Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on May 15, 2011 20:46:14 GMT -5
Tough- what they are denying their children are life enriching experiences, the ability to develop social skills at a critical time in their lives, the opportunity to fit in among their peers (I know horror- beyond horrors- Kids actually want their peers to like them? And that means sometimes getting new, name-brands clothes? Gasp!), and the freedom to make their own decisions about how they use their money and their time.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on May 15, 2011 20:49:12 GMT -5
Jim's favorite stop, though, is Caswell's Liquidation Center, a repository for food items no longer ready for grocery prime time. In this dimly lit warehouse-style emporium reside dented cans, cornflakes whose packages are printed in Arabic and food that has passed its "sell by" date. That's right. "People are confused about those dates," insists Amy. "Often the date means only when the food is at the peak of quality. It doesn't go bad on that date." Recent Caswell hauls: mozzarella cheese two months past its sell date for $1.09 a pound, Grape-Nuts one year past their peak for 99[cents] for a one-pound box and half-gallons of ice cream with no date at all for $1. On this trip, Jim comes to a full stop before a display of green and red marshmallows shaped like Christmas trees. The bag is five months past the sell date, but the price is sweet: 43[cents] for a 10.5-ounce bag. Jim gives a pinch. "They're still soft," he says, tossing two bags into his cart. "I'll use these to make trail mix for the kids. I don't know about you, but that sounds downright disgusting to me. I dream of the day I don't have to work anymore, but if I have to eat questionable food to do it, I'd rather keep working. yeah, i generally won't eat food that's more than a week past the date, and that includes dry goods
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on May 15, 2011 20:51:08 GMT -5
Guess what babe. I have and do eat plenty of food like that. So long as it is not disease ridden, many past their prime foods can be seasoned and used. Stale bread can be grated to create coarse breadcrumbs and then added to milk, egg and chopmeat for the most tender small meatballs you can cook. Over-ripe banannas can be made into smoothies that require little or no sugar. The marshmellows will be fine in a cup of homemade cocoa or mixed with cereal, dried fruit and nuts to make his trail mix. Again, if you make 100K and you live like a squirrel in a tree, for shame, but some people have to live like this including disabled and elderly on small incomes to name a few. Many in America live this way and worse so think of this when you are bashing the poverty cases. But they didn't have to live like that! Eating that way because you have no choice is one thing. Purposely making your kids eat that way because you don't want to work is just lazy and irresponsible.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 15, 2011 20:51:27 GMT -5
I'm not bashing the poverty cases, and they're choosing to live like this, they aren't forced into it. The husband retired at 41 and chooses to raise six kids on his pension of 18k a year. He or his wife could still work.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on May 15, 2011 20:53:32 GMT -5
They are living on under 20K a year and the family is not at all small. What are you complaining about? That they did not immediately apply for welfare and foodstamps? That they didn't get off their hind-ends and WORK to give their children a more enriched life!
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on May 15, 2011 20:53:43 GMT -5
I'm not complaining, I'm pointing out that I wouldn't call their lifestyle the good life. That's all. They survive on less than 20k a year and don't have to go to work. Good for them. I wouldn't trade my lifestyle for theirs though.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on May 15, 2011 21:00:03 GMT -5
They are living on under 20K a year and the family is not at all small. What are you complaining about? That they did not immediately apply for welfare and foodstamps? Pop is a military man. If he stayed in until he was 70 he would never make the big bucks. He wanted to spend time with the Mrs. and his kids and not be blown up by an IED the next time the President or Congress gets a wild hair. Who could blame him? Plenty of people really cannot wave a wand to become millionaires. Plenty of people retire from the military and go on to have other careers. And when he decided to have 6 kids, he had the responsibility to provide a good life for those kids, not just the bare necessities. By not working after 41, he bucked his responsibilities.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on May 15, 2011 21:04:38 GMT -5
I think they are working pretty darn hard. Mom wrote 4 books. How many have you guys written? Most of what they have has been built or repaired by mom or dad, bartered for etc. Their meals are home-cooked and their clothing home-sewn. This was the common way of life for many in the 1960s. We just don't see as much of this today. What is shocking is that they own everything they have free and clear and are not in debt up to their eye-teeth. If we had more like this, the entire Fiscal meltdown would not have occurred. You sound like you think that everyone that didn't grow up in the 60's just gets themselves into tons of debt and doesn't cook at home. The 60's were not the ideal time you made them out to be. Women had very few choices back then, and men did not value them. I cook at home, it would be a waste of time for me to sew my own clothes due to the availability of inexpensive clothing, buying good-quality new stuff is a better value to me than buying cheap stuff that needs fixed up. And people did have debt back in the 60's, and this is not the only "fiscal meltdown" in America's history. Young people are not the downfall of society you seem to think. In fact, many of the people at the tops of the companies that majorly contributed to this fiscal meltdown were middle-age and older- like people who grew up in the 60's.
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ruger2506
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Post by ruger2506 on May 15, 2011 21:05:19 GMT -5
Yet all of his children will be graduating college without debt. They have all had attention and care from their mom 24 hours a day 7 days a week and they are healthy and well. They have learned how to barter, cook, and sew, a terrible tragedy. I didn't read the article. Does it say how the kids paid for college? Our tax dollars perhaps?
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on May 15, 2011 21:06:21 GMT -5
Yet all of his children will be graduating college without debt. They have all had attention and care from their mom 24 hours a day 7 days a week and they are healthy and well. They have learned how to barter, cook, and sew, a terrible tragedy. But they have no social skills! I would rather have a few college loans, not know how to sew (although it isn't rocket science, come on), and still have my social skills. Bartering is a dead skill - in modern times we barter with MONEY. Social skills are necessary in today's world.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on May 15, 2011 21:08:06 GMT -5
On food, says Amy: "If there was a significant health risk from eating salvage food, there would be a law against consuming it."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2011 21:08:08 GMT -5
My husband will retire from the military in 4 years. He will be 42. We have 4 children and he plans on having a second career so that we can help them go to college and have experiences. I will also be working to help. Neither one of us think that our working life will be done when we hit our 40's.
In a few days my son is taking a 3 day trip to Washington D.C with his school. The cost $539 but the experience is priceless. My other son will be going on an overnight camping trip with his class. Cost $115 and again the experience IMHO is priceless.
We are also taking a family cruise in July. My husband is just coming back from Iraq and I felt like we deserved a family vacation after living apart for a year and a half. We could have put the money in savings, but I want life experiences too.
Their life may work for them, but it wouldn't work for me. I need to experience the outside world.
ETA: All of the above trips were paid for in Cash. Not a single cent was put on credit card. We saved for the cruise for almost 2 years.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on May 15, 2011 21:11:28 GMT -5
Yes, it is survivable, but who wants to merely survive? A life lived simply surviving is a wasted life.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on May 15, 2011 21:22:13 GMT -5
I see no reason to believe that their life is any less rich. How many people have all the toys and travel and dread every ring of the phone lest it be a skip-tracer from the debt collector. It reminds me of Aesop's Fable about the Country Mouse and the City Mouse. Country Mouse was all set to move in with his well-fed City Cousin until he learned about the cat. But you can have a few toys and travel some and still pay your bills. Not everybody that lives life is in debt. I'm not (save for a small student loan that my employer will pay off for me next time I sign a work contract, and my mortgage). I still don't see why the parents couldn't work and provide their children a better life. That doesn't mean I think they should have ran up debt to do it.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on May 15, 2011 21:23:00 GMT -5
The point I think most posters are trying to make is that it doesn't need to be THAT extreme if it doesn't have to be. There is plenty of middle ground between subsisting solely on expired food and forgoing vacations while holding on to millions in the bank, and being buried in debt due to overconsumption of "luxury" products and expensive vacations.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on May 15, 2011 21:23:35 GMT -5
FN, you beat me to it!
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on May 15, 2011 21:27:48 GMT -5
I grew up without being allowed activities like kids get these days. We were told no when something cost too much like little league, it was for the rich kids. We played baseball in the yard or in the street with the kids across the street. Food was things like deer dad shot or green beans we canned that we got free because we picked them in the summer. We caught fish and grew a garden. We raised rabbits for meat. We weren't really poor dad would buy a side of beef and we had normal groceries like bread and milk. flour, sugar etc but not prepared foods very often. A packet of gram crackers was enough to serve 5 people a treat with a little homemade frosting. We did get ice cream almost every night but our pies were home made from apples and cherries from our trees or blackberries we picked.
Movies were only when we kids saved our allowance for it and a movie took the entire allowance so it might be months between them. Vacations were to the ocean to dig clams or get oysters or to visit family, when at the ocean the aunt, uncle, grandparents and cousins all shared a rented cabin, kids can sleep on the floor in the living room. I only remember going out to eat once before I was 16 and a handful of 15cent hamburger meals. We didn't feel deprived it was just life. Dad worked construction so we moved most years so never developed close friendships. Mom didn't believe a mother should work so she cleaned houses, picked crops or took in ironing but never had a real job until we left home. She sewed many of my clothes including a beautiful formal I was to wear for graduation but it didn't work with the cap and gown so I got a different dress.
Back then no kids got store bought Halloween costumes or knew what brand their shoes were they were just shoes. I didn't know clothes had labels except my jeans were Wrangler.
This was fine in the 60s since most kids were raised that way we didn't feel bad at all. Now if all your friends are joining teams outside school and you can't you would feel bad. Also we could go out to play, ride bikes to a lake to fish without parents and other things little kids aren't allowed to do now.
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Poppet
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Post by Poppet on May 15, 2011 21:31:22 GMT -5
All the criticism has been said a billions times before about the Dycyzns. I suspect she stepped down from the frugal journalist career more because people were going nutso about her choices and she'd had enough.
What I really want to read is a current interview with her grown children.
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Poppet
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Post by Poppet on May 15, 2011 21:33:01 GMT -5
"People have more money than ever today and half of them are crazy, don't know their spouses or children or are running from the debt collector. That is no life either."
Amen. I must karmalize you.
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Ava
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Post by Ava on May 15, 2011 21:40:57 GMT -5
You only live once. And you can't take the money with you when you go.
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Poppet
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Post by Poppet on May 15, 2011 21:41:24 GMT -5
"But they have no social skills! I would rather have a few college loans, not know how to sew (although it isn't rocket science, come on), and still have my social skills."
I don't remember a college class called "Social Skills 101."
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DVM gone riding
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Post by DVM gone riding on May 15, 2011 21:59:35 GMT -5
Lena-if it was about making it on what you have I would say more power to them!!! But this is about making it on 1/3 of their income or at least their income potential since I think they both decided to stay home, but they had been making close to 60k together before that.
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luckyme
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Post by luckyme on May 15, 2011 22:01:12 GMT -5
I find it funny that so many here are complaining about lack of social skills, yet the kids went to school, Scouts, and college.
They all pretty much require socialization, so I would think they didn't suffer too much in that regard.
Would I live as they did, no, but we don't live like many here on the YM forum either. We simply don't have the money for it; a choice DH and I made for me not to work and raise our kids while he did. That entails lots of sacrifices.
Quite frankly, I see so many of my kids' friends, with dual income parents, who are spoiled rotten. I often think they are in for a rude awakening when mom and dad aren't there to pick up the bill. But then, maybe they will be those adults who can't seem to manage w/o help. Don't think that is a good way to live either.
I'm sure my kids would love to have everything their friends have, they want to be like them, but I don't think it's good for them, and wouldn't do it even if we did have the $$.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on May 15, 2011 22:14:17 GMT -5
I don't know why so many assuming that her kids had such horrible lives. Yes, I understand that no movies and no eating out and no vacations is almost abuse in today's world.
And let's face it - all those kids who do play with others end up so well. That's why I keep reading about all kinds of problems in schools with bullying and abuse and sex, etc etc etc.
Who knows, may be this woman just didn't like the kids that were around her children and so she didn't encourage it. We read one line from an article and the next minute we know the whole life story.
Lena
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on May 15, 2011 22:18:11 GMT -5
DVM,
The thing is, this is the lifestyle and choice that they made. They didn't ask for help or assistance, their kids "seem" (bc who the heck really knows) doing OK, so who are "we" to say that their choices were right or wrong. To each their own.
I just don't understand all the criticism she is getting...
Lena
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DVM gone riding
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Post by DVM gone riding on May 15, 2011 22:19:17 GMT -5
Laralei, what you just said sounds balanced and prioritized, the article didn't. They HAD money they HAD the potential to earn more of it. Yet they chose to eat post dated potentially unsafe food and to NEVER buy their kids new clothes. I had to wear a lot of cast off/hand me downs. it didn't ruin me but I prized the clothes I got new as a kid. I couldn't imagine NEVER having a new outfit, that just sucks.
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april47
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Post by april47 on May 15, 2011 22:22:57 GMT -5
The thing to remember is that everyone has their own interpretation of the "good life". Maybe they really enjoy staying at home and puttering in the garden. Maybe they would rather sit and read a book than go out partying and shopping. Some people don't want to travel the world attend concerts, or go to the movies. If you find enjoyment in a simple life and don't drink or smoke then you can live pretty cheap. If they are HAPPY that way then more power to them. That's better than being unhappy and trying to find happiness by buying mcmansions, sportscars, Movato watches and $1000 shoes.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2011 22:30:45 GMT -5
If it works for them, more power to them; but this is not what I consider the good life.
I was raised close to dirt poor, mom making less than 15-20K a year and I have no intent (if I can help it) on going back.
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stats45
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Post by stats45 on May 15, 2011 23:34:57 GMT -5
I actually read this book when I was younger (like 12) when I couldn't find anything to read at a friend's house. I liked some of the ideas, and I really think that it made me think about consumerism in a different way. I never have really cared much about 'living up to' my income in regards to clothes, shoes, gadgets, and things that I realized aren't really important to me.
Still, I could never forego the things that are really important to me, like travel or a wonderful meal out with friends just to be more frugal. I understand though and respect people who are more in a position of having to do this to live on a smaller income and choose to live this way to stay independent.
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on May 15, 2011 23:40:45 GMT -5
One thing that everyone needs to realize is that they lifestyle that the kids grew up in was "normal" - for them. For the most part they probably did not feel deprived because they knew nothing else.
And whether the kids grew up well-adjusted or not - no one seems to know. But kids grow up in varying types of households; some grow up to be well-adjusted, productive adults, and some do not - even when coming from the exact same household and upbringing.
I can be and have been REALLY frugal when I needed to be, but the lifestyle this family led is a bit too much - even for me. But I am not judging; I just wouldn't choose to live that way.
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