Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on May 15, 2011 18:31:25 GMT -5
THEY'RE LIVING THE GOOD LIFE ON $17,580 A YEAR NO-HOLDS-BARRED PENNY PINCHING HELPED THE TIGHTWAD GAZETTE EDITOR AND HER HUSBAND RETIRE IN THEIR FORTIES. ARE ANY OF THEIR EXTREME MEASURES FOR YOU? (This is an interview in Money Magazine of Any Dacyzcn and her husband. Dated 1997, so the salary would have to be converted to 2011 dollars, but a lot of the principles are the same). This couple had 6 children and lived on about half of the husband's salary (less than $40K/yr); paid cash for their home and saved enough to retire in their 40's. Amy and Jim's tightwad tricks have helped them achieve what most Americans only dream about: early retirement, a secure future and zero debt. To find out whether any of their extreme sacrifices in creature comforts are worth it, we spent some time last fall in the conspicuously unconsuming Dacyczyn household. If nothing else, the family teaches powerful lessons about the value of managing your wants and reducing your needs. [snip] The Dacyczyns will say only that their net worth is close to $1 million. Here's how the dollars add up: The newsletter, which cost $12 a year and at its peak had 100,000 subscribers, likely brought in several hundred thousand dollars in profit over six years. And the 460,000 books she sold gave Amy an estimated $500,000 in advances. Meanwhile, the family continues to live almost entirely on the $14,000-a-year pension that Jim has collected since retiring in June 1991. The couple say they've saved enough to cover their living expenses until they die and to put all six kids through college, plus make generous donations to charity. money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/moneymag_archive/1997/01/01/220938/index.htm
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on May 15, 2011 18:33:24 GMT -5
Amy wrote a series of newsletters that eventually became three volumes titled "The Tightwad Gazette".
While I AM a big fan, I certainly have not adopted everything she did, but I learned a lot from her. I think her biggest contribution was the idea that frugality was a reward into itself. In the 1990's consumerism was king, bigger and more were better. She was way ahead of her time, imo...
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lynnerself
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Post by lynnerself on May 15, 2011 18:39:05 GMT -5
"No dinners out, no movies" "shunning frills like vacations," "their net worth is close to $1 million"
Just not my cup of tea, sorry.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2011 18:46:53 GMT -5
I was waiting for the part about what they do for health insurance, which could cost $17,580/year alone if they bought a private policy. He's a Navy veteran so they're covered. Most people don't have that option.
I commend them for living on less than they make but it does sound like they're very insular. Their diet doesn't sound that healthy, either. I agree that foods a little past the "sell by" date aren't going to be dangerous, but it sounds like the food made from produce they grow is supplemented by a lot of processed stuff, and the cheaper the better. Cheaper tends to have more chemicals, trans-fats, high-fructose corn syrup, and artificial colors and flavorings. Finally, I wonder what the kids are missing in terms of intellectual stimulation. Visiting other places, for example, can be a real eye-opener. It sure was for DS when we drve to Montreal and he learned what it was like to be in a place where English was not the predominant language! Do they get to museums or concerts? Even the iPod, which certainly falls into the category of expensive "wants", can be a rich source of music and news. I'm really seeing the effects of watching video podcasts in other languages and hearing news from around the world. They're missing that, too.
It will be interesting to see how the kids turn out- profligate spenders trying to get what they never had as a kid, conservative like Mom and Dad, or somewhere in the middle.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on May 15, 2011 18:48:12 GMT -5
"One other problem with the Dacyczyns' low-consumption lifestyle: It's isolating. The family rejects dinners out, most vacations and movies (last summer's splurge was to see Babe, the first family movie outing in about 10 years). Sports activities and lessons are not encouraged, although the four oldest kids do attend Girl Scout and Boy Scout meetings (annual dues: $12 per child). The family is "emotionally self-contained," says Amy proudly. She likes her children to play with one another, not with other people's kids. "
I'm all for saving money, and I'd like to read the Tightwad Gazette, but this sounds like a mental illness of some sort. I am social person, I couldn't be so isolated.
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DVM gone riding
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Post by DVM gone riding on May 15, 2011 18:49:24 GMT -5
I think I feel really sorry for the kids, there is a balance in life and this family doesn't have it. Allowing your children to have friends doesn't cost THAT much but right now their kids are totally isolated, I predict that will back fire latter in life if it hasn't already.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on May 15, 2011 18:55:12 GMT -5
I think I feel really sorry for the kids, there is a balance in life and this family doesn't have it. Allowing your children to have friends doesn't cost THAT much but right now their kids are totally isolated, I predict that will back fire latter in life if it hasn't already. The article is from 14 years ago- I wonder how the kids reacted when they got out into the world and weren't sheltered anymore. College must have been a (possibly literal) trip for them! Edited because I'm a dummy and remembered the article date incorrectly!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2011 19:13:27 GMT -5
Ok, I am not related to these people. I lived with a schoolteacher aunt and a mailcarrier uncle.
Out to eat? Takeout from KFC. We never went anywhere else.
Vacations? My uncle went fishing once a year with his church buddies. We never went anywhere else.
Movies? We did that a lot . . . mostly the equivalent of the Dollar Theater except it was free because local dept. stores gave out tickets. It was on Wed. mornings during the summer.
It wasn't a bad life at all. It's just that the two things I see mentioned most here . . . vacationing and eating out . . . weren't part of that middle class lifestyle.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on May 15, 2011 19:18:26 GMT -5
Ok, I am not related to these people. I lived with a schoolteacher aunt and a mailcarrier uncle. Out to eat? Takeout from KFC. We never went anywhere else. Vacations? My uncle went fishing once a year with his church buddies. We never went anywhere else. Movies? We did that a lot . . . mostly the equivalent of the Dollar Theater except it was free because local dept. stores gave out tickets. It was on Wed. mornings during the summer. It wasn't a bad life at all. It's just that the two things I see mentioned most here . . . vacationing and eating out . . . weren't part of that middle class lifestyle. I think my biggest problem was that the mom said she discourages extracurricular activities and prefers that her kids only play with one another, no outside socializing. What happens when mom and dad are gone?What about when the siblings are spread out around the country chasing jobs? They have missed out on the part of childhood where you learn to be social and meet new people.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2011 19:36:55 GMT -5
I admire their discipline but I wonder about the kids too. At some point you have to lighten up and enjoy the fruits of your labors. Honestly I'm not sure I'd be proud of having a million dollar net worth and kids that weren't allowed to engage in activities, or no vacations or trips to the zoo. On the other hand I'm reading a book called "The Householder's Guide to the Universe" about how to grow your own food, cure your own meats, etc. and the author's son was a heroin addict, so I'm probably not a good judge, lol.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on May 15, 2011 19:38:06 GMT -5
OK, guys, would you have rather read about them getting tons of welfare or would you rather read that they made it on what they had??
I admire people who do what they have to do instead of moaning about how unfair life is.
Lena
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on May 15, 2011 19:39:54 GMT -5
Lena- I'm glad they didn't go on welfare, but they could have allowed their kids to play with other kids and not gone on welfare. That doesn't necessarily cost anything.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2011 19:46:11 GMT -5
The only income they have is the earnings on that money and a 14K pension. I missed the part where he had retired on the first go-round. You are right - 1 million is not a lot when you've retired in your 50's. Still - something about the attitude towards the kids freaks me out. I think it's the "The family is "emotionally self-contained," line. That seems strange to me.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on May 15, 2011 19:50:41 GMT -5
Toughtimes- a direct quote from the article- "The family is "emotionally self-contained," says Amy proudly. She likes her children to play with one another, not with other people's kids."
It is not healthy to discourage your children from making friends outside the family.
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Post by bobbysgirl on May 15, 2011 19:51:26 GMT -5
I think I feel really sorry for the kids, there is a balance in life and this family doesn't have it. Allowing your children to have friends doesn't cost THAT much but right now their kids are totally isolated, I predict that will back fire latter in life if it hasn't already. The truth is her kids are well adjusted and all have attended a 4 year college. The youngest one is just starting.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on May 15, 2011 19:53:28 GMT -5
According to who? Her? The kids? Other people who know the kids? It would be interesting to hear from an outside source. Her stating her kids are well adjusted is about a valuable as a parent who claims their 3 year old is a genius. Parents are biased.
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Post by bobbysgirl on May 15, 2011 20:00:10 GMT -5
According to who? Her? The kids? Other people who know the kids? It would be interesting to hear from an outside source. Her stating her kids are well adjusted is about a valuable as a parent who claims their 3 year old is a genius. Parents are biased. This information was gleaned during a conversation I had with her. We talked for 2 hours. Ok I listened for 2 hours and I'm old enough to know a BS artist. She is not. She is just like the rest of the ladies who are in my social circle. Loves her family and a proud mama and grandmom.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on May 15, 2011 20:02:03 GMT -5
Exactly, FN. My dad was a SAHD until my brother and sister were born, and had a similar attitude about "self-containment" - other than my cousins, I rarely interacted with other children until I was in school. My brother and sister, on the other hand, went to daycare and have always been MUCH better at small talk, networking, etc. and are much more extroverted than I am. Not letting your kids be around other kids is not necessarily a great way to raise them, IMO. (Not meant at all as a comment about SAHPs v. daycare - I know being a SAHP does not translate into not wanting your kids to play with anyone else, my dad is just a weirdo Although some of the tips in that article are valid and helpful, it seems like an extreme environment in which to raise children.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 15, 2011 20:07:48 GMT -5
This information was gleaned during a conversation I had with her. Which brings us back to the parents are biased thing. I'd be real curious to see what the kids would have to say if you spent a few hours talking to them though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2011 20:11:43 GMT -5
Thinking of toughtimes example I guess that part of living such a frugal lifestyle would mean discouraging socialization - otherwise you'd know what you are missing! I think homeschooling and keeping the kids out of social activities was how this family kept the kids happy with their lifestyle.
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Post by bobbysgirl on May 15, 2011 20:20:37 GMT -5
This information was gleaned during a conversation I had with her. Which brings us back to the parents are biased thing. I'd be real curious to see what the kids would have to say if you spent a few hours talking to them though. touche
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ruger2506
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Post by ruger2506 on May 15, 2011 20:20:48 GMT -5
The didn't live life. I think we all dream of being debt free and retiring early. But at what expense!?!?!? I would rather live like a millionaire and die broke vs. like I'm broke and die with millions. You can't take it with you!
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 15, 2011 20:23:26 GMT -5
If you are in this position, you will encourage your children to fish, camp, garden, sew, birdwatch, cook, build models, use handtools, fix cars etc. That's all fine, it was the encouraging them not to interact with anyone outside the family that sounds weird. We were poor when I was a kid so certain activities just weren't happening, but we were still allowed to go play with the neighborhood kids.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2011 20:26:47 GMT -5
What they describe is not what I call the good life. I would not be well adjusted growing up that way. Okay, I would be even more maladjusted! But you get my point.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on May 15, 2011 20:27:55 GMT -5
I find all the comments interesting. Some clarification. The kids were not home schooled and they did participate in the scouts.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on May 15, 2011 20:32:44 GMT -5
Well sure, but people HAVE to live that way when their income is less than 20K a year. Why do you think I take up the cudgel for some of the people who are disabled, between jobs or raising large families on small incomes? Poverty does exist. Thrift is sometimes a necessity. Of course, if you are the Collier Brothers and you have a million zillion dollars and let your mansion become a firetrap and a , you have a screw loose, but this is making the best of a bad situation and I applaud them for it. They are not sucking off Uncle Sugar's Sugar teat. More power to them. They didn't have to live off such a meager salary. The mom could have gotten a job (and eventually she did bring in money- which means they didn't rack up that retirement account on $18K/year)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2011 20:33:32 GMT -5
The kids were not home schooled I've got to stop commenting until I get some more sleep!
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 15, 2011 20:38:35 GMT -5
They are not sucking off Uncle Sugar's Sugar teat. More power to them. Right, but I wouldn't call barely leaving the house except to hit yard sales, the library, and the food emporium where they buy food that's already past it's use by date the good life either.
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ruger2506
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Post by ruger2506 on May 15, 2011 20:39:51 GMT -5
I guess it just points out to each their own. I wouldn't trade all my past, present and future debt for 10 seconds of the life they have been "living".
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 15, 2011 20:42:21 GMT -5
Jim's favorite stop, though, is Caswell's Liquidation Center, a repository for food items no longer ready for grocery prime time. In this dimly lit warehouse-style emporium reside dented cans, cornflakes whose packages are printed in Arabic and food that has passed its "sell by" date. That's right. "People are confused about those dates," insists Amy. "Often the date means only when the food is at the peak of quality. It doesn't go bad on that date." Recent Caswell hauls: mozzarella cheese two months past its sell date for $1.09 a pound, Grape-Nuts one year past their peak for 99[cents] for a one-pound box and half-gallons of ice cream with no date at all for $1. On this trip, Jim comes to a full stop before a display of green and red marshmallows shaped like Christmas trees. The bag is five months past the sell date, but the price is sweet: 43[cents] for a 10.5-ounce bag. Jim gives a pinch. "They're still soft," he says, tossing two bags into his cart. "I'll use these to make trail mix for the kids. I don't know about you, but that sounds downright disgusting to me. I dream of the day I don't have to work anymore, but if I have to eat questionable food to do it, I'd rather keep working.
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