Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jul 14, 2011 8:52:19 GMT -5
To add a bit of levity to the discussion...
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bimetalaupt
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Post by bimetalaupt on Jul 14, 2011 14:21:06 GMT -5
They might have better luck if they try a campaign to shut down the Department of Education in Washington and return schools to the states. It is amazing that the country got along as well as it did before 1979 when the Department of Education was born. Until then the federal government had nothing to do with education. Isn't it amazing what has happened since? ... Creation of the Department of Education has lead to the collection of more accurate data on what schools in the United States are doing. Prior to its existence, no such data was available. What is happening is a comparison of today's reality to yesteryear's anecdotes. Bill, In the Scandinavian countries the Education is done with national systems.. Finland is a great example.. Start at 7 years and finish at the top of the world in quality.. Or ability to take standard test which is "NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND".. NOT CREATIVE STUDIES OR ANALYTIC THINKING.. WE DO HAVE GREAT SCHOOLS BUT IT IS THE AVERAGE THAT KILLS US. Just a thought, Bi Metal Au Pt
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 14, 2011 14:28:00 GMT -5
To me it comes down to ONE main issue: The freedom to choose. We have set up a government school monopoly which in its very conception is unAmerican, and immoral. People should be free to choose. If they were, even good government run schools would be better, and there'd be no bad schools because they'd go out of business.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 14, 2011 14:40:56 GMT -5
To me it comes down to ONE main issue: The freedom to choose. We have set up a government school monopoly which in its very conception is unAmerican, and immoral. People should be free to choose. If they were, even good government run schools would be better, and there'd be no bad schools because they'd go out of business. People are free to choose. They are free to choose which school (or to homeschool) their own child. They are free to choose by the election process school board members. They are free to choose by the election process state legislators and governors. They are free to choose by the election process federal legislators and a president.
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Post by ed1066 on Jul 14, 2011 14:54:03 GMT -5
To me it comes down to ONE main issue: The freedom to choose. We have set up a government school monopoly which in its very conception is unAmerican, and immoral. People should be free to choose. If they were, even good government run schools would be better, and there'd be no bad schools because they'd go out of business. People are free to choose. They are free to choose which school (or to homeschool) their own child. I keep saying this, bill, and the liberals jump on it and say how many people allegedly don't have the freedom to homeschool their kids. I say that's BS. Everyone has the freedom to do it. Perhaps some people aren't willing to give up their lifestyle in exchange for the freedom to homeschool, but that too is a choice...
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jul 14, 2011 15:11:39 GMT -5
I keep saying this, bill, and the liberals jump on it and say how many people allegedly don't have the freedom to homeschool their kids. I say that's BS. Everyone has the freedom to do it. Perhaps some people aren't willing to give up their lifestyle in exchange for the freedom to homeschool, but that too is a choice... Perhaps, ed. But, I think what pisses people off is the fact that while they can opt out of sending their kids to public schools, they cannot opt out of sending their tax dollars there. Government is afraid of any real competition to any of their social programs.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 14, 2011 15:14:49 GMT -5
"I keep saying this, bill, and the liberals jump on it and say how many people allegedly don't have the freedom to homeschool their kids. I say that's BS. Everyone has the freedom to do it. Perhaps some people aren't willing to give up their lifestyle in exchange for the freedom to homeschool, but that too is a choice..."
No, most people don't have the choice to homeschool, and it's not about givin up lifestyle. Homeschooling is only possible in a very specific set of circumstances. First, one parent needs to make enough to support the family. In many famlies, this takes two people. And of course you're even assuming mom & dad are married to begin with, what about single parent households? Mom or dad might not make enough individually to support the family.
Second, you have to assume the person doing the homeschooling is qualified to do it. Only about 25% of the adult population has a bachelor's degree. Lots of people out there aren't qualified to be teachers of their children.
Third, you have to assume the person doing the homeschooling has the temperment and desire to homeschool. I would fit into this catagory. I have the education and make enough money to potentially homeschool, but I have no desire and don't really have the temperment to be a GOOD teacher.
Homeschooling works for some people, but it's not an option for the majority for a wide variety of reasons. Not just because some people don't want to give up a certain lifestyle.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jul 14, 2011 15:16:58 GMT -5
For those that want to homeschool, knock yourselves out...enjoy it. For those of us that choose to use the public school system, that's fine too. I still think being an involved parent is the first step for both choices. As an involved parent, I've made the most out of opportunities kiddo was presented with and fought for him to get those opportunities. The things my son has accomplished in public school could have never been met or achieved if he had been homeschooled. I'm willing to admit that he surpassed what I could have taught him years ago and he's definately doing much better with the public school opportunities.
To each their own. And as a liberal, I don't care if you choose to homeschool. I'm not against it at all for those that want to do that. Just don't attempt to destroy the public schools because they aren't what you prefer. Some of us are making the most out of our public schools.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 14, 2011 15:18:28 GMT -5
.. .But, I think what pisses people off is the fact that while they can opt out of sending their kids to public schools, they cannot opt out of sending their tax dollars there.... I would agree. I know that there are things that I disapprove of funding but that the majority of my fellow citizens have determined our tax money will be spent on those items.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 14, 2011 15:22:47 GMT -5
Yep, billis. I don't have any children young enough to be in school. My children's children are in university, or have completed it and are working (except for the youngest who will graduate high school next year and goes to public school). I could spit and fume about having to support public schools, I suppose. I don't. I figure it's my responsibility to my community and future generations. It's not all about me and mine.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 14, 2011 15:42:54 GMT -5
... It's not all about me and mine. It might not be all about you and yours but it is all about me and mine. I am glad that we are educating our fellow citizens (who end up with a equal vote as I have) and fellow workers as well as all those ya' hoos I have to deal with in my life. (I certainly wish they had learned more but I realize that just means I am getting old. )
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 14, 2011 16:14:02 GMT -5
Hee! We do learn a few things over the years, don't we, billis? Remember when your parents were too dumb to come in out of the rain on their own? Yeah, right!
Education is important to everyone. It's not just about one's own nuclear family. Those around us impact our lives in many ways. The better we can educate our people the more positive those impacts will be. While our education system can certainly use some work, the thought of eliminating public schools seems pretty narrow in vision, as I see it.
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bimetalaupt
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Post by bimetalaupt on Jul 14, 2011 16:16:50 GMT -5
To me it comes down to ONE main issue: The freedom to choose. We have set up a government school monopoly which in its very conception is unAmerican, and immoral. People should be free to choose. If they were, even good government run schools would be better, and there'd be no bad schools because they'd go out of business. Palm Beach Paul, No.. In Abilene,TX we have three IDS's depending on area of the city .. Which means three set of home values due to the schools..AISD Just opened two super High Schools for the advanced study.. One is located at each of the two major Universities.. Like New York they have made a new standard for education in West Texas. Just a thought, Bi
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 14, 2011 18:16:50 GMT -5
For those that want to homeschool, knock yourselves out...enjoy it. For those of us that choose to use the public school system, that's fine too. I still think being an involved parent is the first step for both choices. As an involved parent, I've made the most out of opportunities kiddo was presented with and fought for him to get those opportunities. The things my son has accomplished in public school could have never been met or achieved if he had been homeschooled. I'm willing to admit that he surpassed what I could have taught him years ago and he's definately doing much better with the public school opportunities. To each their own. And as a liberal, I don't care if you choose to homeschool. I'm not against it at all for those that want to do that. Just don't attempt to destroy the public schools because they aren't what you prefer. Some of us are making the most out of our public schools. As a liberal, you do care- because eventually if enough people opt out, it'll be harder to justify the schools, and the teachers, and the teacher's unions, and the contributions by the unions to the Democratic Party. As a liberal, you also care because you wouldn't want to see us having true choice-- that is public funding, but with parental choice. You're a typical liberal when the rubber meets the road you favor the government run school monopoly. I'm sure you shudder to think of a day when government will put away the guns and people can keep their money and do as they please.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 14, 2011 18:22:50 GMT -5
...-- that is public funding, but with parental choice. .... It is the oversight of schools by the school board which I help elect that justifies my paying taxes to pay to send your children to school. You can't have my tax dollars unless I have that representation.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 14, 2011 18:45:26 GMT -5
Or, it could indicate the poster follows the British rules rather than the American rules ...
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 14, 2011 18:58:43 GMT -5
Or, it could indicate the poster follows the British rules rather than the American rules ... I guess if where you put that damn period is going to be a sign of being "educated", (whoops-inside or out?) damn damn damn
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 14, 2011 19:02:55 GMT -5
bills said: People are free to choose. They are free to choose which school (or to homeschool) their own child. Maybe no one else noticed it bills, but of course "you" know that to be a fundamantally wrong statement. If it were true you know there would be no need to vouchers, magnet schools, charter schools, or any other kind of public schools. But you also must know, because of the frequency it is done, that injecting nonsense into a discussion does have "some" comedic value. On the other hand, if you truly think your statement is valid, will you demonstrate how it works? I mean, do you know of any case/s where a parent can, could have or did, successfully enroll their child or children into the school, or the schools of "their" choice just because that's where they wanted their child or children to attand school?
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 14, 2011 19:09:34 GMT -5
Knowing where to put the period, inside or outside the quotation marks, means you paid attention when its placement was taught.
Later tonight I'll scan and paste an entire chapter on it.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jul 14, 2011 19:13:30 GMT -5
goodness henry, you also seem to have one of those crystal balls that tells you what everyone here thinks, believes or acts on.
And yes, I do support having a school system with consistancy. While ours isn't perfect, I still think it's a good system that needs some tweaking. I still believe that the #1 priority should be parental involvement. That alone will do a lot to help improve the system and help the kids.
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bimetalaupt
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Post by bimetalaupt on Jul 14, 2011 19:22:57 GMT -5
Or, it could indicate the poster follows the British rules rather than the American rules ... I guess if where you put that damn period is going to be a sign of being "educated", (whoops-inside or out?) damn damn damn Bill, No: It is a full Stop not a period. One is contingent on the other. "It is the collour Read RED".Or in West Texas we would say" Your inability to read something written in the colour red."
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 14, 2011 19:39:06 GMT -5
steff, I couldn't agree more, but please help me understand how parental involvement is encouraged by the federal governmment telling parents they have no say in subjects or subject matter?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 14, 2011 19:49:11 GMT -5
...-- that is public funding, but with parental choice. .... It is the oversight of schools by the school board which I help elect that justifies my paying taxes to pay to send your children to school. You can't have my tax dollars unless I have that representation. You think your local school board has a say in how the government run school does anything? Or are you just trying to be funny?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 14, 2011 19:51:06 GMT -5
...-- that is public funding, but with parental choice. .... It is the oversight of schools by the school board which I help elect that justifies my paying taxes to pay to send your children to school. You can't have my tax dollars unless I have that representation. And what about MY tax dollars? I am decidedly NOT represented, because MY true free choice is to send my kids to private school. So, I get to pay for my kid's schooling AND the indoctrination of the government run school drones my kids are eventually going to have to contend with.
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ungenteel
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Post by ungenteel on Jul 14, 2011 20:01:29 GMT -5
<<Abolish Public Schools? >> While we're at it ... let's privatize police and fire services ... I live in a safe area why should I spend my money for police? ?
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bimetalaupt
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Post by bimetalaupt on Jul 14, 2011 20:04:00 GMT -5
It is the oversight of schools by the school board which I help elect that justifies my paying taxes to pay to send your children to school. You can't have my tax dollars unless I have that representation. You think your local school board has a say in how the government run school does anything? Or are you just trying to be funny? Paul, Well I live in West Texas and the local School ISD are doing well with more oil money every year. Taxes from ISD are low and the education level has improved over the last five year.. Abilene has two speciality High Schools like New York .. Classes are demanding and there is a list of students that want to enter. New York has nine of them. Best know is Stuyvesant High School (pronounced /ˈstaɪvəsənt/), commonly referred to as Stuy (/staɪ/),[3] is a New York City public high school that specializes in mathematics and science. The school opened in 1904 on Manhattan's East Side and moved to a new building in Battery Park City in 1992. Stuyvesant is noted for its strong academic programs, having produced many notable alumni including four Nobel laureates.[5] U.S. News & World Report ranked it thirty-first in their 2009 list of America's best "Gold-Medal" public high schools.[6]
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ungenteel
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Post by ungenteel on Jul 14, 2011 20:10:08 GMT -5
<<Abolish Public Schools? >>
this country has become truly sick and short sighted when we get to the point where we don't want to pay to send our neighbor's child to school
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 14, 2011 21:12:34 GMT -5
bills said: People are free to choose. They are free to choose which school (or to homeschool) their own child. .... On the other hand, if you truly think your statement is valid, will you demonstrate how it works? ... You go to the school and fill out the paperwork.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 14, 2011 21:14:35 GMT -5
It is the oversight of schools by the school board which I help elect that justifies my paying taxes to pay to send your children to school. You can't have my tax dollars unless I have that representation. You think your local school board has a say in how the government run school does anything? Or are you just trying to be funny? They do have a say in the school districts I have lived in and taught in.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 14, 2011 21:22:46 GMT -5
It is the oversight of schools by the school board which I help elect that justifies my paying taxes to pay to send your children to school. You can't have my tax dollars unless I have that representation. And what about MY tax dollars? I am decidedly NOT represented, because MY true free choice is to send my kids to private school. So, I get to pay for my kid's schooling AND the indoctrination of the government run school drones my kids are eventually going to have to contend with. How are you not represented in regards to the schools that use your tax dollars? You have a vote for the school board of the district you live in don't you? The fact that you choose to not send your kid to that school is simply you exercising your freedom as an American. The tax money that you pay is in no way connected to the fact that you have a child of an age that could use the school if you chose.
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