They're living the Good Life on $17580 a year

[Sum Dum Gai]

For the most part they probably did not feel deprived because they knew nothing else.

They went to public school, I'm sure they realized pretty quick that most of the other kids didn't live like they do. The article talks about one of the kids who was eleven at the time complaining that he'd never owned a new pair of shoes like the other kids got.

[dancinmama]

May 15, 2011 23:58:17 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

For the most part they probably did not feel deprived because they knew nothing else.

They went to public school, I'm sure they realized pretty quick that most of the other kids didn't live like they do. The article talks about one of the kids who was eleven at the time complaining that he'd never owned a new pair of shoes like the other kids got.

I COMPLETELY understand what you are saying, but it's no different than any other kid wanting anything else that another kid has that they themselves do not - say Nikes instead of shoes from PayLess. The exception to me would be IF the kids were embarrassed and/or teased because of the way they look. I would hope that that was not the case. But as far as their lifestyle and the way the household was operated - it would not seem as strange to them as it does to us.

[973beachbum]

May 16, 2011 4:11:17 GMT -5 dancinmama said:

May 15, 2011 23:58:17 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

For the most part they probably did not feel deprived because they knew nothing else.

They went to public school, I'm sure they realized pretty quick that most of the other kids didn't live like they do. The article talks about one of the kids who was eleven at the time complaining that he'd never owned a new pair of shoes like the other kids got.

I COMPLETELY understand what you are saying, but it's no different than any other kid wanting anything else that another kid has that they themselves do not - say Nikes instead of shoes from PayLess. The exception to me would be IF the kids were embarrassed and/or teased because of the way they look. I would hope that that was not the case. But as far as their lifestyle and the way the household was operated - it would not seem as strange to them as it does to us.

If this was a coat or jeans from the thrift store I would agree. As a kid we wore hand me down shoes from older siblings and I can tell you that once one person has worn shoes for a while they will never be comfortable for anyone else. There is probably something worse than having your feet hurt all day, everyday, but to me probably not much.

One other weird part is that I live in a very HCOL. Reading the article it had parts that mentioned prices and I know I can get food for the same prices at my regular store and I promise you I am not courting botulism to do it.

At heart I am a minimalist, but I do try and have a few things that the kids or we enjoy. I also find lots of activities that are free or very low cost such as zoo, museums and the beach. ;D I also encourage them to go and play with their friends.

To me there is a big difference between trying to save money and wanting your family to interact with the outside world as little as possible. JMO

[happyscooter]

I can remember when my children were in elementary school and they would have birthday parties. A few of the kids over the years had to decline. They would tell my sons that their parents said they couldn't come because they couldn't afford a gift. Now, I can't believe that a parent would actually tell a child that. Wait, yes I do believe that. My sons would say to me 'they don't have to buy me anything, I just want them to come.' I'm not sure if that was the excuse the parent used or if they really couldn't afford a gift. Or maybe they thought my sons would say 'come anyway.' But I hope these kids (Re: this thread) weren't deprived of friendships for this reason.

[happyscooter]

We do know of a few boys my sons ages that were never allowed to do anything unless it was going to benefit them in later years. They could participate in scouts because they could earn their Eagle when they got in High School and it would look good for college. But they couldn't play rec sports ($20 entrance fee) because there wouldn't be anything to accomplish with this.

[Gardening Grandma]

May 15, 2011 21:05:19 GMT -5 ruger2506 said:

May 15, 2011 21:03:53 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Yet all of his children will be graduating college without debt. They have all had attention and care from their mom 24 hours a day 7 days a week and they are healthy and well. They have learned how to barter, cook, and sew, a terrible tragedy.

I didn't read the article. Does it say how the kids paid for college? Our tax dollars perhaps?

The parents saved up enough for 4 years of college for each of the 6 kids. All of the kids did go to college.

Also, each of the kids received an allowance. They could spend it as they chose.

[Deleted]

I just don't understand why he didn't keep working and provide more for them. There must be some "moral" things they could have enjoyed with more resources.

[Gardening Grandma]

May 15, 2011 20:32:44 GMT -5 Frugal Nurse said:

May 15, 2011 20:29:43 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

Well sure, but people HAVE to live that way when their income is less than 20K a year. Why do you think I take up the cudgel for some of the people who are disabled, between jobs or raising large families on small incomes? Poverty does exist. Thrift is sometimes a necessity. Of course, if you are the Collier Brothers and you have a million zillion dollars and let your mansion become a firetrap and a , you have a screw loose, but this is making the best of a bad situation and I applaud them for it.

They are not sucking off Uncle Sugar's Sugar teat. More power to them.

They didn't have to live off such a meager salary. The mom could have gotten a job (and eventually she did bring in money- which means they didn't rack up that retirement account on $18K/year)

"The mom could have gotten a job"
She DID have a job. She published a newsletter for $12/yr with 100,000 subscribers. I doubt she could have made as much as she did as a graphic artist (her previous job which she did not care for)

[bobbysgirl]

May 15, 2011 20:53:32 GMT -5 Frugal Nurse said:

May 15, 2011 20:52:10 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

They are living on under 20K a year and the family is not at all small. What are you complaining about? That they did not immediately apply for welfare and foodstamps?

That they didn't get off their hind-ends and WORK to give their children a more enriched life!

FRUGAL: Could you define "enriched life" please.

[bobbysgirl]

May 16, 2011 8:25:48 GMT -5 @justaposter said:

I just don't understand why he didn't keep working and provide more for them. There must be some "moral" things they could have enjoyed with more resources.

I know he works now (in retirement). Maybe he took a vacation back then.

[bobbysgirl]

May 16, 2011 5:50:22 GMT -5 @toughtimes said:

The worst thing I ever say, and something that put me off on designer clothes for good, was the sight of a classmate of mine shivering in the cold on a February Day because several thugs coveted his expensive, prestige jacket and simply took it. Could all of them wear it at once? Would they make a fortune fencing it?

I always thought that this was a form of idolatry. A coat is a coat, but when you fetishize it at and turn it into an object of desire, this is what happens. The lack of charity alone. It reminded me of the story in the Lives of the Saints where a Roman Legionaire tears his cloak in half to wrap around a naked beggar. This was the same story reversed.

As many and more bad things come from teaching greed and covetousness than being overly-tight with a buck.

You just got some Karma. Very nice thoughts.

[Gardening Grandma]

Here's a link to a recent (last year) video clip interview with her.

thenonconsumeradvocate.com/2010/05/amy-dacyczyn-of-the-tightwad-gazette/


At the very end, she shows a drawing that her daughter had given her titled "The Post College Frugal Apartment". Any said that this was from the daughter who had complained the most growing up...

[HoneyBBQ]

I'm all for growing your own produce and shopping at thrift stores... but I think that one thing that has changed substantially from my childhood and my parent's childhoods is that the world is a global community now. We're not scared of the Russians any more - we can GO to Moscow and learn about their country. I think it's wrong for children to not be exposed to history, other cultures, other ways of living. I think that is a disservice. Seeing how other people live is gaining perspective that nothing else will give you.

[swamp]

May 16, 2011 7:40:26 GMT -5 happyscooter said:

We do know of a few boys my sons ages that were never allowed to do anything unless it was going to benefit them in later years. They could participate in scouts because they could earn their Eagle when they got in High School and it would look good for college. But they couldn't play rec sports ($20 entrance fee) because there wouldn't be anything to accomplish with this.

A sports skill, team work, goal setting, socialization, and fitness is useless?

[Gardening Grandma]

The Dacyzcns took a lot of criticism in their day, but what I saw was a couple who decided what they wanted:
A large family
A big house with a barn
A stay at home parent

And they found a way to achieve that - and more. The newsletter she put out consisted of tips - some of them were hers and some were sent to her by readers. She didn't necessarily advocate doing all the things she did. She DID feel that she wanted to make the information available so that people could choose for themselves.

While I would not go to some of the extremes they did, I have to point out that their kids will never be posting on YM about student loans or parents who have nothing for retirement!!! ;D

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I read the Tightwad Gazette and the one thing that bothered me was she had a recipe for homemade formula. What irritated me wasn't that it was in there, it was that she basically said you shouldn't do that BUT here are some reasons why you can justify it.

Sorry, short of a zombie apocolypse I am not feeding my newborn a mixture of powdered milk and corn syrup. There are so many ways you can save on formula that don't involve making your own. You can coupon, buy generics and sometimes can even score free cans from the hospital/pediatrician's office.

If you are too poor to do those things poor you probably qualify for WIC.

Then if you can't do any of that you got boobs. No it isn't easy for everyone and being a working breastfeeding mom comes with some unique challengs it still beats the hell out of feeding my kid corn syrup.

Especially to save a buck!

[Gardening Grandma]

dq,
This was about 15 years ago. (Pre WIC).
When my kids were babies (in the 60's) a typical formula was made from evaporated milk with a bit of corn syrup in it. Commercial formula, while available, was not widely used.


Some of the tips ARE dated.... She may come out with an abridged version to bring it more up to date. In recent interviews she's talked about the internet as the current best resource for frugal living. In TTG, (in the 90's) she didn't consider the internet much of a resource. She has totally changed her view there.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I'd have to go back and look but I am pretty sure the "but" part is somewhat recent compared to the actual recipe that was printed. Because she talks a lot about "breast being best" and that's a pretty recent ad campagin.

I could be wrong and I know my SIL was fed Carnation milk. It just rubbed me the wrong way.

[8 Bit WWBG]

Before I started reading, I knew one of the questions I'd have to see answered is "and how much did they make on the books/newsletters".

I agree with what it seems many posters have already said. $1M isn't that much, and certainly not at the expense of the things that make life worth living.

[Gardening Grandma]

Yeah, I understand...

One of the points that was not made in the Money story, but has been made over and over in interviews and the book/newsletters is that frugal living is not an either/or decision. It's a continuium. And folks with more resources don't need to resort to the extreme measures that they chose to.

She made a point of saying, however, that some of her readers WERE in dire situations and needed to have all the information that she could possibly provide so that they'd have choices and optioins.

[Gardening Grandma]

Before I started reading, I knew one of the questions I'd have to see answered is "and how much did they make on the books/newsletters".

Well, over several years, they made several hundred thousand on the newsletters ($12/yr per subscription and they had a max of 100,000 subscribers). Plus she gets royalties on the books.

I agree with what it seems many posters have already said. $1M isn't that much, and certainly not at the expense of the things that make life worth living.

I would point out that 15 years ago, $1M was more than it is now. Also, they may have had more, they would only say that their net worth was "about $1M".

And, $1M goes further when you have a paid off home, no debts, healthcare for life, a modest pension and a very modest lifestyle.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I'll admit I've been on here so long that a lot of what I read in Tightwad I'd already learned on SS or WIR. ;D

[Gardening Grandma]

May 16, 2011 9:58:31 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I'll admit I've been on here so long that a lot of what I read in Tightwad I'd already learned on SS or WIR. ;D

SS and WIR didn't exist when Tightwad was written. ;D

[bobbysgirl]

She DID have a job. She published a newsletter for $12/yr with 100,000 subscribers. I doubt she could have made as much as she did as a graphic artist (her previous job which she did not care for)

The newsletter was profitable for 4 years. 1.2 million x 4 = 4.8 million. Plus the books. Plus they kept gardening and creating needed items out of free or inexpensive materials. She was a go getter. YM material, if you ask me.

[luckyme]

{......not at the expense of the things that make life worth living. }

Yes, but that's YOUR definition. People are different, with different value, standards, dreams, etc.

{ we can GO to Moscow and learn about their country. I think it's wrong for children to not be exposed to history, other cultures, other ways of living. I think that is a disservice. Seeing how other people live is gaining perspective that nothing else will give you }

Well, there are many people who don't live the extreme thrift they do and still couldn't do these things; I know we can't. IF I worked full time, we probably could do more things that cost $$, but that was not our priority when we started having kids. So, we forgo much of this, while I have been a SAHP. Personal choices, personal priorities. Did my kids miss out on some things, yes. Do I consider them more important, no.

[april47]

They didn't have canned formula forever you know. I made mine with a "formula" the doctor gave me. I think it was some kind of canned milk, water and corn syrup.We didn't have disposable diapers either. Most moms stayed home and there was only one car. One small black and white TV. When did we all start feeling that if we don't have all this stuff that our children will be deprived and we would be bad parents?

[Deleted]

Reading the article it had parts that mentioned prices and I know I can get food for the same prices at my regular store and I promise you I am not courting botulism to do it. [image]

They'd throw all their leftovers into a bucket in the freezer and then turn it into one large soup. They also used weird leftovers to make their "muffins." To be fair if you have a very restricted diet (she admits in an interview to only allowing her children to eat so much a day) then it's probably easier.

[Gardening Grandma]

I have to chuckle when posters write about things as if they had always existed: WIC, coupons, commercial formula, disposable diapers, color TV, the internet,

When my kids were small, few of these were available and what was available was either very expensive (commercial formula) or of poor quality (disposable diapers) or both.

[8 Bit WWBG]

...:::"I would point out that 15 years ago, $1M was more than it is now. Also, they may have had more, they would only say that their net worth was "about $1M".":::...

Well, $1M invested properly 15 years ago (between the market, rental properties, side businesses, micro-lending, venture capital...) could be worth many multiples of that today. Add in speaking jobs, appearances on shows, follow up books... and she'd be doing very well.

...:::"Yes, but that's YOUR definition. People are different, with different value, standards, dreams, etc.":::...

I am not the only one to say so. Your point has merit of course, but I still feel that the family took it considerably farther than most people would deem reasonable. I am not turning my nose up at the tips. I am just saying that if you tell your kids that they can't do at least ONE activity, then you really have to consider the non-financial costs of that decision.

[cronewitch]

When did commercial formula become popular? I am thinking the 80s or 90s when parents decided powdered in a can was better than canned milk based formula. I remember my little cousin loving canned milk straight from the can because he got used to it in a bottle.

I have never been around babies to see what they drink so really don't know what is even in the commercial formula and why it might be better or worse or what BPH is.