2024 Paris Summer Olympics - Opening

[Spellbound454]

and louder still for those with their heads in the sand

SHE'S NOT A WOMAN>

[chiver78]

did you even click the fucking link I posted, from a medical organization, about Swyer Syndrome? go read that and come back. until then, keep your head in the sand. have a nice night, you're raising my blood pressure for being deliberately obtuse and argumentative, and I'm not entertaining that anymore today. 

[pulmonarymd]

Aug 5, 2024 16:57:10 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

What has convinced you that someone who was born and has lived her entire life as female is "technically" a man?

If your chromosomes say you are not female ............you are not female ............... and it doesn't matter a jot how you were raised.

and you should not be eligible for a female only sport.

  but I think a tad more should be required.

and the IOC have made absolutely no checks.... nothing at all.

Algeria recognizes her as the woman she is. Algeria, the Muslim country where it is literally illegal to be any of the letters in LGBTQ. Algeria is going to allow someone other than a woman to represent them in the Olympics? come on, now.

Just because Algeria doesn't recognise anything but male or female ......... doesn't make it true.


Actually I don't care what syndrome, intersex or technicality this person has.

If she is genetically not female and has heightened testosterone .......... then she should not be competing because it would be an unfair advantage
over women who are competing in a women only sport.


and I'm not happy seeing women getting smacked in the face by a man.

Ever hear of a condition called androgen insensitivity syndrome. These individuals are born XY, but are insensitive the effects of testosterone. They do not develop male secondary sexual characteristics, and do not go through male puberty. They are typically raised female and have female genitalia. By all looks they are female. Fighting against a man because they are male to you since they have a Y chromosome would be unfair because they are not male. How does that fit in your universe. It is a rare genetic abnormality. Biology is far more complex than you want to admit. You know nothing about her medical history, and even if she has a Y chromosome, she is female.
You rail against America and Americans being backwards. How does it feel to be in the other side

[pulmonarymd]

Aug 5, 2024 17:04:37 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

and louder still for those with their heads in the sand

SHE'S NOT A WOMAN>

MAYBE YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO SOMEONE WHO KNOWS MORE ABOUT MEDICINE THAN YOU DO.

If she has the condition I outlined, her testosterone level could be 10,000 and it wouldn’t matter. She is incapable of responding to testosterone since she lacks a receptor that makes it happen. She is no more a man than you are

[Spellbound454]

and again, I don't care.

I care about the rights of women competing in women only sport ........ and not being disadvantaged.


You cant make policy based on one person whatever the issue is .......... its got to be for the majority.

and half the population are female.




There's a reason we don't put Mike Tyson in with boxers of a different weight/sex .......... ie its dangerous.

Other boxers compete in their category.

[chiver78]

Aug 5, 2024 17:12:47 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Aug 5, 2024 16:57:10 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

If your chromosomes say you are not female ............you are not female ............... and it doesn't matter a jot how you were raised.

and you should not be eligible for a female only sport.

and the IOC have made absolutely no checks.... nothing at all.

Just because Algeria doesn't recognise anything but male or female ......... doesn't make it true.


Actually I don't care what syndrome, intersex or technicality this person has.

If she is genetically not female and has heightened testosterone .......... then she should not be competing because it would be an unfair advantage
over women who are competing in a women only sport.


and I'm not happy seeing women getting smacked in the face by a man.

Ever here of a condition called androgen insensitivity syndrome. These individuals are born XY, but are insensitive the effects of testosterone. They do not develop male secondary sexual characteristics, and do not go through male puberty. They are typically raised female and have female genitalia. By all looks they are female. Fighting against a man because they are male to you since they have a Y chromosome would be unfair because they are not male. How does that fit in your uni. It is a rare genetic abnormality. Biology is far more complex than you want to admit. You know nothing about her medical history, and even if she has a Y chromosome, she is female.
You rail against America and Americans being backwards. How does it feel to be in the other side

all of this! 

[pulmonarymd]

Aug 5, 2024 17:18:11 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

and again, I don't care.

I care about the rights of women competing in women only sport ........ and not being disadvantaged.


You cant make policy based on one person whatever the issue is .......... its got to be for the majority.

and half the population are female.




There's a reason we don't put Mike Tyson in with boxers of a different weight/sex .......... ie its dangerous.

Other boxers compete in their category.

She will never become Mike Tyson. She does not respond to testosterone. She has no physical advantage!

[pulmonarymd]

Aug 5, 2024 17:25:31 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Aug 5, 2024 17:18:11 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

and again, I don't care.

I care about the rights of women competing in women only sport ........ and not being disadvantaged.


You cant make policy based on one person whatever the issue is .......... its got to be for the majority.

and half the population are female.




There's a reason we don't put Mike Tyson in with boxers of a different weight/sex .......... ie its dangerous.

Other boxers compete in their category.

She will never become Mike Tyson. She does not respond to testosterone. She has no physical advantage!

ETA. Nice to know you do not care about an individual, who through no fault of their own, cannot compete against men because they would be seriously disadvantaged.

Your compassion is duly noted

[Spellbound454]

Aug 5, 2024 17:16:30 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Aug 5, 2024 17:04:37 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

and louder still for those with their heads in the sand

SHE'S NOT A WOMAN>

MAYBE YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO SOMEONE WHO KNOWS MORE ABOUT MEDICINE THAN YOU DO.

If she has the condition I outlined, her testosterone level could be 10,000 and it wouldn’t matter. She is incapable of responding to testosterone since she lacks a receptor that makes it happen. She is no more a man than you are

Yes I have heard of it
and what makes you think this person has it? ................ because that information has not been released.

Some women have heightened levels of testosterone for medical conditions such as polycystic ovaries etc...... but it still doesn't go to male levels
and from what I have read this person has male levels.

You rail against America and Americans being backwards. How does it feel to be in the other side

Firstly I don't rail against Americans for anything.

and secondly Im not on the other side this is the consensus. .... Its not some right wing conspiracy BS...... Its not political at all.

[Spellbound454]

 

She will never become Mike Tyson. She does not respond to testosterone. She has no physical advantage!

You don't know if she has androgen insensitivity.
It could be dozens of different conditions

None of which matter

Women have to be able to compete on a level playing field with like individuals.......... or they are at a disadvantage.

[pulmonarymd]

Aug 5, 2024 17:27:45 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Aug 5, 2024 17:16:30 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

MAYBE YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO SOMEONE WHO KNOWS MORE ABOUT MEDICINE THAN YOU DO.

If she has the condition I outlined, her testosterone level could be 10,000 and it wouldn’t matter. She is incapable of responding to testosterone since she lacks a receptor that makes it happen. She is no more a man than you are

Yes I have heard of it
and what makes you think this person has it? ................ because that information has not been released.

Some women have heightened levels of testosterone for medical conditions such as polycystic ovaries etc...... but it still doesn't go to male levels
and from what I have read this person has male levels.

You rail against America and Americans being backwards. How does it feel to be in the other side

Firstly I don't rail against Americans for anything.

and secondly Im not on the other side this is the consensus. .... Its not some right wing conspiracy BS...... Its not political at all.

How do you know she doesn’t. Without her records neither of us know. But you, without knowing any facts have gone off on how unfair this is to women. So who is the one wrong here?

[pulmonarymd]

Aug 5, 2024 17:31:49 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 

She will never become Mike Tyson. She does not respond to testosterone. She has no physical advantage!

You don't know if she has androgen insensitivity.
It could be dozens of different conditions

None of which matter

Women have to be able to compete on a level playing field with like individuals.......... or they are at a disadvantage.

Again, if she has the condition, the only thing male about her is her chromosomes. She would be a women in every other aspect. It would be a level playing field. You are the one who is overreacting and want to exclude her without the facts

[Spellbound454]

 ETA. Nice to know you do not care about an individual, who through no fault of their own, cannot compete against men because they would be seriously disadvantaged.



Your compassion is duly noted

and compassion for the Women who have been pushed out of their dreams of a medal by someone who isn't a woman?

or the Italian woman who got smacked so hard in the face that she had to retire?


Women and women's sports must be protected.

[pulmonarymd]

Aug 5, 2024 17:38:10 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 ETA. Nice to know you do not care about an individual, who through no fault of their own, cannot compete against men because they would be seriously disadvantaged.



Your compassion is duly noted

and compassion for the Women who have been pushed out of their dreams of a medal by someone who isn't a woman?

or the Italian woman who got smacked so hard in the face that she had to retire?


Women and women's sports must be protected.

I will say it again since you are being tone deaf. Without knowing her medical history, you are talking out of your ass. I just gave you a legitimate reason for why she could have been allowed to compete and you continue to spew nonsense. Without more in the way of facts, you are discounting this women’s story because you are so worried about “fairness”. Something that you accuse Woke people of doing. Careful, you sound like one of them

[Opti]

Aug 5, 2024 16:30:42 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

"At a press conference on Monday (5 August), the IBA, which no longer oversees Olympic boxing amid concerns about its integrity and links to Russia, finally clarified that Khelif and Lin’s test results revealed chromosomes that made them ineligible to compete in the women’s category."

Press conference today,........ high levels of testosterone and chromosome which make them ineligible.

All the IOC have done is looked at the passport.

So you really have no clue how Olympic athletes are vetted.



Try again

[Opti]

Aug 5, 2024 17:18:11 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

and again, I don't care.

I care about the rights of women competing in women only sport ........ and not being disadvantaged.


You cant make policy based on one person whatever the issue is .......... its got to be for the majority.

and half the population are female.




There's a reason we don't put Mike Tyson in with boxers of a different weight/sex .......... ie its dangerous.

Other boxers compete in their category.

She's a woman love. If you live in a binary world of male or female, she is female.
Try again

[Spellbound454]

You can't make policy for one person.

Not in any form of governance.

It has to be for the majority ........ and women matter because they are half the population.


As for a persons story, there are lots of people with all sorts of tragic stories ...... especially in the refugee team.

But when they compete, they compete as equals.


That's fair.

[Opti]

Aug 5, 2024 17:04:37 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

and louder still for those with their heads in the sand

SHE'S NOT A WOMAN>

Lastly because this is fun -

SHE IS BIOLOGICALLY A WOMAN
She is not trans

They lied in the press to trap people like you
She has higher amounts of male hormones than most biological woman, however situation normal. 

The wrote they found XY chromosomes to activate your anger and make sure you did not even think
This is how the RW (and foreign actors) plant fake news to whip up RW leaning folk

[Spellbound454]

Aug 5, 2024 17:44:29 GMT -5 Opti said:

Aug 5, 2024 16:30:42 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

"At a press conference on Monday (5 August), the IBA, which no longer oversees Olympic boxing amid concerns about its integrity and links to Russia, finally clarified that Khelif and Lin’s test results revealed chromosomes that made them ineligible to compete in the women’s category."

Press conference today,........ high levels of testosterone and chromosome which make them ineligible.

All the IOC have done is looked at the passport.

So you really have no clue how Olympic athletes are vetted.



Try again

Yes that is what they have done, they said it today at the press conference.

[Opti]

Aug 5, 2024 17:57:07 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

You can't make policy for one person.

Not in any form of governance.

It has to be for the majority ........ and women matter because they are half the population.


As for a persons story, there are lots of people with all sorts of tragic stories ...... especially in the refugee team.

But when they compete, they compete as equals.


That's fair.

Maybe this will help. The below is an image of you, metaphorically (You and others took the bait of "XY chromosome")

[Opti]

Aug 5, 2024 17:58:54 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Aug 5, 2024 17:44:29 GMT -5 Opti said:

So you really have no clue how Olympic athletes are vetted.



Try again

Yes that is what they have done, they said it today at the press conference.

Who said, link please?

[Spellbound454]

SHE IS BIOLOGICALLY A WOMAN

She is not trans



They lied in the press to trap people like you

She has higher amounts of male hormones than most biological woman, however situation normal.



The wrote they found XY chromosomes to activate your anger and make sure you did not even think

This is how the RW (and foreign actors) plant fake news to whip up RW leaning folk

Opt this is not some sort of conspiracy

Its on the main stream media all over Europe especially in France.

Nobody has ever mentioned. "trans"

[Opti]

Aug 5, 2024 17:58:54 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Aug 5, 2024 17:44:29 GMT -5 Opti said:

So you really have no clue how Olympic athletes are vetted.



Try again

Yes that is what they have done, they said it today at the press conference.

I'll try again for you. Watch what a real IOC official said in the CNN video at the link,
you can skip the backstory and watch from 1:30 on.


www.cnn.com/2024/08/01/sport/video/imane-khelif-paris-olympics-boxing-controversy-digvid#:~:text=Imane%20Khelif%20of%20Algeria%20won%20her%20opening%20Olympic,the%20Paris%20Olympics%20has%20become%20a%20divisive%20issue.

[Opti]

Aug 5, 2024 18:03:04 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

SHE IS BIOLOGICALLY A WOMAN

She is not trans



They lied in the press to trap people like you

She has higher amounts of male hormones than most biological woman, however situation normal.



The wrote they found XY chromosomes to activate your anger and make sure you did not even think

This is how the RW (and foreign actors) plant fake news to whip up RW leaning folk

Opt this is not some sort of conspiracy

Its on the main stream media all over Europe especially in France.

Nobody has ever mentioned. "trans"

It is RW misinformation and of course its everywhere because
1) France held an inclusive Olympics
2) The US is in the midst of the 2024 election drama

[pulmonarymd]

Aug 5, 2024 17:57:07 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

You can't make policy for one person.

Not in any form of governance.

It has to be for the majority ........ and women matter because they are half the population.


As for a persons story, there are lots of people with all sorts of tragic stories ...... especially in the refugee team.

But when they compete, they compete as equals.


That's fair.

So you are the arbiter off who is a woman? You are treading very close to the line that Trump crossed at the press conference where he questioned whether Kamala was black enough.

Let’s see you define what a woman is.

[Spellbound454]

 Let’s see you define what a woman is.

Good grief ............. its a wonder the human race has survived all this time.

[moon/Laura]

Aug 5, 2024 17:04:37 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

and louder still for those with their heads in the sand

SHE'S NOT A WOMAN>

Are you so ignorant that you don't know PCOS *also* causes women to have higher testosterone levels? Not saying she has that, but it's another possibility and that doesn't make them (women who have PCOS) men!

Your entire attitude on this is nuts, especially considering you're not a medical professional. You really know jack shit, much like most of us other than pulmonarymd. You've formed your opinions based on dubious medical sources equivalent to FAUX news over here.

[pulmonarymd]

Aug 5, 2024 18:19:49 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 Let’s see you define what a woman is.

Good grief ............. its a wonder the human race has survived all this time.

Is a person with pcos who has a testosterone level 1 point above “normal” a woman? Is she allowed to compete?

You are so worried about undefined women being deprived of their rights. What would you say to this person.

I understand how messy biology is. The wonders of the human condition are myriad, and at times defy definition. Life is not nearly as black and white as you and our right wing nut jobs like to think it is

ETA: how about if she has been pregnant previously? Does she meet your definition of who a women is even if here testosterone level is outside the “normal” range

[Spellbound454]

Aug 5, 2024 17:27:45 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Aug 5, 2024 17:16:30 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

MAYBE YOU SHOULD LISTEN TO SOMEONE WHO KNOWS MORE ABOUT MEDICINE THAN YOU DO.

If she has the condition I outlined, her testosterone level could be 10,000 and it wouldn’t matter. She is incapable of responding to testosterone since she lacks a receptor that makes it happen. She is no more a man than you are

Yes I have heard of it
and what makes you think this person has it? ................ because that information has not been released.

Some women have heightened levels of testosterone for medical conditions such as polycystic ovaries etc...... but it still doesn't go to male levels
and from what I have read this person has male levels.

You rail against America and Americans being backwards. How does it feel to be in the other side

Firstly I don't rail against Americans for anything.

and secondly Im not on the other side this is the consensus. .... Its not some right wing conspiracy BS...... Its not political at all.

No, I'm not ignorant at all.

and I have already mentioned your point.

[Opti]

Moon, she doesn't need to be a medical professional to learn how to read the news.
She doesn't need to be a medical professional to realize the source of the 
"XY chromosome" soundbite 

is known for lying
is not the body in charge of the Olympics, 2022 or 2024

Its not her medical credentials or lack thereof at issue.
The problem is she (and others) chooses to believe verifiable lies because of where she reads them
and how often she sees them

That's the issue