ameiko
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Post by ameiko on May 21, 2011 1:01:44 GMT -5
You really ranted away and so much of your ranting was so poorly thought outIf I were you Mr. deziloooooo, I would be glad someone had addressed me directly in such an articulate, informed and professional manner. That is very kind to say, thank you. I admit that I can get a little over the top at times (my "shouting: in caps) but when you are dealing with some people here.... There are some people here who I disagree with but I think are rational. Sometimes people make excellent points and I concede them or bring forth some information that I was not aware of. I like it. But there are those here who just refuse to see reality and ignore anything that challenges it. I'm kinda tired of it all, might take another break; my attitude about many on this planet has just grown poorer because they keep acting like savages and worse want to spread that around the world. It's a sick time and to see the President endorse these people truly sickens me just as it sickems me that we did not immediately settle whether Obama was a US citizen. Whether you are a birther or not, that was a BIG DEAL: even if it's just a few whack jobs, doesn't it make sense to make sure the guy running for President can in fact run, especially when it should be so easy to verify? Instead we have people dismiss this. Sure, it didn't seem probable but it's the law and the Constitution. Nothing should be more important. Produce the birthcertificate and then laugh at the sillt people. Instead, for three years we had an arrogant stonewalling by an arrogant man. Why? Even if Obama is a US citizen, that he felt that he was above the law and did not need to satisfy it with proof, as WELL as the supporters and the MSM who walked lockstep with that makes me wonder, "what the heck is wrong with all of you?" Acknowlege and move on, don't let things drag out. Anyway, getting late. Good night all.
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burnsattornincan
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Post by burnsattornincan on May 21, 2011 1:27:34 GMT -5
Mr. ameiko, I remember you from the MSN Money board and we talked about gold and how it related to paper money, and all that stuff. Time flies.
Yes, you are right about the birther subject. There is no denying the person holding your highest position has a sketchy past at least. I can't begin to imagine the discontent with Bush when the electorate chose a candidate with clear Muslim ties right in the midst of fighting two wars against people of that following. It goes to show how money can buy an outcome, Obama was accepting poor people's last 10 dollars over the internet. This is why the US must move toward publicly funded elections like here in Canada. /Dalton
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 21, 2011 1:32:33 GMT -5
From Ameiko: "Thus, Bibi went to the Senate and US Congress hoping that might be more trustworthy"From Dezilroo: He's playing with our politics,AND OBAMA IS PLAYING WITH THEIR SECURITY AND YOU STILL REFUSE TO ADDRESS THAT!!! If someone goes after you, you go after them . Obama went after Israel and its leader went after him admittedly in a far lesser manner. You are being an abject hypocrite! He's not against Israel, just that this status quo for another 50 years, just won't fly and he was trying to get the talks off the snide.The how do you explain him helping to depose the tolerant Egyptian ruler for the Muslim brotherhood AND cutting the legs out from Israel prior to negotiations? Or his comments that it's the right of every nation "to defend itself, by itself." He has clearly stated that he will not help defend Israel, our ally, if genocidal forces try to sweep into their nation. From Ameiko where you think he can do no wrong and that anyone who criticizes is somehow unworthy."From Dezil: He can and has done things wrong...but to do the 'obama sucks because..." I'll leave that up to you.In other words, you stick your fingers in your ears like a child and sing, "nah nah, I can't hear you" because you do not want to hear the relevant FACTS that Obama lied to the Jewish people and Israel about his support. Bibi, knowing he can thus not trust Obama, has sought instead to go to Congress to see their stance; it's a smart thing to know who your allies are and clearly Obama is not. You do not undercut your allies, especially against people who want to kill them. From Ameiko: "I do know that among the people there are the pro-Jihad and anti-Israel Muslim brotherhood as well as those who think the best way to celebrate is to gang rape a woman nearly to death."From Dezil: Yep true, part of the 80 million, and you wanted to send in the Marines??WHERE DID I SAY TO SEND IN THE MARINES?!?! This is typical of Obama supports: make things up to evade the issue. I simple show that these people are untrustworthy savages who we should not help into power. DUh! From Ameiko: "Obama has ZERO reason to mistreat a longtime US ally who has helped to bring stability to the region and, yes, DID "throw him under the bus"From Dezil: Again, your solution, the Marines? We 2500 off shore on one of the Hello/invasion carriers..send them in, and then what?? Your ranting my friend.And AGAIN you evade the question by making things up! You simply can not defend your boy (OMG, is that racist?) Obama. "by refusing to mind his own business" Can't do it, we are the US of America, the President can't stay quiet. China, they can remain silent. Russia, they too..but we, can't stay quiet, just the way it is.Of course he can. Just as he is quiet when the Palestinians attack Israel every day or China suppresses its people, or Christians are savaged by Muslims or people in Iran rise up against a Muslim theocracy: OBAMA SAYS NOTHING!!! From Ameiko: "If he has to have spoken those words, he should have done so when a known US enemy was slaughtering their people, i.e. Iran"From Dezil: We have zero, zilch influence with Iran, With someone who Iranian friends, I can tell you this isn't true. Knowing that America is there, perhaps even willing to send help to the rebels, could have helped the cause, rally more to the protesters, and help them stand stronger. But Obama only wants to topple non Muslim nations. Don't believe me? His actions prove it! "I would suggest attack " Who?? They do attack those who fire the rockets, those who lead them, those who plan the killings , but that is a few in #'s so who are they to attack.Given that the people voted in Hamas, those who vow attacks on Israel, there are many attackers, planners, and many more who support them. I say attack anywhere that rockets come from. Levels those homes and towns from where the rockets rain. If "innocent" Palestinians die because they let their homes be used (or were forced to by the people they elected to power), then their karma did them in because they went along with evil and indeed we see that the people in that "nation" supports attacks on Israel and empowers those attacks. "Israel needs a friend and sadly Obama's America is not it. Obama claims he wants democracy in the Middle East yet undercuts the sole democracy in that region in favor of terrorists. " He still has the US support, Obamas support Listen to his speech and then tell me that he supports Israel. Look at his assisting the removal of the tolerant Mubarak and then tell me he supports Israel. , as well as the $3 Bill per, just that the Pres says the status quo is not working, especially under the new Middle east...he wants them to see what they can come up with..the "67" borders...well lets see what Bibbi comes up with, but if he is going to come up with little Arab Ghettos spread around the west bank surrounded by Israeli settlements , not a viable Stat, then we need to know that, because that is not going to work .Bibi has already shown how it's NOT going to work and indeed schooled Obama today. I hate to see a US President be taken down like that but Obama brought it upon himself. What is not going to work is giving concessions to a genocidal people who has broken their word. What is not going to work is to encourage their terrorism while punishing Israel which has shown incredible restraint. What is not going to work is returning to borders that Israel says can not be defended nor will allowing Jewish settlements to be isolated within Arab territories. Whatever claims the Palestinians have they have lost by fleeing their homeland rather than defending it when the other Arab nations attacked as well as their continues assaults on Israel. You really ranted away and so much of your ranting was so poorly thought out, all emotion, so little thought given ...That would mean something if you had a single coherent thought or had been able to answer (let alone counter) a single point I made. Instead you evade and make claims that Obama's words and actions as well as the actions of Palestine does not support. You are right the status quo can not remain but you are for the status quo: more concessions which have NEVER worked! I feel bad for you Dezil, I truly do. Well I can scratch you off my response list like Lakhota and many others. Well I may respond but it's not to change your minds but bring facts and rationality to the readers of these threads. I will never change your minds until you are ready to listen and by dismissing the facts and quotes I bring to the table, such as Obama's outright lies and reversals with regards to Israel, among many other topics, you are as closed minded as the Palestinians. "helping to depose the tolerant Egyptian ruler for the Muslim brotherhood " The Egyptian people and the sitting out of it , the demonstrtions, of the Egyptian Military , that is whatn brought down Mubarak. Where do you get the tolerant..for Mubarak?? You have to be kidding, a benevolent ruler?? "Obama went after Israel and its leader " He stated what he feels is needed to be done for a two State solution between the two parties, In his mind , the status quo is not the answer. You might feel it is, I agree with the POTUS, it isn't , and with the the new events happening in the middle east, I see the possibility of another uprising. You might feel so be it , the Israeli's will crush it. I feel they would crush it, but I feel it will be even bloodier then before, ending any chance of a settlement and who knows what suffering, both sides. I know you are a brave one, ready to suggest the worse, I have seen it, it isn't pretty, am really worried it will be that way again. "Or his comments that it's the right of every nation "to defend itself, by itself" Here again you misinterpreted his words, he was saying that Israel needs to be strong enough to be able to defend itself against any aggressor by themselves , meaning they will get more arms, no one in the region WILL be allowed to be stronger then they, and even in a combination of forces against them, Israel Must have the advantage in military might to be able to win. He also said, you never brought this up, that the Palastinian state has to be demiliterized, which to this old grunt means no military aircraft to speak of, possible some helo for rescue andsuch, no artillery of any consequence, possible some types of Mortars, no armor beyond, my thinking, some light troop type vehickles, small arms naturally, they have them now but a military force, no. Palastinians arent happy about that, and I don't know how they wiould handle the rockets and missles that Hamas has. In other words he is giving Israel the go ahead to arm themselves as they see fit and the US as their main supplier of outside arms, they do very well themselves with their own arms industries, there will be little hold back on needed arms. {They are one of the first nations getting the F-35 fighter after our selves, not sure you know that.} "WHERE DID I SAY TO SEND IN THE MARINES?!?!' Then how in hell are we to keep Mubarak in power if we didn't use armed force, Marines, girls scouts, brownies, your choice. "He has clearly stated that he will not help defend Israel, our ally, if genocidal forces try to sweep into their nation." Never said anything even resembling that, said US and Israel are in a special relationship, we are, and the freedom of Israel is a paramount concern and of importance to the US. Israel has never asked for US troops to defend them and only in the gulf war, the Patriot missles were US troops in country , they , Israeli's had no one trained to use the damn things. I am not sure but I beleive they have purchased some batteries and have been trained in their use since. The new anti missle protection that is aimed toward Gaza, I believe that is a US weapon, not sure but it was mentioned so I am guess ing it is ours, not sure if it's crewed by us, don't think so, or by the Israeli's, think so. You have this habit of saying things that are said and are never said. "Just as he is quiet when the Palestinians attack Israel every day or China suppresses its people, or Christians are savaged by Muslims or people in Iran rise up against a Muslim theocracy: OBAMA SAYS NOTHING!!!" He and his people have been vocal on all those events, including China. At times they do it in diplomatic speak, see China, special relations, but the human rights abuses are mentioned, meeting with the dali Lami, p the Chinese off there too, our Arms to Taiwan, another p contest, and for those like Iran, nothing to lose , less diplomatic tones are used. If your having a problem with the diplomatic tones , well thats how nations who are friendly communicate unlike the personal disses you are throwing my way, why I haven't a clue. You disagree with my ideas and thoughts so be it but I am not doing personals on you , why me? "You are being an abject hypocrite!" "you stick your fingers in your ears like a child and sing, "nah nah, I can't hear you" there are a few more of your ideas here.. "Bibi has already shown how it's NOT going to work and indeed schooled Obama today' How did you get that conclusion, it's not going to work,. Because he said so? I didn't see him school Obama..I do see possible if status quo continues..nothing done , if Obama wins in 2012, Bibi as you call him still in power, doing the same, possible when the $3 Bill comes up, it's been spent else where. You say never. I say there are a lot of Pubs in support of Israel but also concerned and questioning the need for these precious $ going over seas as they have, even to our great friend Israel. Now that is just my thought, probably never happen... OK we done now..
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on May 21, 2011 1:32:43 GMT -5
desi says: I'm kinda tired of it all, might take another break; my attitude about many on this planet has just grown poorer because they keep acting like savages and worse want to spread that around the world. Yeah, Thanks for confirming my fears. I've noticed a rise in that sort of behavior myself. I don't call it savage, though it is that and more. I call it warlike. Cowardly warlike because it is directed mostly at innocent people, where honorably warlike would be to pick military targets and go after them as honest, , , and honorably identifiable military people would be proud to do. Maybe that's why Netanyahu told Obama to shove it. . . . . . That IS what he told Obama, wasn't it? Shove it?. . . In diplomat-speak of course, but no matter the language, even say in white gloves, with a top hat, black tie and tails, the old middle finger salute is still a middle finger salute. As for spreading it around the world, I have a notion their dreams of grandiosity may be a bit of an over-reach. In particular I think Israel will continue to prove to be a tougn bump in that road. Their hundred year plan may take a while longer.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 21, 2011 1:42:32 GMT -5
I said "I'm kinda tired of it all, might take another break; my attitude about many on this planet has just grown poorer because they keep acting like savages and worse want to spread that around the world." Geez Henry, I don't recall that, got a link?
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on May 21, 2011 6:16:26 GMT -5
desi wrote: Geez Henry, I don't recall that, got a link? Nope, I sure don't. Not any more at least. But if anybody else ever reads this, I hope they'll look at the edit stamps and notice the time sequence of the edits. It may look bulletproof to you desi, but there will always be that little niggler in people's minds that one of us thinks we're too smart to get caught. I'll leave it at that, desi.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 21, 2011 7:31:14 GMT -5
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on May 21, 2011 8:02:01 GMT -5
Better read that closely bills. The play on words is key to the entire snopes disclaimer. They preserve their integrity, if they have any integrity to preserve, by simply playing on words. They never do dispute the bottom line.
Not only can neither of the Obamas practice law in Illinois, they can't even certify a lowly Bill of Sale on an automobile, and in both cases they gave up that right rather than defend it when their conduct had brought their varacity as lawyers under question.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 21, 2011 8:12:49 GMT -5
... Not only can neither of the Obamas practice law in Illinois, they can't even certify a lowly Bill of Sale on an automobile ... Bet it breaks their hearts that these two millionaires, currently the President of the United States of America and the First Lady of the United States of America can't certify a Bill of Sale.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 21, 2011 8:20:05 GMT -5
desi wrote: Geez Henry, I don't recall that, got a link? Nope, I sure don't. Not any more at least. But if anybody else ever reads this, I hope they'll look at the edit stamps and notice the time sequence of the edits. It may look bulletproof to you desi, but there will always be that little niggler in people's minds that one of us thinks we're too smart to get caught. I'll leave it at that, desi. As you know I was being facetious Henry, I never made that statement as you know, and why would you post that I did?
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 21, 2011 8:36:55 GMT -5
forgetting H's whatever...so as I sit here with my first cup of cupa..real good this Am I have to say.. You all are insinuating, telling me that now that the birther one comes to a close, except for the most die hard and the deeply mentally impaired..the new one is , "They surrendered their Law Licenses..WHY? To see if there was any negative reasions...we are BLOCKED.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2011 9:17:42 GMT -5
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 21, 2011 9:49:20 GMT -5
sorry but... no se habla video's
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 21, 2011 10:03:13 GMT -5
Krickett, sorry couldn't watch the videos... There are a lot of maps of what is happening in the territories, as you put up links, I will too. If you scroll and click on, you will see what has been going down there as far as settlements and breaking up the territory so Israelis, even if a State was formwed for the Palastinians, you can see, if signed as the AIsraelis would like, the Palastinian State would be broken up into little enclaves , surropunded by israeli settlements, defended by Israeli military, not really a viable State. This gives the Israseli's the best security for themselves, however, to expect this would be a viable State for anyone...they have to be kidding. Possible not back to the 1967 borders exactly but if this is the settlement the Israeli government feel is correct...well ... domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/vMapswww.ifamericansknew.org/history/maps.htmlthelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/07/the-west-bank-archipelago/
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 21, 2011 10:17:32 GMT -5
Heres a old, 2004, article , but in a way, it pertains to today, 2011 as much as it did then, to me anyway.
Author gave a time line of possible five years before Palastinians might finally sit down and..Israli's too , can't have only one at the table. I read it , while there may have been a suggestion of a time line, one can't hold these things, suggesterd times to a happening to the exact minute, second, and now we may have to go through a bit more of attempts to gain what is wanted. See election of in October on the West Bank, a try at recognition of a Palastinian State in September at the UN, and naturally lots of rhetoric, see Israeli PM rejection, the POTUS suggestions of..have to be played out , and after it is, possible then they will sit down and try and work it out. Status quo, possible for a bit more but to be forever and a day, just not going to be. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
August 2, 2004
Israel's Intifada Victory By Charles Krauthammer
washingtonpost.com Friday, June 18, 2004; Page A29
While no one was looking, something historic happened in the Middle East. The Palestinian intifada is over, and the Palestinians have lost.
For Israel, the victory is bitter. The past four years of terrorism have killed almost 1,000 Israelis and maimed thousands of others. But Israel has won strategically. The intent of the intifada was to demoralize Israel, destroy its economy, bring it to its knees, and thus force it to withdraw and surrender to Palestinian demands, just as Israel withdrew in defeat from southern Lebanon in May 2000.
That did not happen. Israel's economy was certainly wounded, but it is growing again. Tourism had dwindled to almost nothing at the height of the intifada, but tourists are returning. And the Israelis were never demoralized. They kept living their lives, the young people in particular returning to cafes and discos and buses just hours after a horrific bombing. Israelis turned out to be a lot tougher and braver than the Palestinians had imagined.
The end of the intifada does not mean the end of terrorism. There was terrorism before the intifada and there will be terrorism to come. What has happened, however, is an end to systematic, regular, debilitating, unstoppable terror -- terror as a reliable weapon. At the height of the intifada, there were nine suicide attacks in Israel killing 85 Israelis in just one month (March 2002). In the past three months there have been none.
The overall level of violence has been reduced by more than 70 percent. How did Israel do it? By ignoring its critics and launching a two-pronged campaign of self-defense.
First, Israel targeted terrorist leaders -- attacks so hypocritically denounced by Westerners who, at the same time, cheer the hunt for, and demand the head of, Osama bin Laden. The top echelon of Hamas and other terrorist groups has been either arrested, killed or driven underground. The others are now so afraid of Israeli precision and intelligence -- the last Hamas operative to be killed by missile was riding a motorcycle -- that they are forced to devote much of their time and energy to self-protection and concealment.
Second, the fence. Only about a quarter of the separation fence has been built, but its effect is unmistakable. The northern part is already complete, and attacks in northern Israel have dwindled to almost nothing.
This success does not just save innocent lives; it changes the strategic equation of the whole conflict.
Yasser Arafat started the intifada in September 2000, just weeks after he had rejected, at Camp David, Israel's offer of withdrawal, settlement evacuation, sharing of Jerusalem and establishment of a Palestinian state. Arafat wanted all that, of course, but without having to make peace and recognize a Jewish state. Hence the terror campaign -- to force Israel to give it all up unilaterally.
Arafat failed, spectacularly. The violence did not bring Israel to its knees. Instead, it created chaos, lawlessness and economic disaster in the Palestinian areas. The Palestinians know the ruin that Arafat has brought, and they are beginning to protest it. He promised them blood and victory; he delivered on the blood.
Even more important, they have lost their place at the table. Israel is now defining a new equilibrium that will reign for years to come -- the separation fence is unilaterally drawing the line that separates Israelis and Palestinians. The Palestinians were offered the chance to negotiate that frontier at Camp David and chose war instead. Now they are paying the price.
It stands to reason. It is the height of absurdity to launch a terrorist war against Israel, then demand the right to determine the nature and route of the barrier built to prevent that very terrorism.
These new strategic realities are not just creating a new equilibrium, they are creating the first hope for peace since Arafat officially tore up the Oslo accords four years ago. Once Israel has withdrawn from Gaza and has completed the fence, terrorism as a strategic option will be effectively dead. The only way for the Palestinians to achieve statehood and dignity, and to determine the contours of their own state, will be to negotiate a final peace based on genuine coexistence with a Jewish state.
It could be a year, five years or a generation until the Palestinians come to that realization. The pity is that so many, Arab and Israeli, will have had to die before then.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2011 10:35:57 GMT -5
The Palestinian people are under the thumb of Hamas. Talk to Hamas if you don't like the way things are. There is NO WAY Israel is going to deal with a terrorist group whose mission is to kill Jews and eliminate Israel. No one in their right mind could expect that. How serious is the opposition if they form alliances with terrorists?? No way. I stand with Israel.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 21, 2011 10:54:11 GMT -5
Glad you are but if you think that the status quo is going to be the way it is..forever and a day, not going to happen.
By the way, a point was made ,.. Palestinians always break agreements by attacks on..not true.
There has been a peaceful dealing with Israel by Fatah, West bank, President is Abbas, since the break with Hamas some years ago. Even the Israeli's have praised them , up to the get together with Hamas as a united front for Statehood. Possible isolated attack by some one from the West Bank, though Fatah security is very good, many Palestinians jailed by them, not the Israeli's and for those who might bring up the isolated, the same comes from individual groups of Israeli settlers against Palestinians when they get into the mood, which is NOT the policy of the Israeli Government.
S happens at times, but over all, very peaceful interaction between the two, so they do hold to their arrangements, not constantly breaking them was stated, insinuated.
PS, Palastinians are not under the thumb of Hamas, Hamas has been under the gun , criticized by many, the youth of the Palastinians are saying that the split of the two parties is to end , and as much as I believe the leadership would have liked to keep that status quo, they saw the hand righting on the wall and with the help of the Egyptians, mended some fences, for now, for how long, time will tell. Millions of Palastinians do not support Hamas. It will be interesting to see what comes out in the elections in October.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2011 10:55:02 GMT -5
By Muhammad Oweiweih HEBRON (Ma'an) -- Police identified the remains of a 20-year-old woman found in a well near Hebron on Friday, over a year after her disappearance. Her uncle and three other relatives were detained and questioned. Police told Ma'an on Sunday that the death was an honor killing, to which her uncle confessed, and revealed the grim details about the woman's murder. Local prosecutor Ashraf Mash'al identified the woman as Ayah Ibrahim Barad'iyya from the southern West Bank town of Surif. Her body was found in a deserted well by Israel's separation wall in fields three kilometers from her home. It took two days to retrieve her remains from the well. Mash'al said the woman was wearing a necklace inscribed with her name, and that a handbag containing personal documents was also retrieved from the well. The facts of the case were "shocking," director of Hebron police Ramadan Awad told Ma'an. "As we interrogated her uncle, the people in the room could hardly hold back tears." According to Awad, Ibrahim Baradh’iyya and his wife reported their daughter missing in 2010 saying she had left home on April 20, heading to Hebron University where she was studying, but never returned. They said they feared she had been kidnapped, and wondered if she had run away. Classmates described the young woman, an English major, as "chaste and noble-minded," in her second year of university. Investigators found students liked and respected her. Several witnesses and friends had been summoned during the investigation, Awad said, including one man who had proposed marriage to Ayah and spoken with her family. The young man had been summoned, and was interrogated for 35 days. According to the man, Ayah had been in love with him, and he with her. He had sent his relatives to visit her parents, trying to win them over in an effort to propose marriage, but the family had refused. "Police never stopped their investigation" the Awad said, noting that the case ran cold until Friday when police were notified that a body was floating in a well near Surif. "Police and the prosecutor general, civil defense crews and an ambulance headed out to the area and retrieved the body. It took two days to retrieve all of the parts from the well," Awad said. Awad said they found the body in the 30 cubic meters of water at the bottom of the unused well. Police also found a handbag with Ayah's identity card, clothing and two photos of brothers studying in the Ukraine. "Once we had identified the remains, we summoned several suspects," the police director said. One of the suspects was Ayah’s 37-year-old uncle. He admitted that he murdered Ayah with help of three friends. A confession "On Tuesday, 20 April 2010, when Ayah was heading to Hebron University, we took her in the trunk. She was shouting loudly, so one of my friends sprayed her with gas and she fainted. I drove to the Khallat Salman area where we tied a rope around her body and dropped her into the well," Ayah's uncle told Awad. Before she was drowned, the uncle said she had briefly regained consciousness, shouting and pleading with him not to take her life. The uncle recalled her pleas: "For God's sake uncle let me go. Please don't throw me into the well. What did I do to be killed? Uncle! Please help, help … don't kill me." The would-be fiance, who spoke with Ma'an on condition on anonymity because he had recently married, was devastated by the news. "This is not an uncle, neither is he a human being even. He is brutal. How did he imagine that bluff about an [improper] relationship between me and her? What baseless imaginations led him to that conclusion? How can a sensitive, mature and educated girl meet such an end? May God take revenge for her!" he said. The would-be fiance told of the efforts he had made to win over Ayah's family. He sent friends and relatives to the parents and to siblings and uncles, finally winning the approval of the young woman's father. "But the next day an uncle opposed the agreement," he recalled, saying that despite his best efforts the uncle would not give his consent. Honor killings and the law Many laws passed between 1948 and 1967 - during Jordanian jurisdiction -- remain in place today in the West Bank. Some earlier penal codes dating back to the British Mandate and the Ottoman period are also still active. The laws have not been repealed by the Palestinian court or the Palestinian Legislative Council - which has been defunct since 2007 following the internal division - despite requests that changes be pushed through by presidential decree. The section of the penal code affecting honor killings is also still operating in Jordan and several women's rights groups have been pressing for its repeal. Palestinian courts commute sentences for men who kill or attack female relatives accused or suspected of "dishonoring" their families. On International Women's Day in March 2009, President Mahmoud Abbas signed the UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women. However, more than two years later, the president has still not amended domestic laws addressing women's rights, and the Jordanian penal code of 1960 remains in place. The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights says the recurrence of murders of women may be due to the "relative impunity" men are granted when murdering in the name of "honor." www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=385727***WHO would do business with people like this??****
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2011 10:58:44 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2011 11:00:34 GMT -5
That is NEW news, by the way. 5/11/11.
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Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
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Post by Tennesseer on May 21, 2011 11:10:10 GMT -5
This is even NEWER news! Family members do the darndest (and bad) things: Police arrest Texas mother in Maine boy's deathBy DENISE LAVOIE and RUSSELL CONTRERAS, Associated Press Denise Lavoie And Russell Contreras, Associated Press – Thu May 19, 1:22 am ET BOSTON – A Texas woman was arrested late Wednesday in the death of her 6-year-old boy, who was never reported missing and whose body was found along a dirt road in Maine, authorities said. Julianne McCrery, 42, of Irving, Texas, was apprehended in Massachusetts earlier in the day. She was charged with being a fugitive from justice stemming from a second-degree murder charge in New Hampshire, where authorities say her son, Camden, was killed last week, New Hampshire Attorney General Michael A. Delaney said. Camden's body was found in South Berwick, Maine, near the state line with New Hampshire. Preliminary autopsy findings showed that the cause of Camden's death was asphyxiation and the manner of death was homicide, according to Maine's chief medical examiner, Dr. Margaret Greenwald. The homicide remains under investigation. news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110519/ap_on_re_us/us_boy_s_roadside_body_25
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deziloooooo
Senior Associate
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Post by deziloooooo on May 21, 2011 11:10:41 GMT -5
By Muhammad Oweiweih HEBRON (Ma'an) -- Police identified the remains of a 20-year-old woman found in a well near Hebron on Friday, over a year after her disappearance. Her uncle and three other relatives were detained and questioned. Police told Ma'an on Sunday that the death was an honor killing, to which her uncle confessed, and revealed the grim details about the woman's murder. Local prosecutor Ashraf Mash'al identified the woman as Ayah Ibrahim Barad'iyya from the southern West Bank town of Surif. Her body was found in a deserted well by Israel's separation wall in fields three kilometers from her home. It took two days to retrieve her remains from the well. Mash'al said the woman was wearing a necklace inscribed with her name, and that a handbag containing personal documents was also retrieved from the well. The facts of the case were "shocking," director of Hebron police Ramadan Awad told Ma'an. "As we interrogated her uncle, the people in the room could hardly hold back tears." According to Awad, Ibrahim Baradh’iyya and his wife reported their daughter missing in 2010 saying she had left home on April 20, heading to Hebron University where she was studying, but never returned. They said they feared she had been kidnapped, and wondered if she had run away. Classmates described the young woman, an English major, as "chaste and noble-minded," in her second year of university. Investigators found students liked and respected her. Several witnesses and friends had been summoned during the investigation, Awad said, including one man who had proposed marriage to Ayah and spoken with her family. The young man had been summoned, and was interrogated for 35 days. According to the man, Ayah had been in love with him, and he with her. He had sent his relatives to visit her parents, trying to win them over in an effort to propose marriage, but the family had refused. "Police never stopped their investigation" the Awad said, noting that the case ran cold until Friday when police were notified that a body was floating in a well near Surif. "Police and the prosecutor general, civil defense crews and an ambulance headed out to the area and retrieved the body. It took two days to retrieve all of the parts from the well," Awad said. Awad said they found the body in the 30 cubic meters of water at the bottom of the unused well. Police also found a handbag with Ayah's identity card, clothing and two photos of brothers studying in the Ukraine. "Once we had identified the remains, we summoned several suspects," the police director said. One of the suspects was Ayah’s 37-year-old uncle. He admitted that he murdered Ayah with help of three friends. A confession "On Tuesday, 20 April 2010, when Ayah was heading to Hebron University, we took her in the trunk. She was shouting loudly, so one of my friends sprayed her with gas and she fainted. I drove to the Khallat Salman area where we tied a rope around her body and dropped her into the well," Ayah's uncle told Awad. Before she was drowned, the uncle said she had briefly regained consciousness, shouting and pleading with him not to take her life. The uncle recalled her pleas: "For God's sake uncle let me go. Please don't throw me into the well. What did I do to be killed? Uncle! Please help, help … don't kill me." The would-be fiance, who spoke with Ma'an on condition on anonymity because he had recently married, was devastated by the news. "This is not an uncle, neither is he a human being even. He is brutal. How did he imagine that bluff about an [improper] relationship between me and her? What baseless imaginations led him to that conclusion? How can a sensitive, mature and educated girl meet such an end? May God take revenge for her!" he said. The would-be fiance told of the efforts he had made to win over Ayah's family. He sent friends and relatives to the parents and to siblings and uncles, finally winning the approval of the young woman's father. "But the next day an uncle opposed the agreement," he recalled, saying that despite his best efforts the uncle would not give his consent. Honor killings and the law Many laws passed between 1948 and 1967 - during Jordanian jurisdiction -- remain in place today in the West Bank. Some earlier penal codes dating back to the British Mandate and the Ottoman period are also still active. The laws have not been repealed by the Palestinian court or the Palestinian Legislative Council - which has been defunct since 2007 following the internal division - despite requests that changes be pushed through by presidential decree. The section of the penal code affecting honor killings is also still operating in Jordan and several women's rights groups have been pressing for its repeal. Palestinian courts commute sentences for men who kill or attack female relatives accused or suspected of "dishonoring" their families. On International Women's Day in March 2009, President Mahmoud Abbas signed the UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women. However, more than two years later, the president has still not amended domestic laws addressing women's rights, and the Jordanian penal code of 1960 remains in place. The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights says the recurrence of murders of women may be due to the "relative impunity" men are granted when murdering in the name of "honor." www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=385727***WHO would do business with people like this??**** It seems the parties involved , the populace, the majority of ..are as shocked and upset as any here when we read of what our own people do to others. The Uncle , his three friends hopefully will be punished, seems there is a confession, and while a tragic event, this murder, your condemning a whole people, society for the actions of a few, four people, does not commute to me, yet if you feel it's a correct response, that's your call. I think you have a bit of antagonism toward these people and it is coming out by posting this and your last comment. If so, that's your problem. Actually the Israeli's were not involved in this case, it was handled as any societys law enforcement authorities would do so in such a crime, in this case, the Palastinians. Police, Prosecutors, I am sure there will be defense attorneys involved as the case moves forward and a trial, held under their own statutes. The final verdict? Who knows, remember we had one also as brutal, guy involved name was, ..what was it again, something to do with a fruit.....oh yeah, O-J.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2011 11:16:00 GMT -5
Good grief, Dezi-- you really expect Israel to try to work with people that do this sort of stuff?? REALLY? ? You read the article?? You saw that men are pardoned?? How in a million years you liberals stand up and defend these murderers I will NEVER understand!! Well, yes, I do.. you have been fed a line of garbage by your news sources and political party, and you believe it.
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deziloooooo
Senior Associate
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Post by deziloooooo on May 21, 2011 11:35:56 GMT -5
Good grief, Dezi-- you really expect Israel to try to work with people that do this sort of stuff?? REALLY? ? You read the article?? You saw that men are pardoned?? How in a million years you liberals stand up and defend these murderers I will NEVER understand!! Well, yes, I do.. you have been fed a line of garbage by your news sources and political party, and you believe it. Really got to get control Krickett..or not, your call, "freedom of speech " and all that stuff..."that do this sort of stuff??" Decapitation, and her friend gutted, "You saw that men are pardoned??" O-J?..... That wasn't garbage, that happened, that was the verdict...freedom. S happens..and you make no mention of how the authorities, and who the authorities are and reacted or what seems to be the revulsion of so much of the populace, the former suitor, a Palastinian, one of those. Kind of narrow in your views Krickett, selectivly seeing what you want to see and ignoring that which doesn't fit your ideas of how things are, what your feelings and beliefs are.[tsk, tsk}
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2011 12:18:27 GMT -5
Believe me, Dez-- I do not want your wide view liberal perceptions in my mind. I am open minded enough to see the truth when it is in my face. I thought you were softening on the idea that genocide of the Jews, your people, is not okay, but I guess I read you wrong. Still defending the Muslims and their insane policies. Maybe some day the ME/Africa Muslims will stop acting like genocidal savages that even kill their own children, but that day is not here. Of course, OUR society condones killing before birth, not after, so what can I expect... There should be no conversation with such people as the ME/Africa Islamists in a civilized society. We need to let them war it out, protect Israel from them, and become independent of their oil. Not going to happen with a pseudo Muslim globalist POTUS, though.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 21, 2011 12:38:03 GMT -5
Believe me, Dez-- I do not want your wide view liberal perceptions in my mind. I am open minded enough to see the truth when it is in my face. I thought you were softening on the idea that genocide of the Jews, your people, is not okay, but I guess I read you wrong. Still defending the Muslims and their insane policies. Maybe some day the ME/Africa Muslims will stop acting like genocidal savages that even kill their own children, but that day is not here. Of course, OUR society condones killing before birth, not after, so what can I expect... There should be no conversation with such people as the ME/Africa Islamists in a civilized society. We need to let them war it out, protect Israel from them, and become independent of their oil. Not going to happen with a pseudo Muslim globalist POTUS, though. "I am open minded enough"
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on May 21, 2011 16:55:39 GMT -5
bills wrote: Bet it breaks their hearts that these two millionaires, currently the President of the United States of America and the First Lady of the United States of America can't certify a Bill of Sale. And I'll bet they didn't want their professional ethics aired like the dirty laundry it was. True, they do hold the positions you state. It tells more about their ability to defend themselves against charges of malfeasance and lack of ethics than Clinton's wagging finger. If gloating that they beat the rap by not defending themselves, your analysis makes Bernie Madoff look like a Boy Scout.
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billisonboard
Community Leader
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Post by billisonboard on May 21, 2011 17:10:17 GMT -5
... their ability to defend themselves against charges of malfeasance ... What charges of malfeasance do you refer to?
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on May 21, 2011 18:29:14 GMT -5
bills asked: What charges of malfeasance do you refer to? Malfreasance? I don't know if there was any, actually. It's sort of, like we see so much of here, you know, , that you don't ever call any of the liberals on for their use of it, , , tongue in cheek. I don't know what the actual accusations were, but both him and her dodged them by some loophole escape clause in the law. You can call it a play on words if you' like. You know, the same way your snopes link did their dance around the facts. I just got closer and brought up the fact that there were facts that the Obamas didn't want to face. Whereas your snopes thing made it look like two pillars of the community decided one fine day to abandon all their good works and for no good reason just up and go do something else. That's all, just a borrowed liberal practice of making a play on words. Why? You seem to have a bigger problem with a conservative making a play on words than you do a liberal? Why is that?
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billisonboard
Community Leader
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Post by billisonboard on May 21, 2011 18:36:53 GMT -5
bills asked:
What charges of malfeasance do you refer to? Malfreasance? I don't know if there was any, actually. ...
I don't know what the actual accusations were, but both him and her dodged them by some loophole escape clause in the law.
You can call it a play on words if you' like. ... Actually, I will call it what it is, a baseless smear.
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