burnsattornincan
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Post by burnsattornincan on May 19, 2011 23:27:21 GMT -5
Mr Burns what seems to be your problem with my threads, my posts?
Not really a problem Mr. deziloooooo. Just be prepared for whatever is warranted.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 19, 2011 23:34:56 GMT -5
Surprising to me, guess I have been on these boards to long, overall, it seems the majority of the groups are very positive to his proposals. A few, both positive and negative same organization, have a problem with the 1967 borders see it's called Auschwitz 1967 borders, to me a degrading of those who passed through those gates to their death, it seems a trivialization of a time that should not be trivialized, but thats me, but on the other hand agrree with the basic tenans of his speech. Possible more readers here should read that link. If so many Jewish organizations are in agreement with most of it, possibe the PM might hav a different welcome here when he meerts whith Jewish Leaders while in the States. Over all, seems in agreement which means the Arab side must be seething.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 19, 2011 23:40:47 GMT -5
Mr Burns what seems to be your problem with my threads, my posts?Not really a problem Mr. deziloooooo. Just be prepared for whatever is warranted. Sorry , you lost me. Don't understand what your referring to. "Just be prepared for whatever is warranted"
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Post by lakhota on May 20, 2011 1:05:34 GMT -5
A Synopsis of the Israel/Palestine ConflictThe following is a very short synopsis of the history of this conflict. We recommend that you also read the much more detailed account, "The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict." For centuries there was no such conflict. In the 19th century the land of Palestine was inhabited by a multicultural population – approximately 86 percent Muslim, 10 percent Christian, and 4 percent Jewish – living in peace. ZionismIn the late 1800s a group in Europe decided to colonize this land. Known as Zionists, they represented an extremist minority of the Jewish population. Their goal was to create a Jewish homeland, and they considered locations in Africa and the Americas, before settling on Palestine. At first, this immigration created no problems. However, as more and more Zionists immigrated to Palestine – many with the express wish of taking over the land for a Jewish state – the indigenous population became increasingly alarmed. Eventually, fighting broke out, with escalating waves of violence. Hitler's rise to power, combined with Zionist activities to sabotage efforts to place Jewish refugees in western countries, led to increased Jewish immigration to Palestine, and conflict grew. UN Partition PlanFinally, in 1947 the United Nations decided to intervene. However, rather than adhering to the principle of “self-determination of peoples,” in which the people themselves create their own state and system of government, the UN chose to revert to the medieval strategy whereby an outside power divides up other people’s land. Under considerable Zionist pressure, the UN recommended giving away 55% of Palestine to a Jewish state – despite the fact that this group represented only about 30% of the total population, and owned under 7% of the land. 1947-1949 WarWhile it is widely reported that the resulting war eventually included five Arab armies, less well known is the fact that throughout this war Zionist forces outnumbered all Arab and Palestinian combatants combined – often by a factor of two to three. Moreover, Arab armies did not invade Israel – virtually all battles were fought on land that was to have been the Palestinian state. Finally, it is significant to note that Arab armies entered the conflict only after Zionist forces had committed 16 massacres, including the grisly massacre of over 100 men, women, and children at Deir Yassin. Future Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, head of one of the Jewish terrorist groups, described this as “splendid,” and stated: “As in Deir Yassin, so everywhere, we will attack and smite the enemy. God, God, Thou has chosen us for conquest.” Zionist forces committed 33 massacres altogether. By the end of the war, Israel had conquered 78 percent of Palestine; three-quarters of a million Palestinians had been made refugees; over 500 towns and villages had been obliterated; and a new map was drawn up, in which every city, river and hillock received a new, Hebrew name, as all vestiges of the Palestinian culture were to be erased. For decades Israel denied the existence of this population, former Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir once saying: “There is no such thing as a Palestinian.” 1967 War & USS LibertyIn 1967, Israel conquered still more land. Following the Six Day War, in which Israeli forces launched a highly successful surprise attack on Egypt, Israel occupied the final 22% of Palestine that had eluded it in 1948 – the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Since, according to international law it is inadmissible to acquire territory by war, these are occupied territories and do not belong to Israel. It also occupied parts of Egypt (since returned) and Syria (which remain under occupation). Also during the Six Day War, Israel attacked a US Navy ship, the USS Liberty, killing and injuring over 200 American servicemen. President Lyndon Johnson recalled rescue flights, saying that he did not want to "embarrass an ally." (In 2004 a high-level commission chaired by Admiral Thomas Moorer, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, found this attack to be “an act of war against the United States,” a fact few news media have reported.) Current ConflictThere are two primary issues at the core of this continuing conflict. First, there is the inevitably destabilizing effect of trying to maintain an ethnically preferential state, particularly when it is largely of foreign origin. The original population of what is now Israel was 96 percent Muslim and Christian, yet, these refugees are prohibited from returning to their homes in the self-described Jewish state (and those within Israel are subjected to systematic discrimination). Second, Israel's continued military occupation and confiscation of privately owned land in the West Bank, and control over Gaza, are extremely oppressive, with Palestinians having minimal control over their lives. Over 10,000 Palestinian men, women, and children are held in Israeli prisons. Few of them have had a legitimate trial; Physical abuse and torture are frequent. Palestinian borders (even internal ones) are controlled by Israeli forces. Periodically men, women, and children are strip searched; people are beaten; women in labor are prevented from reaching hospitals (at times resulting in death); food and medicine are blocked from entering Gaza, producing an escalating humanitarian crisis. Israeli forces invade almost daily, injuring, kidnapping, and sometimes killing inhabitants. According to the Oslo peace accords of 1993, these territories were supposed to finally become a Palestinian state. However, after years of Israel continuing to confiscate land and conditions steadily worsening, the Palestinian population rebelled. (The Barak offer, widely reputed to be generous, was anything but.) This uprising, called the "Intifada" (Arabic for "shaking off") began at the end of September 2000. U.S. InvolvementLargely due to special-interest lobbying, U.S. taxpayers give Israel an average of $7 million per day, and since its creation have given more U.S. funds to Israel than to any other nation. As Americans learn about how Israel is using our tax dollars, many are calling for an end to this expenditure. www.ifamericansknew.org/history/The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict (Long): www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.htmlNOTE: The U.S. actually gives Israel $8.4 million per day (Obama's 2012 budget calls for $3.075 billion).
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Post by lakhota on May 20, 2011 1:11:50 GMT -5
Who was first Palestine or Israel?Modern Israel of course was created from the land of Palestinians who had been inhabiting it for about two thousand years. Lots of right wing nut jobs and zionists like to go right back to ancient times to claim the Israelis were the original inhabitants of the land but even back then the Palestinians inhabited quite a large proportion of what is present day Israel. However aside from that, modern Israel is not a continuation of ancient Israel, modern Israelis are not the same people as the ancient Hebrew/Jewish people. The vast majority are Jews that have migrated there in the past fifty years from Europe, Russia and other Middle Eastern countries. Racially, the Palestinians would be far more closely related to the ancient Jews/Hebrews than modern Israelis, which just shows how ridiculous a notion zionism really is. If Jews had retained the same genetic lineage from ancient times they should basically all look much the same no matter what part of the world they came from but modern Israelis are quite a diverse bunch and are certainly not racially homogeneous. Yes intermarriage of Jews was quite rare in Europe but it did happen - even in medieval times, and in the 18th and 19th centuries it became much more common. Also Israel's Law of Return allows people who are married to Jews or who have Jewish grandparents to migrate there, which means many Israelis have only tenuous links to even the medieval Jews never mind the ancient Jews. answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100921160122AAAKY45
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Post by lakhota on May 20, 2011 1:12:45 GMT -5
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Post by magichat on May 20, 2011 7:08:56 GMT -5
Your snyopsis is a bit one sided, or did you really not know that Egypt was as ready to attack Israel in the 6 days war?
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 9:16:17 GMT -5
www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/05/20/arab-israeli-conflict-obama-manages-infuriate/On Arab-Israeli Conflict Obama Manages to Infuriate Almost Everyone By Judith Miller Published May 20, 2011 | FoxNews.com President Obama’s second Middle Eastern speech on Thursday was very different in tone and substance from his first in Cairo back in 2009. His first “new beginnings” speech was defensive, an effort to repairing longstanding mistrust between the Arab Muslims and America. Now with the killing of Usama bin Laden behind him, Obama could gloat that Al Qaeda had failed. But on the democracy front, he was largely responding to dramatic upheavals that Arabs themselves had wrought, with virtually no prodding or help from the U.S. This was Obama’s “get on the right side of history” speech. Comparing those speeches reminds us of how profoundly the Arab world has changed since Obama headed for Cairo. For one thing, there were no apologies in this speech for America or American foreign policy in the Middle East, no quotes from, or repeated references to the “Holy Koran,” as there were back in 2009. MORE... **This was pretty much how I viewed his speech. Nothing firm anywhere, just a lot of words. But at least he was not SO openly pro-Muslim as before. His speech writers cleaned that up some.**
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 9:19:31 GMT -5
Not sure, though, what is the point of angering EVERYBODY rather than just some people. I think Obama is so over his head on foreign policy, because his initial approach was a miserable fail, and he really knows no other way to do things.. is not used to failure, either.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 9:31:57 GMT -5
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 20, 2011 9:45:54 GMT -5
There's absolutely no reason to trust the Palestinian government, or any of the other Arab governments. Period. Fixed.
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Post by jarhead1976 on May 20, 2011 9:47:59 GMT -5
Israel will solve their own problem along with Americans that aline with them and their cause. To live free from persecution based on faith.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 11:33:08 GMT -5
www.foxnews.com/world/2011/05/20/syrian-army-begins-withdrawal-western-town/World Over 20 Dead as Syrian Forces Fire Into Crowds of Protesters Published May 20, 2011 | FoxNews.com At least 21 people are dead after Syrian forces fired live rounds into crowds of protesters as thousands took to the streets for pro-democracy demonstrations, according to Reuters. The attacks took place in the suburbs of Damascus, Hama and Deraa, according to Al-Jazeera. Witnesses say 11 and 16-year-old boys are among the dead, Al-Jazeera reports. One of the attacks took place after Syria's secret police drove cars into the demonstrators trying to break up a protest. After one of the cars crashed, police jumped out and opened fire, according to Al-Jazeera. "The four secret police officers opened fire on the protesters with machine guns," one witness told the Arab-based network. Syria has launched a bloody crackdown over the past two months on an unprecedented uprising against Syrian President Bashar Assad, unleashing the army and security forces to crush dissent. Human rights groups say more than 850 people have been killed in the crackdown. The latest round of violence comes as Syria accused the United States of meddling after President Obama said that the Syrian president should lead his country to democracy or "get out of the way." Syria's official news agency said Obama's speech amounted to "incitement." The comments by the U.S. president on Thursday were his most direct warning to Assad, whose regime is trying to crush a popular revolt. "Obama's speech confirms the reality of American intervention in the internal affairs of the region's countries, including Syria," the statement said. MORE.. **Let's hope this is just Syria ignoring Obama, and not reacting to him.**
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Post by marshabar1 on May 20, 2011 11:49:03 GMT -5
weekly.ahram.org.eg/2011/1048/re1.htm5 Million Palestinians return to Israel? Yeah, that could work. . . And the goats . . . Modern, Prosperous Tel Aviv BTW protests in front of U.S. Embassy Cairo for release of blind sheik bomber. Never happen under Mubarak. Middle East bored with Obama, says his speech is just blahblah . . . Don't mean a thing. Could have said the "words" anytime. Doesn't matter. Nice job "repairing" foreign relations. The enemy of our ally is our friend who despises us.
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Post by jarhead1976 on May 20, 2011 12:00:12 GMT -5
The President is not concerned with nothing more than appearances. We have no foreign policy that works. Lets cut off aid to our allies and give money to our enemy's . These people are brilliant.... IMHO > I do not think the man will live to see a second term.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 20, 2011 12:05:01 GMT -5
There is no "Palestine", or "Palestinians". It's a myth dating back to the Roman genocide of the Jews.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 12:56:52 GMT -5
Obama/Netan... on TV.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 13:13:18 GMT -5
I sure like Netanyahu.. he said NO to the 1967 borders. Good talk. Hope everyone saw it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 13:25:25 GMT -5
I especially like the way Netanyahu scolded Obimbo like a teacher scolding schoolkid! ;D
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 13:43:33 GMT -5
And his body language and everything about him spoke strength and courage, too.. You could FEEL Obama judging him, couldn't you? I hope our next POTUS is more like Netanyahu.
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Post by jarhead1976 on May 20, 2011 13:49:17 GMT -5
President Barack Obama, a man I deeply admire,, got his ass spanked . . Mr. Netanyahu flat out told him ,your with us or against us, just stay out of the way. Israel will not mince words without action to back it up.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 20, 2011 14:04:19 GMT -5
President Barack Obama, a man I deeply admire,, got his ass spanked . . Mr. Netanyahu flat out told him ,your with us or against us, just stay out of the way. Israel will not mince words without action to back it up. If you like the idea of a foreign leader, who's State is the recipient of massive aid and $ , for decades now, being the one to dictate to our leaders, all of them, I guess you are correct, we give the aid but we have no say as to how their actions, and use of it too, is used. Even if their actions hurt our agenda and needs as a country, and there are major concerns here beyond this small State. Obama in his speech, as diplomatically as he could, granted some things left out, just could NOT be addressed publicly, especially under the current realities. Saudi Arabia, he , Obama, here is being Presidential, has a obligation that none of us who post here have. None of us have the responsibility or the clout, our words mean nothing , just yadda , yadda, but every utterance of his means something to some one. I still say, this so called strong leader of the small state, was just playing politics , with OUR political doings, and I resent it, even though I support the State as a continuing State of the Jewish People, but the leader of the State was out of line, especially by speaking out before he had a chance to speak directly to the POTUS which was to happen the next day. Surprising to me, on a article posted of reaction of important and influential Jewish organization, the majority of, {no not all, since when do you expect all groups to agree on all things, especially a bunch of Jews, we just don't do things that way} were very favorable toward the POTUS comments, and even where they disagreed on some of the points mentioned, it was more the timing of the comments then the content , meaning, they are something to consider and discuss, and if security concerns can be met, as best as one can well then...possible, his ideas.....
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Post by jarhead1976 on May 20, 2011 14:22:52 GMT -5
First Israel doesn't PLAY. Second President Barack Obama, a man I deeply admire, needs to think before he speaks . Third I have no respect for him or ... , I promised a women I wouldn't go there so .... Hey, I am outta here! You all have a great weekend.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 14:26:42 GMT -5
You, too, Jar!!
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ameiko
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Post by ameiko on May 20, 2011 16:42:46 GMT -5
To Dezilroo: In the past, even though I have disagreed with you, I saw you as a rational person capable of evaluating the truth of a situation even if your values lead you to a different conclusion. After reading one of your posts, I can no longer see you as this person. Your condemnation of Netanyahu is simply as indefensible as both the 1967 borders and Obama's demands that Israel returns to them. What you condemn Netanyahu for visiting upon Obama was first visited upon him by Obama many orders higher For all of the above, here I agree with the President and feel the reaction of many is just ignorance and emotional and a excuse to diss the Potus who seem to enjoy that endeavor, it seems part of their daily life..Obama is the ignorant one: he knows not how to act on the world stage and he has shown this time and time again in England, Russia, Japan, and the Middle East. Look at how he handedl Egypt: tossing a long term ally (one tolerant of Israel) under the bus in favor of rabble that includes the anti Isreal Muslim brotherhood. And then he thinks he can create peace between Isreal and Palestine when Palestine has gained an ally on Isreal's border? Really? Netanyahu is not my leader, he is the leader of another State and if he wants what he wants from our/my country,Sorta like how Obama wants Israel to accept the 1967 borders? and it seems he does, then in my opinion, to diss my President publicly, to embarrass him and his ideasJust like Obama did when he unilaterally decided that the concessions Isreal must make prior to any negotiations with an entitt that does not even recognize its right to exist? , publickly, to publicly get involved in our electoral process, he is, By asking for clarity from Congress that America will in fact honor its past word? He already knows that Obama will not since Obama is a proven liar when it comes to Isreal. See here: www.americanthinker.com/2011/05/disturbing_questions_about_pre.htmlOf course, if Bibi is wrong for supposedly interfering with the electoral process in America, is not Obama FAR worse by interfering with Israel's national security, its peace process with its neighbor, indeed it's VERY SURVIVAL?!?!? using a possible lack of political support by a group as a hammer against the POTUS, a idiot I am not and neither are the rest of you here who are reading this, to me, I don't appreciate that interference in our ways and business. And I am sure that Israel's people didn't appreciate Obama interfering in its negotiations and security. It is obvious, this foreign leader is playing local politics in a arena he does not have a right to , he has no chips in this game.This accusation fits Obama PERFECTLY and indeed, it is not his or his family's blood that will be shed if an emboldened Arab world surges against Isreal. My answer to him , good thing I am not th POTUS, is stay home, F off..and if Obama goes down in his re election bid, rather then kiss this ones arse..better to kick it , and see where the chips fall.Kiss arse? You mean like how Obama acts with dictatorships like Iran, Russia, and China while tossing allies like Eastern Europe, Egypt and Isreal (heck even Lybia which had renounced terrorism, blocked the rise of a Muslim theocracy in its borders, and kept the oil flowing) under the bus? I have great respect for the State of Israel, want it safe , am willing to help pay for their protection, and even defend it if needed, though so far, they have never asked for our people to defend them.
However, as we have to, supposed to, understand where they are coming from and their concerns, that works both ways . They do: it's why Bibi didn't act as you condemn him for until Obama did first, cutting Isreal off at the knees to make it easier for the Arab world to slit its throat. They have to understand we , our leaders have a hell of a lot more on their plate then just their tiny piece of the globe And both you and Obama has to understand that the President must THINK and UNDERSTAND before making sweeping statements and demands. Obama doesn't do this because he KNOWS what is right and correct and KNOWS that his infinite wisdom will (supposedly) solve all the problems that have plagued the world for generations. Obama is not as smart as he or his supporters thinks he is and when he acts out of his ignorance, people die and the world is less safe. Bush was criticized for supposedly making the world a less safe place but he went after avowed enemies of America and the West while seeking to build coalitions among an otherwise weak and cowardly west (with a few exceptions like Great Britain). Obama rewards terrorists and enemies while hurting allies; far worse than anything Bush could even be accused of doing in terms of international security. and to dismiss all our concerns and obligations and actually diss our leaders, because they don't cow tow to their wants, F em. The problem is, they know about our other concerns, they just don't care.And again, this refers well to Obama who pontificated about Isreal's borders with neither speaking to Isreal nor understanding how ludicrous his demands are. Indeed, Obama makes on demand after another of other sovereign nations: regime change in Egypt, Lybia, and Syria as well as Isreal's borders with WHAT authority? At least Bush tried to work with other allies and the UN but not Obama: he acts like an Emperor. Well he is NOT! What the POTUS suggested in todays speech , was a answer to what is happening in this important part of the Globe. he had to be strong but also Presedential, and he was.. He did not suggest, he demanded and without consulting with Isreal. Liberals are like that: make demands of others without considering the other person. If Obama DID have to make make demands prior to meeting either nation's leaders, it should have been to demand the much simpler and quite understandable condition from Palestine (which has broken every single peace treaty it has signed with Isreal and attacks it every day in violation of international law) to simply recognize that Isreal is a sovereign state that has the right to exist. For the Israeli leader to open his trap, before meeting the President, showing his stupidity, arrogance, it was not good, or possible even declaring war on the POTUS, haven't a clue his desires or agenda before he even met with him, one lousy day, either he is in trouble politically at hiome, has lost it, is scared, or is just incompetent, possible a mix of all of the above.You realize that every single word above actually applies to Obama, right? He is the one at trouble politically at home and it is Obama in his arrogance who opened his trap before meeting with Isreal's leader?!? Dezilroo, I advise that you gain some much needed perspective. To condemn Bibi for his actions when Obama initiated such actions several of magnitudes of order worse is simply beyond the pale: you have painted yourself as a blind Obamanite where before you were not. It's sad.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 17:01:36 GMT -5
IMO, which means absolutely nothing-- I think Dez is in a quandry here. He is a center left Jewish man that strongly supports Obama. Plus he has not indicated that he is particularly religious, but old enough to have been through lots of feelings and experiences re. being Jewish. I think he is feeling pulled in different directions. JMO, as I said, worth nothing.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on May 20, 2011 17:03:08 GMT -5
Obama removed the United States of America as an honest broker in the middle east by siding with the Palestinians. He moved the radical islamists one step closer to their dream of a world without Israel. Bibi is understandably outraged, and I felt he showed class and restraint today.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 17:07:35 GMT -5
He was awesome, admirable. Truly a leader of his people and country. I want to go check Debka and see what they are saying.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on May 20, 2011 17:46:00 GMT -5
desi, you are off base. You're so far off base you ain't even on the same playing field.
I'm not jewish, but I have known survivors of WWII Europe. I believe I have a feeling for what they fear could happen again. Obama has forcefully and thoughtlessly, (but some people think he is a closet muslim anyway, so maybe it was not so thoughtlessly after all), brought that possibility closer to fruition.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on May 20, 2011 17:51:11 GMT -5
To Dezilroo: In the past, even though we have disagreed with you, I saw you as a rational person capable of evaluating the truth of a situation even if your values lead you to a different conclusion. After reading one of your posts, I can no longer see you as this person. Your condemnation of Netanyahu is simply as indefeniable as both the 1967 borders and Obama's demands that Israel returns to them. What you condemn Netanyahu for visiting upon Obama was first visited upon him by Obama many orders higher For all of the above, here I agree with the President and feel the reaction of many is just ignorance and emotional and a excuse to diss the Potus who seem to enjoy that endeavor, it seems part of their daily life..Obama is the ignorant one: he knows not how to act on the world stage and he has shown this time and time again in England, Russia, Japan, and the Middle East. Look at how he handedl Egypt: tossing a long term ally (one tolerant of Israel) under the bus in favor of rabble that includes the anti Isreal Muslim brotherhood. And then he thinks he can create peace between Isreal and Palestine when Palestine has gained an ally on Isreal's border? Really? Netanyahu is not my leader, he is the leader of another State and if he wants what he wants from our/my country,Sorta like how Obama wants Israel to accept the 1967 borders? and it seems he does, then in my opinion, to diss my President publicly, to embarrass him and his ideasJust like Obama did when he unilaterally decided that the concessions Isreal must make prior to any negotiations with an entitt that does not even recognize its right to exist? , publickly, to publicly get involved in our electoral process, he is, By asking for clarity from Congress that America will in fact honor its past word? He already knows that Obama will not since Obama is a proven liar when it comes to Isreal. See here: www.americanthinker.com/2011/05/disturbing_questions_about_pre.htmlOf course, if Bibi is wrong for supposedly interfering with the electoral process in America, is not Obama FAR worse by interfering with Israel's national security, its peace process with its neighbor, indeed it's VERY SURVIVAL?!?!? using a possible lack of political support by a group as a hammer against the POTUS, a idiot I am not and neither are the rest of you here who are reading this, to me, I don't appreciate that interference in our ways and business. And I am sure that Israel's people didn't appreciate Obama interfering in its negotiations and security. It is obvious, this foreign leader is playing local politics in a arena he does not have a right to , he has no chips in this game.This accusation fits Obama PERFECTLY and indeed, it is not his or his family's blood that will be shed if an emboldened Arab world surges against Isreal. My answer to him , good thing I am not th POTUS, is stay home, F off..and if Obama goes down in his re election bid, rather then kiss this ones arse..better to kick it , and see where the chips fall.Kiss arse? You mean like how Obama acts with dictatorships like Iran, Russia, and China while tossing allies like Eastern Europe, Egypt and Isreal (heck even Lybia which had renounced terrorism, blocked the rise of a Muslim theocracy in its borders, and kept the oil flowing) under the bus? I have great respect for the State of Israel, want it safe , am willing to help pay for their protection, and even defend it if needed, though so far, they have never asked for our people to defend them.
However, as we have to, supposed to, understand where they are coming from and their concerns, that works both ways . They do: it's why Bibi didn't act as you condemn him for until Obama did first, cutting Isreal off at the knees to make it easier for the Arab world to slit its throat. They have to understand we , our leaders have a hell of a lot more on their plate then just their tiny piece of the globe And both you and Obama has to understand that the President must THINK and UNDERSTAND before making sweeping statements and demands. Obama doesn't do this because he KNOWS what is right and correct and KNOWS that his infinite wisdom will (supposedly) solve all the problems that have plagued the world for generations. Obama is not as smart as he or his supporters thinks he is and when he acts out of his ignorance, people die and the world is less safe. Bush was criticized for supposedly making the world a less safe place but he went after avowed enemies of America and the West while seeking to build coalitions among an otherwise weak and cowardly west (with a few exceptions like Great Britain). Obama rewards terrorists and enemies while hurting allies; far worse than anything Bush could even be accused of doing in terms of international security. and to dismiss all our concerns and obligations and actually diss our leaders, because they don't cow tow to their wants, F em. The problem is, they know about our other concerns, they just don't care.And again, this refers well to Obama who pontificated about Isreal's borders with neither speaking to Isreal nor understanding how ludicrous his demands are. Indeed, Obama makes on demand after another of other sovereign nations: regime change in Egypt, Lybia, and Syria as well as Isreal's borders with WHAT authority? At least Bush tried to work with other allies and the UN but not Obama: he acts like an Emperor. Well he is NOT! What the POTUS suggested in todays speech , was a answer to what is happening in this important part of the Globe. he had to be strong but also Presedential, and he was.. He did not suggest, he demanded and without consulting with Isreal. Liberals are like that: make demands of others without considering the other person. If Obama DID have to make make demands prior to meeting either nation's leaders, it should have been to demand the much simpler and quite understandable condition from Palestine (which has broken every single peace treaty it has signed with Isreal and attacks it every day in violation of international law) to simply recognize that Isreal is a sovereign state that has the right to exist. For the Israeli leader to open his trap, before meeting the President, showing his stupidity, arrogance, it was not good, or possible even declaring war on the POTUS, haven't a clue his desires or agenda before he even met with him, one lousy day, either he is in trouble politically at hiome, has lost it, is scared, or is just incompetent, possible a mix of all of the above.You realize that every single word above actually applies to Obama, right? He is the one at trouble politically at home and it is Obama in his arrogance who opened his trap before meeting with Isreal's leader?!? Dezilroo, I advise that you gain some much needed perspective. To condemn Bibi for his actions when Obama initiated such actions several of magnitudes of order worse is simply beyond the pale: you have painted yourself as a blind Obamanite where before you were not. It's sad. Good post ameiko, well thought out , think hit all my points, lets see if i can do you justice. "Look at how he handedl Egypt: tossing a long term ally (one tolerant of Israel) under the bus in favor of rabble..." That rabble , and it also includes the Military, is the Egyptian people, who , including the Muslim Brotherhood ", finally said enough and expressed their feelings, and the Military, unlike in Syria, Bahrain, sided with them by staying on the side lines. Friend or not, as POTUS, there is a obligation to the country, it's best interests, and to get into personal friendships, besides making friendly suggestions, " it's time to go, find a home, we'll support you there, want to come here for a visit, fine but really, under the cercumstances, let me call Saudis and see what we can work out, remember the problem with the Shah.." That it took him a while to understand it was time to go, he never got it, the Egyptian Military got it, friend or not, and if any one threw him under the bus , it was his own people, depending on how this plays out. Obama, very presidential in his dealng with that sitiuation, Egypt, mubarak. Will get to the others, have to go now..but one down , how many more to go?
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