swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 13, 2011 14:39:34 GMT -5
I don't see the teachers as the major problem in the public schools. True, there are some bad ones, but it seems to me all the rest (the majority) are so constrained by corrupt, incompetent administration, useless standards and failed "diversity", "self-esteem" and "sensitivity" programs that they literally cannot do their jobs (teaching reading, writing, history, science and math). I think most of these good teachers (and their students) would flourish in an environment where they have less intrusive oversight by incompetent government agencies, less meddling and manipulation by corrupt unions and more authority to discipline and transfer/expel troublemakers. We agree on something. However, I'm not sure it's all the liberal's fault. No Child Left Behind is awful, and that was a GWB program. Obama has left his mark on it, but it's not just the liberals who are meddling.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 13, 2011 14:39:38 GMT -5
The starting point should be getting more parents involved in their childs education. Start there. ... As for discipline, one of the main problems is that school districts are terrified of being sued by disgruntled parents. ...
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SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on Jul 13, 2011 14:50:08 GMT -5
I don't see the teachers as the major problem in the public schools. True, there are some bad ones, but it seems to me all the rest (the majority) are so constrained by corrupt, incompetent administration, useless standards and failed "diversity", "self-esteem" and "sensitivity" programs that they literally cannot do their jobs (teaching reading, writing, history, science and math). I think most of these good teachers (and their students) would flourish in an environment where they have less intrusive oversight by incompetent government agencies, less meddling and manipulation by corrupt unions and more authority to discipline and transfer/expel troublemakers. Too bad that will never happen as long as the liberals run the schools... eddie, I can tell you from my own personal experience, our union does not "meddle" in our day to day operation. I asked you earlier if you have ever taught in a public school. I tend to think you have not because you keep repeating the same talking points about the big bad unions, but you are only repeating the propaganda you constantly expose yourself to. Im not saying that there is not corruption in unions or that some union leaders are not power hungry or money hungry. That happens in all organizations and it should be fixed, but it is not the main cause of the problems in education as you have been led to believe. At least in my 11 year experience, the union has had no role in meddling in our daily operation. Now I will agree with you about the government (feds especially) getting involved in education. Education should be left up the local governments for the most part.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jul 13, 2011 14:53:16 GMT -5
I don't know about abolishing public schools, that seems like overkill. But for starters eliminated the department of education and return complete control to the States.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jul 13, 2011 14:58:46 GMT -5
Sorry, but in Georgia, our new Tea Party govn tried to close all Charter schools and tried to take the lottery money away from the schools. Thankfully, he lost both of those fights. Our last govn ( a repub that I voted for....*gasp* a liberal voted for a Repub) was very very good for our school system. The new TP govn tried to destroy it.
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SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on Jul 13, 2011 15:00:04 GMT -5
Our district has been offering evening parent seminars once per month in order to try and get parents involved in their kids' education. These seminars cover several topics such as curriculum, methods, technology, learning disabilities, problems at home, social problems, community resources, etc... There has been improvement on parent involvement and student performance since we started these seminars. How do we get the parents to go? We call them one by one, inform them of the meeting, and then we proceed to bribe them to come to the meeting. We provide free food, and prizes. And guess what? They come by the masses. I'm not saying I agree with how we get them there. I think that parents should go just because it would help their child. But that goes back to the original problem of parents not getting involved.
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Post by ed1066 on Jul 13, 2011 15:04:35 GMT -5
Our district has been offering evening parent seminars once per month in order to try and get parents involved in their kids' education. These seminars cover several topics such as curriculum, methods, technology, learning disabilities, problems at home, social problems, community resources, etc... There has been improvement on parent involvement and student performance since we stared these seminars. How do we get the parents to go? We call them one by one, inform them of the meeting, and then we proceed to bribe them to come to the meeting. We provide free food, and prizes. And guess what? They come by the masses. I'm not saying I agree with how we get them there. I think that parents should go just because it would help their child. But that goes back to the original problem of parents not getting involved. The government is giving parenting classes?? Sorry, but that's like hiring Casey Anthony as a babysitter...
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steff
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Post by steff on Jul 13, 2011 15:05:59 GMT -5
When kiddo had his orientation at the Charter school that first year, several parents were more concerned about would there be a prom than anything else (there isn't one). I was asking questions about the laptops, the internships, and the college testing off campus....the ladies next to me were asking about dances, proms, was volunteer work manditory (it is) and the nonexistant sports programs.
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SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on Jul 13, 2011 15:06:33 GMT -5
Our district has been offering evening parent seminars once per month in order to try and get parents involved in their kids' education. These seminars cover several topics such as curriculum, methods, technology, learning disabilities, problems at home, social problems, community resources, etc... There has been improvement on parent involvement and student performance since we stared these seminars. How do we get the parents to go? We call them one by one, inform them of the meeting, and then we proceed to bribe them to come to the meeting. We provide free food, and prizes. And guess what? They come by the masses. I'm not saying I agree with how we get them there. I think that parents should go just because it would help their child. But that goes back to the original problem of parents not getting involved. The government is giving parenting classes?? Sorry, but that's like hiring Casey Anthony as a babysitter... No eddie, not parenting classes. These are informational meetings. Nothing more. Not a bad attempt at humor this time though. Not bad at all.
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SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on Jul 13, 2011 15:09:35 GMT -5
When kiddo had his orientation at the Charter school that first year, several parents were more concerned about would there be a prom than anything else (there isn't one). I was asking questions about the laptops, the internships, and the college testing off campus....the ladies next to me were asking about dances, proms, was volunteer work manditory (it is) and the nonexistant sports programs. Wow. They seem to really miss the point of the Charter school.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jul 13, 2011 15:14:20 GMT -5
To say they didn't get the point would be an understatement. And there are parents that still ask those things. I get so frustrated during the open house nights with the stupid things I hear being asked. There was one mom who had a shit fit over there being no orchestra classes. Like a serious fit over it...yelling, cussing, stormed out....over an orchestra class.
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SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on Jul 13, 2011 15:17:25 GMT -5
To say they didn't get the point would be an understatement. And there are parents that still ask those things. I get so frustrated during the open house nights with the stupid things I hear being asked. There was one mom who had a shit fit over there being no orchestra classes. Like a serious fit over it...yelling, cussing, stormed out....over an orchestra class. Yikes. That is crazy. Are orchestra classes even the norm at charter schools?
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steff
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Post by steff on Jul 13, 2011 15:21:57 GMT -5
To be honest, I don't know if it's normal or not. I do know that this Charter school is considered an experiment with the ciriculum. It was almost closed at the end of this year, but thankfully the govn lost that fight and the courts have thrown out the main lawsuits over "my kid didn't get in, it's not fair". The drop rate is still too high, but it's finally fallen under 50%. the first class graduated this year. kiddo will be the 2nd class to graduate.
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fairlycrazy23
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Post by fairlycrazy23 on Jul 13, 2011 15:22:16 GMT -5
Sorry, but in Georgia, our new Tea Party govn tried to close all Charter schools and tried to take the lottery money away from the schools. Thankfully, he lost both of those fights. Our last govn ( a repub that I voted for....*gasp* a liberal voted for a Repub) was very very good for our school system. The new TP govn tried to destroy it. Some states will be better than others, vote in the people you want.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jul 13, 2011 15:22:18 GMT -5
I'm not a teacher, but eliminating public schools is a bad notion. I think there are positive changes that could and should be made though. I would really worry if public school was abolished though. That's how it is in most third world countries, education is a privladge for the wealthy, while the masses simply can't afford it. I don't want to live in a country where there's a "great divide" between the great wealthy elite and the unwashed masses.
A good place to start is to get politics out of the school system and focus on reading, writing, math, science and history. There's no reason for kids to be spending time learning about it's okay to be gay or white privledge.
Parental involvement is key, but short of making people get licenses to breed I don't think you can fix that. The public schools can't fix in 6 hours a day the damage a lot of parents do to their kids. In addition, the kids are already shaped by their parents for 6 years prior to even entering school.
I also second the idea that our standings in the world aren't as bad as intially one would think. Most countries like China and India don't educate huge swaths of the population and those people aren't tested. In addition they don't require people to go to school until they're 18. In the U.S, we try to educate everyone and until they're 18. If you do an apples to apples comparrison you'll find the U.S is above average. You'll also find the U.S is above average when you take out the poorest school districts.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jul 13, 2011 15:28:38 GMT -5
great in theory, but shouldn't there be at least some consistancy? I did not vote for the new govn, but last election I did vote for the Republican incumbent govn. He worked very hard to improve the schools, started programs like the Charter school my son is in, the tech classes for a certificate is another program he started. The new govn takes over and immediate went after all those programs as "excess". I don't think kids like mine should suddenly have the base of their education yanked out from under them. IF the new govn had ended all the programs, the Charter school was prepared to graduate kids that had technically completed the states requirments. They were sophomores (technically) and 15-16 yrs old. Most businesses in Georgia require a kid to be 18 to be hired, even many grocery stores.
It was insane that the new govt went after education so hard and heavy. Thank goodness our congress had enough collective brains to realize that we can't afford to dumb down the kids any more than they already are.
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SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on Jul 13, 2011 15:38:04 GMT -5
To be honest, I don't know if it's normal or not. I do know that this Charter school is considered an experiment with the ciriculum. It was almost closed at the end of this year, but thankfully the govn lost that fight and the courts have thrown out the main lawsuits over "my kid didn't get in, it's not fair". The drop rate is still too high, but it's finally fallen under 50%. the first class graduated this year. kiddo will be the 2nd class to graduate. I don't understand parents such as that lady or the ones asking only about proms etc. They do not seem to have their priorities straight and if what they want most are the proms, sports, etc, then maybe they should take their kid out of the charter school, and give another kid that opportunity. So your son will be graduating this coming school year? Wow. How exciting. My son just graduated in June. It is surreal to me. I only have the one kid. Im excited for him but sad for me.
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steff
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Post by steff on Jul 13, 2011 15:42:06 GMT -5
Yep, he'll be a Senior starting next month...turned 17 in May. I got old!....lol
He will be interning with UGA's agriculture dept this year, starts in 2 weeks...he'll be going to the tech college 4 days a week for the drafting & welding...and taking more of his college math courses....he's done with the high school work...it's now all college classes & the internship. He's working towards agricultural engineering....
last year he interned with a local tv station that shows all the high school sports. He got to film games & edit them in the tv station....also tied in with the UGA sports & journalism depts. His first year he interned with the Atlanta Zoo.... 2nd year with Delta Airlines in their R&D dept.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 13, 2011 15:55:30 GMT -5
They might have better luck if they try a campaign to shut down the Department of Education in Washington and return schools to the states.
It is amazing that the country got along as well as it did before 1979 when the Department of Education was born. Until then the federal government had nothing to do with education. Isn't it amazing what has happened since? And how did it come about? According to their own website: , , "The primary functions of the Department of Education are to establish policy for, administer and coordinate most federal assistance to education, collect data on US schools, and to enforce federal educational laws regarding privacy and civil rights. As if we needed a seperate federal agency to screw up state efforts to provide American industry with educated people, when the teachers unions are already doing such a magnificent job of it.
Take the part about "collect data and coordinate federal assistance" for instance. In plain English that says if you don't tow the mark you will not be funded, and requires all curricula, lesson plans and methods to be reviewed by federal bureaucrats whose job it is to put somebody at the bottom of the heap. If a local school board objects, they are told to take it up with Washington.
And one more thing. Does anybody even know the name of the Secretary of Education? It's a presidental cabinet post level position, confirmed by the Congress.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 13, 2011 16:12:08 GMT -5
They might have better luck if they try a campaign to shut down the Department of Education in Washington and return schools to the states. It is amazing that the country got along as well as it did before 1979 when the Department of Education was born. Until then the federal government had nothing to do with education. Isn't it amazing what has happened since? ... Creation of the Department of Education has lead to the collection of more accurate data on what schools in the United States are doing. Prior to its existence, no such data was available. What is happening is a comparison of today's reality to yesteryear's anecdotes.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 13, 2011 16:22:50 GMT -5
Good, bills. Glad to hear about all that accurate data. I ASSume it includes the bursting seams of a failing system. Maybe they could compare their data to the old anecdotes and get out of the way so the states could run their own schools.
And btw, there's an open question in #108 that you skipped. Want to correct that off the end of your fingers real fast? Or does it require research?
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SweetVirginia
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Post by SweetVirginia on Jul 13, 2011 16:40:07 GMT -5
Yep, he'll be a Senior starting next month...turned 17 in May. I got old!....lol He will be interning with UGA's agriculture dept this year, starts in 2 weeks...he'll be going to the tech college 4 days a week for the drafting & welding...and taking more of his college math courses....he's done with the high school work...it's now all college classes & the internship. He's working towards agricultural engineering.... last year he interned with a local tv station that shows all the high school sports. He got to film games & edit them in the tv station....also tied in with the UGA sports & journalism depts. His first year he interned with the Atlanta Zoo.... 2nd year with Delta Airlines in their R&D dept. Wow! How wonderful. Your son is already on the road to great success. You must be extremely proud. Good job and congrats to both of you!
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 13, 2011 17:28:36 GMT -5
... And btw, there's an open question in #108 that you skipped. Want to correct that off the end of your fingers real fast? Or does it require research?You mean this question? Without doing some serious research into the issue, I would have to just guess that the answer is "yes", someone does know the name of the Secretary of Education. I personally don't truly care who the bureaucrat is who is running the Department of Education, so it isn't me that knows. But I feel very comfortable that someone does know.
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bimetalaupt
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Post by bimetalaupt on Jul 13, 2011 17:40:16 GMT -5
... And btw, there's an open question in #108 that you skipped. Want to correct that off the end of your fingers real fast? Or does it require research?You mean this question? Without doing some serious research into the issue, I would have to just guess that the answer is "yes", someone does know the name of the Secretary of Education. I personally don't truly care who the bureaucrat is who is running the Department of Education, so it isn't me that knows. But I feel very comfortable that someone does know. Arne Duncan.. Came from Chicago and did a good job with that ISD.. The Point is IDS.. You can make your local schools great .." Education is our number one Priority.".A. DuncanJust a thought, Bi Metal Au Pt
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Post by ed1066 on Jul 13, 2011 17:43:02 GMT -5
Arne Duncan is a standard Obama crony, another Chicago machine Democrat, worked for Daley, etc. etc. Seems harmless, just another useless bureaucrat wasting tax dollars...
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 13, 2011 17:47:13 GMT -5
You mean this question? Without doing some serious research into the issue, I would have to just guess that the answer is "yes", someone does know the name of the Secretary of Education. I personally don't truly care who the bureaucrat is who is running the Department of Education, so it isn't me that knows. But I feel very comfortable that someone does know. Arne Duncan.. Came from Chicago and did a good job with that ISD.. The Point is IDS.. You can make your local schools great .." Education is our number one Priority.".A. DuncanJust a thought, Bi Metal Au Pt There you go henryclay. I was correct. Someone did know. ;D
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ungenteel
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Post by ungenteel on Jul 13, 2011 23:55:13 GMT -5
<<Abolish Public Schools?>> Can righties get anymore creepy and social Darwinistic? ?
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bimetalaupt
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Post by bimetalaupt on Jul 14, 2011 7:09:49 GMT -5
As for parents, this is the most difficult problem to deal with. We cannot force parents to become involved or to even care about their kids' education. Unfortunately, there are a lot of parents who are not involved enough. In some cases, it is because they work a lot of hours and it is difficult for them to be involved. In other cases, the parents do not value education and see schools as a babysitter rather than a place of learning. In the case of most of my students, the parents do not speak English and have little to no education themselves. They are unable to help their kids with school work even if they want to. Many of my students' parents see their kids' education as being the sole responsibility of the schools and the teachers. My brother, who finally couldn't take teaching in So. Calif. anymore, would agree with you. He said that trying to teach students who don't speak English was a joke. It couldn't be done and the only way to pass them was to do it through the back door...whatever that meant. He said, basically, we the taxpayers were paying through the nose for daycare for the illegals. He spoke to me for hours about the corruption and waste of money in the Ca. school system. The things he told me made me sick. IMHO, I think that in regards to our school system too many chefs have spoiled the broth. Lonewolf, I have several friend that went to high school here.. International High School is one of the best and it is demanding..Students love it as well as the teachers.. Students are motivated like the other examination entrance school.. Remember Fame!!! IHS offers a rigorous college preparatory program for limited English proficient students in a multicultural educational environment. IHS gives priority to students of limited English proficiency who have been in the United States fewer than four years at the time of application. Once admitted, the students remain with the school for their entire high school career. They receive a substantive high school/college curriculum taught with a content-based English-as-a-second-language approach. At the same time, students maintain and further develop their native language skills by engaging in peer-mediated instructional activities using materials and textbooks in English as well as their native languages. © School History Former Principal Eric Nadelstern founded The International High School at LaGuardia Community College in 1985 as a joint venture by the New York City Board of Education and the Board of Higher Education of the City of New York. The school has been designated as an Academic Excellence Project and has twice been cited as a Center of Excellence for the teaching of English communication arts. International High School International High School Logo Curriculum IHS curriculum requirements meet or exceed all New York State Education Department standards for a high school diploma. All classes are heterogeneous (mixed) by language, achievement, grade level, and age. Classes are structured around the development of thematic projects in cooperative learning groups. Students work in depth, both collaboratively and independently. Students fulfill graduation requirements by passing year-long interdisciplinary programs incorporating the Humanities, Math/Science/Technology, and Applied Learning. There are six interdisciplinary programs based on such themes as: American Dream: Bridges to Reality Connections Inquiry and Action Origins, Growth, and Structures Projects and Adventures in New York City The World Around Us/World of Money
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Jul 14, 2011 7:43:14 GMT -5
bills,
One more Chicago trained Daley lackey, (Arne Duncan), in Washington may be a good thing for Chicago. It leaves room there for improvement. And if you notice Duncan has a stock broker from San Francisco for his second in command. I hope someone is watching the retirement funds.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 14, 2011 8:42:56 GMT -5
“We think public schools should go away,’’ says Teri Adams, the head of the Independence Hall Tea Party and a leading advocate — both in New Jersey and Pennsylvania — of passage of school voucher bills. The tea party operates in those two states and Delaware. They should “go away,” she says, because “they are hurting our children.’’ [...] Adams says the current voucher program “discriminates” against wealthier students by providing public subsidies only to inner-city children in allegedly failing schools. Her group’s e-mails pushing vouchers caught the attention of James Kovalcin of South Brunswick, a retired public school teacher who asked Adams for clarification. She responded via email: “Our ultimate goal is to shut down public schools and have private schools only, eventually returning responsibility for payment to parents and private charities. It’s going to happen piecemeal and not overnight. It took us years to get into this mess and it’s going to take years to get out of it.” thinkprogress.org/education/2011/07/11/265663/voucher-tea-party-go-away/And what? I've been saying this for years. It's not merely what we 'want', it's what everyone wants. I mean, let's have a little reality check for just a second here: there's a reason the far left fears vouchers and that reason is that given competition, the government loses every time. There's simply no way that without the threat of violence the government could maintain a virtual monopoly over education in this country. Take away the government guns, give people true freedom to choose- and there's no one in their right mind that would choose a government run school.
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