Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 30, 2011 22:33:33 GMT -5
And that is because, as a parent, my part in raising my son has taken root, isn't shakey, and isn't easily changed or altered by outside influences. My child isn't up for easy grabs by anyone claiming that if he doesn't believe as they do, then he isn't American "enough". Ask my dad, a union card carrying liberal, how he wound-up with an ultraconservative daughter...sometimes a child learns to think on their own and develop their own beliefs
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Post by privateinvestor on Jun 30, 2011 22:41:50 GMT -5
And that is because, as a parent, my part in raising my son has taken root, isn't shakey, and isn't easily changed or altered by outside influences. My child isn't up for easy grabs by anyone claiming that if he doesn't believe as they do, then he isn't American "enough". Ask my dad, a union card carrying liberal, how he wound-up with an ultraconservative daughter...sometimes a child learns to think on their own and develop their own beliefs Or our dear daughters are just too rebellious and want to do every thing their way but when that doesn't work out they turn to Mom.. And then poor ole Dad is told about this.... But whoever said " Dads, You will never lose your daughter" was right IMHO
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 30, 2011 22:46:31 GMT -5
Actually I find this entire thread (a la PalmBeachPaul) offensive and insulting. Perhaps moderator action should occur. You find a Harvard study offensive and insulting?
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jun 30, 2011 22:53:39 GMT -5
"Warning to the Libs: That Fourth of July Parade is Likely to Turn Your Kids Into Republicans. And we don't want you at OUR parade anyway-- because as it turns out, it is OUR parade. Not yours."
Didn't your mother ever tell you to stop that or you'll go blind?
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Post by privateinvestor on Jun 30, 2011 22:53:54 GMT -5
Actually I find this entire thread (a la PalmBeachPaul) offensive and insulting. Perhaps moderator action should occur. You find a Harvard study offensive and insulting? Was this study done under the guidance of Barrack Hussein Obama when he was a Harvard Man??
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jun 30, 2011 23:00:19 GMT -5
Actually I find this entire thread (a la PalmBeachPaul) offensive and insulting. Perhaps moderator action should occur. You find a Harvard study offensive and insulting? Evidently they do. And to think this study came from one of the most leftist institutions this country has..... Question for everyone. Has anyone gone to the fireworks on the Fourth, and had the crowd break out singing the National Anthem at the beginning of the Grand Finale of the fireworks presentation? We had that happen a few years ago. Granted the young men were feeling relatively little pain due to large quantities of beer and wine, but the song grew to include several thousand people in attendance singing the anthem even after the last burst of fireworks died off. Our local town has done this every year since, without any prodding. When a few start singing, it spreads like wildfire thru the crowd, and without benefit of a band enhancing theperformance. I must say, people walking home afterwards always seem to have a little more pep in their step than in years before this gesture. I would suggest, that you might want to start this at your fireworks show this year, if it does not have liv music blaring with the fireworks. I would suggest, to make sure it happens correctly, that a few of you have prepared papers with the Anthem printed out, to a select few in your group, to keep the song going. Especially on the Democratic side of the crowd. P.S. It is ok if some of you are a little off que. The vast majority will drown you out. Do it, and I guarentee you will not go home quite as tired as you usually do after a long day of parades and fun.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jun 30, 2011 23:02:20 GMT -5
Has anyone gone to the fireworks on the Fourth, and had the crowd break out singing the National Anthem at the beginning of the Grand Finale of the fireworks presentation
Yea in Boston when the Boston Pops plays at the Charles River Esplanade except when we get drown out by the Artillery going off
I also just found out the USS Constitution is going to sail around Boston Harbor on Monday AM and fire their cannons...that ought to wake up the late sleepers who live next to the harbor
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 30, 2011 23:04:59 GMT -5
You all enjoy your Independence Day celebrations- including the parade. Bring the kids. I personally have had a ball in this discussion- I'm always going to maintain that liberals don't like America as it was founded, and have always sought ways to "fundamentally transform" the country. I not only didn't think this was up for any serious debate, I pretty much thought liberals mostly admit it. I could be wrong, but it's not likely. www.jimtraber.net/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?TID=65725
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cereb
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Post by cereb on Jun 30, 2011 23:07:31 GMT -5
you'll go blind..... ;D
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Post by privateinvestor on Jun 30, 2011 23:08:14 GMT -5
You too PBP and enjoyed the Harvard Study....good stuff Liberals and Democrats go nuts whenever any columnist dares to suggest that John F. Kennedy had more in common with Ronald Reagan than he did with, say, Kennedy's brother Bobby during the latter's bid for the presidency in 1968; or with another brother, Ted Kennedy, during most of his career in the U.S. Senate. Partisans of the political left will argue that John Kennedy was a liberals' liberal. They will say he subscribed to an entirely different political philosophy than Reagan and that the various points of comparison between the two ex-presidents are taken out of context.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 30, 2011 23:12:13 GMT -5
"Warning to the Libs: That Fourth of July Parade is Likely to Turn Your Kids Into Republicans. And we don't want you at OUR parade anyway-- because as it turns out, it is OUR parade. Not yours." Didn't your mother ever tell you to stop that or you'll go blind? My mother never knew how dangerous a Harvard study could be. Thanks for the heads up, though.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jun 30, 2011 23:19:49 GMT -5
Hey PBP are you familar with the Harvard Study that proves that Liberals feel extremely threatened by Intelligent, White Conservative Males....??..I think Dr Henry Kissinger was a co author or contributed to that study..
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steff
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Post by steff on Jun 30, 2011 23:33:53 GMT -5
the 4th of July is an American holiay. No matter how hard the Republicans try to exclude & remove anyone who doesn't believe the same as they do, it's still a holiday for ALL Americans.
Live with it.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 30, 2011 23:37:47 GMT -5
In a majority of the surveys, the data contains information on the county of residence. A limitation is that we lack information of the county of birth or county of residence in childhood. When investigating the long-term effect of Fourth of July, we would like to measure rainfall for an individual during childhood. Since we only observe the county of residence at the time of the survey, we match at the county of residence, leading to a measurement error problem. However, in most surveys, data is available on the region of birth. To mitigate some of the measurement error problem we only include individuals living in the region of birth in Panel A. www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/dyanagi/Research/FourthOfJuly.pdf So they excluded all individuals who have moved from their region of birth. This factor introduces an incredible bias into the study.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jun 30, 2011 23:42:50 GMT -5
In a majority of the surveys, the data contains information on the county of residence. A limitation is that we lack information of the county of birth or county of residence in childhood. When investigating the long-term effect of Fourth of July, we would like to measure rainfall for an individual during childhood. Since we only observe the county of residence at the time of the survey, we match at the county of residence, leading to a measurement error problem. However, in most surveys, data is available on the region of birth. To mitigate some of the measurement error problem we only include individuals living in the region of birth in Panel A. www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/dyanagi/Research/FourthOfJuly.pdf So they excluded all individuals who have moved from their region of birth. This factor introduces an incredible bias into the study. There are also studies that claim most liberals live on both of our coasts while conservatives live in the heartland ..and other studies that show Conservative Media is eating the Liberal Media's lunch.. Fox is a good indication of this trend..
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jul 1, 2011 6:32:08 GMT -5
the 4th of July is an American holiay. No matter how hard the Republicans try to exclude & remove anyone who doesn't believe the same as they do, it's still a holiday for ALL Americans. Live with it. Yes, we live with it. It was a study, Steff. Just because you do not like the results, don't get a coronary. Live with it. And go ahead and celebrate the Holiday. We are! God Bless America! Opps. I just injected religion on a political subject. Oh well..... Seems like it is appropiate to say God Bless America on the Fouth of July, or Independence Day for the politically correct crowd.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jul 1, 2011 6:34:05 GMT -5
Could we get a couple of flag smileys for the Holiday? Just for the political righties that post here. We are the only ones that need them
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 1, 2011 9:06:00 GMT -5
You all enjoy your Independence Day celebrations- including the parade. Bring the kids. I personally have had a ball in this discussion- I'm always going to maintain that liberals don't like America as it was founded, and have always sought ways to "fundamentally transform" the country. I not only didn't think this was up for any serious debate, I pretty much thought liberals mostly admit it. I could be wrong, but it's not likely. www.jimtraber.net/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?TID=65725OMG, Paul, you are so full of crap, and I'm pretty sure you're posting this stuff just to twist panties. I'll be swilling beer and setting off fireworks with everyone else.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 1, 2011 9:15:11 GMT -5
OMG, Paul, you are so full of crap, and I'm pretty sure you're posting this stuff just to twist panties.
I'll be swilling beer and setting off fireworks with everyone else. [/quote][/color] What is so wrong with being "full of crap" in the literal sense?? At least PBP doesn't crap all over anyone here, and some of my best buds are "Full of It".* .... this was one of the best threads here in the past few days next to mine (EVs are Coming) that was locked for being high jacked again.. *= Irish Blarney..
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 1, 2011 9:16:25 GMT -5
Nothing wrong with being full of crap. I find Paul amusing. I'd probably get a kick out of your friends, too.
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Post by privateinvestor on Jul 1, 2011 9:27:18 GMT -5
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 1, 2011 9:35:25 GMT -5
It's a message board, not life or death. Relax.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 1, 2011 10:12:31 GMT -5
Could we get a couple of flag smileys for the Holiday? Just for the political righties that post here. We are the only ones that need them
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jul 1, 2011 10:13:12 GMT -5
It shouldn't matter. This need to divide everyone into "us" and "them", "good guys" and "bad guys" is serving NO purpose. There's nothing anywhere that says the 4th of July ONLY belongs to republicans. It's an AMERICAN holiday. It's time for this conservative need to weed out any and everyone who doesn't believe like they do to stop. the 4th of July is an AMERICAN holiday.... not a conservative one. Agreed...K coming your way. But I do have one contention. The OP said Republican. Repubs have not been conservative for many, many years.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 1, 2011 10:25:00 GMT -5
the 4th of July is an American holiay. No matter how hard the Republicans try to exclude & remove anyone who doesn't believe the same as they do, it's still a holiday for ALL Americans. Live with it. Wow, you really gotta stop trying to say that the study shows the Republicans are trying to keep liberals from enjoying the celebration of our independence. The study shows that Democrat politicians don't benefit from it. The follow up poll I posted explains why: Democrats don't tend to feel very patriotic. I can't help it that a majority of Democrats don't identify with feelings of patriotism. I wish they would. I wish they'd join us in the joyus celebration of those wonderful priniciples outlined in our Declaration of Independence. I wish we agreed, that, But we don't agree. For the most part, these words strike fear in the heart of liberals because they suggest that there are legitimate reasons for throwing off tyranny, and they live in abject terror of the growing awakening in our nation of first principles. But hey- if I'm wrong, and we agree-- that's awesome! If you, too, want to celebrate with real Americans the geniune principles of our founding-- cool with me. But then, you wouldn't be a liberal, or a Democrat and so that would kinda make my point...
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Jul 1, 2011 10:28:15 GMT -5
Could we get a couple of flag smileys for the Holiday?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jul 1, 2011 11:06:30 GMT -5
Again, I just feel the need to reiterate this- the left can join us being patriotic and celebrating the Declaration at ANY time. The Independence Day celebrations ARE open to ALL of us. I cannot help it if the left bristles at the sight of the flag, if they denegrate patriotism as "flag waving jingoism" if they defend flag burning as legitimate "free speech". I can't help if who they are, and who they've allowed their movement to become is anti-American, and unpatriotic. I remember realizing there was a major patriotism gap when Clinton was elected- anyone remember the Ron Silver / Clinton Inaugeral moment of honesty? Then there's this little bit-- which I suspect a great many leftists agree with-- oh, yes, there's the obligatory "love of country" thrown in there, but anyone whose been a victim of the "oreo" method of criticism knows full well, that this is an excoriation of America because for the left- it's just so much easier to be negative and to tear down. The left doesn't give a shit about what Americans think in flyover country at their Independence Day parades, but let some Eurotrash rocker say something to the BBC and the lefties get embarassed and start apologizing for their country. The left really isn't patriotic. They really just do NOT love America as it was founded. They attack the founders (these boards, right now this is happening) and do everything they can to deny we have meaningful, valuable founding principles worth adhering to, they deny the Constitution's Enumerated Powers, they like "judicial review" over the literal interpretation of the law-- because they want to CHANGE the country. They don't like it. They're continually frustrated in their efforts to change it because our founding-- our Constitution, our culture, our religion-- all conflict with leftist aims. It drives them batty. Here's a nice little bit about why this sick, twisted leftist is not patriotic: www.progressive.org/mag/wx070208
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2011 11:35:39 GMT -5
Interesting, Paul. I'm going to post the story..
Why I’m Not Patriotic By Matthew Rothschild, July 2, 2008 (In memory of George Carlin.)
It’s July 4th again, a day of near-compulsory flag-waving and nation-worshipping. Count me out. Spare me the puerile parades. Don’t play that martial music, white boy. And don’t befoul nature’s sky with your F-16s. You see, I don’t believe in patriotism. It’s not that I’m anti-American, but I am anti-patriotic. Love of country isn’t natural. It’s not something you’re born with. It’s an inculcated kind of love, something that is foisted upon you in the home, in the school, on TV, at church, during the football game. Yet most people accept it without inspection. Why? For when you stop to think about it, patriotism (especially in its malignant morph, nationalism) has done more to stack the corpses millions high in the last 300 years than any other factor, including the prodigious slayer, religion. The victims of colonialism, from the Congo to the Philippines, fell at nationalism’s bayonet point. World War I filled the graves with the most foolish nationalism. And Hitler and Mussolini and Imperial Japan brought nationalism to new nadirs. The flags next to the tombstones are but signed confessions—notes left by the killer after the fact. The millions of victims of Stalin and Mao and Pol Pot have on their death certificates a dual diagnosis: yes communism, but also that other ism, nationalism. The whole world almost got destroyed because of nationalism during the Cuban Missile Crisis. The bloody battles in Serbia and Bosnia and Croatia in the 1990s fed off the injured pride of competing patriotisms and all their nourished grievances. In the last five years in Iraq, tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians have died because the United States, the patriarch of patriotism, saw fit to impose itself, without just cause, on another country. But the excuse was patriotism, wrapped in Bush’s brand of messianic militarism: that we, the great Americans, have a duty to deliver “God’s gift of freedom” to every corner of the world. And the Congress swallowed it, and much of the American public swallowed it, because they’ve been fed a steady diet of this swill. What is patriotism but “the narcissism of petty differences”? That’s Freud’s term, describing the disorder that compels one group to feel superior to another. Then there’s a little multiplication problem: Can every country be the greatest country in the world? This belief system magically transforms an accident of birth into some kind of blue ribbon. “It’s a great country,” said the old Quaker essayist Milton Mayer. “They’re all great countries.” At times, the appeal to patriotism may be necessary, as when harnessing the group to protect against a larger threat (Hitler) or to overthrow an oppressor (as in the anti-colonial struggles in the Third World). But it is always a dangerous toxin to play with, and it ought to be shelved with cross and bones on the label except in these most extreme circumstances. In an article called “Patriot Games” in the current issue of Time magazine (July 7), Peter Beinart, late of The New Republic, inspects his navel for seven pages and then throws the lint all around. “Conservatives are right,” he says. “To some degree, patriotism must mean loving your country for the same reason you love your family: simply because it is yours.” And then he criticizes, incoherently, the conservative love-it-or-leave-it types. The moral folly of his argument he himself exposes: “If liberals love America purely because it embodies ideals like liberty, justice, and equality, why shouldn’t they love Canada—which from a liberal perspective often goes further toward realizing those principles—even more? And what do liberals do,” he asks, “when those universal ideals collide with America’s self-interest? Giving away the federal budget to Africa would probably increase the net sum of justice and equality on the planet, after all. But it would harm Americans and thus be unpatriotic.” This is a straw man if I ever I saw one, but if the United States gave a lot more of its budget to eradicating poverty and disease in Africa and other parts of the developing world, it might actually make us all safer. At bottom, note how readily Beinart disposes of “liberty, justice, and equality.” He has stripped patriotism to its vacuous essence: Love your country because it’s yours. If we stopped that arm from reflexively saluting and concerned ourselves more with “universal ideals” than with parochial ones, we’d be a lot better off. We wouldn’t be in Iraq, we wouldn’t have besmirched ourselves at Guantanamo, we wouldn’t be acting like some Argentinean junta that wages illegal wars and tortures people and disappears them into secret dungeons. Love of country is a form of idolatry. Listen, if you would, to the wisdom of Milton Mayer, writing back in 1962 a rebuke to JFK for his much-celebrated line: “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.” Mayer would have none of it. “When Mr. Kennedy spoke those words at his inaugural, I knew that I was at odds with a society which did not immediately rebel against them,” he wrote. “They are the words of totalitarianism pure; no Jefferson could have spoken them, and no Khrushchev could have spoken them better. Could a man say what Mr. Kennedy said and also say that the difference between us and them is that they believe that man exists for the State and we believe that the State exists for man? He couldn’t, but he did. And in doing so, he read me out of society.” When Americans retort that this is still the greatest country in the world, I have to ask why. Are we the greatest country because we have 10,000 nuclear weapons? No, that just makes us enormously powerful, with the capacity to destroy the Earth itself. Are we the greatest country because we have soldiers stationed in more than 120 countries? No, that just makes us an empire, like the empires of old, only more so. Are we the greatest country because we are one-twentieth of the world’s population but we consume one-quarter of its resources? No, that just must makes us a greedy and wasteful nation. Are we the greatest country because the top 1 percent of Americans hoards 34 percent of the nation’s wealth, more than everyone in the bottom 90 percent combined? No, that just makes us a vastly unequal nation. Are we the greatest country because corporations are treated as real, live human beings with rights? No, that just enshrines a plutocracy in this country. Are we the greatest country because we take the best care of our people’s basic needs? No, actually we don’t. We’re far down the list on health care and infant mortality and parental leave and sick leave and quality of life. So what exactly are we talking about here? To the extent that we’re a great (not the greatest, mind you: that’s a fool’s game) country, we’re less of a great country today. Because those things that truly made us great—the system of checks and balances, the enshrinement of our individual rights and liberties—have all been systematically assaulted by Bush and Cheney. From the Patriot Act to the Military Commissions Act to the new FISA Act, and all the signing statements in between, we are less great today. From Abu Ghraib and Bagram Air Force Base and Guantanamo, we are less great today. From National Security Presidential Directive 51 (giving the Executive responsibility for ensuring constitutional government in an emergency) to National Security Presidential Directive 59 (expanding the collection of our biometric data), we are less great today. From the Joint Terrorism Task Forces to InfraGard and the Terrorist Liaison Officers, we are less great today. Admit it. We don’t have a lot to brag about today. It is time, it is long past time, to get over the American superiority complex. It is time, it is long past time, to put patriotism back on the shelf—out of the reach of children and madmen.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jul 1, 2011 11:43:01 GMT -5
But in the actual world of reality, it is now the right that hates the US government and all it stands for and some even urge second amendment solutions.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on Jul 1, 2011 11:47:26 GMT -5
The Tea Party even wants to repeal the 17th amendment, which grants us one of our most beloved rights...the power to vote who we think will best serve us,and instead return this power to the government.
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