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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2011 3:15:20 GMT -5
Put it all to a vote- 1) Single payer 2) Status quo 3) Ryan plan 4) 'Obamacare' 5) Public option #1 takes it by far. Wish we could. is this a vote on health care or a vote on the budget because one of these choices 3) does not belong with the rest of your health care choices . The Ryan plan is about the budget. Now if you would like to throw some budget plan options in there along with the Ryan plan that we could choose from that would be great but also kind of tough as no one else has one.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 27, 2011 5:18:55 GMT -5
Put it all to a vote- 1) Single payer 2) Status quo 3) Ryan plan 4) 'Obamacare' 5) Public option #1 takes it by far. Wish we could. is this a vote on health care or a vote on the budget because one of these choices 3) does not belong with the rest of your health care choices . The Ryan plan is about the budget. Now if you would like to throw some budget plan options in there along with the Ryan plan that we could choose from that would be great but also kind of tough as no one else has one. Very nicely put xmascookie.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2011 8:17:03 GMT -5
<<<Suffice it to say that these posters, whom we know well, have zero credibility, other than whenever their norms are seen we are on the alert for their juvenile trash talk and innuendo. In the end I suspect that most or all of them have some real issues in their "real" lives that causes such raw anger and frustration.>>> Dem, I usually read a thousand posts for every one I put up so I have a pretty good idea where everyone is coming from. So I have to ask you, how does judging someone as having "zero credibility" or saying they have issues in their real lives that causes raw anger and frustration which you have no way of knowing, help stop inflammatory posting ? It just seems like more of the same.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2011 8:27:52 GMT -5
Dem, I usually read a thousand posts for every one I put up so I have a pretty good idea where everyone is coming from. So I have to ask you, how does judging someone as having "zero credibility" or saying they have issues in their real lives that causes raw anger and frustration which you have no way of knowing, help stop inflammatory posting ? It just seems like more of the same.jma- you're right, those are judgements, but ones which I honestly believe. I am not attempting to be inflammatory, I am making a statement of fact in the former, and of personal belief in the latter. When a poster states that all liberals hate God, say, or all Republicans wish to enslave the world, I presume they do not literally mean it, and are simply roiling the waters. Agreed.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on May 27, 2011 9:19:15 GMT -5
As an aside to the main discussion. Re Revelations 7:1: Ms. mkitty obviously has little tolerance for metaphor. Although, for her edification, Christ refers to the Earth as an "orb" several times throughout the New Testament, and Psalms calls it an "orb" hundreds of years before that. Re Judges 1:19: Don't pull something while reaching, Ms. mkitty.
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on May 27, 2011 10:13:49 GMT -5
A note to the moderators: To be perfectly succinct, I am well past the point of being patient with posts like the one above. Now, I realize that "palmbeachpaul" was not the original author of those words, but his propensity for posting these sorts of politically bigoted and hateful articles is undeniably offensive to any liberal, and perhaps to some conservatives, as well. His actions may not have directly violated the terms of use, so I am not necessarily requesting moderator intervention, yet at the same time, I must express my total disgust and revulsion at having to see this kind of trash repeated here on this board. I normally keep a level head in political discussions, but in regards to seeing this type of offensive propaganda, that may very well change. I felt I should point out that I am as much offended by this article and it's reproduction here as I would be if I had been a victim of a racial slur. And yes, I honestly do feel that offended. Shirina, we seem to have a lot of people whose main interest here is ONLY to stir the pot.. who enjoy saying "ALL people of this group do/think/say ...whatever it might be"... to be honest, i'm sick of it too and i'm about to hit my limit. there is going to come a time, in the very near future i expect, where i develop a sudden zero tolerance policy. when i do, there will be people out the door permanently with no warning.
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ugonow
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Post by ugonow on May 27, 2011 10:23:05 GMT -5
Ditto heads is a term Rush calls his listeners and his listeners each other. It really does not infer what you may think. When they call in they usually start by praising Rush .The next caller often just dittos the salutation . In reality, it is not what it seems to be.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2011 10:46:28 GMT -5
Very few people posting this morning. Hard to post when the boss gives a message that some people are soon to be disappeared without warning. The political conversation is ABOUT differences. If EVERYBODY walked in lockstep to one idea there would be no politics to discuss. The conservatives on the board that are disliked are the ones that promote ideas of free speech which many in politics would like to silence. A politics board will go silent real quick if differences of opinion and ideas can't be spoken freely. If some folks don't like the politics of a political board I'm not sure why they post on a political board. It's not that difficult. If someone says something you don't like, or you think is a lie, post your opposition. Post your links about why you feel someone is lying, state your opinion, open the discussion. That's politics.
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b2r
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Post by b2r on May 27, 2011 11:00:35 GMT -5
DC Liberals Sign Petition to Ban Conservative Websites
After hearing news the other day that the Obama administration had appointed a new position to monitor and push back against negative online press we thought some liberals in DC might think it wasn't enough. So we sent Joe Schoffstall out to see just how far liberals would go to silence conservative speech. Joe went around Georgetown in DC with a petition to "Ban Conservative Hate Sites" that said this:
"The undersigned hereby adamantly demand that the United States government shut down right wing hate sites. The hate speech propagated by sites like the Drudge Report, Hot Air, Instapundit, Big Government, and others must not be allowed to corrupt our political discourse any longer. These sites are dangerous not only to truth and freedom but also to our society as a whole. BAN THEM NOW!"
That is pretty radical rhetoric that no reasonable, freedom-loving, red-blooded American could possibly agree with, right? Well, see for yourself:
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 27, 2011 11:03:11 GMT -5
Conservative Youtube film makers working over time.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 27, 2011 11:07:24 GMT -5
Very few people posting this morning. Hard to post when the boss gives a message that some people are soon to be disappeared without warning. The political conversation is ABOUT differences. If EVERYBODY walked in lockstep to one idea there would be no politics to discuss. The conservatives on the board that are disliked are the ones that promote ideas of free speech which many in politics would like to silence. A politics board will go silent real quick if differences of opinion and ideas can't be spoken freely. If some folks don't like the politics of a political board I'm not sure why they post on a political board. It's not that difficult. If someone says something you don't like, or you think is a lie, post your opposition. Post your links about why you feel someone is lying, state your opinion, open the discussion. That's politics. krickitt, there is a difference between intelligent discussion about differences of opinion, and what Paul's doing - insulting anyone and everyone that doesn't share his opinion. I'm absolutely with Shirina, I'm sick of it. I enjoy coming here for debate, discussion, and to read about things I might not have heard elsewhere in my day. I rarely click on Paul's threads anymore, because I don't care to be told I'm stupid, that I hate my country, and all sorts of other things that aren't true. someone pointed out - on this thread, I think? - that Paul's talked about a conservative board before. I remember that too. it's too bad he doesn't spend more time over there, where they can all pat each other on the back and compliment their respective genius opinions. I haven't quite figured out why he keeps slumming over here with those of us that are hell-bent on destroying the country.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 27, 2011 11:09:02 GMT -5
" The conservatives on the board that are disliked are the ones that promote ideas of free speech which many in politics would like to silence." ------------------------------------------------------------------- "Shirina, we seem to have a lot of people whose main interest here is ONLY to stir the pot.. who enjoy saying "ALL people of this group do/think/say ...whatever it might be"... to be honest, i'm sick of it too and i'm about to hit my limit. there is going to come a time, in the very near future i expect, where i develop a sudden zero tolerance policy. when i do, there will be people out the door permanently with no warning. " --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Shirina, This mod understands your frustration. These types of posts are not at all helpful to fostering meaningful debate, rather they do the opposite. However they are not against the CoC, and are thus allowable. Certain posters indulge in this sort of drivel quite frequently, as you know. Posters who speak in this manner demean themselves rather than those that they seek to disparage. This is unfortunate, because some of them actually seem rather intelligent, and could add cogent arguments if they chose to do so. Instead they babble meaninglessly about "evil" liberals who supposedly love terrorists and hate Israel. (even though the majority of American Jews are Democrats). Or they rant about "pubdupes" and "dittoheads" who supposedly enslave ordinary Americans. It all gets very tiring. Suffice it to say that these posters, whom we know well, have zero credibility, other than whenever their noms are seen we are on the alert for their juvenile trash talk and innuendo. In the end I suspect that most or all of them have some real issues in their "real" lives that causes such raw anger and frustration. " -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A note to the moderators: To be perfectly succinct, I am well past the point of being patient with posts like the one above. Now, I realize that "palmbeachpaul" was not the original author of those words, but his propensity for posting these sorts of politically bigoted and hateful articles is undeniably offensive to any liberal, and perhaps to some conservatives, as well. His actions may not have directly violated the terms of use, so I am not necessarily requesting moderator intervention, yet at the same time, I must express my total disgust and revulsion at having to see this kind of trash repeated here on this board. I normally keep a level head in political discussions, but in regards to seeing this type of offensive propaganda, that may very well change. I felt I should point out that I am as much offended by this article and it's reproduction here as I would be if I had been a victim of a racial slur. And yes, I honestly do feel that offended." ------------------------------------------------------------- I would suggest that there is a big difference in what the top post here claims and the response of the other three..actually not a response but what the first poster is referring to, and also suggest the poster of the first one, and some others too, just does not get it, the complaints of and dissatisfaction with the TONE of where the zone has gone. This is the best thread on this topic ,[ not the first time by the way] ever put up, IMHO. Possible less posting on it, more contemplating of what has been posted... If unable to comply, change, willing to, those who disagree with the ideas posted in the three last posts..might consider: ' There's a large boat leavingggg .... forrr... New Yooork..
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 27, 2011 11:14:17 GMT -5
My goodness! I've been working my butt off and haven't been around much, but it's nice to see others expressing the feelings I've had for awhile now. It really does get old to see the same posters babbling about what "all" of <insert disliked group here> think, feel, or do. It gets just as old to see these same posters telling us what's going to happen in the future; as though they had a crystal ball that defined all that for them. I can certainly understand Moon's frustration, and that of the moderators. There are ways to discuss things, and there are "board battles". There is a group of posters who seem to prefer the latter to the former, IMO.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 27, 2011 11:24:26 GMT -5
"" The conservatives on the board that are disliked are the ones that promote ideas of free speech which many in politics would like to silence." Not sure where that top quote comes from Dezi, but that wasn't what the other posts were discussing, so yes they have nothing to do with each other. Weird statement though. Promote ideas of free speech? Why not just support free speech instead of the idea of it? My favorite posters on this board conservative, liberal and otherwise tend to speak of their opinions instead of parrot others and are light on inflammatory talk, etc. Sometimes the names meant to be inflammatory are so funny its hard to take offense. Obama regime. Who knew some crazy people thought a regime could be elected? When I think of regimes I think of dictators, not a country where no President can serve more than two terms. But I guess it goes with PBP's other faves His Excellency Barack Obama and His Highness Obama.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 27, 2011 11:29:07 GMT -5
The quote is Krickitt's, optimist. Personally, I have to wonder why someone would think they were disliked by anonymous posters on a message board. We don't really know one another, so how in the heck are we going to dislike one another. I might not like something someone says, but that isn't the same as disliking the person. If it seems that way to you, you're probably taking message boards very much too seriously.
Edit to clarify: The "you" I refer to in the last sentence is a generic "you".
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 27, 2011 11:50:14 GMT -5
Actually I think it is quite possible for posters to be disliked on a message board. YM on MSN used to be very harsh especially to first time posters.
Some posters think they are disliked when they are not and others who act abrasive most of the time don't seem to care one way or the other. I don't dislike Krickitt in spite of the fact our beliefs don't intersect that often. There are posters here I rarely read because its the same old same old and others I read in spite of the fear mongering. Must be a love of train wrecks from the old YM on MSN. LOL.
ETD: Deleted last sentence of post as useless.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 27, 2011 11:55:06 GMT -5
The quote is Krickitt's, optimist. Personally, I have to wonder why someone would think they were disliked by anonymous posters on a message board. We don't really know one another, so how in the heck are we going to dislike one another. I might not like something someone says, but that isn't the same as disliking the person. If it seems that way to you, you're probably taking message boards very much too seriously. Edit to clarify: The "you" I refer to in the last sentence is a generic "you". Correct on who's post, but I didn't want to get into a identyfication of , as a pick on some one. I thought the post alone was enough to show the differences in out look. Trying to stay out of it personally, as then bring other things into it but the original post of unhappiness as to where the zone has gone says it best from my standpoint and shows the seriousness of the tone the zone has gone to that has turned off many, just been taken over with it, so what is to be done about it. "FYI Krickitt, my least favorite poster on Proboards does not post on P&M." , She doesn't??
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2011 12:10:50 GMT -5
What do you MEAN "what is to be done about it?" Look at the board. I'm here because I like to settle in places, and change is hard for me. But I don't see Ed, Paul, Henry, Marsha. I have no idea where any of them are, but the board is very quiet and I can't find a discussion to take part in. It is the sound of political silence, a dead board. I don't like it, but I guess some might.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 27, 2011 12:13:46 GMT -5
Actually I think it is quite possible for posters to be disliked on a message board. YM on MSN used to be very harsh especially to first time posters. Some posters think they are disliked when they are not and others who act abrasive most of the time don't seem to care one way or the other. I don't dislike Krickitt in spite of the fact our beliefs don't intersect that often. There are posters here I rarely read because its the same old same old and others I read in spite of the fear mongering. Must be a love of train wrecks from the old YM on MSN. LOL. FYI Krickitt, my least favorite poster on Proboards does not post on P&M. I guess mileage varies. I can't dislike anyone I don't know, and I don't know anyone here. I might not agree with someone's views, but that has no bearing on how I might feel about them as a person, if I knew them. I've got lots of friends who have very different views from mine, but we can still have a great time together.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 27, 2011 12:16:31 GMT -5
What do you MEAN "what is to be done about it?" Look at the board. I'm here because I like to settle in places, and change is hard for me. But I don't see Ed, Paul, Henry, Marsha. I have no idea where any of them are, but the board is very quiet and I can't find a discussion to take part in. It is the sound of political silence, a dead board. I don't like it, but I guess some might. Frankly, I'm enjoying the conversations currently taking place. Deltaman's return was a real bonus to my day! This thread is interesting and allows a good exchange of views; especially, if nobody is here to try to turn it into a "shooting match". While you might find the lack of constant contention boring, I find it a good chance to look a bit deeper into people than just their political outlook. Different strokes for different folks.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 27, 2011 12:18:00 GMT -5
What do you MEAN "what is to be done about it?" Look at the board. I'm here because I like to settle in places, and change is hard for me. But I don't see Ed, Paul, Henry, Marsha. I have no idea where any of them are, but the board is very quiet and I can't find a discussion to take part in. It is the sound of political silence, a dead board. I don't like it, but I guess some might. Frankly, I'm enjoying the conversations currently taking place. Deltaman's return was a real bonus to my day! This thread is interesting and allows a good exchange of views; especially, if nobody is here to try to turn it into a "shooting match". While you might find the lack of constant contention boring, I find it a good chance to look a bit deeper into people than just their political outlook. Different strokes for different folks. mmhmm....I enjoy that too. I'm just sick of the sideways comments and attitudes coming from posters with extreme opinions on both sides. some are definitely louder than others.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2011 12:21:44 GMT -5
I find nothing interesting about a thread that has become a condemnation of Paul because of his article, his personality, pretty much everything about Paul. I don't find that to be an interesting political conversation.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 27, 2011 12:23:47 GMT -5
As am I, chiver. There's absolutely no sense to be found in verbally attacking someone you don't even know because they don't think the way you have decided they should think. There are some here who seem to wish to make that a condition of posting. I refuse to go along. I know damned well it's possible to have an intelligent conversation without snide innuendo and veiled insults ... even with people with whom one may not agree. Heck, I do it all the time! I'm a westerner living in South Carolina! ;D
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 27, 2011 12:26:00 GMT -5
Paul, krickitt? This thread isn't about paul. Paul is just another poster. We're not all gathered here to discuss him.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 27, 2011 12:39:05 GMT -5
I find nothing interesting about a thread that has become a condemnation of Paul because of his article, his personality, pretty much everything about Paul. I don't find that to be an interesting political conversation. This thread has not become a condemnation of Paul and it is sad that you see it as one. I mocked several of Paul's favorite phrases but I didn't mock him. Krickitt how can you say you love free speech when you seem to be OK with your fave conservative posters mocking and making up names for liberals, democrats, and any disliked other but don't seem to allow us to say these phrases are incorrect or over the top without accusing us of attacking them personally? What's up with that? BTW, this is massive hyperbole "pretty much everything about Paul".
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2011 12:44:10 GMT -5
Who doesn't allow who what?? I don't see liberals being banned, chastised, anything else because conservatives are whining to mods. Do you? Show me where board conservatives are trying to stifle free speech.
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Post by privateinvestor on May 27, 2011 12:52:14 GMT -5
As am I, chiver. There's absolutely no sense to be found in verbally attacking someone you don't even know because they don't think the way you have decided they should think. There are some here who seem to wish to make that a condition of posting. I refuse to go along. I know damned well it's possible to have an intelligent conversation without snide innuendo and veiled insults ... even with people with whom one may not agree. Heck, I do it all the time! I'm a westerner living in South Carolina! ;D mmhmm...Does this mean you will no longer be using anymore of your snide remarks and veiled innuendos.. Somehow I find that hard to believe because they were NOT veiled very well, i.e "dense" "idiot' and etc.. or is this a case of selected memory again??
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 27, 2011 12:56:15 GMT -5
What do you MEAN "what is to be done about it?" Look at the board. I'm here because I like to settle in places, and change is hard for me. But I don't see Ed, Paul, Henry, Marsha. I have no idea where any of them are, but the board is very quiet and I can't find a discussion to take part in. It is the sound of political silence, a dead board. I don't like it, but I guess some might. It's early yet , plenty of topics, new political ones and foreign to posted, yet your saying, if I read it correctly, if the ones you specifically mentioned by NIC are absent, you have no one to post with? If so suggest think PMing. Since you seem to agree with what ever their views are on topics, beyond just patting on the fanny, giving those Karmas and thumbs up to what ever ideas and thoughts they are espousing, forgetting what they are continually pushing, your saying that is all that makes you comfortable here, staying with self types? Possible if alone for a while, try looking and conversing with a mirror. Seriously, again your not getting it. It is the taking over by one side and that side not discussing intelligently, constructively and allowing others to express their views with out dissing and downing any thoughts on the topic, and using the zone to propagate their own dislikes of some, particularly one individual. The excuse given when that is brought up is "Well I had to go through that when B..yadda, yadda, ' and most of us were not here[old here] when that happened and want more now, but aren't allowed more because of the actions of a few. As much and as clear as it is explained to you , your refusal to understand that , no consideration given to the feelings of those others , as you continue to fight for what is not wanted here, even those in charge having expressed disdain for what the zone is becoming, yet you don't even consider the feelings of those who hold your cyber life here in their hands. Basically your giving those exulted ones as well as the rest of us the proverbial bird. Do I have to explain the proverbial bird to you? If so, think the peace smiley here, just take away one of the fingers. Yep that's the proverbial bird.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on May 27, 2011 12:56:25 GMT -5
Don't use it, P.I. If I have something to say to you, I'll say it clearly. There will be nothing veiled about it. Krickitt can vouch for that. We've posted together for years.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 27, 2011 12:59:03 GMT -5
I think you have to go back to the ideas presented in the OP, which are difficult, if not impossible to refute. All of liberalism is rooted in the mutually exclusive ideas that a broad swath of humanity is not fit for self government, but that a few 'special' people are. It is rooted in a very deeply held believe that the winners in life are chosen at random, or worse- are chosen on purpose by God, or by a populace too stupid to recognize that they're making decisions against their own interests. And of course the solution is to "equalize" things; to make things "fair" and that the only arbiter of what is fair is an all-powerful central government.
They talk a good game. You can get liberals to agree that there should be a such thing as free speech so long as it is pornographic- or at least vulgar, and that they basically agree with it. You can get them to join the leave me alone coalition on drugs and abortion-- but never education, automobiles, or even light bulbs.
But the essential premise of the left, is the essential premise of tyrannical statism of any stripe-- it is that there are people who know best, and as such these wise masters should ultimately become the owners of all private property, and should distribute it as they see fit. They should control everyone so that nobody takes a unless it's on an approved toilet, and nothing goes into a text book they disagree with, and they are NOT to be criticized, or they will take control of the means of communication and shut it down.
These points are not arguable- liberals may find ways to justify them, and argue for these ideas-- but we're way past the point where the left can deny what it thinks any longer.
As I'm fond of saying: We see you. Barack Obama has swooped in and taken the mask off the left. They thought this great financial crisis was going to be the final blow to capitalism, and that the nation that voted for hope and change was really FINALLY after all these years seeing the light, and embracing Obama's brand of far left radicalism.
The rebellion they got wasn't the one they were counting on. Because this isn't Greece, or France. This is the United States. We snapped back to our roots, and the TEA Party grew up organically and without any central command, with a simple, clear message: Leave us the hell alone and STOP spending our money.
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