NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 17, 2011 15:51:07 GMT -5
Where was that at? If I drank a litre of vodka I'd be passed out on the floor, no beach hopping for me. ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) Swamp, the same advice applies to being married to an addict. You can't molly coddle them forever or make excuses. You need to draw the line in the sand and then follow thru with it. It has to be THEIR choice to get help (which is why they often relapse on Intervention), but you can make it very clear that there is a "wrong" one for you and there are consequences. They are free to choose however they want, you just need to be prepared to follow thru if they decide they want to continue being an addict.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 17, 2011 15:55:30 GMT -5
I agree an addict has to be held to the same standard, but it's a little tougher to get through to them because there is no logic behind the addiction.
The part about the liter of vodka is at post 92.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 17, 2011 15:56:09 GMT -5
Consider also that him demonstrating he is willing to get tough, and even walk, may be JUST what she needs to shape up. The point has been made over and over that she has no reason to change. Well if she stands to lose her comfy trimmings, or her husband/life as she knows it, then she'll realize that she is no longer dealing with idle threats and she has to make some hard choices.
I personally wouldn't want my partner to stay with me out of necessity, or so he wouldn't lose his nice things/standard of living. I want him to WANT to be with me, or I don't want him at all.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 17, 2011 15:58:15 GMT -5
If she's got an alcohol addiction, nothing is going to change until she realizes she has a problem. And yes, I think someone who drinks a liter of vodka in one sitting has a problem.
I doubt she drinks it by herself. Two adult women can easily put away a liter of vodka over the course of a day, especially if BFF's husband is helping.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 17, 2011 16:00:41 GMT -5
If she's got an alcohol addiction, nothing is going to change until she realizes she has a problem. And yes, I think someone who drinks a liter of vodka in one sitting has a problem. I doubt she drinks it by herself. Two adult women can easily put away a liter of vodka over the course of a day, especially if BFF's husband is helping. Or one person with a problem can drink the whole liter themselves. I'd like to hear what OP has to say about it.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on May 17, 2011 16:04:54 GMT -5
...:::"I personally wouldn't want my partner to stay with me out of necessity, or so he wouldn't lose his nice things/standard of living. I want him to WANT to be with me, or I don't want him at all.":::...
I think everyone says that, but when push comes to shove there is a large combination of factors in being with "someone". Plenty of people stay with someone they hate for money or security or prestige.
Nevertheless, lets pretend that this could end happy and the wife really does care about the OP and not the lifestyle. When losing him becomes not only a possibility, but an inevitability, then she has to choose whether to shape up or let him leave. Like DQ said, the OP has to draw the line in the sand and say "I will not tolerate this destructive behavior anymore, so if your selfish wants are more important than the well being of your family, don't expect me to stick around".
Then, follow through... follow through. If she calls your bluff and you fold, you are done for.
...:::"The part about the liter of vodka is at post 92.":::...
Ahhhh this makes more sense now. I wondered what a litter was. I was thinking of a 12 pack of cute little kitten sized bottles all wagging their tails.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 17, 2011 16:06:36 GMT -5
Are you still in this, CME? Do you see yourself with your wife in 20 years? 40? What does that picture look like? You're using personal pronouns in all of your posts. I haven't noticed much use of "we" or "ours" from you. Does that tell you anything? Yes and no. I love my wife, I can't see 20-40 years down the road. (I'm 36 and have had 2 stress induced heart-attacks (job related), that's why I went from a well paying job to one where I make the bills, so to speak). The money that "disappeared" didn't vanish all at once, as I've stated it was years ago. I know that I allowed this situation to develop into what it is by my actions, working 16 hours a day 6 days a week. My actions of bringing in the money and not caring what was being done as long as food was in the house, bills were paid and the kids were taken care of. What I was looking for were hints/tips/nudges for opening her eyes in the fact that if my money isn't my money then her money isn't her money.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 17, 2011 16:07:07 GMT -5
Or one person with a problem can drink the whole liter themselves. I'd like to hear what OP has to say about it.
Also true. And anyway, she shouldn't be driving 100 miles after she's been drinking all day.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 17, 2011 16:08:49 GMT -5
...:::"The part about the liter of vodka is at post 92.":::... Ahhhh this makes more sense now. I wondered what a litter was. I was thinking of a 12 pack of cute little kitten sized bottles all wagging their tails. No, that's a litter of Red Cat wine from the Hazlitt winery in the Finger Lakes.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 17, 2011 16:09:41 GMT -5
If she's got an alcohol addiction, nothing is going to change until she realizes she has a problem. And yes, I think someone who drinks a liter of vodka in one sitting has a problem. I doubt she drinks it by herself. Two adult women can easily put away a liter of vodka over the course of a day, especially if BFF's husband is helping. Or one person with a problem can drink the whole liter themselves. I'd like to hear what OP has to say about it. Between them, drinking one day a week or less is not indicative of a problem to me.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 17, 2011 16:10:03 GMT -5
I know that I allowed this situation to develop into what it is by my actions, working 16 hours a day 6 days a week. My actions of bringing in the money and not caring what was being done as long as food was in the house, bills were paid and the kids were taken care of.
That's definitely something to consider. Maybe you liked being the breadwinner and felt secure in your role as long as you were providing and it was all working out, and you figured that everything at home would take care of itself?
I've seen that happen before and it can get nasty. Bringing in a paycheck is nice but it doesn't mean you can check out from the goings-on at home. Sounds like you might be in the process of learning that one the hard way.
I think everyone says that, but when push comes to shove there is a large combination of factors in being with "someone". Plenty of people stay with someone they hate for money or security or prestige.
I'm sure that's true, but I'm speaking only for myself here. I don't want someone who doesn't want to be with me. That's definitely true now and to a certain extent, it will still be true after I'm married.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 17, 2011 16:10:59 GMT -5
Or one person with a problem can drink the whole liter themselves. I'd like to hear what OP has to say about it. Between them, drinking one day a week or less is not indicative of a problem to me. I don't see a problem with drinking one day a week either, but it's the amount she's drinking. You can be an alcoholic even if you don't drink every day.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 17, 2011 16:11:39 GMT -5
Between them, drinking one day a week or less is not indicative of a problem to me.
Not necessarily, but I would say it depends on how much they're drinking. A liter of wine between two people (it's "liter," by the way; "litter" is what you call a group of baby animals after they're born, hence WWBG's comment) is probably okay but if they're getting trashed, that could be a problem.
Especially if she's driving afterward.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 17, 2011 16:15:10 GMT -5
Between them, drinking one day a week or less is not indicative of a problem to me. Not necessarily, but I would say it depends on how much they're drinking. A liter of wine between two people (it's "liter," by the way; "litter" is what you call a group of baby animals after they're born, hence WWBG's comment) is probably okay but if they're getting trashed, that could be a problem. Especially if she's driving afterward. sorry, I fixed it. Fat fingered it and didn't read before posting.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on May 17, 2011 16:42:34 GMT -5
...:::"sorry, I fixed it. Fat fingered it and didn't read before posting.":::...
All the problems you are having, and THIS is what you comment on? Litters, and dropping that bomb about 2 heart attacks before age 36?
Let me try a different angle: what do you really want here? If you just want her to pony up for more expenses, but asking in a civilized manner has failed, what other options are you willing to try? I foresee a lot of "I can't/I won't" responses which limit if not rule out entirely any courses of action that have a chance at getting you what you want.
The same advice given to you can be turned against you too. You have demonstrated that you are fine with how things have gone, where fine means, you've not challenged them.
Let me put it this way: so long as she knows that contributing more is a choice, she will choose not to.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on May 17, 2011 16:54:02 GMT -5
...:::"but I think this is a sure-fire way to get them to a divorce quicker":::... And this is a bad thing... why? He hired a PI to follow her around. She visits a friend weekly budget be damned. What are we saving here? It may not be a bad thing, if he is ready to face a divorce as a consequence of standing up for himself. He has to decide if he is ready to follow through & divorce, or if he is just going to back down in a battle of wills & she will continue living as she does. Or one person with a problem can drink the whole liter themselves. I'd like to hear what OP has to say about it. Between them, drinking one day a week or less is not indicative of a problem to me. Alcoholism isn't about the amount you drink, it is about how the alcohol impacts your life. You can drink 1 day/wk & be an alcoholic, you can drink daily & not be an alcoholic. Considering she is choosing to get drunk while leaving the kids at the babysitter & she is not helping financially with the bills, but rather spend the money on drinking, you might want to reconsider the impact of alcohol in her life & whether or not she has a problem.
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dianartemis
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Post by dianartemis on May 17, 2011 16:57:41 GMT -5
I love my wife, I can't see 20-40 years down the road. (I'm 36 and have had 2 stress induced heart-attacks (job related), that's why I went from a well paying job to one where I make the bills, so to speak). Have you flat out said that the money situation is stressing you out and you need to discuss it with her? You've had 2 heart attacks and I hope you don't have another, but she needs to know the financial situation too. My mother is the head-in-the-sand when it comes to $$ matters. It really stressed my dad. They talked about it, she now knows what it's for and where it goes.
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 17, 2011 17:02:24 GMT -5
WeWillBackGowron Said "Let me try a different angle: what do you really want here? If you just want her to pony up for more expenses, but asking in a civilized manner has failed, what other options are you willing to try? I foresee a lot of "I can't/I won't" responses which limit if not rule out entirely any courses of action that have a chance at getting you what you want."
I'm willing to try anything. We have a night this week (Thursday) where we are going to sit and talk, I am going to layout the budget and discuss our situation. I see a 2/3 1/3 split as fair.
I only mentioned the heart attacks because it is a cloud that hangs over me blocking seeing years down the road.
I've read every reply in the thread thus far, I learn more by listening (reading in this case) than by talking, absorbing what people's thoughts are, making me think.
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oreo
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Post by oreo on May 17, 2011 17:04:32 GMT -5
cme, I just wanted to mention that if you don't see this relationship as being long-term, you'll have just made more years of payments on the house and you'll lose even more money the longer you stay (I'm just saying that the "I'm out a lot of money" statement may only get worse). Plus if you are contributing to a 401K or pension, you could lose 1/2 of that too. You need to do something to protector yourself if you don't see this lasting.
I feel badly for your situation and wish you a lot of luck and hope you find an ultimately satisfying solution to your problem.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on May 17, 2011 17:08:07 GMT -5
I'm willing to try anything. We have a night this week (Thursday) where we are going to sit and talk, I am going to layout the budget and discuss our situation. I see a 2/3 1/3 split as fair.
[snip]
I've read every reply in the thread thus far, I learn more by listening (reading in this case) than by talking, absorbing what people's thoughts are, making me think.
I think these two things combined are fine for now. A lot of people are quick to recommend divorce on this board, which can seem out of the blue if you're used to the status quo.
So it's good to think things over and not make any snap decisions based on other people's five-minute opinions. In the meantime, have some hard talks with the wife. That will probably clarify things for you.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 18, 2011 8:09:59 GMT -5
I'm sure that's true, but I'm speaking only for myself here. I don't want someone who doesn't want to be with me. That's definitely true now and to a certain extent, it will still be true after I'm married
I can't either, which is the marital counseler's point about setting an ultimatum. If DH is getting to have his cake and eat it too WHY would he leave me, especially if I turn a blind eye to the situation.
Drawing the line in the sand regarding the consequences of his actions sends the message that it is either time to be on board with me or there is the door.
Some get on board, some walk out the door. You have to be prepared for either decision.
It should be a LAST resort, I never ever EVER use divorce as a threat to get DH to do what I want because I have to be prepared for him to say that's okay.
I'd say just based from the posts the OP's relationship is probably at the point of get on board or get out, but he's not ready yet for her to choose "get out".
Some people do not learn the nice ways the marital counselers and other people tell you that they should. Some people only learn when the consequences are so dire they have no choice but to get their butts in gear.
And hopefully it's a one time thing and you can work together, probably with counseling to get your marriage back on track.
Some you have to repeat it and you have to ask yourself how long you want to keep riding someone's ass to get them to cooperate.
Then others don't learn at all and keep going about their selfish ways.
But you can't be a human doormat forever and when a situation has gotten to the point of the OP's you can't sit around and wait for that person to see the light thru your logic and reason.
If they were reasonable and logical, they wouldn't be dragging the family down in the first place.
It really leaves a sour taste in your mouth to say "Do this or get out", but sometimes it's what it takes. We can all pretend that it should never come to that in a marriage, but that's in a perfect world.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 12:10:32 GMT -5
cme, I'm not married, so feel free to ignore my advice. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) You use to bring home a lot more money, but it cost you big-time as far as your health. Now you work a job that's not as costly health-wise, but the money doesn't flow as freely. If I were your wife my concern for your health would require that I support you in the job change even though my lifestyle would be impacted. If that meant I had to pay some bills out of my paycheck, I think that would be a small price to pay to help reduce the risk of you working yourself to death. I'm a selfish person by nature, but not THAT selfish. As usual on these types of threads, your problem is much bigger than your wife refusing to pay any bills. The BFF weekly visits, regardless of what she's actually doing, I think that's a problem. There's 2 families where the wives leave the families every single weekend to hang out together? Aside from the fact that your family really can't afford it, I just don't see how that's appropriate. But then again, I'm single. You and your wife aren't coming from the same place regarding your marriage. How she views the marriage determines her actions, including what she's willing to do about the finances. It's not as simple as convincing her to pay a few bills. There's some belief she's holding on to that justifies (in her mind) not contributing financially. That's what has to be addressed.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 18, 2011 12:12:19 GMT -5
I'd say she moved on many years ago and is staying for God only knows what reason.
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sil
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Post by sil on May 18, 2011 12:50:25 GMT -5
CME - 2 heart attacks at the age of 36?!
You need to make your wife grow up and fast. I'm sorry, but if she's not living her life now as if she might become a single mom supporting those kids at any time, then you have to force her to do so, for the sake of the kids.
Heck, divorce her if that's what it takes to force her to start acting like a parent. Your kids' future hangs in the balance here.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on May 18, 2011 12:55:43 GMT -5
...:::"you'll have just made more years of payments on the house and you'll lose even more money the longer you stay":::...
Not to mention that she can bleed you for more alimony. Your situation may very well be one of those sad "its cheaper to keep her" types. It would suck majorly to divorce, only to have her be able to keep her standard of living at your expense while you live in a cruddy efficiency using a lawn chair as a bed.
...:::"I see a 2/3 1/3 split as fair.":::...
You need to be prepared for the fact that she may say whatever she needs to say to get you off her back, but not follow through. Or she'll make good for a little while, then things will regress to normal. Are you prepared for the fact that she may NOT shoulder more of the load? What will you do?
I agree with the sentiment that you may not be ready to lay down an ultimatum, but you need to be prepared to stand up for yourself. You can be firm without threatening divorce. You can discuss openly and honestly a new budget, but if she does not shoulder more of the responsibility or cut the spending, then you have to be prepared to ACT.
You need to (possibly with our help) take stock of what leverage you have at your command. Of most importance and usefulness will be anything she values that you can take away. If you own the car, then you don't have to let her take it every weekend (I still want clarification on whether that leaves you stranded). If you pay for gas, then don't fill the tank. If you fill the fridge with delicious food, STOP.
She is going to bank on the fact that you won't hurt "the family" but just because you stop paying doesn't mean you alone are hurting the family. If you stop paying, and she actively chooses not to pick up the slack, then she is JUST as complicit as you are. Why should she get to tell you that you are starving your family, if she herself is still spending money that COULD go to food/gas/heat on trips to see the bestie?
A small part of me also wonders how the bestie's husband feels. Does he approve of all the time they spend together? Are HIS needs neglected? Or is he right there with them like those beer commercials where the hot sister scams drinks out of guys for her brother and his friends?
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cme1201
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Post by cme1201 on May 18, 2011 13:36:16 GMT -5
WeWillBackGowron said: "You need to (possibly with our help) take stock of what leverage you have at your command. Of most importance and usefulness will be anything she values that you can take away. If you own the car, then you don't have to let her take it every weekend (I still want clarification on whether that leaves you stranded). If you pay for gas, then don't fill the tank. If you fill the fridge with delicious food, STOP."
The car is in both of our names. As far as being stranded, most places I go are within walking distance, the only time I get straded so to speak is if I won't to do something with the kids and she has the car, I can schedule time to get it, (which I know is sad and stupid).
As far as her bbf's husband goes he is mostly with them.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 18, 2011 13:45:26 GMT -5
As far as being stranded, most places I go are within walking distance, the only time I get straded so to speak is if I won't to do something with the kids and she has the car, I can schedule time to get it, (which I know is sad and stupid).Wow. Okay, now that I am over the shock of reading that, it is YOUR car too dude! Fuck your wife and her travel plans, take the damn car first thing in the morning and go do something fun with your kids! No way I'd be sitting at home with the kids waiting for my scheduled time with the car after my spouse was done having his fun.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on May 18, 2011 14:01:24 GMT -5
snarky comment here - do you have life insurance in an adequate amount to support the kids and the wife if you do have a fatal heart attack? Because if you do and she knows it or BELIEVES that you do, she may very well have ulterior motives here. Plus she'd get some kind of SSI for the kids... I don't know you or your wife. But it's an angle that's occurred to me and may very well have occurred to your wife or her BFF.
I don't mean to be mean and nasty but DH and I are in the process of dealing with life insurance, etc. so it came to mind...
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on May 18, 2011 14:02:13 GMT -5
As far as being stranded, most places I go are within walking distance, the only time I get straded so to speak is if I won't to do something with the kids and she has the car, I can schedule time to get it, (which I know is sad and stupid).Wow. Okay, now that I am over the shock of reading that, it is YOUR car too dude! Fuck your wife and her travel plans, take the damn car first thing in the morning and go do something fun with your kids! No way I'd be sitting at home with the kids waiting for my scheduled time with the car after my spouse was done having his fun. I know drama. I'd be totally nuts not having wheels with the kids.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on May 18, 2011 14:03:23 GMT -5
At the very least, just stop putting gas in the vehicle. If she bitches & says now she can't drive the kids to school, then offer to take over driving the kids to school & take the car with you to work from then on.
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