pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Dec 22, 2023 11:31:42 GMT -5
When an American who contracted Ebola was brought home to be treated, half of the country lost their shit and wanted all kinds on nonsensical things done. How many people here died from Ebola. Yet, a disease that killed over 1.2 million Americans, and continues to hospitalize and kill people is treated as no big deal, and many of you cannot wait to pile on the medical profession and complain that you were inconvenienced. Unbelievable
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 22, 2023 12:08:53 GMT -5
The statistics have been all over the place. Not so much now, but when covid was killing millions the data was out there. Wouldn't now be when we would be able to review the data and say how effective the measures taken were? Unlike many other studies, we pretty much got the data in real time during Covid. That is almost unheard of, and the resources needed to do that took away from the other 999,999 diseases that were being researched at the same time. That research hasn’t stopped, but I imagine that there is a tremendous backlog. If you want to review the data, my suggestion is to google it, and look at the myriad of articles that have been published at this point. jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2802473www.bmj.com/content/383/bmj-2023-076990 |
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Dec 22, 2023 12:14:50 GMT -5
When an American who contracted Ebola was brought home to be treated, half of the country lost their shit and wanted all kinds on nonsensical things done. How many people here died from Ebola. Yet, a disease that killed over 1.2 million Americans, and continues to hospitalize and kill people is treated as no big deal, and many of you cannot wait to pile on the medical profession and complain that you were inconvenienced. Unbelievable Quit playing the victim. You deal with people all day that voluntarily have smoked for 40 years, you can't be that surprised that people will do what they want. |
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 22, 2023 12:22:53 GMT -5
Maybe it was the sources I follow, but I never heard any medical professional say that that vaccine would prevent you from getting Covid or passing it to someone else. I only ever heard/read it as being compared to the flu vaccine - which contrary to what most people THINK, does not necessarily prevent you from contracting the flu but lessens the symptoms. Which is why the flu vaccine has always been pushed toward the most vulnerable - small children, the elderly, people with other known health issues, and those who take care of those people. Neither did I. I have gotten the flu after taking the flu vaccine too. The result of this was that I had a very minor case of the flu. Like when I caught Covid, I felt punky for about 24 hours, and that was it. I just figured that it took my immune system that long to kick into gear. There was an interesting journal article written about 20+ years ago as to the cost of the flu to employers, families and hospitals. This was unique because it looked at the financial aspect of what happened when the flu ran through a family when one person brought it into the house. It took into account lost work days, both for parent’s illness and dealing with their kid’s illness, and what these cost employers. The article was compelling enough that it spurred many employers to have free flu shot clinics while at work. It was considerably cheaper to pay and bring someone in to immunize staff than the days lost at work. |
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 22, 2023 12:26:22 GMT -5
I with pulmonarymd on this. there's lots of science that's been done. It sucks that it didn't give absolute answer/one and done answers - but then we rarely get absolute answers in life or from science. It also sucks that it didn't give answers that we "wanted" or "expected" or that matched up with our perception of how the world works. That is also pretty common. It also sucks that science often builds on itself. So the answers sometime change over time as new information or studies happen. Where? Show me! If all this information is out there why am I not being linked to it. We get links to everything else under the sun around here. Look guys, they asked us to do some pretty drastic changes between lockdowns and mandatory vaccinations, why aren't they shouting the success of it all from the roof tops. I'm not dismissing any info I'm getting, I'm not getting any info. I mean like articles that summarize the studies and stats, that say here are the numbers. Why is not being shoved in our faces? I didn't have to go searching for the info about the measures they wanted us to take. It is extremely frustrating to have conversations about things around here. I don't make my mind up about things quickly and I ask all kinds of questions to help me decide. You would think that after a decade people would get that. But every single time I don't just buy into the party line blindly I'm accused of having the opposite point of view and accused of all kinds of strange things. This was a pretty easy google. I do admit that one dashboard is not being serviced anymore, but this one is. |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Dec 22, 2023 12:34:13 GMT -5
When an American who contracted Ebola was brought home to be treated, half of the country lost their shit and wanted all kinds on nonsensical things done. How many people here died from Ebola. Yet, a disease that killed over 1.2 million Americans, and continues to hospitalize and kill people is treated as no big deal, and many of you cannot wait to pile on the medical profession and complain that you were inconvenienced. Unbelievable Quit playing the victim. You deal with people all day that voluntarily have smoked for 40 years, you can't be that surprised that people will do what they want. Not playing the victim. People are free to do what they want. Patients who get lung cancer frequently blame the messenger. I do not care. But the level of ignorance here is stunning. You want to know these things, google it. Plenty of people get hives, Nd we usually do not find a cause, and they disappear as mysteriously as they start. But you KNOW better than people who do this for a living. |
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 22, 2023 12:37:33 GMT -5
When an American who contracted Ebola was brought home to be treated, half of the country lost their shit and wanted all kinds on nonsensical things done. How many people here died from Ebola. Yet, a disease that killed over 1.2 million Americans, and continues to hospitalize and kill people is treated as no big deal, and many of you cannot wait to pile on the medical profession and complain that you were inconvenienced. Unbelievable For those that think Covid is not around, we met another couple on our cruise who got covid a few months before the cruise started and thought that they were going to have to bail on it. The husband wound up being hospitalized because it was affecting his eyes, and they were afraid he was going to lose his eyesight. Thinking about it, the eyes are just another mucous membrane portal of entry for the virus, so it makes sense. But until we talked to them, I had never heard of this. He was fully immunized too. Interesting point, early in my career a lot of my work was done looking at mucosal immunity bd trying to develop a vaccine for it. I know that they tried to drag my boss out of retirement to do some work in it during covid, but he turned them down. Most of the people that I know who were working on this have since retired, so I no longer have any contacts as to who has been carrying on this work, and since it has been nearly a decade since I have attended any research meeting (which usually had a mucosal immunity component), I no longer know the names. |
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 22, 2023 12:48:45 GMT -5
Quit playing the victim. You deal with people all day that voluntarily have smoked for 40 years, you can't be that surprised that people will do what they want. Not playing the victim. People are free to do what they want. Patients who get lung cancer frequently blame the messenger. I do not care. But the level of ignorance here is stunning. You want to know these things, google it. Plenty of people get hives, Nd we usually do not find a cause, and they disappear as mysteriously as they start. But you KNOW better than people who do this for a living. Speaking of hives. About 15 years ago, I went on vacation in Mexico. I broke out in hives. I broke out in hives at the swimming pool, sitting on a deck in the Canadian Rockies and in Myrtle beach. I was fully convinced that I was allergic to the sun. If I went out in the sun, I got hives and the pattern was always the same. They started on my ankles and wrists, and moved up my arms and legs. My worst case was in Mexico, where the only place I did not have hives was my face and head. I ruled out sunscreen, foods I ate and beachy things. All of a sudden, it went away about 8 years ago. We went to Belize, no hives. No hives in the Maldives…….or on any of DH’s dive trips. No hives in Mexico last year or in any of the places in the southern hemisphere where the sun beat down really hot. I really feel for dermatologists who need to try to tease these things out. There really is nothing you can do but treat the itch. |
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Dec 22, 2023 13:19:02 GMT -5
I with pulmonarymd on this. there's lots of science that's been done. It sucks that it didn't give absolute answer/one and done answers - but then we rarely get absolute answers in life or from science. It also sucks that it didn't give answers that we "wanted" or "expected" or that matched up with our perception of how the world works. That is also pretty common. It also sucks that science often builds on itself. So the answers sometime change over time as new information or studies happen. If all this information is out there why am I not being linked to it. We get links to everything else under the sun around here. Look guys, they asked us to do some pretty drastic changes between lockdowns and mandatory vaccinations, why aren't they shouting the success of it all from the roof tops. I'm not dismissing any info I'm getting, I'm not getting any info. I mean like articles that summarize the studies and stats, that say here are the numbers. Why is not being shoved in our faces? I didn't have to go searching for the info about the measures they wanted us to take. It is extremely frustrating to have conversations about things around here. I don't make my mind up about things quickly and I ask all kinds of questions to help me decide. You would think that after a decade people would get that. But every single time I don't just buy into the party line blindly I'm accused of having the opposite point of view and accused of all kinds of strange things. I gave you a search topic to google. there's dozens of links from dozens of different medical/health/schools. I didn't post any links originally - because there were so many of them and they cover a lot of topics about Covid19. What exactly do you want to know? I realize this is a lot like having to write that grade school/HS research paper with atleast 5 sources. Give me a "research paper topic sentence" with what you want to know, and I'll see what sources I can find online that goes with that topic sentence.  (please tell me I am not the only one who had a portfolio of "research papers" by end of HS? Stupid liberal art-ish education. ) |
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 22, 2023 16:31:36 GMT -5
Where? Show me! If all this information is out there why am I not being linked to it. We get links to everything else under the sun around here. Look guys, they asked us to do some pretty drastic changes between lockdowns and mandatory vaccinations, why aren't they shouting the success of it all from the roof tops. I'm not dismissing any info I'm getting, I'm not getting any info. I mean like articles that summarize the studies and stats, that say here are the numbers. Why is not being shoved in our faces? I didn't have to go searching for the info about the measures they wanted us to take. It is extremely frustrating to have conversations about things around here. I don't make my mind up about things quickly and I ask all kinds of questions to help me decide. You would think that after a decade people would get that. But every single time I don't just buy into the party line blindly I'm accused of having the opposite point of view and accused of all kinds of strange things. I gave you a search topic to google. there's dozens of links from dozens of different medical/health/schools. I didn't post any links originally - because there were so many of them and they cover a lot of topics about Covid19. What exactly do you want to know? I realize this is a lot like having to write that grade school/HS research paper with atleast 5 sources. Give me a "research paper topic sentence" with what you want to know, and I'll see what sources I can find online that goes with that topic sentence. (please tell me I am not the only one who had a portfolio of "research papers" by end of HS? Stupid liberal art-ish education. ) I never had a bunch of research papers in HS, but I threw away trees worth of hard copy journal articles that I had used for my research when I cleaned out my office. I just threw out the plastic tubs of research I had for when I had started writing my PhD thesis. Another batch of trees. |
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Dec 23, 2023 16:18:19 GMT -5
I don't care whether or not you believe me, but your response is part of the reason people get pissed. The medical community is very quick to explain away any issues people have with the vaccine. I'm your average US citizen, I own a house, I don't believe in conspiracy theories, I have a wife/kids, college educated, etc. I have no doubt in my mind that the hives were triggered by the vaccine, it completely lines up with the timeline of other people's experiences (and there are a lot). The hives were intense right after the vaccine and have slowly lessened, but still flare up if she doesn't take zertec every couple days. I think the medical community plays out these hypotheticals to make people feel like they made the right choice. You get the vaccine and get COVID "Well, it would've been a lot worse". You have a side effect from the vaccine "Well, you can get those same side effects from COVID". All of those things MIGHT be true, but they also might NOT be true. You can't just give one side the benefit of the doubt on everything. This is just my personal experience, but I think any side effects were downplayed for mass adoption of the vaccine. This was for the greater good. For the vast majority of people, you are absolutely right that it probably was for the best. But for people like my wife that experienced these side effects, it's not so great. And everyone that is connected to someone like that and passes on their experience, well it makes people not continue to get vaccinated. So well said!!! No, it's not. A couple hundred million people do not die in car accidents every day in this country. Some of those might be injured but those injuries are less severe because of seat belt or airbag use. You can even find examples of people being injured by the seat belt or airbag. Should the friends and relatives of the 100+ who DO die in traffic accidents each day stop using cars? Stop using seat belts? Disconnect their airbags? Seems pretty similar. A voluntary action which does not necessarily prevent injury, but is surely beneficial for an overwhelming number of people, and which may (anecdotally) have injured a minuscule number? Seems like the analogy holds.... |
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 23, 2023 17:03:15 GMT -5
When an American who contracted Ebola was brought home to be treated, half of the country lost their shit and wanted all kinds on nonsensical things done. How many people here died from Ebola. Yet, a disease that killed over 1.2 million Americans, and continues to hospitalize and kill people is treated as no big deal, and many of you cannot wait to pile on the medical profession and complain that you were inconvenienced. Unbelievable Quit playing the victim. You deal with people all day that voluntarily have smoked for 40 years, you can't be that surprised that people will do what they want. Many in the healthcare field feel similarly. Smokers generally have to go to a designated area to smoke. If you have Covid you might endanger everyone you are near, and there is not a cigarette or obvious signs of vaping to clue someone in that this person has a significant viral load of Covid and is spreading it everywhere. |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Dec 23, 2023 17:09:44 GMT -5
No, it's not. A couple hundred million people do not die in car accidents every day in this country. Some of those might be injured but those injuries are less severe because of seat belt or airbag use. You can even find examples of people being injured by the seat belt or airbag. Should the friends and relatives of the 100+ who DO die in traffic accidents each day stop using cars? Stop using seat belts? Disconnect their airbags? Seems pretty similar. A voluntary action which does not necessarily prevent injury, but is surely beneficial for an overwhelming number of people, and which may (anecdotally) have injured a minuscule number? Seems like the analogy holds.... Perfect analogy. It is a completely utilitarian argument from society’s point of view. Too many people seem to think we have no responsibility to anyone else. It is all about their rights. And when it comes to vaccines, the argument is even stronger, as your refusal puts many people st risk, whereas refusing to wear a seatbelt affects only a few(unless we make an economic argument from society’s viewpoint) |
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Dec 23, 2023 17:27:54 GMT -5
No, it's not. A couple hundred million people do not die in car accidents every day in this country. Some of those might be injured but those injuries are less severe because of seat belt or airbag use. You can even find examples of people being injured by the seat belt or airbag. Should the friends and relatives of the 100+ who DO die in traffic accidents each day stop using cars? Stop using seat belts? Disconnect their airbags? Seems pretty similar. A voluntary action which does not necessarily prevent injury, but is surely beneficial for an overwhelming number of people, and which may (anecdotally) have injured a minuscule number? Seems like the analogy holds.... Interesting example. Do you know that kids under 12 sit in the back seat because they can be killed by the air bag deploying? You know how they know that? Because they did not assume that air bags had nothing to do with the deaths of young children in car accidents. Guess why young children have special car seats and aren't just strapped in with a regular seatbelt. |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Dec 23, 2023 17:33:40 GMT -5
No, it's not. A couple hundred million people do not die in car accidents every day in this country. Some of those might be injured but those injuries are less severe because of seat belt or airbag use. You can even find examples of people being injured by the seat belt or airbag. Should the friends and relatives of the 100+ who DO die in traffic accidents each day stop using cars? Stop using seat belts? Disconnect their airbags? Seems pretty similar. A voluntary action which does not necessarily prevent injury, but is surely beneficial for an overwhelming number of people, and which may (anecdotally) have injured a minuscule number? Seems like the analogy holds.... Interesting example. Do you know that kids under 12 sit in the back seat because they can be killed by the air bag deploying? You know how they know that? Because they did not assume that air bags had nothing to do with the deaths of young children in car accidents. Guess why young children have special car seats and aren't just strapped in with a regular seatbelt. So, is your complaint with only this vaccine, or is it all vaccines? Or is it vaccine mandates? |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 23, 2023 17:45:31 GMT -5
Not playing the victim. People are free to do what they want. Patients who get lung cancer frequently blame the messenger. I do not care. But the level of ignorance here is stunning. You want to know these things, google it. Plenty of people get hives, Nd we usually do not find a cause, and they disappear as mysteriously as they start. But you KNOW better than people who do this for a living. Speaking of hives. About 15 years ago, I went on vacation in Mexico. I broke out in hives. I broke out in hives at the swimming pool, sitting on a deck in the Canadian Rockies and in Myrtle beach. I was fully convinced that I was allergic to the sun. If I went out in the sun, I got hives and the pattern was always the same. They started on my ankles and wrists, and moved up my arms and legs. My worst case was in Mexico, where the only place I did not have hives was my face and head. I ruled out sunscreen, foods I ate and beachy things. All of a sudden, it went away about 8 years ago. We went to Belize, no hives. No hives in the Maldives…….or on any of DH’s dive trips. No hives in Mexico last year or in any of the places in the southern hemisphere where the sun beat down really hot. I really feel for dermatologists who need to try to tease these things out. There really is nothing you can do but treat the itch. Fifty odd years ago a lifeguard friend of mine broke out in hives when she used for the first (and last) time Bain de Soleil sunscreen. I watched it happen. |
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Dec 23, 2023 17:53:05 GMT -5
No, it's not. A couple hundred million people do not die in car accidents every day in this country. Some of those might be injured but those injuries are less severe because of seat belt or airbag use. You can even find examples of people being injured by the seat belt or airbag. Should the friends and relatives of the 100+ who DO die in traffic accidents each day stop using cars? Stop using seat belts? Disconnect their airbags? Seems pretty similar. A voluntary action which does not necessarily prevent injury, but is surely beneficial for an overwhelming number of people, and which may (anecdotally) have injured a minuscule number? Seems like the analogy holds.... Interesting example. Do you know that kids under 12 sit in the back seat because they can be killed by the air bag deploying? You know how they know that? Because they did not assume that air bags had nothing to do with the deaths of young children in car accidents. Guess why young children have special car seats and aren't just strapped in with a regular seatbelt. and my mother used to argue with my pediatrician about the fact that she never put seat belts on us. there had been a rash of child deaths in firey car crashes, as the kids were strapped in and the responders couldn't extract them before the vehicles were engulfed. we learn from disasters, including the health authorities. please look up Thalidomide and the Daikon Shield, from my own industry. I can speak to those. not so much on seat belts and other life safety devices. |
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Dec 23, 2023 18:44:32 GMT -5
No, it's not. A couple hundred million people do not die in car accidents every day in this country. Some of those might be injured but those injuries are less severe because of seat belt or airbag use. You can even find examples of people being injured by the seat belt or airbag. Should the friends and relatives of the 100+ who DO die in traffic accidents each day stop using cars? Stop using seat belts? Disconnect their airbags? Seems pretty similar. A voluntary action which does not necessarily prevent injury, but is surely beneficial for an overwhelming number of people, and which may (anecdotally) have injured a minuscule number? Seems like the analogy holds.... Interesting example. Do you know that kids under 12 sit in the back seat because they can be killed by the air bag deploying? You know how they know that? Because they did not assume that air bags had nothing to do with the deaths of young children in car accidents. Guess why young children have special car seats and aren't just strapped in with a regular seatbelt. Yes, I do know that. You do recall that I had children.... As to your extended point, you do know that the vaccines were originally not authorized for children, and that they only were later after further study. And the point about children needing car seats because they don't fit a regular seat belt or avoiding airbags because they are smaller and can be injured is analogous to having a lower-strength vaccine dosage because they are smaller, which was also the case. Either way, the discussion here was clearly not about children. Nice attempt to derail.... |
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 23, 2023 19:38:21 GMT -5
Speaking of hives. About 15 years ago, I went on vacation in Mexico. I broke out in hives. I broke out in hives at the swimming pool, sitting on a deck in the Canadian Rockies and in Myrtle beach. I was fully convinced that I was allergic to the sun. If I went out in the sun, I got hives and the pattern was always the same. They started on my ankles and wrists, and moved up my arms and legs. My worst case was in Mexico, where the only place I did not have hives was my face and head. I ruled out sunscreen, foods I ate and beachy things. All of a sudden, it went away about 8 years ago. We went to Belize, no hives. No hives in the Maldives…….or on any of DH’s dive trips. No hives in Mexico last year or in any of the places in the southern hemisphere where the sun beat down really hot. I really feel for dermatologists who need to try to tease these things out. There really is nothing you can do but treat the itch. Fifty odd years ago a lifeguard friend of mine broke out in hives when she used for the first (and last) time Bain de Soleil sunscreen. I watched it happen. I ruled out sunscreen too. I had a breakout after driving 4 hour’s to my cousin’s. I sat under an umbrella in the sun by his pool and no sunscreen. Still broke out. |
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Dec 23, 2023 19:54:47 GMT -5
No, it's not. A couple hundred million people do not die in car accidents every day in this country. Some of those might be injured but those injuries are less severe because of seat belt or airbag use. You can even find examples of people being injured by the seat belt or airbag. Should the friends and relatives of the 100+ who DO die in traffic accidents each day stop using cars? Stop using seat belts? Disconnect their airbags? Seems pretty similar. A voluntary action which does not necessarily prevent injury, but is surely beneficial for an overwhelming number of people, and which may (anecdotally) have injured a minuscule number? Seems like the analogy holds.... Interesting example. Do you know that kids under 12 sit in the back seat because they can be killed by the air bag deploying? You know how they know that? Because they did not assume that air bags had nothing to do with the deaths of young children in car accidents. Guess why young children have special car seats and aren't just strapped in with a regular seatbelt. Is your point about seatbelts/airbags - that they shouldn't have been put into passenger vehicles until every possible problem/issue could be carefully tested and removed? Basically they shouldn't have put airbags and seat belts into cars until they figured out that children needed special car seats and the car seats should be in the back seat? And to transfer that back to vaccines - your point is that vaccines should be 100% safe and no one should have an adverse reaction to them BEFORE they are given to the general public?? Is that the issue? If it is your responses about the vaccines are a philosophical/ethical issue and not really an issue with vaccines. Unfortunately it's kind of a "Trolley Problem" (you know that thought experiment) when it comes to vaccines (and just about all medical procedures/medicines - as they all have some potential adverse effect or have some bad thing that could happen.) And it's important to keep in mind the Trolley Problem doesn't have an actual answer that's right all the time. Just like many many many situations in real life. The Covid19 vaccine(s) were tested as well as they could be (and passed the criteria for giving them to the general public). They weren't perfect (and never will be) the virus keeps mutating. Some people are going to die from Covid19, the flu, or in car accidents - even though every possible precaution we have available has been taken. |
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mollyc
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Post by mollyc on Dec 24, 2023 1:23:10 GMT -5
So here are some links regarding adverse reactions to Covid-19 vaccines: Adverse Events Following Immunization with COVID-19 Vaccines December 13, 2020 to January 28, 2023BC decided that after the Feb 3/23 report: "While COVID-19 vaccination continues to be offered, the reporting of these events has declined dramatically since the start of the program. Regular reports about adverse events following immunization will be reported by BCCDC in relation to all vaccines, including COVID-19 vaccines, in the future." Key Findings • As of January 28, 2023, there have been 14,108,529 COVID-19 vaccine doses administered in BC and 6,131 COVID-19 AEFI reports (43.5 reports per 100,000 doses administered) • 485 reports (7.9%) met the serious definition, for a rate of 3.4 per 100,000 doses administered • The most frequently reported events were other allergic event, anaesthesia/paraesthesia, and injection site pain/swelling/redness • Other events have been less frequently reported and are detailed below Adverse Events Following Immunization (AEFIs) for COVID-19 in Ontario: December 13, 2020 to December 3, 2023 Highlights There are a total of 23,127 AEFI reports received following 39,806,128 doses of COVID-19 vaccines administered in Ontario to date with a reporting rate of 58.1 per 100,000 doses administered (0.06 % of all doses administered). This represents an increase of 83 new AEFI reports compared to the previous report. Of the total 23,127 AEFI reports received to date: 21,863 AEFI reports are non-serious (94.5% of total AEFI reports) 1,264 AEFI reports meet the serious definition (5.5% of total AEFI reports) The most commonly reported adverse events are ‘other severe or unusual events’ and ‘allergic skin reactions’, reported in 28.3% and 22.5% of the total AEFI reports, respectively 1,753 reports include a COVID-19 vaccine-specific adverse event of special interest, in which 763 reports also meet the serious definition (see Adverse events of special interest section for more information) To date, two safety signals have been confirmed for COVID-19 vaccines based on AEFIs reported in Canada during the COVID-19 vaccination program roll-out: Thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) and myocarditis/pericarditis. These two signals were also detected internationally. Refer to the Adverse Event section of this report for more information. Ontario is continuing to monitor all AEFIs reported following receipt of COVID-19 immunization in collaboration with its partners. Reported side effects following COVID-19 vaccination in Canada includes data up to Sep 15/23Of the 57,436 individual reports (0.058% of all doses administered), 11,231 were considered serious (0.011% of all doses administered). A total of 99,034,764 vaccine doses have been administered in Canada as of September 15, 2023, including 9,611,886 bivalent doses. Of these, 947 were following a bivalent vaccine, of which 692 were considered non-serious (0.007% of bivalent COVID-19 doses administered) and 255 (0.003% of bivalent COVID-19 doses administered) were considered serious. |
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mollyc
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Post by mollyc on Dec 24, 2023 1:28:35 GMT -5
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Dec 24, 2023 1:50:32 GMT -5
So the TL:DR takeaway from Reply #80 is that 1 out of every 29,000 persons in BC had what was termed a "serious" adverse reaction, one in 31,500 in Ontario, one in 8,800 for all of Canada, and one in every 37,700 who received a bivalent vaccine. Are we supposed to be outraged, I can't tell?  |
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mollyc
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Post by mollyc on Dec 24, 2023 1:57:10 GMT -5
So the TL:DR takeaway from Reply #80 is that 1 out of every 29,000 persons in BC had what was termed a "serious" adverse reaction, one in 31,500 in Ontario, one in 8,800 for all of Canada, and one in every 37,700 who received a bivalent vaccine. Are we supposed to be outraged, I can't tell? Why would you be outraged? This has nothing to do with you. I'm responding to a request made to me. Laterbloomer didn't want to look up the Ontario Public Health information for herself, she wanted links. I gave her links. This thread had been all over the place. It seemed to be settling on a being a fight over adverse reactions so I linked to adverse reactions. This is exactly why I don't bother adding much to this community. You finally find the time to respond to something someone has said to you and someone else (often you) has to be a smartass about it. |
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Dec 24, 2023 2:05:41 GMT -5
So the TL:DR takeaway from Reply #80 is that 1 out of every 29,000 persons in BC had what was termed a "serious" adverse reaction, one in 31,500 in Ontario, one in 8,800 for all of Canada, and one in every 37,700 who received a bivalent vaccine. Are we supposed to be outraged, I can't tell? Why would you be outraged? This has nothing to do with you. I'm responding to a request made to me. Laterbloomer didn't want to look up the Ontario Public Health information for herself, she wanted links. I gave her links. This thread had been all over the place. It seemed to be settling on a being a fight over adverse reactions so I linked to adverse reactions. This is exactly why I don't bother adding much to this community. You finally find the time to respond to something someone has said to you and someone else (often you) has to be a smartass about it. The comment wasn't directed to you. Even if I had quoted you directly it would not necessarily have been directed to you. All you did was supply numbers that had been missing. If it was directed to anybody, it was to the people who claim that the vaccines are unsafe and are harming people. I'm sure there are some here somewhere. Don't you think? |
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 24, 2023 2:22:35 GMT -5
No, it's not. A couple hundred million people do not die in car accidents every day in this country. Some of those might be injured but those injuries are less severe because of seat belt or airbag use. You can even find examples of people being injured by the seat belt or airbag. Should the friends and relatives of the 100+ who DO die in traffic accidents each day stop using cars? Stop using seat belts? Disconnect their airbags? Seems pretty similar. A voluntary action which does not necessarily prevent injury, but is surely beneficial for an overwhelming number of people, and which may (anecdotally) have injured a minuscule number? Seems like the analogy holds.... Interesting example. Do you know that kids under 12 sit in the back seat because they can be killed by the air bag deploying? You know how they know that? Because they did not assume that air bags had nothing to do with the deaths of young children in car accidents. Guess why young children have special car seats and aren't just strapped in with a regular seatbelt. And once upon a time there were no airbags. In fact, if you buy an old enough car, air bags do not exist. Tire sensors do not exist. Things change and products evolve because of issues or concerns. Some of us underfunded folks are shopping cars old enough to be in the category. I like the safety of real physical keys over drive by wire, but eventually my concerns over that will be addressed. There is no perfect. Its medicine not binary logic. |
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Dec 24, 2023 7:37:28 GMT -5
The bottom line is most people are ok with the risk which is small and some are not ok with it. It doesn't matter. I had the vaccine when it came out I will not vac again. It is my choice it doesn't affect anyone else. (please keep the abortion shit out of this just because I mentioned choice).
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Dec 24, 2023 9:46:26 GMT -5
The bottom line is most people are ok with the risk which is small and some are not ok with it. It doesn't matter. I had the vaccine when it came out I will not vac again. It is my choice it doesn't affect anyone else. (please keep the abortion shit out of this just because I mentioned choice). Yet again wrong. If you were talking about other diseases, your point is correct. However, a contagious infectious disease is different. Your actions have a direct effect on others. As we see when measles vaccination rates fall, we have small outbreaks, and eventually a child will die. But your freedom is so much more important. This is the same as the public smoking issue. Many of my patients are sensitive to cigarette smoke. Before smoking bans, they needed to be careful of where they went. When smoking bans came into force, smokers were whining about their rights. Don’t want to vaccinate yourself to help protect society, stay the fuck at home so you do not potentially put the rest of us at risk. |
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djAdvocate
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only posting when the mood strikes me.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 24, 2023 11:13:20 GMT -5
When an American who contracted Ebola was brought home to be treated, half of the country lost their shit and wanted all kinds on nonsensical things done. How many people here died from Ebola. Yet, a disease that killed over 1.2 million Americans, and continues to hospitalize and kill people is treated as no big deal, and many of you cannot wait to pile on the medical profession and complain that you were inconvenienced. Unbelievable Quit playing the victim. You deal with people all day that voluntarily have smoked for 40 years, you can't be that surprised that people will do what they want. bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt this reply doesn't work at all. first of all, smoking is an addiction. COVID is not. second of all, people have no problem getting vaccinated for small pox and polio. that is because when the American government told them to do so a century ago, and informed them of the risks of doing so, they did it. fast forward, and we have this asshole telling us it is the flu and inject ourselves with bleach, and 1.2 million people die. THAT is the problem. the problem is LEADERSHIP. the problem is TRUST IN GOVERNMENT. America is becoming a shithole nation because of it. |
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Spellbound454
Senior Member
"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
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Post by Spellbound454 on Dec 24, 2023 11:15:25 GMT -5
I think its remarkable that we had any vaccine at all.
A novel virus, to which we had no immunity with the potential to infect most of the planet is hugely dangerous, even with its low mortality rate.
There were horrendous scenes in some Countries, of people dying outside hospitals and in the streets ... and health workers at the end of their tether.
Peoples lives were saved by vaccines
It seems a bit pointless to moan about a sore spot on your arm .... when millions have died in the most horrible circumstance.
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