Open Question: how will people think of Trump in 100 years?

[djAdvocate]

i just got through listening to a Cohen interview. it should freak every US citizen out. i would like to calm down about it, but i lack the tools.

i had to click off of it i was so distressed. (the interview) was about when he spent time in prison, and they wanted him to sign an non-disclosure on release. he refused and got an extra 15 days. i think it was on Lawrence O'Donnel. and because of that refusal, we have this conviction (34 counts).

so, yeah. this is a dangerous moment. Cohen predicted that this will become the norm if he is re-elected. the people that are now trying to suck up to Trump think that it will make them rich and powerful. it won't. it will make them victims. that is how he works. you get close to him, and he will end your life, and not in a good way. the truth could not be plainer to any observer.

he wants it all, which means you get nothing. that is the "art of the deal".

[NastyWoman]

Jun 8, 2024 15:19:05 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i just got through listening to a Cohen interview. it should freak every US citizen out. i would like to calm down about it, but i lack the tools.

i had to click off of it i was so distressed. (the interview) was about when he spent time in prison, and they wanted him to sign an non-disclosure on release. he refused and got an extra 15 days. i think it was on Lawrence O'Donnel. and because of that refusal, we have this conviction (34 counts).

so, yeah. this is a dangerous moment. Cohen predicted that this will become the norm if he is re-elected. the people that are now trying to suck up to Trump think that it will make them rich and powerful. it won't. it will make them victims. that is how he works. you get close to him, and he will end your life, and not in a good way. the truth could not be plainer to any observer.

he wants it all, which means you get nothing. that is the "art of the deal".

I remember how depressed I was after Fopa was elected despite all the filth that had been brought up about him by that time and that was just what showed up at the surface it turns out.  I let some of that go or rather let it go dormant it turns out. The fact that his toxicity does not reduced the adoration of him by such a large number of people has brought it all back. And I am now much more negative about the Magidiots than I ever was before: I always considered them a danger to American democracy. Now I believe they may very well pose a significant danger to the world at large. Even if Fopa is trounced in this upcoming election, and that is not a given, that will not eliminate the danger. Changes on a much larger scale are needed to put this danger back into Pandora's box.

[billisonboard]

... they wanted him to sign an non-disclosure on release. he refused and got an extra 15 days.NDA? Hmmm? Ah, okay. This makes sense:

Cohen, who reported to prison in May 2019, was released to home confinement after about a year as authorities released low-security-risk inmates during a coronavirus outbreak in federal prisons.

He was returned to prison weeks later before a judge ordered him returned to home confinement, saying that returning him to prison was clearly meant to punish him for his plan to publish his book, titled, “Disloyal: The True Story of Michael Cohen, Former Personal Attorney to President Donald J. Trump.”

“How can I take any other inference than that it’s retaliatory?” Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein said. Prosecutors had insisted that Probation Department officers did not know about the book when they wrote a provision of home confinement that severely restricted Cohen’s public communications.
link U

[swamp]

Jun 7, 2024 16:59:13 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Jun 5, 2024 9:02:13 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

I think in people's minds Trump will stay on the pedestal he now occupies with the MAGAts, and gain even more support.  I would like to think historians would continue to rank him low, but I have my doubts. 

Mike Huckabee is doing his very best to capture the hearts and minds of the kids in this country by flooding them with propaganda.  

thekidsguide.com/trumpelectionbundle/?promotioncode=T44RB24H&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwmYCzBhA6EiwAxFwfgGgzOMW8Mf2cXEu3s4EhCZMaWJeQQH6KXOlin70HQzaQWtFXhNisRhoC7rkQAvD_BwE

Trump will age out, but I think Don Jr. is primed to step in and run for office at some point. It's scary to think of a Trump political dynasty along the lines of the Kennedys and Bushes. 

I don’t think Don jr has the same type of confidential swagger the minions like from his dad. He and his wife always come across as slightly crazed. Plus I think he lacks the need to attention and admiration that drives his dad.

There’s about a thousand other wanna be MAGA kings out there, though. Some will grab the mantle.

 Also think don jr is going to have some kind of cardiac event from all the coke he snorts.  Seriously, he is the poster for what someone under the influence of coke looks like.  

flushed face, dialated pupils, fast pressured speech, paranoia. 

[Tennesseer]

“I’ve never seen such a clause in 21 years of being a judge and sentencing people and looking at terms of supervised release,” the judge said. “Why would the Bureau of Prisons ask for something like this ... unless there was a retaliatory purpose?”

In ruling, Hellerstein said he made the “finding that the purpose of transferring Mr. Cohen from furlough and home confinement to jail is retaliatory.” He added: “And it’s retaliatory for his desire to exercise his First Amendment rights to publish the book.”

Judge orders Michael Cohen to be released from prison

[ripvanwinkle]

What is fopa. My search comes up with this. Firearm Protection Act. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act. How does this apply to this thread?

[billisonboard]

Jun 8, 2024 20:39:05 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

What is fopa. My search comes up with this. Firearm Protection Act. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act. How does this apply to this thread?

From context, I have been assuming it is a derogatory term for Trump that just uses the letters because typing it out would violate our Code of Conduct. You know, skating around the rules.

[ripvanwinkle]

Jun 8, 2024 20:49:50 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 8, 2024 20:39:05 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

What is fopa. My search comes up with this. Firearm Protection Act. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act. How does this apply to this thread?

From context, I have been assuming it is a derogatory term for Trump that just uses the letters because typing it out would violate our Code of Conduct. You know, skating around the rules.

Ah, that makes sense.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 8, 2024 20:32:29 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

“I’ve never seen such a clause in 21 years of being a judge and sentencing people and looking at terms of supervised release,” the judge said. “Why would the Bureau of Prisons ask for something like this ... unless there was a retaliatory purpose?”

In ruling, Hellerstein said he made the “finding that the purpose of transferring Mr. Cohen from furlough and home confinement to jail is retaliatory.” He added: “And it’s retaliatory for his desire to exercise his First Amendment rights to publish the book.”

Judge orders Michael Cohen to be released from prison

yeah, that is it, Tenn.  thanks.  like i say, i clicked off it, and could then not find it in my browser history.  i found that whole thing very distressing.  i would encourage anyone interested in the subject of "how Trump works" when he has the power to do so to look at that link, even though i found it terrifying.

[djAdvocate]

i found this in the article Tenn posted:

In a written declaration, Cohen said his book “will provide graphic and unflattering details about the President’s behavior behind closed doors,” including a description of anti-Semitic and “virulently racist remarks” against Black leaders including President Barack Obama and Nelson Mandela, South Africa’s first Black president.

have you heard him compare himself to Nelson Mandela recently? i have. i am going to go find that quote and post it here. hopefully it won't violate TAC. but i think that if he does it again, it should be thrown right back in his fleshy orange face.

[djAdvocate]

"As a rule, Trump expressed low opinions of all black folks, from music to culture and politics," Cohen writes in his book.
He claimed Donald Trump said the late South African president and anti-apartheid activist Nelson Mandela was "no leader".
BBC/72 Films/Media24/Gallo Images/Getty Images Nelson MandelaBBC/72 Films/Media24/Gallo Images/Getty Images
Nelson Mandela became South Africa's first black president after spending 27 years in prison during apartheid
"Tell me one country run by a black person that isn't a shithole. They are all complete [expletive] toilets," Mr Trump once said, according to Cohen.

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54060687

if you take his statement about South Africa and Mandela as fact (i don't), then one would have to agree with the comparison. Trump is also "no leader", and is causing America to become a shithole country. i pray that someone shoves this back in his face.

i remember laughing when he compared himself to Mandela, thinking that Mandela is the last person on Earth that Trump has any resemblance to.

[djAdvocate]

i just watched the COVID hearings from a few days ago all the way through. Ronnie Jackson is a f(*king loon. he should be kept as far away from any office, medical or political, as possible.

i thought grandpa Fauci defended himself very well. he has had to address these stupid points about the origin of COVID so many times that he knows every fact. the problem for him is that he has said SO MUCH on the subject that it is easy to quote him out of context and make him look bad.

i think the man was a hero. could he and the CDC have done better? of course! but not under the Trump administration. he would have been fabulous under Clinton. i think it is all but certain that combination would have saved hundreds of thousands of Americans.

[djAdvocate]

i keep thinking about the Mandela comparison.
can you imagine what Trump would do after 27 years in prison?
Mandela established a truth and reconciliation commission. he FORGAVE all of his oppressors.

but i get it. that is not leadership to Trump. leadership would be putting all of his jailers behind bars. and in Mandela's case, there would have been some justification for that, since his imprisonment was utterly unjust. but that is really not the point.

Mandela is considered a GREAT leader for that act.
Trump thinks he is "not a leader".

what does that say about Trump?

i admire Mandela above any leader i have ever seen in my lifetime. i have never seen such courage, strength, wisdom and compassion in my life, and i doubt i ever will.

the only thing that distinguishes Trump is his fake sense of victim-hood and entitlement. there are few that compare to him in that way.

[haapai]

I for one, do not wish to be reminded of the high school paper that I wrote on the causes of the Civil War. 

I simply got it wrong.  Maybe 100 years from now, students given the writing prompt, "How the @#$% did Donald Trump get elected?" will do much better than I did. 

[happyhoix]

Jun 8, 2024 20:31:28 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jun 7, 2024 16:59:13 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I don’t think Don jr has the same type of confidential swagger the minions like from his dad. He and his wife always come across as slightly crazed. Plus I think he lacks the need to attention and admiration that drives his dad.

There’s about a thousand other wanna be MAGA kings out there, though. Some will grab the mantle.

 Also think don jr is going to have some kind of cardiac event from all the coke he snorts.  Seriously, he is the poster for what someone under the influence of coke looks like.  

flushed face, dialated pupils, fast pressured speech, paranoia. 

Have you seen his wife giving a speech? Whatever Don Jr is on, he’s sharing it with her.

[Opti]

Jun 9, 2024 10:40:58 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Jun 8, 2024 20:31:28 GMT -5 swamp said:

 Also think don jr is going to have some kind of cardiac event from all the coke he snorts.  Seriously, he is the poster for what someone under the influence of coke looks like.  

flushed face, dialated pupils, fast pressured speech, paranoia. 

Have you seen his wife giving a speech? Whatever Don Jr is on, he’s sharing it with her.

I thought it was her sharing with him, but the net result is the same - they both use to excess.

[Tennesseer]

Jun 9, 2024 14:02:22 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jun 9, 2024 10:40:58 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Have you seen his wife giving a speech? Whatever Don Jr is on, he’s sharing it with her.

I thought it was her sharing with him, but the net result is the same - they both use to excess.

[thyme4change]

Jun 6, 2024 14:38:02 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 6, 2024 8:30:46 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

The minds of people alive in 100 years.  They are starting with today's kids.  People often develop political beliefs from their family, early on.  Give it a few generations to perpetuate and we are at 100 years. Mike Huckabee is giving those families a jump start at indoctrination.  

School boards are becoming more conservative activist.  I see it becoming worse, not better.  

I used to think that in a national crisis, the tides could turn quickly (i.e, the Great Depression, World War II).  After COVID, I no longer believe it. 

As for Don Jr., I think he is charismatic to the MAGAts. He will step into his father's shoes. 

think about that, though.  i have no memory of any president in my first 15 years of life, and only from my dad at 15 years, not on my own.  my first tangible memory of a president was the first time i voted.

a 100 year old person is only going to have his own memories.  he would have to be 120 to effectively recall Trump, and i am not counting on that.  so, what will my kids think is the question.

in some ways it is a harder question.  in some ways it is not.

as to Don, Jr, he will also not be alive in 100 years.  but i will add something to that portion of the discussion, as well.  how often does a 2nd generation do as well as 1st gen in politics?  i would say never, but i am sure you will find an exception.  so i will simply say that the general rule is they do worse.

we don't actually like dynastic leadership in the US.  it is something that has worked in our favor in the past, and i happen to think it will work into the future.  on that basis, i am guessing that Don Jr will not do as well as pops.  he will be seen as inferior.

but hey, i have been wrong a bit about Trump in the past.  maybe i will be in the future.  which is why i started this thread.

thanks for your responses.

I remember Ford when I was in second grade. I remember Jimmy Carter being the worstest and Regan being the bestest.

Regan might be a good lesson. He won so easily, so he must have had pretty wide support - but now that we are decades on and more can see the results of his policies, he is much more controversial. Maybe Trump will seep in, but in a hundred years people will see him as the turning point towards a failed nation.

[busymom]

My parents saw Reagan for who he was, but he was so "popular".  Which kind of tells me a lot about those who voted for Reagan back then, and who vote for Trump now.  I'm thinking of Abe Lincoln's quote:  "You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time..."

[billisonboard]

Jun 17, 2024 9:23:04 GMT -5 busymom said:

My parents saw Reagan for who he was, but he was so "popular".  Which kind of tells me a lot about those who voted for Reagan back then, and who vote for Trump now.  I'm thinking of Abe Lincoln's quote:  "You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time..."

In 1980, I was campaigning for John Anderson at a mall near a military base. A group of young men walked by and informed me, "We are in the military, we are voting for Reagan. He promised us a pay raise."

[tallguy]

Speaking of failed presidents....

“There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.”

― George W. Bush

I could opine on Reagan again, but it seems I've done it so many times over the years.  Good to see though that his ranking among historians is trending downward lately.  He has always been highly overrated.

[tallguy]

Jun 17, 2024 9:51:12 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 17, 2024 9:23:04 GMT -5 busymom said:

My parents saw Reagan for who he was, but he was so "popular".  Which kind of tells me a lot about those who voted for Reagan back then, and who vote for Trump now.  I'm thinking of Abe Lincoln's quote:  "You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time..."

In 1980, I was campaigning for John Anderson at a mall near a military base. A group of young men walked by and informed me, "We are in the military, we are voting for Reagan. He promised us a pay raise."

[billisonboard]

Didn't think this was worth a new thread so will stretch to put it here:

'We fell in love' - Trump swoons over letters from North Korea's Kim

I think he is cheating on you

Putin says Russia and North Korea will help each other if attacked, taking ties to a ‘new level’


Perhaps he will be remembered like this: Was Napoleon the Most Jilted Lover of the 1700s?