Open Question: how will people think of Trump in 100 years?

[djAdvocate]

will it be like Johnson and Buchanan (not at all, unless we are comparing them to the worst presidents of all time, and as a cautionary tale) or will it be like RE Lee (folk hero, etc)?  both?

your opinions are welcome.  as is usual when i ask open questions, i will wait for others to chime in before i respond.

[happyhoix]

Too early to say, I think.

He could still win a second term and accidentally start WWIII.

If he fails to win a second term, I think he’ll be seen as a right wing Huey Long, except that Long actually had a platform and accomplished some helpful things for the poor.

[laterbloomer]

I'm hoping it will be like Edgar Hoover, a dark time that it's hard to believe happened.

[djAdvocate]

anyone else?

i don't think it is that hard. if you want me to explain WHY, i can.

[haapai]

One thing is certain, in a hundred years, very few people will be remembering the Trump presidency or presidencies.  A few very old people might still be alive but if they are honest, they'll admit how young they were at the time and how their opinions were shaped by older people around them.  The vast majority of persons alive a hundred years from now will think what they have been taught to think of Trump. 

It has taken a very long time for Germany to come to terms with Hitler's popularity and methods.  Adults who lived through that time were very quiet about it for decades.  I think that there will be a turning point at about fifty years when the older generation is gone. 

[busymom]

I frankly like Later's comparison to Hoover.  I remember my parents telling me what a train wreck Hoover was.  


The list is so long for Trump, so where do I begin?  Misogynist, racist, self-absorbed, con man, divisive, cheater (on his three wives).  And those are his good qualities.  And yet, somehow, he's got the ability to whip up an angry fan base to do his bidding.  

[haapai]

Perhaps the difference between Hoover and Trump is that Clyde spent his one day as FBI director emptying the office.  I'm not sure that anyone would do that for Trump.  Also, Trump is a far more public figure with ample evidence of his more disgusting qualities widely dispersed. 

[Opti]

Jun 4, 2024 9:45:05 GMT -5 haapai said:

One thing is certain, in a hundred years, very few people will be remembering the Trump presidency or presidencies.  A few very old people might still be alive but if they are honest, they'll admit how young they were at the time and how their opinions were shaped by older people around them.  The vast majority of persons alive a hundred years from now will think what they have been taught to think of Trump. 

It has taken a very long time for Germany to come to terms with Hitler's popularity and methods.  Adults who lived through that time were very quiet about it for decades.  I think that there will be a turning point at about fifty years when the older generation is gone. 

Agreed. I was just thinking how it hasn't even been a hundred years for Hitler. The time span is too long for me to guess as I am not even sure what the next 10 years will bring. 

[thyme4change]

Obviously, it will be mixed. People say the holocaust didn’t happen and Hitler was a great man of the people - so, I am sure one of his supporters will write some convincing fan fiction about how amazing he is, and that will live on. But, many will also document his failures, of which there are many, and that will also have legs. But, for the most part, our terrible education system will mention his name and nearly everyone won’t even know the name of any president outside Washington and maybe the current president(who will be Kim Kardashian’s grandchild, or something equally as weird).

[Tennesseer]

Today's presidential historians are already listing trump as one of the worst, if not the very worst, presidents in U.S. history.  That belief will not have changed in 100 years in the future.

[azucena]

FWIW, DD15 sums up Trump's legacy as "hatred".

[dondubble]

As a cancerous blot on the body politic.

[NastyWoman]

Jun 4, 2024 10:14:58 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Today's presidential historians are already listing trump as one of the worst, if not the very worst, presidents in U.S. history.  That belief will not have changed in 100 years in the future.

We can only hope! But, unless the GOP turns things around in a major way, chances are the next GOP POTUS(es) will be worse than Fopa. Think about it: who would ever have thought that just  40 or so years later Reagan would be far to pinko commie to ever be the GOP candidate? Yet here we are.

[laterbloomer]

What I'm hoping doesn't happen is that he is seen as the leader of the revolution that killed democracy....

[djAdvocate]

Jun 4, 2024 9:48:54 GMT -5 busymom said:

I frankly like Later's comparison to Hoover.  I remember my parents telling me what a train wreck Hoover was.  


The list is so long for Trump, so where do I begin?  Misogynist, racist, self-absorbed, con man, divisive, cheater (on his three wives).  And those are his good qualities.  And yet, somehow, he's got the ability to whip up an angry fan base to do his bidding.  

how do you think of Hoover, busymom?
how does society as a whole think of him?

[djAdvocate]

Jun 4, 2024 10:06:35 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Obviously, it will be mixed. People say the holocaust didn’t happen and Hitler was a great man of the people - so, I am sure one of his supporters will write some convincing fan fiction about how amazing he is, and that will live on. But, many will also document his failures, of which there are many, and that will also have legs. But, for the most part, our terrible education system will mention his name and nearly everyone won’t even know the name of any president outside Washington and maybe the current president(who will be Kim Kardashian’s grandchild, or something equally as weird).

not a lot of people say that.  most people is who i am interested in on this thread.

in case that wasn't clear.

[busymom]

Jun 4, 2024 15:21:37 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 4, 2024 9:48:54 GMT -5 busymom said:

I frankly like Later's comparison to Hoover.  I remember my parents telling me what a train wreck Hoover was.  


The list is so long for Trump, so where do I begin?  Misogynist, racist, self-absorbed, con man, divisive, cheater (on his three wives).  And those are his good qualities.  And yet, somehow, he's got the ability to whip up an angry fan base to do his bidding.  

how do you think of Hoover, busymom?
how does society as a whole think of him?

     Remember when Trump said Covid was just going to go away?  Hoover appeared to have the same attitude about the Great Depression.  He didn't think government intervention would be required.  Like a "good" Republican, he figured the churches, etc., would take care of the folks who were hurting.  (He greatly underestimated how many people were in serious trouble.)  I won't bore you with the family stories of what happened to my own aunts, uncles & grandparents during the Depression, but honorable mention goes to my uncle who walked 20 miles to work, and then walked back home & did the same every day.  Not many folks could afford to keep a car when things got ugly.  Franklin D Roosevelt was greatly loved by the middle class, and he started up a lot of programs that the other side called "socialism", but it did improve the lives of a lot of Americans.  Which is probably why FDR was elected to 4 terms as president.  

[resolution]

I'm kind of hoping that we will put all of this behind us and in the future no one will really think much of anything about Trump. Growing up, I learned in school that Lincoln was shot and that Kennedy was shot; but I don't recall ever hearing anything about Johnson or Buchanan other than as names on a list.

It's pretty clear that historians will rate Trump dead last, but I am hoping over time he will be insignificant enough that most people won't be actively thinking about him.

[tallguy]

Jun 4, 2024 17:17:10 GMT -5 busymom said:

Jun 4, 2024 15:21:37 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

how do you think of Hoover, busymom?
how does society as a whole think of him?

     Remember when Trump said Covid was just going to go away?  Hoover appeared to have the same attitude about the Great Depression.  He didn't think government intervention would be required.  Like a "good" Republican, he figured the churches, etc., would take care of the folks who were hurting.  (He greatly underestimated how many people were in serious trouble.)  I won't bore you with the family stories of what happened to my own aunts, uncles & grandparents during the Depression, but honorable mention goes to my uncle who walked 20 miles to work, and then walked back home & did the same every day.  Not many folks could afford to keep a car when things got ugly.  Franklin D Roosevelt was greatly loved by the middle class, and he started up a lot of programs that the other side called "socialism", but it did improve the lives of a lot of Americans.  Which is probably why FDR was elected to 4 terms as president.  

I think the original reference here was to J. Edgar Hoover, not Herbert Hoover.

[tallguy]

It's only been about 70 years, but does anybody today think positively of Joe McCarthy?  Trump may be similar in a couple ways, but many times worse overall.  History will not show him well.

[busymom]

Jun 4, 2024 20:49:07 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Jun 4, 2024 17:17:10 GMT -5 busymom said:

     Remember when Trump said Covid was just going to go away?  Hoover appeared to have the same attitude about the Great Depression.  He didn't think government intervention would be required.  Like a "good" Republican, he figured the churches, etc., would take care of the folks who were hurting.  (He greatly underestimated how many people were in serious trouble.)  I won't bore you with the family stories of what happened to my own aunts, uncles & grandparents during the Depression, but honorable mention goes to my uncle who walked 20 miles to work, and then walked back home & did the same every day.  Not many folks could afford to keep a car when things got ugly.  Franklin D Roosevelt was greatly loved by the middle class, and he started up a lot of programs that the other side called "socialism", but it did improve the lives of a lot of Americans.  Which is probably why FDR was elected to 4 terms as president.  

I think the original reference here was to J. Edgar Hoover, not Herbert Hoover.

    Ah, I see.  I've got presidents who were seen as failures on the brain.  

[Tennesseer]

Jun 4, 2024 20:56:57 GMT -5 tallguy said:

It's only been about 70 years, but does anybody today think positively of Joe McCarthy?  Trump may be similar in a couple ways, but many times worse overall.  History will not show him well.

One thing Joe McCarthy and donald trump had in common was Roy Cohn. Cohn was counsel for both McCarthy and trump.

Roy Cohn

[tallguy]

Jun 4, 2024 21:18:33 GMT -5 busymom said:

Jun 4, 2024 20:49:07 GMT -5 tallguy said:

I think the original reference here was to J. Edgar Hoover, not Herbert Hoover.

    Ah, I see.  I've got presidents who were seen as failures on the brain.  

Natural connection with Trump.  

[Tennesseer]

Jun 4, 2024 21:45:42 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jun 4, 2024 20:56:57 GMT -5 tallguy said:

It's only been about 70 years, but does anybody today think positively of Joe McCarthy?  Trump may be similar in a couple ways, but many times worse overall.  History will not show him well.

One thing Joe McCarthy and donald trump had in common was Roy Cohn. Cohn was counsel for both McCarthy and trump.

Roy Cohn

Interesting bit of trivia. Cohn had his hand deep in the prosecution and execution of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg. The Rosenberg s' two sons were adopted by Abel Meeropol and his wife. Mr. and Mrs. Meerpool and the two Rosenberg sons lived in the city where I grew up. I did not know them though.

Abel Meerpool also wrote the poem 'Strange Fruit' and the poem's words were turned into the song 'Strange Fruit' made famous by Billie Holiday.

[billisonboard]

Jun 4, 2024 19:27:52 GMT -5 resolution said:

I'm kind of hoping that we will put all of this behind us and in the future no one will really think much of anything about Trump. Growing up, I learned in school that Lincoln was shot and that Kennedy was shot; but I don't recall ever hearing anything about Johnson or Buchanan other than as names on a list.

It's pretty clear that historians will rate Trump dead last, but I am hoping over time he will be insignificant enough that most people won't be actively thinking about him.

As things currently sit, there is no "hook" for history teachers to use in lesson plans regarding the time frame from Obama's first election through today. No maps of the battles of the Afghanistan War. Covid? A bunch of people died over a few years, and things shut down. Kinda like that flu thing that apparently happened 100 years past. The Capitol invasion? People roamed around, one person got shot, they went home and Congress went about its business. Former President convicted of falsifying business records to pay off porn star? No teacher is going to touch that one. So unless something big happens in the future, Trump will just be a name on a list in 100 years.

[tallguy]

Jun 4, 2024 23:07:47 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 4, 2024 19:27:52 GMT -5 resolution said:

I'm kind of hoping that we will put all of this behind us and in the future no one will really think much of anything about Trump. Growing up, I learned in school that Lincoln was shot and that Kennedy was shot; but I don't recall ever hearing anything about Johnson or Buchanan other than as names on a list.

It's pretty clear that historians will rate Trump dead last, but I am hoping over time he will be insignificant enough that most people won't be actively thinking about him.

As things currently sit, there is no "hook" for history teachers to use in lesson plans regarding the time frame from Obama's first election through today. No maps of the battles of the Afghanistan War. Covid? A bunch of people died over a few years, and things shut down. Kinda like that flu thing that apparently happened 100 years past. The Capitol invasion? People roamed around, one person got shot, they went home and Congress went about its business. Former President convicted of falsifying business records to pay off porn star? No teacher is going to touch that one. So unless something big happens in the future, Trump will just be a name on a list in 100 years.

I don't know.  Andrew Johnson was impeached over less than Trump was guilty of and we still remember him after 150 years.  I guess that means since Trump was impeached twice that generations to come will remember him for at least 300.   

[billisonboard]

Jun 4, 2024 23:44:51 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Jun 4, 2024 23:07:47 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

As things currently sit, there is no "hook" for history teachers to use in lesson plans regarding the time frame from Obama's first election through today. No maps of the battles of the Afghanistan War. Covid? A bunch of people died over a few years, and things shut down. Kinda like that flu thing that apparently happened 100 years past. The Capitol invasion? People roamed around, one person got shot, they went home and Congress went about its business. Former President convicted of falsifying business records to pay off porn star? No teacher is going to touch that one. So unless something big happens in the future, Trump will just be a name on a list in 100 years.

I don't know.  Andrew Johnson was impeached over less than Trump was guilty of and we still remember him after 150 years.  I guess that means since Trump was impeached twice that generations to come will remember him for at least 300.   

To the degree he is remembered, it is in the flow of the Civil War.

It is significant that resolution mentioned Lincoln (Civil War) and Kennedy (most likely living memory of teacher) but not Garfield nor McKinley as presidents shot. Bigger picture matters.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 4, 2024 17:17:10 GMT -5 busymom said:

Jun 4, 2024 15:21:37 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

how do you think of Hoover, busymom?
how does society as a whole think of him?

     Remember when Trump said Covid was just going to go away?  Hoover appeared to have the same attitude about the Great Depression.  He didn't think government intervention would be required.  Like a "good" Republican, he figured the churches, etc., would take care of the folks who were hurting.  (He greatly underestimated how many people were in serious trouble.)  I won't bore you with the family stories of what happened to my own aunts, uncles & grandparents during the Depression, but honorable mention goes to my uncle who walked 20 miles to work, and then walked back home & did the same every day.  Not many folks could afford to keep a car when things got ugly.  Franklin D Roosevelt was greatly loved by the middle class, and he started up a lot of programs that the other side called "socialism", but it did improve the lives of a lot of Americans.  Which is probably why FDR was elected to 4 terms as president.  

you didn't explicitly answer, but i get where you were going.

anyone else?

[djAdvocate]

Jun 4, 2024 23:44:51 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Jun 4, 2024 23:07:47 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

As things currently sit, there is no "hook" for history teachers to use in lesson plans regarding the time frame from Obama's first election through today. No maps of the battles of the Afghanistan War. Covid? A bunch of people died over a few years, and things shut down. Kinda like that flu thing that apparently happened 100 years past. The Capitol invasion? People roamed around, one person got shot, they went home and Congress went about its business. Former President convicted of falsifying business records to pay off porn star? No teacher is going to touch that one. So unless something big happens in the future, Trump will just be a name on a list in 100 years.

I don't know.  Andrew Johnson was impeached over less than Trump was guilty of and we still remember him after 150 years.  I guess that means since Trump was impeached twice that generations to come will remember him for at least 300.   

do we?  name me one piece of major legislation he enacted.  who was his vice president?  what was public opinion of his administration?  notable events?

when i think of Johnson, i think of a failure that we compare Trump to.  that is it.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 4, 2024 21:58:31 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jun 4, 2024 21:45:42 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

One thing Joe McCarthy and donald trump had in common was Roy Cohn. Cohn was counsel for both McCarthy and trump.

Roy Cohn

Interesting bit of trivia. Cohn had his hand deep in the prosecution and execution of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg. The Rosenberg s' two sons were adopted by Abel Meeropol and his wife. Mr. and Mrs. Meerpool and the two Rosenberg sons lived in the city where I grew up. I did not know them though.

Abel Meerpool also wrote the poem 'Strange Fruit' and the poem's words were turned into the song 'Strange Fruit' made famous by Billie Holiday.

that was her "signature song".  incredibly moving and really disturbing.