent on a hot, breezeless day? All the times I've gone camping you end up hot & sweaty if you stay in a tent much past sunrise. Fact is they measured the inside temperatures at 145 degrees & I've read even higher than that & it certainly wasn't 145 outside. All the antecdotal evidence about shady areas being cooler than being in the sun doesn't change what the actual data collected in these tents shows - that it gets hotter in the tents than outside.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 27, 2011 17:39:02 GMT -5
>>> It appears that over 50% of voters accept that as status quo. Does that make it acceptable to treat people as sub-human, because it is status quo? Perhaps we never should have ended slavery, after all, it was the status quo. <<< ...now that would make a good thread... ...but, in this case, it doesn't make for a good comparison... slavery predated this particular tent city... Slavery was merely an example to make a point - accepting things merely because they are the status quo isn't a good way to make decisions. If you find it acceptable to house people in 145 degree temperatures, then good for you. Personally I find it to be extremely inhumane & believe it should be unacceptable in our civilized society. Perhaps you are more in agreeance with the whole social darwinism theory - survival of the fittest & all that.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 27, 2011 18:39:19 GMT -5
I think it's absolutely hilarious. No bleeding heart has mentioned that Snopes, , , , that poster child of liberalism , , , has confirmed Sheriff Joe's entire approach to the stewardship of Maricopa County, Arizona taxpayer monies while executing his duties in law enforcement. www.snopes.com/politics/crime/arpaio.asp
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 27, 2011 18:43:53 GMT -5
>>> It appears that over 50% of voters accept that as status quo. Does that make it acceptable to treat people as sub-human, because it is status quo? Perhaps we never should have ended slavery, after all, it was the status quo. <<< ...now that would make a good thread... ...but, in this case, it doesn't make for a good comparison... slavery predated this particular tent city... Slavery was merely an example to make a point - accepting things merely because they are the status quo isn't a good way to make decisions. If you find it acceptable to house people in 145 degree temperatures, then good for you. Personally I find it to be extremely inhumane & believe it should be unacceptable in our civilized society. Perhaps you are more in agreeance with the whole social darwinism theory - survival of the fittest & all that. ...I don't quite understand the whole "social Darwinism theory" in the first place, so idk... but I don't really feel the need to complain about the Arizonians keeping their convicts in tents, either...
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on Jul 27, 2011 18:54:02 GMT -5
It's Darwinism applied to societies. If a society is strong, it should outlive the competition. Think of democracy vs communism.
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Post by BeenThere...DoneThat... on Jul 27, 2011 18:58:00 GMT -5
It's Darwinism applied to societies. If a society is strong, it should outlive the competition. Think of democracy vs communism. ...then why would people be considered "creepy" for thinking that?
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Mad Dawg Wiccan
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Post by Mad Dawg Wiccan on Jul 27, 2011 19:06:14 GMT -5
I don't know.
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