Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Aug 11, 2023 11:29:13 GMT -5
They wouldn't be suffering and drowning if they had stayed in their own, perfectly safe Countries. huh? so massive droughts and earthquakes are now perfectly safe? your posts are confusing me a lot, Spell. also: how does the left benefit from "illegal" migration? because they are Marxists. Marx’s “Communist Manifesto ends with an appeal to class solidarity, not national solidarity: “Proletariat of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains.” Its not a political system that works very well. Everyone is equal because no-one has anything. ....... Millions have died under Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong. If thats what you want.... Go for it.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Aug 11, 2023 11:32:36 GMT -5
I've told you your Wokery cult is bull sh1t......but you wont listen
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 11, 2023 11:36:34 GMT -5
huh? so massive droughts and earthquakes are now perfectly safe? your posts are confusing me a lot, Spell. also: how does the left benefit from "illegal" migration? because they are Marxists. Marx’s “Communist Manifesto ends with an appeal to class solidarity, not national solidarity: “Proletariat of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains.” Its not a political system that works very well. Everyone is equal because no-one has anything. ....... Millions have died under Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong. If thats what you want.... Go for it. so, let me sure i got this straight. the left wants massive overwhelming immigration to create a one world government which leads to a classless society and the abolition of capital? please confirm. NOTE: please don't speculate about what i want. what i want is actually not relevant to the discussion. but if you wish to know, i own six businesses. i am a better capitalist than Trump is, because i actually know how to run a business at a profit, and i have never had one fail. you would have trouble locating a less Marxist member of the board.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 11, 2023 11:37:45 GMT -5
I've told you your Wokery cult is bull sh1t......but you wont listen and i have told you that Woke is nothing more than awareness, but you won't listen. that's ok. you have permission to be wrong and thoughtless. so do i.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Aug 11, 2023 11:40:09 GMT -5
I aware of that dj and have a lot of respect for you.
but yes that a Marxist ideology, we have them in our country and you have them in yours.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 11, 2023 11:47:29 GMT -5
ok. i think a simpler explanation is that lefty lawyers, to use your parlance, are just going where the work is. they don't give half a damn about the sociological consequences of doing it, so long as they can flip a pound doing it.
i have an analogy for you. i used to kind of think the world was out to get me. at some point i realized that people are so self absorbed that they have no time to even CONSIDER me, so i am pretty much free to do what i like, so long as i don't cause others pain and suffering, and i will never get any real push-back. that has turned out to be MOSTLY true. however, once in a while you run into someone truly crazy, who is all up in your business without any provocation, and can really make a mess of your life. it is unfortunate AND unlucky when that happens, but probably not a result of anything you did. they chose you in the way that a junkie chooses heroin. they took you into their veins, and now they are addicted.
why did i say all of that? because i think the world is chaotic, and people are chaotic, and systems and ideas are chaotic, and there is very little order to it. looking for a grand, overarching conspiracy is generally a waste of time. even the proponents of conspiracies realize at some point how ineffective they are at creating real, lasting change. again, generally speaking, with the exception of the truly crazy, radical, or determined. and their numbers are diminishingly few.
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dondubble
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Post by dondubble on Aug 11, 2023 11:49:56 GMT -5
Any idea that woke Marxists are some existential threat to America is totally laughable. We don’t need a king either.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 11, 2023 11:51:36 GMT -5
Any idea that woke Marxists are some existential threat to America is totally laughable. We don’t need a king either. America might not be the least Woke developed nation, but it is absolutely the least Marxist. and the UK is right behind it. please don't make me dredge up the stats that prove it. it would take me hours to find them. it is not a well known OR RESEARCHED fact, even inside the US.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Aug 11, 2023 12:16:44 GMT -5
Plenty been written about it in the heavies. I suppose the ultimate aim, and the existential threat to America would be revolution. Won't happen?... there are already whispers of civil war.
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Post by dondubble on Aug 11, 2023 12:51:51 GMT -5
Plenty been written about it in the heavies. I suppose the ultimate aim, and the existential threat to America would be revolution. Won't happen?... there are already whispers of civil war. Those that want it will end up being too chicken shit to do it. A pile of dead bodies would find them scurrying back home like rats.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Aug 11, 2023 13:22:18 GMT -5
No perceived noble cause lasts a minute after victory ...... That's the way it has always been. Makes you wonder why people fight in the first place.
You and I live in free democracies..... We can pretty much do as we like. With that comes responsibility. We choose our government we abide by the majority and we respect our laws (or face the consequences)
Its not like that in all corners of the World.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 11, 2023 13:50:42 GMT -5
Plenty been written about it in the heavies. I suppose the ultimate aim, and the existential threat to America would be revolution. Won't happen?... there are already whispers of civil war. walkers -vs- M1A1. my money is on the latter.
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Post by Opti on Aug 11, 2023 17:05:49 GMT -5
huh? so massive droughts and earthquakes are now perfectly safe? your posts are confusing me a lot, Spell. also: how does the left benefit from "illegal" migration? because they are Marxists. Marx’s “Communist Manifesto ends with an appeal to class solidarity, not national solidarity: “Proletariat of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains.” Its not a political system that works very well. Everyone is equal because no-one has anything. ....... Millions have died under Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong. If thats what you want.... Go for it. Very little of the Left is Marxist. That's RW propaganda. Heck Hollywood actors and writers should not be striking if that was true; things would already be shared ... right?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 11, 2023 17:23:14 GMT -5
huh? so massive droughts and earthquakes are now perfectly safe? your posts are confusing me a lot, Spell. also: how does the left benefit from "illegal" migration? because they are Marxists. Marx’s “Communist Manifesto ends with an appeal to class solidarity, not national solidarity: “Proletariat of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains.” Its not a political system that works very well. Everyone is equal because no-one has anything. ....... Millions have died under Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong. If thats what you want.... Go for it. I think Marxism really in truth does not exist. At best dictators have used the front half of the philosophy to dominate others in their country. If you have a leader and his buddies with most of the stuff and the power, it is far from classless and stateless. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism%E2%80%93LeninismMarxism–Leninism holds that a two-stage communist revolution is needed to replace capitalism. A vanguard party, organized through democratic centralism, would seize power on behalf of the proletariat and establish a one-party socialist state, called the dictatorship of the proletariat. The state would control the means of production, suppress opposition, counter-revolution, and the bourgeoisie, and promote Soviet collectivism, to pave the way for an eventual communist society that would be classless and stateless.[9]
This never happens as the dictators really only want phase one. Really its not like anyone was considered equal to Stalin or Mao when they were in power, so IMO its not real Marxism, its just yet another way to dominate citizens. And because of that hopefully won't be popular in America.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Aug 12, 2023 6:15:28 GMT -5
Its got a bit more nuanced since those days, (mainly because it didn't work in the first place) ... now called Neo-Marxism.
Rises up every now and then usually fizzles out.
It depends on a system called critical race theory.... and is heavily entrenched in Universities, Schools and work places throughout the land. It teaches that American democracy is a lie, racism and victimhood cannot be overcome. so you need a new system in place.
Ok, nobody wants people to feel that they are unequal in a democracy. So why can't it be overcome?
but theres more
The objective is to destroy the old and bring in the new.......Thats the American dream, (prosperity, liberty) out of the window. Attack the institutions, religious moral guidance and democracy, silence anyone who points out the flaws. Rewrite history so that the state is always the bad guy, .......... make you think that the Country and Capitalism is the evil oppressor, (All about the oppressor and the oppressed)
and.... replace the actual truth.... with "my" truth.......... WTF
Do I think most people are Marxists.... No I don't.
but its as well to remember that this is a political ideology and has never created a fairer society any time its been enacted and sometimes it ends very badly (which has been conveniently glossed over) as in the Cambodian killing fields.
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 13, 2023 13:38:21 GMT -5
all the while that was happening, an analogy was taking place in East Timor, similar is scale and atrocity. and backed by the US.
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Post by Opti on Aug 13, 2023 14:42:46 GMT -5
Plenty been written about it in the heavies. I suppose the ultimate aim, and the existential threat to America would be revolution. Won't happen?... there are already whispers of civil war. Those that want it will end up being too chicken shit to do it. A pile of dead bodies would find them scurrying back home like rats. And the people who want civil war the most are from the extreme right, so not Marxists. Fascists perhaps, but not Marxists.
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Post by Opti on Aug 13, 2023 15:05:54 GMT -5
Its got a bit more nuanced since those days, (mainly because it didn't work in the first place) ... now called Neo-Marxism. Rises up every now and then usually fizzles out. It depends on a system called critical race theory.... and is heavily entrenched in Universities, Schools and work places throughout the land. It teaches that American democracy is a lie, racism and victimhood cannot be overcome. so you need a new system in place. Ok, nobody wants people to feel that they are unequal in a democracy. So why can't it be overcome? but theres more The objective is to destroy the old and bring in the new.......Thats the American dream, (prosperity, liberty) out of the window. Attack the institutions, religious moral guidance and democracy, silence anyone who points out the flaws. Rewrite history so that the state is always the bad guy, .......... make you think that the Country and Capitalism is the evil oppressor, (All about the oppressor and the oppressed) and.... replace the actual truth.... with "my" truth.......... WTF Do I think most people are Marxists.... No I don't. but its as well to remember that this is a political ideology and has never created a fairer society any time its been enacted and sometimes it ends very badly (which has been conveniently glossed over) as in the Cambodian killing fields. I think what you are missing is that it is rare any one system or philosophy stays true to its roots. You have your beliefs about CRT based on I guess the media you consume? I think CRT means different things to different people and I prefer some of them over others. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_race_theoryIn 2017, University of Alabama School of Law professor Richard Delgado, a co-founder of critical race theory,[citation needed] and legal writer Jean Stefancic define CRT as "a collection of activists and scholars interested in studying and transforming the relationship among race, racism, and power".[34] In 2021, Khiara Bridges, a law professor and author of the textbook Critical Race Theory: A Primer,[11] defined critical race theory as an "intellectual movement", a "body of scholarship", and an "analytical toolset for interrogating the relationship between law and racial inequality."[20]njalternateroute.rutgers.edu/blog/understanding-critical-race-theory-and-how-incorporate-its-principles-classroomA survey conducted by the Association of American Educators found that Critical Race Theory bans are not even necessary. Out of the more than 1,100 teachers surveyed, more than 96 percent of respondents said their schools did not require them to teach Critical Race Theory. Nearly half (45 percent), however, said they would like the option to incorporate the theory into their lessons and the majority (78 percent) said the current discussion on Critical Race Theory is “interfering with a productive and necessary discussion regarding race in America.”
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Aug 14, 2023 2:38:51 GMT -5
Sounds like it was written by a fan Cleverly stitched together psycho babble which hides what you are really looking at. A quick looks at an opinion piece. nypost.com/2021/05/06/what-critical-race-theory-is-really-about/So what is it. Equity sounds a bit like equality, but its not..... its the redistribution of wealth. CRT rejects equality as they say it provides camouflage for white supremacy and oppression. There seems to be more and more excitement about pure antiracism.... ie setting up departments and organisations to ensure its directive, closing down free speech so its unopposed......the objective being still think its not Marxist? A closer look at some of the points raised in this article What? .................... Its ludicrous.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Aug 14, 2023 5:24:24 GMT -5
You are quoting the my post? That is a rag of a newspaper run by the Murdoch. No one seriously believes anything written in that paper. It is a piece of crap. As bad as Fox News. If that is where you are getting your information about America it is no wonder you are misinformed
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Post by Opti on Aug 14, 2023 5:56:11 GMT -5
Spell, I agree with PMD, an opinion piece in the NY Post is not a way to get unbiased useful information. Heck just reading the start of it, showed how off the rails the author is.
"Critical race theory is fast becoming America’s new institutional orthodoxy. Yet most Americans have never heard of it — and of those who have, many don’t understand it."
Its not mainstream thought nor is it even taught most places.
You don't need to understand Marxism to understand Critical Race Theory. In fact, in looking up Neo Marxism I saw reference to critical theory which is about social systems and social structures. Neo Marxism has adopted it, not the other way round. Its easy to find extremists in thought on any subject and the NY Post and other RW mags seem to excel in finding these folks and selling them to its readers as if its mainstream thought instead of fringe believers.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Aug 14, 2023 7:39:44 GMT -5
Its still true though.
I knew you were going to say something similar but chose a post that is easily understandable.
I could have chosen something British because the commentators are saying the same things.
Universities, Schools even the entertainment industry have reference to this.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Aug 14, 2023 7:44:39 GMT -5
no, it fits your bias. that doesn't make it true.
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Post by chiver78 on Aug 14, 2023 7:45:30 GMT -5
You are quoting the my post? That is a rag of a newspaper run by the Murdoch. No one seriously believes anything written in that paper. It is a piece of crap. As bad as Fox News. If that is where you are getting your information about America it is no wonder you are misinformed pretty sure it's already been pointed out to her that the post isn't worth the paper it's printed on. it fits her bias, though, same as those that point to Fox News or other garbage outlets.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Aug 14, 2023 7:55:35 GMT -5
FYI I can't get fox news from here, never seen it in my life.
Not willing to entertain that things have changed recently. Not willing to try to find out what it is about.
Close down anyone who realises that something is amiss
Its called cancelling ..... and just one of the tactics.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Aug 14, 2023 7:58:22 GMT -5
Its still true though. I knew you were going to say something similar but chose a post that is easily understandable. I could have chosen something British because the commentators are saying the same things. Universities, Schools even the entertainment industry have reference to this. The Ny Post is not a reputable source. It has been a crap paper since my childhood. I grew up in the NY area. Even in the 70s, the Post was the worst ranked paper. The Murdoch's have done nothing to improve its reputation, not its journalism. Quoting it just shows how biased you are. It is the Fox News of NY papers, and is the embodiment of "If it bleeds, it leads." But it fits your narrative. Since you do not live here, if this is the sources you want to use to further your criticism of the US, just shut up. I am sure if I used one of the Fleet street rags to criticize the UK, you would be howling about my ignorance, so take your own advice.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Aug 14, 2023 8:00:46 GMT -5
FYI I can't get fox news from here, never seen it in my life. Not willing to entertain that things have changed recently. Not willing to try to find out what it is about. Close down anyone who realises that something is amiss Its called cancelling ..... and just one of the tactics. No, you need to do better research about the US. If you quoted the NY Times, the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal, or the LA Times, we would take you more seriously. But those papers will have opinion pieces from both sides of the aisle. Quoting opinion pieces, and thinking they represent the reality of life in the US is th problem we have with you.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Aug 14, 2023 9:47:26 GMT -5
sharp, justified criticism is not the same thing as a canceling.
in fact, it is the life blood of Democracy.
without it, nutcases like Trump go unchecked.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Aug 14, 2023 10:43:31 GMT -5
Alright, plenty written about in the NYT this one on why wokeness will fail. www.nytimes.com/2021/11/09/opinion/social-justice-america.html"A typical example: The American Medical Association recently published its “Guide to Language, Narrative and Concepts,” which includes such recommendations as replacing the term “disadvantaged” with “historically and intentionally excluded,” “social problem” with “social injustice,” “vulnerable” with “oppressed,” and “blacklist” and “blackmail” with words that don’t suggest an association between the word “black” and “suspicion or disapproval.” This isn’t silly. It’s Orwellian. It’s a blunt attempt to turn everyday speech into a perpetual, politicized and nearly unconscious indictment of “the system.” Anyone who has spent time analyzing how the totalitarian regimes of the 20th century operated will note the similarities" The Orwellian nightmare is Communism. There's other pieces but its gone behind a paywall. This one in the WSJ again behind a paywall you can only see excerpts. www.wsj.com/articles/kimberle-crenshaw-critical-race-theory-woke-marxism-education-11626793272this one newdiscourses.com/2020/07/complex-relationship-between-marxism-wokeness/In fact there are pieces challenging these ideal across the net. I get my sources from all over and without prejudice. If a particular theme keeps coming up I want to know more. If this has caused enough resentment for talk of civil war. Its as well to know why. Oh and I have looked at totalitarian regimes of the 20th century. More out of interest really and can see the similarities.
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Post by grumpyhermit on Aug 14, 2023 11:25:22 GMT -5
Alright, plenty written about in the NYT this one on why wokeness will fail. www.nytimes.com/2021/11/09/opinion/social-justice-america.html"A typical example: The American Medical Association recently published its “Guide to Language, Narrative and Concepts,” which includes such recommendations as replacing the term “disadvantaged” with “historically and intentionally excluded,” “social problem” with “social injustice,” “vulnerable” with “oppressed,” and “blacklist” and “blackmail” with words that don’t suggest an association between the word “black” and “suspicion or disapproval.” This isn’t silly. It’s Orwellian. It’s a blunt attempt to turn everyday speech into a perpetual, politicized and nearly unconscious indictment of “the system.” Anyone who has spent time analyzing how the totalitarian regimes of the 20th century operated will note the similarities" The Orwellian nightmare is Communism. There's other pieces but its gone behind a paywall. This one in the WSJ again behind a paywall you can only see excerpts. www.wsj.com/articles/kimberle-crenshaw-critical-race-theory-woke-marxism-education-11626793272this one newdiscourses.com/2020/07/complex-relationship-between-marxism-wokeness/In fact there are pieces challenging these ideal across the net. I get my sources from all over and without prejudice. If a particular theme keeps coming up I want to know more. If this has caused enough resentment for talk of civil war. Its as well to know why. Oh and I have looked at totalitarian regimes of the 20th century. More out of interest really and can see the similarities. So your contention is that language should not evolve over time? That as society progresses, language shouldn't keep pace? Why is the problem that we are attempting to make the language of today more inclusive and NOT that the language of the past was inherently problematic? That is was pushing it's own agenda? Speech has ALWAYS been political, and the way we talk about people and populations matter. Just why, pray tell, do you think those populations have been "disadvantaged"? Couldn't possible be that they have been historically and intentionally excluded? This difference with a lot of these examples seems to be that it is shifting the onus from the object of the injustice, to the perpetrator. Big shock that white people, who have been the historical beneficiaries of this, have an issue with it.
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