Why don't voters like Joe Biden?

[tallguy]

To answer the question, "Why don't voters like Joe Biden?", I'd suggest that for far too large a subset of the American public, it is because he is not enough of a bigoted, authoritarian, loud-mouthed bully.  I have no idea why those people WANT such an individual to lead them, but apparently they do.  Go figure.      

[Tennesseer]

Sept 7, 2023 14:01:29 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Sept 7, 2023 13:17:14 GMT -5 scgal said:

There is probably a 50 50 chance of a conviction and at that no chance of jail time. He shouldn't run and hopefully not win. Biden on the other hand besides being a democrat with policies that suck his health is terrible too. The guy is a complete babbling idiot, dems cannot hide behind his speech impediment any more. He walks around in circles not knowing where he is at, babbles on not know what he is saying, hell the poor old fool fell off a bike. He is in bad shape and should not be making any decisions regarding the country. If anyone thinks this inept old man is competent should get their head examined.

Again proving you know nothing about medicine. People fall off bicycles all the time, even young people. Does that make them poor physical specimens? You supported Trump, if you think he isn’t a babbling idiot, then you clearly are.

Walking speed is a predictor of mortality. Being able to ride a bicycle requires better fitness and strength. Try again

At age eight, I fell off my bike and broke my arm. Sixty-four years later I'm still here. Got hit by a car at age six too. Still here.

[Tennesseer]

Sept 7, 2023 14:51:10 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 7, 2023 14:03:10 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Just show joe riding a bike juxtaposed to trump having to ride a golf cart when the rest of the g8 walked uphill in Sicily. Then ask who appears healthier. Easy and doesn’t require big words that typical voters can’t understand

looking at it all wrong. Trump would look at it like I'm the POUS why would I walk with other leaders they are beneath me. That is more like it

Wow. Some leader.

[grumpyhermit]

I try not to get too twisted about polling results, as they never seem to be all that accurate.

That said, I get why people aren't excited about Biden. I voted for him last time, and I will vote for him again, but he is far from my first choice. I truly wish the DNC would stop trying to appease the right and run a true progressive,  but I also know it's never going to happen.

I mostly worry that people were galvanized in the last election to oust Trump, and complacency may keep them home this time around if they feel it's safe. Biden is not an exciting candidate. He's just not Trump, which one would hope would be enough for most rational adults but this country's electorate has disappointed me before.

[billisonboard]

Sept 7, 2023 18:22:38 GMT -5 grumpyhermit said:

I try not to get too twisted about polling results, as they never seem to be all that accurate.

That said, I get why people aren't excited about Biden. I voted for him last time, and I will vote for him again, but he is far from my first choice. I truly wish the DNC would stop trying to appease the right and run a true progressive,  but I also know it's never going to happen.

I mostly worry that people were galvanized in the last election to oust Trump, and complacency may keep them home this time around if they feel it's safe. Biden is not an exciting candidate. He's just not Trump, which one would hope would be enough for most rational adults but this country's electorate has disappointed me before.

The DNC would have no choice in running a true progressive if one won enough votes to get the nomination.

[scgal]

Sept 7, 2023 15:15:27 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Sept 7, 2023 15:14:40 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Sure. Trump is an excellent physical specimen/s. Trump was unable to walk up a hill at the G8 in Sicily. He does not exercise. A 76 yo man who does not exercise is not in good physical condition. The rumors I have heard about what Trump’ calcium score in his coronary arteries would be very concerning for anyone, and puts you at a high risk of a heart attack or a stroke. Trump has a famously unhealthy diet and is known not to do any exercise other than golf. So yes, I can unequivocally say that Trump has a higher risk of dying in the next 4 years compared to Trump. There is a whole industry based on determining that risk. It is called insurance. So yes, it is easy to say

Edited to add. I like how you show your maturity level. You sound like a 10 yo

Again you have no idea about his physical health other than what your eyes can see like mine with Biden. You herd rumors oooh now that is a diagnosis. 

To point out I really don't care what you think of my maturity level. You and Trump actually could become friends you both like to put yourselves on a pedastal. 

[happyhoix]

There was no proof of any election interference in 2020. Sixty lawsuits proved that. Still, today, about 75% of the Republican voters believe the 2020 election was stolen, because Trump has constantly, daily, complained about how he got cheated. You say something often enough, other people start to believe you. You even start to believe it yourself. 

Trump is using the same marketing technique about Biden. Biden is too old. Biden has dementia.And part 2 - Biden is the head of a crime family, with Hunter as the primary criminal. 

Even though they’ve never dug up anything provable about Hunter except that he was an addict and he used he’s daddy’s name to secure fat business deals - which is exactly the same thing I could say about Don Jr.  They still believe it. 

Trump is a terrible dad, a horrible husband, a shitty businessman, an even worse politician, but he’s really, really good at this particular marketing technique. 

[mollyanna58]

pulmonarymd I think you meant Trump has a higher risk of dying than Biden; yes?

Trump has a higher risk of dying in the next 4 years compared to Trump. There is a whole industry based on determining that risk. It is called insurance. So yes, it is easy to say

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 7, 2023 20:27:48 GMT -5 mollyanna58 said:

pulmonarymd I think you meant Trump has a higher risk of dying than Biden; yes?

Trump has a higher risk of dying in the next 4 years compared to Trump. There is a whole industry based on determining that risk. It is called insurance. So yes, it is easy to say

Yes, my mistake

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 7, 2023 18:42:50 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 7, 2023 15:15:27 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Edited to add. I like how you show your maturity level. You sound like a 10 yo

Again you have no idea about his physical health other than what your eyes can see like mine with Biden. You herd rumors oooh now that is a diagnosis. 

To point out I really don't care what you think of my maturity level. You and Trump actually could become friends you both like to put yourselves on a pedastal. 

You still don’t get it. You can glean quite a bit about someone’s general health as l the risk of mortality and morbidity from some simple measures. How easily someone can get out of a chair, can you get up off the floor unassisted, ability to climb stairs, walking speed, and how much you work you can do in the form of exercise are all excellent indicators of general health, especially as one ages. Pulmonary rehabilitation, an exercise program for people with severe lung disease, improves quality of life and decreases repeat hospitalizations, even in people using oxygen. This , despite the fact that most of them cannot even walk on a treadmill above 2MPH. You probably think this level of exercise is ridiculous. But, like most conservatives, you refuse to learn new things, distrust experts, and cannot conceive of things outside of your own experience. I would say your ignorance about this is disappointing, but based on the nonsense you post, is par for the course

[Deleted]

Sept 7, 2023 17:44:44 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 7, 2023 14:01:29 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Again proving you know nothing about medicine. People fall off bicycles all the time, even young people. Does that make them poor physical specimens? You supported Trump, if you think he isn’t a babbling idiot, then you clearly are.

Walking speed is a predictor of mortality. Being able to ride a bicycle requires better fitness and strength. Try again

At age eight, I fell off my bike and broke my arm. Sixty-four years later I'm still here. Got hit by a car at age six too. Still here.

I am 47 and fell on Saturday, while walking my dog. Nothing remarkable, just took a step wrong, slipped off a rock and down I went, scraping up my hands and knees.  Not pretty, but I don't think I have dementia, just clumsy.  

[busymom]

Even ignoring the fact that Trump cannot walk a golf course, I was concerned about the video showing he needs 2 hands to hold a glass of water to take a drink.


Of course, I also think Mitch McConnell has something serious going on right now, whether he's having strokes or seizures, something big is wrong with that man, no matter what his "coworkers" are saying.

[dondubble]

At age 69 I had a horrible fall at our lake place. Holding an anchor in one hand and towing the peddle boat with another I slipped on an algae covered rock. Went down so fast had no chance. The top of my head hit the basalt bulkhead. I reached up and felt it and said “Donnadub, I am fucked up and need to go somewhere now”. 13 staples later all I have left is a crescent shaped scar on my part line. Stuff happens.😎

[djAdvocate]

Sept 7, 2023 13:17:14 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 7, 2023 11:59:34 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

not really.  of the five presidents that won in the last (32) years, the first three were in their 40's.

if you mean congress, yes- but only because of people that park there.

the most praised Republican of recent times left office at age 81.

i don't think it means a hill of beans that Biden is as old as he is, if he runs against Trump.  i think Trump is LIKELY to be running from prison.

There is probably a 50 50 chance of a conviction and at that no chance of jail time. He shouldn't run and hopefully not win. Biden on the other hand besides being a democrat with policies that suck his health is terrible too. The guy is a complete babbling idiot, dems cannot hide behind his speech impediment any more. He walks around in circles not knowing where he is at, babbles on not know what he is saying, hell the poor old fool fell off a bike. He is in bad shape and should not be making any decisions regarding the country. If anyone thinks this inept old man is competent should get their head examined.

fervently disagree.  he will serve some jail time, imo, and the remainder on house arrest.  but we can treat this as a side wager.  i contend he will be in prison next November.

as to the health issues, i am not a health professional, and i doubt you are.  but here is what health professionals say:


www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/07/18/biden-trump-age/
www.ft.com/content/ad3a97fc-6394-471b-95b6-a46576808f4a

i am pretty confident that Biden can run circles around Trump, and i expect that to show during debates, if it comes to that.  of course, there is a significant chance it will NOT come to that, as i have been expressing here and elsewhere.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 7, 2023 17:48:57 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 7, 2023 14:51:10 GMT -5 scgal said:

looking at it all wrong. Trump would look at it like I'm the POUS why would I walk with other leaders they are beneath me. That is more like it

Wow. Some leader.

exactly the wrong image that i would want to project.
it does not engender cooperation and makes us look bad.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 7, 2023 18:22:38 GMT -5 grumpyhermit said:

I try not to get too twisted about polling results, as they never seem to be all that accurate.

what makes you say that?  the national polling got it right in 2016 AND 2020.  

i never understand why people say this.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 7, 2023 18:42:50 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 7, 2023 15:15:27 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Edited to add. I like how you show your maturity level. You sound like a 10 yo

Again you have no idea about his physical health other than what your eyes can see like mine with Biden. You herd rumors oooh now that is a diagnosis. 

To point out I really don't care what you think of my maturity level. You and Trump actually could become friends you both like to put yourselves on a pedastal. 

sc- i don't think that is fair.  pmd is a trained medical person.  he rarely asserts ANY authority outside of his profession.  Trump asserts authority on a wide range of subject which he has no expertise on: medicine, the weather, etc.  it is embarrassing, if he were one to suffer embarrassment.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 7, 2023 20:46:12 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Sept 7, 2023 18:42:50 GMT -5 scgal said:

Again you have no idea about his physical health other than what your eyes can see like mine with Biden. You herd rumors oooh now that is a diagnosis. 

To point out I really don't care what you think of my maturity level. You and Trump actually could become friends you both like to put yourselves on a pedastal. 

You still don’t get it. You can glean quite a bit about someone’s general health as l the risk of mortality and morbidity from some simple measures. How easily someone can get out of a chair, can you get up off the floor unassisted, ability to climb stairs, walking speed, and how much you work you can do in the form of exercise are all excellent indicators of general health, especially as one ages. 

you can just look at height and weight.  obesity is a serious health risk.  Biden is 6'1" and 178 lbs.  he is taller than me and weighs LESS.  that is pretty good for ANY man, let alone Biden.  Trump is who knows how tall and close to 300 lbs.  there is no way he is not obese.  he is at serious risk for all kinds of health issues- namely heart attack.  and he gets nearly no exercise.  THIS is why health professionals think Biden will outlive him.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 7, 2023 14:19:05 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Sept 7, 2023 14:06:47 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Not sure exactly how to define "better candidates". I would argue that the GOP has a number of better choices running. It is up to the voters to stop saying they will vote for Trump and back someone else. I found a poll Here that asked, "if not Biden, who?" and Harris lead with an uninspiring 22%. Non-spring chickens Hillary and Bennie were at 15 and 12. Newsom was the only other in double figures. Granted things could change if the poll was for reals but still doesn't suggest that Democrats are strongly ready to get behind someone else. I am reminded of Pogo:

My dream would be Dems and Republicans got together and agreed to toss both Biden and Trump and move on.  Does anyone really want that rematch and the shitshow it would become?  I know I don't. 

of course we don't WANT that.  but let's agree on TWO things:

1) it is rare for a sitting president to NOT win re-election.  it has only happened THRICE in my lifetime. and Biden, being an adult for my entire life, is well aware of that.  in other words, it would be WEIRD for him to not run for re-election.
2) there is a certain grace in symmetry for the twice impeached president to be twice defeated.  if he wishes to go for three, he is welcome to do so, if he has the fortune to be alive in 2025.

these are just simple facts.  whether they translate to votes remains to be seen.

i don't need my president to inspire me right now.  as i said before, Biden is a NORMAL president, and i have come to really like NORMAL in politics, given the whackadoo all over.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 7, 2023 14:44:21 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 7, 2023 14:01:29 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Again proving you know nothing about medicine. People fall off bicycles all the time, even young people. Does that make them poor physical specimens? You supported Trump, if you think he isn’t a babbling idiot, then you clearly are.

Walking speed is a predictor of mortality. Being able to ride a bicycle requires better fitness and strength. Try again

Again proving you like to think you know but really don't. Falling off a bike does not mean you are in poor physical condition but in mid seventies it sure as hell doesn't mean you are. Yes I supported Trump against Hillary all the way and will still stand behind that. I didn't want him as the candidate against Biden but that is who I got to go with. Even with all his faults better than most dems.

really?  in what way is he better than most dems?  you don't need to go on and on about it, just name one aspect of Trump that is better.

[djAdvocate]

Sept 7, 2023 15:06:25 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 7, 2023 14:56:08 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Your lack of knowledge about medicine is stunning. People fall all the time. They fall off curbs, on the stairs, while walking, in the shower, and all kinds of places. The number of falls and the circumstances surrounding them is what matters. How many times has Biden fallen? More than once?

We encourage people to stay active to maintain their health and fitness, regardless of age and medical diagnoses. Those that do have a lower chance of falling. If you understood anything about medicine you would know that. Why should I expect more.

You continue to defend Trump despite his flaunting of the constitution and his inciting an insurrection. You refuse to acknowledge the risks he poses to our government and his lawbreaking. The fact that you and your fellow conservatives can say with a straight face that Biden is more of a risk than re-electing is ludicrous, but that just goes hand and hand with the other absurd things you posyTrump

ETA: so you are now going to vote for trump.

We measure physical activity in something called METS. Riding a bike, walking, and riding in a golf cart all get a number. So yes, being able to ride a bike means you are in better physical condition than someone who cannot, and the numbers back that up. Try again

Blah Blah Blah. Whatever they man is a walking ooops I mean a stumbling disaster. Just because you do not see Trump riding a bike does not mean he is in poor health. Your view is so bias it' you cannot have an accurate view anymore. Atleast I can say Trump would not be good for the country a second time around. You think Biden would actually be fit to lead again that is scary. With judgement like that maybe its time to retire before you hurt someone.

that's true.  and it doesn't mean he is in good health either.

what pmd said, and i agree, is that his RISK FACTORS are higher than Biden.  and that is why, even though Biden is 2 years older than him, Biden is LIKELY to outlive Trump.  i realize that this might be taken as "Trump is in poor health", but i am not making that claim, and neither is pmd.  the claim is that given everything we can observe about the man, notably his poor diet, exercise, and excess weight, he is at greater risk for a number of cardiovascular diseases than Biden.

if you want to argue cognition, go ahead.  that is fairer game, and a LOT more difficult to observe.  but in terms of "who is most likely to reach 90", that would be Biden.

[Opti]

It's also fascinating to watch his followers as in the past they did not like smart people but seem to like his constant claims of knowing so much. I found this video, which is long, but starts with the brags and ends with the interesting ideas Trump has voiced like windmills causing cancer.

[djAdvocate]

i find the on the job learning quotes even more distressing than his fake knowledge.

i EXPECT a president to surround himself with EXPERTS and to DELEGATE.

it really seems like Trump tried to stay in the middle of everything.  that is very inefficient, at best.  at worst, it takes control away from the people who do the job best.

see, this is the problem with Trump.  he thinks that because he is head of the Trump Corporation that he would make a good president.  but as far as i can tell, he doesn't manage PEOPLE well at all.  and that is CRUCIAL to doing this job.  i mean how many people are IN the Trump Corporation?  10?  all of the businesses i run have more people in them than that.

[happyhoix]

Sept 7, 2023 22:25:09 GMT -5 dondubble said:

At age 69 I had a horrible fall at our lake place. Holding an anchor in one hand and towing the peddle boat with another I slipped on an algae covered rock. Went down so fast had no chance. The top of my head hit the basalt bulkhead. I reached up and felt it and said “Donnadub, I am fucked up and need to go somewhere now”. 13 staples later all I have left is a crescent shaped scar on my part line. Stuff happens.😎

Sorry about your fall! I hope Donnadub handles this better than I do. DH has a habit of falling whenever we go on vacation (this is because he stops looking at where he is walking and starts looking all around like a tourist). I have a genetic predisposition (from my Mom’s line) to laugh when people fall down. This will probably get me killed one day, when I laugh at the wrong person. (To be fair, nothing is funnier to me than when I personally fall, and will usually lay on the ground laughing for a while when I do). 

So our marriage has pretty much been DH falling in foreign places and me laughing, while bystanders stare at me in horror. 

He says he’s used to it. I always provide first aid when required - I’m just usually laughing when I do. 

[tbop77]

I think (maybe wishful thinking) that people are tired of career politicians.  He has been in politics all his life and look how fucked up the country is.  The dislike for Joe Biden, ie career politicians, is what brought us Donald Trump.  I felt the same way in the 2016 election and considered voting for Trump.  After 8 years of President Obama and the party of NO, I considered maybe he would use the bully pull pit to get the country moving forward.  He really didn't have any policies, maybe he would surround himself with good people and make informed decisions.  After he dissed the Gold Star Family, well, that was it for me.  That proved his true colors.  

Which leads me to why I like Joe Biden.  HE'S NOT DONALD TRUMP!  I often think about how conservatives say that Obama embarrassed the US during his term.  Somehow they see Trump's actions different.  How?  Beats me, I still wonder how real conservatives can support this man.  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I'm tired of extremely old men running the country.  They aren't even my parents' age they are my GRANDPARENTS age.   Their wealth, privilege and age makes them severely out of tune with those who aren't of a similar mindset.

But they've done such a good job of saber rattling and convincing people if we don't continue to elect rich white older than dirt men the world will fall apart and the brown people will take over here we are. 

Trump wasn't because people were tired of career politicians.  Trump was a direct shot across the bow over the fact that a relatively young black man was president TWICE and we got within a hairs breath of a woman being president. 
Now we have a female, non white VP.   Something were to happen to Biden a Southeast Asian half African American woman could be president!  Gasp . .. choke . .die. 

Trump is a symbol to show everyone else their place in the universe and that we better stay put unless we want to be frog marched as a certain former poster was fond of saying.

We need to stop letting an ever shrinking minority of people dictate how the world is run and start electing people who actually represent the fabric of America.  Unfortunately I think it's going to take all the way till my generation, early millennials, die before that happens.  But maybe not I might live to see actual change with Gen Z coming up behind me.

ETA:  There are reasons I disagree with Biden too and a lot of it has to do with the above.  I would really like to see someone who has the same body parts as me as president one day at bare minimum.  I also disagree with some decisions he made and that is the beauty of America I am allowed to disagree with our politicians.

I just don't buy into the justifications people claim to have for voting for Trump.   Sorry but he is because you are a bunch of scared people who think of anyone besides you gets to start at the same place in line it may actually come to light that you aren't where you are because you are so gosh darn talented, special, God loving or whatever and that you actually suck.  A real metriocracy scares the shit out of a lot of people.  Trump is a symbol against that and ensures we remain in the "good old days" where a mediocre white straight dude never has to worry about his minority co-worker out competing him.

[billisonboard]

Barack Obama was President because he stepped up and made the case he should be elected. He did that successfully against two old white guys. If there is a person out there who is willing and able, they need to do the same.

[Tennesseer]

Sept 7, 2023 21:07:25 GMT -5 busymom said:

Even ignoring the fact that Trump cannot walk a golf course, I was concerned about the video showing he needs 2 hands to hold a glass of water to take a drink.


Of course, I also think Mitch McConnell has something serious going on right now, whether he's having strokes or seizures, something big is wrong with that man, no matter what his "coworkers" are saying.

Private drinker? Alcoholic DTs (Delirium Tremens)? trump states he doesn't drink. trump lies about everything else so why should we believe him when he states he doesn't drink alcohol.

[billisonboard]

Sept 8, 2023 8:42:54 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 7, 2023 21:07:25 GMT -5 busymom said:

Even ignoring the fact that Trump cannot walk a golf course, I was concerned about the video showing he needs 2 hands to hold a glass of water to take a drink.


Of course, I also think Mitch McConnell has something serious going on right now, whether he's having strokes or seizures, something big is wrong with that man, no matter what his "coworkers" are saying.

Private drinker? Alcoholic DTs (Delirium Tremens)? trump states he doesn't drink. trump lies about everything else so why should we believe him when he states he doesn't drink alcohol.

I think there are too many thirsty reporters out there looking to gin up anything on Trump for him to be a private drinker.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Biden is known liar and fraud for one, which derailed his first efforts.

from wikipedia:



Earlier that year he had also used passages from a 1967 speech by Robert F. Kennedy (for which his aides took blame) and a short phrase from John F. Kennedy's inaugural address; two years earlier he had used a 1976 passage by Hubert Humphrey.[145] Biden responded that politicians often borrow from one another without giving credit, and that one of his rivals for the nomination, Jesse Jackson, had called him to point out that he (Jackson) had used the same material by Humphrey that Biden had used.[15][22]







A few days later, an incident in law school in which Biden drew text from a Fordham Law Review article with inadequate citations was publicized.[22] He was required to repeat the course and passed with high marks.[146] At Biden's request the Delaware Supreme Court's Board of Professional Responsibility reviewed the incident and concluded that he had violated no rules.[147]







Biden has made several false or exaggerated claims about his early life: that he had earned three degrees in college, that he attended law school on a full scholarship, that he had graduated in the top half of his class,[148][149] and that he had marched in the civil rights movement.[150] The limited amount of other news about the presidential race amplified these disclosures[151] and on September 23, 1987, Biden withdrew his candidacy, saying it had been overrun by "the exaggerated shadow" of his past mistakes.[152]

As a pseudo academic, some of these are just deal breakers for me for anyone in public office. I swore up and down I would not vote for him in 2020, but the situation being what is was, I ended up doing so.

Other than that, I've found him to be extremely unlikeable as a person, and I'm not a fan of the way he approches various actions/policies. Afganistan withdrawal could have been handled much better. The inital promises on student loans and then doing nothing for years was annoying at best. He is congnizant of climate change dangers, but isn't doing enough fast enough. This is blossoming to a crises of epic proportions and just paying lip service to common sense measures isn't going to cut it. We will all look back at the immense possibilities and knowledge we had at this period in time and marvel at our own stupidity and lack of foresight. Biden is aware, and is just proceeding cautiously - which could be a death sentence for millions of people, not to mention the ecosystems for flora and fauna.

I do not find him trustable or to have intengrity in the slightest.

That said, he is way too old-school to do anything that would actual threaten democracy in the US. He will frequently do something akin to the right thing just because he isn't wired to think too outrageously and will listen to advisors and consider perspectives. He is cetainly the least of our worries with trump as the gop frontrunner and desantis as the alternative.

The age is just another annoying and negative issue that I am not too concerned about. We have a vice president for a reason, so the back up exists and terms are only 4 years so the VP moving into P position wouldn't last too long. I hope that those around him would not hesitate to remove him if he lost his factulties, but then look at diane fienstein and mitch mcconnell....that is all very scary.....

Why are we inundated with the geriatric crew in government? Seems like they just clutch at power refusing to let go. reminds me of senator palpatine..