billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 14, 2011 21:24:28 GMT -5
<<Abolish Public Schools? >> this country has become truly sick and short sighted when we get to the point where we don't want to pay to send our neighbor's child to school I don't pay to send my neighbor's child to school, I pay to send my youthful fellow citizens to school.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 14, 2011 22:20:42 GMT -5
bills, you are dodging the subject. You said: People are free to choose. They are free to choose which school (or to homeschool) their own child . . . . I don't want to make it too hard for you, so for now let's have you concentrate on just the first part. This part: People are free to choose. They are free to choose which school Tell us in some detail how a parent has a choice of "which" school they can send their child to. I think there are millions of parents who would like to use your model.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 14, 2011 22:29:23 GMT -5
bills, you are dodging the subject. You said: People are free to choose. They are free to choose which school (or to homeschool) their own child . . . . I don't want to make it too hard for you, so for now let's have you concentrate on just the first part. This part: People are free to choose. They are free to choose which school Tell us in some detail how a parent has a choice of "which" school they can send their child to. I think there are millions of parents who would like to use your model. Reply #148
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 14, 2011 22:41:02 GMT -5
Not good enopugh bills. You are the one who is always the stickler for details. Give us as good as your always ask for. Give us the details as you would have them applied, please.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 14, 2011 22:43:17 GMT -5
Not good enopugh bills. You are the one who is always the stickler for details. Give us as good as your always ask for. Give us the details as you would have them applied, please. Okay. In the box that says student name, place the name of your child. In the box that says date of birth, place your child's date of birth. Need more?
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jeep108
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Post by jeep108 on Jul 14, 2011 22:44:19 GMT -5
I'm sure if this ever passes, AZ will be the first state. We always cut spending to schools first.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 14, 2011 23:04:00 GMT -5
On quotation marks, my Harcourt Brace, (Harbrace), has 6 an a half pages oo where to plac the quotation marks. It's too much for my weak little mind to wrap around, so I'm just gonna put up two examples and say, "It all depends on how the quotation marks are used. If they are indicating an add-on to a statement, they go in one place, and if they are indicting a statement is included within a statement, they go in another place, as shown here: John asked, "May I see you later?"
Was John asking, "May I see you later"? Beyond this example, it gets complicated, so I'll beg off and act like I know what I'm doing, but knowing all the while I will be called on by liberals about the minutia..
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 14, 2011 23:09:50 GMT -5
Need more?
Yes, I please.
There doesn't seem to be a box that says anything about what schools I get to choose from. Now what do I do? I want the best school in my district, and you said I could choose. I need to know how to do it. I'll wait for your guidance.
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jeep108
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Post by jeep108 on Jul 14, 2011 23:10:00 GMT -5
I live in a Republicain state, I would like to know how the libs are running my schools? And Republicains never have bad ideas, no everything they do is golden... LMAO.
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jeep108
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Post by jeep108 on Jul 14, 2011 23:19:53 GMT -5
Need more? Yes, I please. There doesn't seem to be a box that says anything about what schools I get to choose from. Now what do I do? I want the best school in my district, and you said I could choose. I need to know how to do it. I'll wait for your guidance. I know here in our state you can get a border exception to go to just about any school you want your child to go to. They also give vouchers for charter and private schools. It's up to the parent.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 14, 2011 23:40:54 GMT -5
Thanks, jeep. But bills is in the priocess of telling me how it can be done everywhere else. At least he didn't narrow anything down. He just said, "People are free to choose. They are free to choose which school". . . .
He's going to give me something I can use. That is I "think" he is. He seems to know all about it. He has my hopes up so high I'm in a tizzy with impatience to learn how to do it.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 15, 2011 0:00:16 GMT -5
Need more? Yes, I please. There doesn't seem to be a box that says anything about what schools I get to choose from. Now what do I do? I want the best school in my district, and you said I could choose. I need to know how to do it. I'll wait for your guidance. You are free to choose any school in the entire country. Do you wish for me to list every school in the country? I told you how to get into any specific school in the country. You walk in and fill out the paperwork. I can't explain it any more specifically than that unless you wish for me to give you directions on how to walk.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 15, 2011 0:24:51 GMT -5
No. bills, that won't be necessary. But you've elected a queasy liberal's way of admitting you told a au , , , , er, , ,ah , , a mis-statement.
I can't say it's true EVERYwhere, and apparently jeep is fortunate to live where there is an exception, but students at every school my children attended, and where my grandchildren attended all, that is, each and every one in Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, Illinois, California, Colorado and Hawaii, put the kids in the school of THEIR choice. Not my choice, and not the choice of my children. Not anybody's choice but that of the school system itself.
What you say is patently pie in the sky. It takes in no consideration for student load, teacher qualification or number, facility capacity, and certainly not demographics, all of which are part of how, in my experience, kids get assigned to any particular school. The LAST consideration, and the one I have NEVER seen accommodated is parental choice.
Want to try again?
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zipity
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Post by zipity on Jul 15, 2011 0:29:16 GMT -5
We always cut spending to schools first.
For conservatives, kids rights end when they are born whereas for dems that's where kids rights start. If you want to save a bit of money, live in a blue state when you have kids and a red state after the kids move out of the house.
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bimetalaupt
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Post by bimetalaupt on Jul 15, 2011 1:26:40 GMT -5
We always cut spending to schools first.For conservatives, kids rights end when they are born whereas for dems that's where kids rights start. If you want to save a bit of money, live in a blue state when you have kids and a red state after the kids move out of the house. Zipity, Like College and Hospital; the ISD have independent taxing authority. I have not seen a lot of cuts in spending for school in West Texas. That make your statement false. "We always cut spending to schools first".
We have new Science and Technology High School and a Medical High School just open two years ago here in Abilene,TX....Great jobs for teachers in West Texas esp Science and Mathematics.
Most of the ISD have growing budgets with oil prices of near 100 USD..How would cutting spending for the ISD effect the state or city governments.. They are Independent school Districts and the bank account belongs to the schools and teachers. You statement makes no since.Please think about it and return your thoughts with a grip on facts...
BTI
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 15, 2011 9:36:08 GMT -5
No. bills, that won't be necessary. But you've elected a queasy liberal's way of admitting you told a au , , , , er, , ,ah , , a mis-statement. I can't say it's true EVERYwhere, and apparently jeep is fortunate to live where there is an exception, but students at every school my children attended, and where my grandchildren attended all, that is, each and every one in Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, Illinois, California, Colorado and Hawaii, put the kids in the school of THEIR choice. Not my choice, and not the choice of my children. Not anybody's choice but that of the school system itself. What you say is patently pie in the sky. It takes in no consideration for student load, teacher qualification or number, facility capacity, and certainly not demographics, all of which are part of how, in my experience, kids get assigned to any particular school. The LAST consideration, and the one I have NEVER seen accommodated is parental choice. Want to try again? All of what you talked about are concerned with whether or not your child will be accepted to attend the school you choose. Just has you have every right to choose which school you wish your child to attend, all schools have the choice to not accept your chose. Freedom works both ways. As far as your personal situation, you misunderstood what was going on. The public school chose to match your children and grandchildren with a school in their district. You and your children chose to go along with that decision. You were always free to choose a different school or to home school.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 15, 2011 14:17:05 GMT -5
billos said: All of what you talked about are concerned with whether or not your child will be accepted to attend the school you choose. Just has you have every right to choose which school you wish your child to attend, all schools have the choice to not accept your chose. Freedom works both ways.
As far as your personal situation, you misunderstood what was going on. The public school chose to match your children and grandchildren with a school in their district. You and your children chose to go along with that decision. You were always free to choose a different school or to home school. For emphasis, I repeat: Freedom works both ways. And I reject any thought that "freedom" is available to a citizen when discussing government school policy. What we have here is typical liberal thrust , duck and weave to avoid admitting to an out and out misleading piece of bad advice.,
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 16, 2011 15:01:24 GMT -5
'Run like the mob': US school cheating scandal details emerge Investigators: Nearly half of Atlanta's schools allowed cheating to go unchecked ATLANTA — A new Georgia state report details the nation's largest-ever cheating scandal, concluding that half of Atlanta's schools allowed practices that inflated students' scores to go unchecked for as long as a decade. The report reveals that schools turned a blind eye to — or even condoned — teachers who erased wrong answers on test sheets or encouraged students to copy off one another. Administrators — pressured to maintain high scores under the federal No Child Left Behind law — punished or fired those who reported anything amiss and created a culture of "fear, intimidation and retaliation," according to the report released earlier this month, two years after officials noticed a suspicious spike in some scores. The report names 178 teachers and principals, and 82 of those confessed. Tens of thousands of children at the 44 schools, most in the city's poorest neighborhoods, were allowed to advance to higher grades, even though they didn't know basic concepts. One teacher told investigators the district was "run like the mob." "Everybody was in fear," another teacher said in the report. "It is not that the teachers are bad people and want to do it. It is that they are scared." For teachers and their bosses, the stakes were high: Schools that perform poorly and fail to meet certain benchmarks under the federal law can face sharp sanctions. They may be forced to offer extra tutoring, allow parents to transfer children to better schools, or fire teachers and administrators who don't pass muster. . 'Breaking the rules' Experts say the cheating scandal — which involved more schools and teachers than any other in U.S. history — has led to soul-searching among other urban districts facing cheating investigations and those that have seen a rapid rise in test scores. In Georgia, teachers complained to investigators that some 11-year-olds could only read as well as 6-year-olds. But, they said, principals insisted those students had to pass their standardized tests. Teachers were either ordered to cheat or pressured by administrators until they felt they had no choice, authorities said. One principal forced a teacher to crawl under a desk during a faculty meeting because her test scores were low. Another principal told teachers that "Walmart is hiring" and "the door swings both ways," the report said. Another principal told a teacher on her first day that the school did whatever was necessary to meet testing benchmarks, even if that meant "breaking the rules." Teachers from the investigation contacted by The Associated Press did not return calls or declined to comment. Educators named in the investigation could face criminal charges ranging from tampering with state documents to lying to investigators. And many could lose their teaching licenses. Parents of children enrolled at the 44 schools say they are frustrated and angry. John Bazemore / AP Shawnna Hayes-Tavares, a mother of three Atlanta public school students, speaks to reporters at a news conference in Atlanta, Wednesday. Shawnna Hayes-Tavares said her son's test scores dropped dramatically after he transferred out of Slater Elementary. She said a testing coordinator at the new school told her the test scores could have been inflated. The possibility that there could have been cheating "gives me and him a false sense of security as to where he is," she said. Uncertainty about her son's progress "has not afforded us the opportunity to do more remediation in those areas of weakness," Hayes-Tavares said. "It robbed us of those opportunities. We're going to try to play catch up now." Fallout At Slater, investigators found multiple teachers changed answers on tests or allowed students to look up answers to questions. Teachers would gather in the school's media center to change wrong answers with the blessing of administrators, investigators said. The fallout from the state report has only begun. . So far, at least four of the district's top administrators and two principals have been removed and put on paid leave. The head of the district's human resources department resigned after investigators said she destroyed documents and tried to cover up the extent of the cheating. The schools could owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in federal funding they received for good test performance — money that would be lost at a time when the state's education budget has already been slashed by millions. Districts are being forced to lay off or furlough teachers and cut programs to make ends meet. And at least one member of the Atlanta school board wants to reclaim tens of thousands of dollars in bonus money that former Superintendent Beverly Hall received for the high test scores. Investigators said Hall, who retired just days before the investigation was made public, dismissed those who complained about cheating as naysayers trying to discredit the district's progress. The investigators said she either knew or should have known about the cheating. . "Dr. Hall and her senior cabinet accepted accolades when those below them performed well, but they wanted none of the burdens of failure," investigators wrote. Hall's attorney has denied the allegations, and Hall has said she did not know about cheating in the district. She apologized in a statement last week for "any shortcomings" that might have led to the widespread cheating. "To the extent that I failed to take measures that would have prevented what the investigators have disclosed, I am accountable, as head of the school system, for failing to act accordingly," Hall wrote. "If I did anything that gave teachers the impression that I was unapproachable and unresponsive to their concerns, I also apologize for that." The testing problems first came to light after The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported that some scores were statistically improbable. The state released audits of test results after the newspaper published its analysis. Copyright 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43779246/ns/us_news-life/?gt1=43001
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steff
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Post by steff on Jul 16, 2011 15:10:50 GMT -5
Old news PI....that's been going around the Atlanta news for a very long time already. Heads are rolling and the shit is hitting the fan big time over it. And to imagine, it happened in a deeply Red state. Who'd have thunk it?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 16, 2011 15:32:17 GMT -5
“We think public schools should go away,’’ says Teri Adams, the head of the Independence Hall Tea Party and a leading advocate — both in New Jersey and Pennsylvania — of passage of school voucher bills. The tea party operates in those two states and Delaware. They should “go away,” she says, because “they are hurting our children.’’ [...] Adams says the current voucher program “discriminates” against wealthier students by providing public subsidies only to inner-city children in allegedly failing schools. Her group’s e-mails pushing vouchers caught the attention of James Kovalcin of South Brunswick, a retired public school teacher who asked Adams for clarification. She responded via email: “Our ultimate goal is to shut down public schools and have private schools only, eventually returning responsibility for payment to parents and private charities. It’s going to happen piecemeal and not overnight. It took us years to get into this mess and it’s going to take years to get out of it.” thinkprogress.org/education/2011/07/11/265663/voucher-tea-party-go-away/And what? I've been saying this for years. It's not merely what we 'want', it's what everyone wants. I mean, let's have a little reality check for just a second here: there's a reason the far left fears vouchers and that reason is that given competition, the government loses every time. There's simply no way that without the threat of violence the government could maintain a virtual monopoly over education in this country. Take away the government guns, give people true freedom to choose- and there's no one in their right mind that would choose a government run school. Well "everyone" doesn't want it since I don't want it. I'm not even sure the majority wants vouchers. The thing is there are choices and the school district is considered one of the big factors determining home price. Yes, the way we have it you aren't allowed to choose to go to a school outside your district and that does make some folks mad. I don't think all of the public schools are broken any more than I think all private schools, all Catholic schools, all voucher driven schools are good. Some crappy things survive due to price and location and private education will be no different. The market picked VHS because it was cheaper not because it was better than Beta. Why are there more Walmarts than high end stores? Its not about the quality, its about the price/cost and education will follow the pattern voucher schools or no. If we want our nation to plummet to the bottom of the educated world populace rankings we should definitely make the parents shoulder the entire financial burden of educating their children.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 16, 2011 16:08:57 GMT -5
Optimist, you have a point. Go back to the time before the Revolution and the time when there WERE no public schools. Only the well-to-do could afford education for their children, and, (I'm just guessing here), because of the size of families back then it was likely that only the most well-to-do could afford to educate ALL of their children, with the oldest males getting first dibs. Even in my time I can remember when, in addition to history, arithmetic, reading, writing and civics, the girl students took Home Economics, (sewing, nutrition, shopping), and boys took algebra, gym and rifle competition.
Public education is part of the foundation of the country. "An educated populace will never be conquered by despots." or something like that.
Why are so many schools named after Madison, Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, but none are named after King George?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 16, 2011 18:34:04 GMT -5
we are going to need public schools that graduate way more engineers and scientists, or we are going to become an "also-ran" to China in a generation.
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handyman2
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Post by handyman2 on Jul 16, 2011 18:58:52 GMT -5
Public schools do not graduate Engineers or scientists I am assuming you are refering to high schools. Colleges and Universities do. By the way China actually graduates only the top of the class in these endevors. Percentage wise they actually graduate a low number considering the number of people in China. Are theirs better than ours? Well they had to turn to Russia to design a modern day stealth fighter for them.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jul 16, 2011 20:28:55 GMT -5
Public schools do not graduate Engineers or scientists I am assuming you are refering to high schools. Colleges and Universities do. By the way China actually graduates only the top of the class in these endevors. Percentage wise they actually graduate a low number considering the number of people in China. Are theirs better than ours? Well they had to turn to Russia to design a modern day stealth fighter for them. um.....i graduated from a public school in engineering. but yeah- we need public high schools to do a better job of preparing them for those careers, as well.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 17, 2011 15:25:01 GMT -5
we are going to need public schools that graduate way more engineers and scientists, or we are going to become an "also-ran" to China in a generation. Speaking as an engineer and a worker in information technology that frequently gets laid off, the problem is more corporations choosing to hire cheap people often with fewer skills from countries like China instead of Americans. The problem is not that we don't have these people, the problem I see is their jobs keep disappearing so many of my fellow engineering grads have turned to other careers or endeavors including teaching, being a house husband, and the usual struggling unemployed(again) souls.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 17, 2011 15:30:31 GMT -5
we are going to need public schools that graduate way more engineers and scientists, or we are going to become an "also-ran" to China in a generation. Speaking as an engineer and a worker in information technology that frequently gets laid off, the problem is more corporations choosing to hire cheap people often with fewer skills from countries like China instead of Americans. The problem is not that we don't have these people, the problem I see is their jobs keep disappearing so many of my fellow engineering grads have turned to other careers or endeavors including teaching, being a house husband, and the usual struggling unemployed(again) souls. The problem is that Americans have priced themselves out of these jobs. It's the old, "I need" getting in the way. I see this all the time with employees, and with sellers of property. They begin all negotiations from the standpoint of what "I need". "I need" to make $X per hour, or per year", etc., or "I need to get $X for this house to sell it". What you "need" and what you're going to get are often two very different things. Americans have been remarkably stubborn in accepting the reality of global competition.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jul 17, 2011 15:43:14 GMT -5
But workers wages have pretty much been at a stand still or worse, for a while now,unless the media is just making a big deal out of this recession thing, while coporate profits have been setting records.......
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jul 17, 2011 15:49:44 GMT -5
If housing, utilities, food, etc. drop down to what they are in China and India more of us could do it. When you read YM the majority of the posters imply jobs of $20/hr. are there for most college grads when in reality that's no longer true. Employers often refuse to look at certain employees because of their own biases. I know many people who haven't priced themselves out of the market, employers refuse to interview them or keep looking for that unicorn employee because of the perception they can get anything now because of the economy. Last IT job I had a shot at the employer needed to downsize the salary severely and required the hiring agency to not interview candidates who had made over a certain amount. That's not employees pricing themselves out of the market; it is employers. I have many other examples too as I used to volunteer with unemployed professionals.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 17, 2011 20:24:50 GMT -5
Thereis nothing new about employers looking for more employees at lower labor costs. Not too many years ago the complaint was thaat when an employee reached a certain wage level they became vulnerable to being replaced at lower wages by younger people with new academic skills that the old employees had attained on the job.
Today it is even more evident. American companies don't like foreign competition any more than anybody else does, but it is economic suicide to pay the wages of ruination that leads to warehousing unsold products because of lower priced "unfair" competition from foreign producers.
There is nothing new about any of that, , , except that now it is finally being recognized by the very people who have long thought themselves to be immune.
Now, that said, when will the labor union bosses also wake up to the reality of it?
This insanity of unions trying to keep Boeing from opening a plant at a new onshore-in-America-site so they provide Americans with an income and continue to build the safest airplanes in the world, while being globally competitive at the same time, is pure suicidal idiocy.
But it is the best indicator available of why the United States no longer has the edge on manufacturing.
As said several times here and elsewhere, we have priced ouselves out of the market. We won;t even buy our own products, , because they cost too much.
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zipity
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Post by zipity on Jul 18, 2011 0:18:33 GMT -5
They are Independent school Districts and the bank account belongs to the schools and teachers. You statement makes no since.Please think about it and return your thoughts with a grip on facts...
I'm sorry, did I say ANYTHING about your ISD? ANYTHING? No, if you go back and read my post then take a look at which party is looking to kill public education, what I said does make sense even if you do a a couple of decent magnet schools. How are the rest of the kids doing, you know the ones who don't make it into a magnet school?
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