Open Question: how will people think of Trump in 100 years?

[tallguy]

Jun 5, 2024 2:13:39 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 4, 2024 23:44:51 GMT -5 tallguy said:

I don't know.  Andrew Johnson was impeached over less than Trump was guilty of and we still remember him after 150 years.  I guess that means since Trump was impeached twice that generations to come will remember him for at least 300.   

do we?  name me one piece of major legislation he enacted.  who was his vice president?  what was public opinion of his administration?  notable events?

when i think of Johnson, i think of a failure that we compare Trump to.  that is it.

First, the comment was mostly a joke, as evidenced by the little winky guy.

Second, of course Johnson was a failure.  That is why he is among the group vying for the title of worst president in history.

Third, looking for major legislation or accomplishments is the wrong way to look at Johnson.  His "contributions" were mostly negative.  His version of Reconstruction was to bring the Confederate states back into the Union as quickly as possible without any real conditions, putting their old leaders back in charge, and negating or overturning the rights given to the newly-freed former slaves.  If Johnson had gotten his way, those freedmen would not have attained either citizenship or the right to vote.  If I recall correctly, he vetoed the post-war civil rights bill and would have been perfectly happy to see slavery re-established.  As far as public opinion of his administration, I'm sure the "states' rights" contingent LOVED him.    

[djAdvocate]

Jun 5, 2024 3:21:08 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Jun 5, 2024 2:13:39 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

do we?  name me one piece of major legislation he enacted.  who was his vice president?  what was public opinion of his administration?  notable events?

when i think of Johnson, i think of a failure that we compare Trump to.  that is it.

First, the comment was mostly a joke, as evidenced by the little winky guy.

Second, of course Johnson was a failure.  That is why he is among the group vying for the title of worst president in history.

Third, looking for major legislation or accomplishments is the wrong way to look at Johnson.  His "contributions" were mostly negative.  His version of Reconstruction was to bring the Confederate states back into the Union as quickly as possible without any real conditions, putting their old leaders back in charge, and negating or overturning the rights given to the newly-freed former slaves.  If Johnson had gotten his way, those freedmen would not have attained either citizenship or the right to vote.  If I recall correctly, he vetoed the post-war civil rights bill and would have been perfectly happy to see slavery re-established.  As far as public opinion of his administration, I'm sure the "states' rights" contingent LOVED him.    

very impressive reply, TG.

if you gave that list of accomplishments to a Trump supporter, and told them Trump was running on that platform, most would nod approvingly.

[tallguy]

Jun 5, 2024 3:29:28 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 5, 2024 3:21:08 GMT -5 tallguy said:

First, the comment was mostly a joke, as evidenced by the little winky guy.

Second, of course Johnson was a failure.  That is why he is among the group vying for the title of worst president in history.

Third, looking for major legislation or accomplishments is the wrong way to look at Johnson.  His "contributions" were mostly negative.  His version of Reconstruction was to bring the Confederate states back into the Union as quickly as possible without any real conditions, putting their old leaders back in charge, and negating or overturning the rights given to the newly-freed former slaves.  If Johnson had gotten his way, those freedmen would not have attained either citizenship or the right to vote.  If I recall correctly, he vetoed the post-war civil rights bill and would have been perfectly happy to see slavery re-established.  As far as public opinion of his administration, I'm sure the "states' rights" contingent LOVED him.    

very impressive reply, TG.

if you gave that list of accomplishments to a Trump supporter, and told them Trump was running on that platform, most would nod approvingly.

Of course they would.  Another reason why Johnson really is out of luck on the "Worst President Ever" crown.  It is already being resized for Trump's head. 

[djAdvocate]

indeed. it is a tough competition, because neither of them accomplished their ultimate goal. but since Trump is still in the running, i also give the nod to him. for now.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 4, 2024 10:14:58 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Today's presidential historians are already listing trump as one of the worst, if not the very worst, presidents in U.S. history.  That belief will not have changed in 100 years in the future.

this thread is running out of steam, so i will add a small part of my own opinion, here.

i agree with Tenn.  the way we can tell how a president is likely to be viewed in the future is how they were viewed in the past, and how they are viewed now.  with VERY rare exceptions (Truman being a notable one), historical opinion of presidents rarely changes over time by a significant degree.  the top 5 presidents a century ago are the top 5 presidents now, with only a couple of small changes in the 20th century.

the FACT that Trump is a bottom decile president now does not bode well for him in the future.  he will likely remain there.  the ONLY way he could change this was by doing away with history, like the Taliban did, imo.  but history is a thorny opponent- particularly in light of the fact that it is not just us that records it!

of course, our journey with Trump is not done yet.  so here is really the only question: are things with him more likely to get better or worse, from the historical perspective.  in other words, is Trump likely to rehabilitate his image, and if not, what is the likelihood of historians doing it?  this is conjecture, but i would posit that it is possible to deduce it based on what we know BOTH of Trump AND historians.

[tallguy]

There MAY have been someone on this board talking about Trump being the worst president in history before I was, but I kinda doubt it.  I've been pushing that line for a LONG time.  

[djAdvocate]

oh, i don't think he has truly earned it yet.
i just don't think it is worth debating while he is still in the running.
the FACT that he has not taken himself out of the running yet makes him
the defacto winner of the race to the bottom.

i am sure you will understand that statement.
but if anyone else wants to question it, i would gladly fill in the gaps.

[djAdvocate]

PS- you didn't answer the question in my post, TG. but you can be forgiven at 3AM.

[tallguy]

Jun 5, 2024 5:31:36 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

PS- you didn't answer the question in my post, TG. but you can be forgiven at 3AM.

Okay, fine, if you're going to be that way.  Johnson did not have a vice-president.  The office remained vacant after he ascended to the presidency.  Happy now? 

(Or was that not the question you meant?)      

[billisonboard]

Jun 5, 2024 4:52:23 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 4, 2024 10:14:58 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Today's presidential historians are already listing trump as one of the worst, if not the very worst, presidents in U.S. history.  That belief will not have changed in 100 years in the future.

this thread is running out of steam, so i will add a small part of my own opinion, here.

i agree with Tenn.  the way we can tell how a president is likely to be viewed in the future is how they were viewed in the past, and how they are viewed now.  with VERY rare exceptions (Truman being a notable one), historical opinion of presidents rarely changes over time by a significant degree.  the top 5 presidents a century ago are the top 5 presidents now, with only a couple of small changes in the 20th century.

the FACT that Trump is a bottom decile president now does not bode well for him in the future.  he will likely remain there.  the ONLY way he could change this was by doing away with history, like the Taliban did, imo.  but history is a thorny opponent- particularly in light of the fact that it is not just us that records it!

of course, our journey with Trump is not done yet.  so here is really the only question: are things with him more likely to get better or worse, from the historical perspective.  in other words, is Trump likely to rehabilitate his image, and if not, what is the likelihood of historians doing it?  this is conjecture, but i would posit that it is possible to deduce it based on what we know BOTH of Trump AND historians.

So is the question now "people" will view him or how historians will rank him? Historians now rank him low and half the people are looking to put him back in the White House.

[seriousthistime]

I think in people's minds Trump will stay on the pedestal he now occupies with the MAGAts, and gain even more support.  I would like to think historians would continue to rank him low, but I have my doubts. 

Mike Huckabee is doing his very best to capture the hearts and minds of the kids in this country by flooding them with propaganda.  

thekidsguide.com/trumpelectionbundle/?promotioncode=T44RB24H&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwmYCzBhA6EiwAxFwfgGgzOMW8Mf2cXEu3s4EhCZMaWJeQQH6KXOlin70HQzaQWtFXhNisRhoC7rkQAvD_BwE

Trump will age out, but I think Don Jr. is primed to step in and run for office at some point. It's scary to think of a Trump political dynasty along the lines of the Kennedys and Bushes. 

[billisonboard]

Jun 5, 2024 9:02:13 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

I think in people's minds Trump will stay on the pedestal he now occupies with the MAGAts, and gain even more support.  I would like to think historians would continue to rank him low, but I have my doubts. 

Mike Huckabee is doing his very best to capture the hearts and minds of the kids in this country by flooding them with propaganda.  

thekidsguide.com/trumpelectionbundle/?promotioncode=T44RB24H&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwmYCzBhA6EiwAxFwfgGgzOMW8Mf2cXEu3s4EhCZMaWJeQQH6KXOlin70HQzaQWtFXhNisRhoC7rkQAvD_BwE

Trump will age out, but I think Don Jr. is primed to step in and run for office at some point. It's scary to think of a Trump political dynasty along the lines of the Kennedys and Bushes. 

Good post. We need these reminders of the world outside of our little bubble we have built here.

[swamp]

Jun 4, 2024 20:56:57 GMT -5 tallguy said:

It's only been about 70 years, but does anybody today think positively of Joe McCarthy?  Trump may be similar in a couple ways, but many times worse overall.  History will not show him well.

I was thinking about that, but didn't mention him because he wasn't a president. 

However, I'm hoping Trump ends up like him.   Broke, alone, and with a chemical dependence problem. 

[swamp]

Jun 5, 2024 4:52:23 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 4, 2024 10:14:58 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Today's presidential historians are already listing trump as one of the worst, if not the very worst, presidents in U.S. history.  That belief will not have changed in 100 years in the future.

this thread is running out of steam, so i will add a small part of my own opinion, here.

i agree with Tenn.  the way we can tell how a president is likely to be viewed in the future is how they were viewed in the past, and how they are viewed now.  with VERY rare exceptions (Truman being a notable one), historical opinion of presidents rarely changes over time by a significant degree.  the top 5 presidents a century ago are the top 5 presidents now, with only a couple of small changes in the 20th century.

the FACT that Trump is a bottom decile president now does not bode well for him in the future.  he will likely remain there.  the ONLY way he could change this was by doing away with history, like the Taliban did, imo.  but history is a thorny opponent- particularly in light of the fact that it is not just us that records it!

of course, our journey with Trump is not done yet.  so here is really the only question: are things with him more likely to get better or worse, from the historical perspective.  in other words, is Trump likely to rehabilitate his image, and if not, what is the likelihood of historians doing it?  this is conjecture, but i would posit that it is possible to deduce it based on what we know BOTH of Trump AND historians.

Trump will not rehabilitate his image because he lacks the insight to be able to do so.   He would first have to recognize he could have done some things better.   When you see yourself as perfect, there is no need to change. 

[swamp]

Jun 5, 2024 9:02:13 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

I think in people's minds Trump will stay on the pedestal he now occupies with the MAGAts, and gain even more support.  I would like to think historians would continue to rank him low, but I have my doubts. 

Mike Huckabee is doing his very best to capture the hearts and minds of the kids in this country by flooding them with propaganda.  

thekidsguide.com/trumpelectionbundle/?promotioncode=T44RB24H&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwmYCzBhA6EiwAxFwfgGgzOMW8Mf2cXEu3s4EhCZMaWJeQQH6KXOlin70HQzaQWtFXhNisRhoC7rkQAvD_BwE

Trump will age out, but I think Don Jr. is primed to step in and run for office at some point. It's scary to think of a Trump political dynasty along the lines of the Kennedys and Bushes. 

Don Jr. doesn't have the charisma that Trump used to have.   

[hurley1980]

Its really hard to say right now....but my guess is he will be remembered as either a failed wanna-be Hitler, or Hitler 2.0.  

Failed Hilter....if he loses the election, American regains its collective mind and we move past (and repair) all of the damage he has done. 

Hitler 2.0....if he wins the next election and turns America into Gilead, OR if he is the reason or the next Civil War. Both will be devastating and would certainly put him in history books.  Whether he would be looked at in a good way or a bad way depends on what kind of shape our country would be in at the time. 

JMHO

[djAdvocate]

Jun 5, 2024 6:53:04 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Jun 5, 2024 5:31:36 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

PS- you didn't answer the question in my post, TG. but you can be forgiven at 3AM.

Okay, fine, if you're going to be that way.  Johnson did not have a vice-president.  The office remained vacant after he ascended to the presidency.  Happy now? 

(Or was that not the question you meant?)      

the question at the end of post 34

[djAdvocate]

Jun 5, 2024 9:02:13 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

I think in people's minds Trump will stay on the pedestal he now occupies with the MAGAts, and gain even more support.  I would like to think historians would continue to rank him low, but I have my doubts. 

Mike Huckabee is doing his very best to capture the hearts and minds of the kids in this country by flooding them with propaganda.  

thekidsguide.com/trumpelectionbundle/?promotioncode=T44RB24H&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwmYCzBhA6EiwAxFwfgGgzOMW8Mf2cXEu3s4EhCZMaWJeQQH6KXOlin70HQzaQWtFXhNisRhoC7rkQAvD_BwE

Trump will age out, but I think Don Jr. is primed to step in and run for office at some point. It's scary to think of a Trump political dynasty along the lines of the Kennedys and Bushes. 

what people?  living people?

i am not sure you understood the question.

[djAdvocate]

Jun 5, 2024 9:48:05 GMT -5 swamp said:

Jun 5, 2024 4:52:23 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

this thread is running out of steam, so i will add a small part of my own opinion, here.

i agree with Tenn.  the way we can tell how a president is likely to be viewed in the future is how they were viewed in the past, and how they are viewed now.  with VERY rare exceptions (Truman being a notable one), historical opinion of presidents rarely changes over time by a significant degree.  the top 5 presidents a century ago are the top 5 presidents now, with only a couple of small changes in the 20th century.

the FACT that Trump is a bottom decile president now does not bode well for him in the future.  he will likely remain there.  the ONLY way he could change this was by doing away with history, like the Taliban did, imo.  but history is a thorny opponent- particularly in light of the fact that it is not just us that records it!

of course, our journey with Trump is not done yet.  so here is really the only question: are things with him more likely to get better or worse, from the historical perspective.  in other words, is Trump likely to rehabilitate his image, and if not, what is the likelihood of historians doing it?  this is conjecture, but i would posit that it is possible to deduce it based on what we know BOTH of Trump AND historians.

Trump will not rehabilitate his image because he lacks the insight to be able to do so.   He would first have to recognize he could have done some things better.   When you see yourself as perfect, there is no need to change. 

agree.  what do you think of the probability of the second half of that question?

[djAdvocate]

Jun 5, 2024 13:48:50 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Its really hard to say right now....but my guess is he will be remembered as either a failed wanna-be Hitler, or Hitler 2.0.  

Failed Hilter....if he loses the election, American regains its collective mind and we move past (and repair) all of the damage he has done. 

Hitler 2.0....if he wins the next election and turns America into Gilead, OR if he is the reason or the next Civil War. Both will be devastating and would certainly put him in history books.  Whether he would be looked at in a good way or a bad way depends on what kind of shape our country would be in at the time. 

JMHO

well, for the purposes of discussion, we have been focusing on failed Hitler.

let's say he succeeds.  how would people view him in 100 years, if that came to pass?

[tallguy]

Jun 6, 2024 2:37:04 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 5, 2024 6:53:04 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Okay, fine, if you're going to be that way.  Johnson did not have a vice-president.  The office remained vacant after he ascended to the presidency.  Happy now? 

(Or was that not the question you meant?)      

the question at the end of post 34

After this many years of trashing both Trump and anyone who believes a word out of his mouth (not to mention those who work and lie on his behalf) at ANY opportunity, is my answer to that seriously in question?  

No, Trump is utterly incapable of even holding the thought that his image needs rehabilitation.  Even if he were able to contemplate that, he could never act on it.  He is totally invested in the image he has created for himself, and will never abandon it.  Donald Trump is not only the worst president in history, but the worst person ever elected.  Historians are still a little slow on putting him at the bottom of the list where he belongs, but they will soon.  And NOBODY wants to see anyone who could possibly be worse ever make it onto the list at all.  Pierce, Buchanan, and Johnson have only been renting the spots at the bottom.  Trump is not only going to buy it, but redevelop it as well.  He's putting down roots, and will be there for a long time.  


Now...will that suffice? 

[djAdvocate]

Jun 6, 2024 4:04:25 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Jun 6, 2024 2:37:04 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

the question at the end of post 34

After this many years of trashing both Trump and anyone who believes a word out of his mouth (not to mention those who work and lie on his behalf) at ANY opportunity, is my answer to that seriously in question?  

No, Trump is utterly incapable of even holding the thought that his image needs rehabilitation.  Even if he were able to contemplate that, he could never act on it.  He is totally invested in the image he has created for himself, and will never abandon it.  Donald Trump is not only the worst president in history, but the worst person ever elected.  Historians are still a little slow on putting him at the bottom of the list where he belongs, but they will soon.  And NOBODY wants to see anyone who could possibly be worse ever make it onto the list at all.  Pierce, Buchanan, and Johnson have only been renting the spots at the bottom.  Trump is not only going to buy it, but redevelop it as well.  He's putting down roots, and will be there for a long time.  


Now...will that suffice? 

yep!  thanks!

i like the renting -vs- owning part.  very prosaic.  

[seriousthistime]

Jun 6, 2024 2:38:29 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 5, 2024 9:02:13 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

I think in people's minds Trump will stay on the pedestal he now occupies with the MAGAts, and gain even more support.  I would like to think historians would continue to rank him low, but I have my doubts. 

Mike Huckabee is doing his very best to capture the hearts and minds of the kids in this country by flooding them with propaganda.  

thekidsguide.com/trumpelectionbundle/?promotioncode=T44RB24H&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwmYCzBhA6EiwAxFwfgGgzOMW8Mf2cXEu3s4EhCZMaWJeQQH6KXOlin70HQzaQWtFXhNisRhoC7rkQAvD_BwE

Trump will age out, but I think Don Jr. is primed to step in and run for office at some point. It's scary to think of a Trump political dynasty along the lines of the Kennedys and Bushes. 

what people?  living people?

i am not sure you understood the question.

The minds of people alive in 100 years.  They are starting with today's kids.  People often develop political beliefs from their family, early on.  Give it a few generations to perpetuate and we are at 100 years. Mike Huckabee is giving those families a jump start at indoctrination.  

School boards are becoming more conservative activist.  I see it becoming worse, not better.  

I used to think that in a national crisis, the tides could turn quickly (i.e, the Great Depression, World War II).  After COVID, I no longer believe it. 

As for Don Jr., I think he is charismatic to the MAGAts. He will step into his father's shoes. 

[djAdvocate]

Jun 6, 2024 8:30:46 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

Jun 6, 2024 2:38:29 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

what people?  living people?

i am not sure you understood the question.

The minds of people alive in 100 years.  They are starting with today's kids.  People often develop political beliefs from their family, early on.  Give it a few generations to perpetuate and we are at 100 years. Mike Huckabee is giving those families a jump start at indoctrination.  

School boards are becoming more conservative activist.  I see it becoming worse, not better.  

I used to think that in a national crisis, the tides could turn quickly (i.e, the Great Depression, World War II).  After COVID, I no longer believe it. 

As for Don Jr., I think he is charismatic to the MAGAts. He will step into his father's shoes. 

think about that, though.  i have no memory of any president in my first 15 years of life, and only from my dad at 15 years, not on my own.  my first tangible memory of a president was the first time i voted.

a 100 year old person is only going to have his own memories.  he would have to be 120 to effectively recall Trump, and i am not counting on that.  so, what will my kids think is the question.

in some ways it is a harder question.  in some ways it is not.

as to Don, Jr, he will also not be alive in 100 years.  but i will add something to that portion of the discussion, as well.  how often does a 2nd generation do as well as 1st gen in politics?  i would say never, but i am sure you will find an exception.  so i will simply say that the general rule is they do worse.

we don't actually like dynastic leadership in the US.  it is something that has worked in our favor in the past, and i happen to think it will work into the future.  on that basis, i am guessing that Don Jr will not do as well as pops.  he will be seen as inferior.

but hey, i have been wrong a bit about Trump in the past.  maybe i will be in the future.  which is why i started this thread.

thanks for your responses.

[hurley1980]

Jun 6, 2024 2:40:51 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 5, 2024 13:48:50 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Its really hard to say right now....but my guess is he will be remembered as either a failed wanna-be Hitler, or Hitler 2.0.  

Failed Hilter....if he loses the election, American regains its collective mind and we move past (and repair) all of the damage he has done. 

Hitler 2.0....if he wins the next election and turns America into Gilead, OR if he is the reason or the next Civil War. Both will be devastating and would certainly put him in history books.  Whether he would be looked at in a good way or a bad way depends on what kind of shape our country would be in at the time. 

JMHO

well, for the purposes of discussion, we have been focusing on failed Hitler.

let's say he succeeds.  how would people view him in 100 years, if that came to pass?

If he succeeds, not everyone is going to agree on how they view him in 100 years.  Those who want women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen will view him as the savior of our country.  The man who brought us back to the Christian nation we are supposed (in their minds) be.  Others will view him as the one who destroy our democracy. But thats only if he wins and project 2025 becomes and stays the law of the land. 

There is also the chance that he succeeds and everything goes to crap, and we elect his predecessor who undoes all he messed up.  It is impossible to know how people will view him 100 years from now since we won't know what the world will look like in 100 years.   Too many different outcomes could happen in the next century.  I know you know this!  

Hell, humans may not even exist 100 years from now, or there will be so few of them, it will be a wasteland of outlaws like Mad Max.  

[djAdvocate]

Jun 6, 2024 14:38:07 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Jun 6, 2024 2:40:51 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

well, for the purposes of discussion, we have been focusing on failed Hitler.

let's say he succeeds.  how would people view him in 100 years, if that came to pass?

If he succeeds, not everyone is going to agree on how they view him in 100 years.  Those who want women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen will view him as the savior of our country.  The man who brought us back to the Christian nation we are supposed (in their minds) be.  Others will view him as the one who destroy our democracy. But thats only if he wins and project 2025 becomes and stays the law of the land. 

There is also the chance that he succeeds and everything goes to crap, and we elect his predecessor who undoes all he messed up.  It is impossible to know how people will view him 100 years from now since we won't know what the world will look like in 100 years.   Too many different outcomes could happen in the next century.  I know you know this!  

Hell, humans may not even exist 100 years from now, or there will be so few of them, it will be a wasteland of outlaws like Mad Max.  

i realize that, hurley.  but again, i am not asking what the Hitler Cult thinks.  they will always think he is the second coming, and "did some great things".  but what will the MAJORITY think?

again, we have examples.  since we are talking about Hitler, let's take Germany.  how does GERMANY view Hitler?

this is an answerable question.  we don't have to just shrug and say "i dunno".  the great thing about history is that we know the analogues.  the great thing about the present is that we know what people think now about people that f(*ked things up 100 years ago.  how do we think of Harding?  he was in office 100 years ago.

i can answer that question.  until Bush, he was arguably the worst president in a century.  and now we have had one that perhaps was slightly better, and another that was arguably worse (who is still maligning us).

[djAdvocate]

Jun 6, 2024 14:38:07 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Jun 6, 2024 2:40:51 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

well, for the purposes of discussion, we have been focusing on failed Hitler.

let's say he succeeds.  how would people view him in 100 years, if that came to pass?

If he succeeds, not everyone is going to agree on how they view him in 100 years.  Those who want women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen will view him as the savior of our country.  The man who brought us back to the Christian nation we are supposed (in their minds) be.  Others will view him as the one who destroy our democracy. But thats only if he wins and project 2025 becomes and stays the law of the land. 

There is also the chance that he succeeds and everything goes to crap, and we elect his predecessor who undoes all he messed up.  It is impossible to know how people will view him 100 years from now since we won't know what the world will look like in 100 years.   Too many different outcomes could happen in the next century.  I know you know this!  

Hell, humans may not even exist 100 years from now, or there will be so few of them, it will be a wasteland of outlaws like Mad Max.  

yes, of course.  but what i am asking here (and i think TG answered it quite well) is how many outcomes would rehabilitate him in the view of a person looking back 100 years?

i am sure that bills would say i lack imagination.  and maybe that is true.  but i can only imagine TWO outcomes that would guarantee him a slot above where he is.  the first is that he comes around and does some good things for America, and apologizes for all the things he messed up on.  the other is that HISTORIANS will remember him more fondly.

ALL of the other possibilities i can think of involve him doing worse than he is now.  and that is pretty measurable, too.

again, i don't think it is that hard.  you just have to look at the long arc of history and find analogues for Trump and read about them.  almost to a person, they are not viewed well.  in fact, i can't think of a single Trumpy example that is viewed kindly by MOST people today.

why do i even care?  because i think if we COULD find someone, our chances of ridding ourselves of him and his nuisance is practically nil.  get me?

[djAdvocate]

if you disagree, cite examples. i might just not be seeing things right.

[djAdvocate]

one final PS- people not remembering him is a totally acceptable (and, in fact, highly probable) response. i HOPE he is not remembered, in fact. i HOPE that people have to investigate to figure out how much this time and place sucked because of him.

[djAdvocate]

i just read about the guy who ran AGAINST Harding in 1920. it is hard to believe that he was a Democrat, based on this platform, and that he lost, given how horrible Harding was.

Cox conducted an activist campaign visiting 36 states and delivering 394 speeches mainly focusing on domestic issues, to the displeasure of the Wilsonians, who pictured the election "as a referendum on the League of Nations."[5] To fight unemployment and inflation, he suggested simultaneously lowering income and business profits taxes. He promised to introduce national collective bargaining legislation and pledged his support to the Volstead Act. Cox spoke in support of Americanization to increase the immigrant population's loyalty to the United States.

Despite all of his efforts, Cox was defeated in the 1920 presidential election by a fellow Ohioan and newspaperman, U.S. Senator Warren G. Harding of Marion. The public had grown weary of the turmoil of the Wilson years and eagerly accepted Harding's call for a "return to normalcy." Cox's running mate was future president, then-Assistant Secretary of the Navy Franklin D. Roosevelt. One of the better-known analyses of the 1920 election is in Irving Stone's book about defeated presidential candidates, They Also Ran. Stone rated Cox as superior in every way over Harding and claimed that Cox would have made a much better president. Stone argued that there was never a stronger case in the history of American presidential elections for the proposition that the better man lost. Of the four men on both tickets, all but Cox would ultimately become president: Harding won and was succeeded by his running mate, Calvin Coolidge, after Harding died in office, and Roosevelt would be elected president in 1932. Cox would, however, outlive all three men by several years.


that was from Wikipedia