Sanctuary Cities/States overflow with illegals

[djAdvocate]

Aug 10, 2023 9:53:21 GMT -5 Tiny said:

For Rip:

Mexico is one of our biggest trading partners (China is no longer our biggest...).

I thought trump's "Mexico will pay for the wall" was a euphemism for America putting pressure on our biggest trading partner to better police (spend it's own money - not ours)  it's own borders and population to keep them from crossing thru Mexico OR providing betting living conditions for their own people (so they didn't need to to flee to America for a better life.)

But, I was wrong and trump and it seems Republicans want to just literally build a wall (which seems terribly inefficient - why not just lay down land mines? - probably would cost less over time and would probably be a good solution for where American towns/cities/houses are close to the actual border - no view ruined by an ugly "wall".  <-- seems like a Republican thing to do. 

bear traps.  no, wait.....laser drones!

[Tennesseer]

New York Times article. Behind a paywall. If interested in reading the complete article let me know. I will someone find a way for you to read it. Automatically being forwarded to Rip.

We Know What Doesn’t Work at the Border. Here’s a Better Solution.

U.S. asylum laws were designed to protect people fleeing harm. They were enacted in the decades following the Holocaust to ensure that the United States never again turned away people fleeing persecution. But now, many blame these laws for the chaos and inhumanity at the nation’s southern border.

The biggest blow to America’s commitment to asylum came during the pandemic, when former President Donald Trump invoked Title 42, an emergency measure that allowed border agents to turn away asylum seekers, under the justification of preventing the spread of the virus.

When Title 42 restrictions were lifted in May, President Biden enacted a carrot-and-stick approach aimed at deterring new asylum seekers from traveling by foot to the border. These new measures included a set of legal pathways, including a parole program that allows people from select countries, including Cuba and Haiti, to legally enter the country for at least two years, provided they have a financial sponsor in the United States. Doing so has discouraged would-be migrants from taking a dangerous trek with a smuggler, often through multiple continents.

This approach would have been a great step forward if it wasn’t paired with a counter measure that prohibits some asylum-seekers at the border from applying for protection in the United States. The vast majority of migrants must secure an appointment at an official port of entry, which are difficult to obtain, or else they will be subject to expedited removal if they cannot prove that they sought legal protection in another country along the way.

Complete article here: We Know What Doesn’t Work at the Border. Here’s a Better Solution.

[pulmonarymd]

Fixing this requires an approach that starts with wanting to fix it. The will to fix it does not exist in the Republican party. As DJ has pointed out, finding workers is difficult with an unemployment rate of 3%. In addition, migrants do jobs(picking crops) that Americans won't do. We need a guest worker program. That would take much of the pressure at the border. Coupled with a crackdown on employers who hire people without papers should make the problem less acute. But it drives conservative anger and fits the current Republican party narrative, so they do not want to compromise.

[Spellbound454]

Aug 10, 2023 9:55:53 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 10, 2023 3:32:35 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

extreme lefty lawyers thwarting any attempt to get it under control.

huh?  that sounds totally untrue and kinda Trumpy.  care to explain it?

Sure, its a pejorative but non-the-less true. Not Trumpy since we have nothing to do with Trump but a feeling that is spreading right across Europe, and Europe is clamping down. People have had enough, we can't accommodate the influx and we in the UK have just reached the 100,000 mark since 2018.
www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/new-arrivals-appear-to-take-channel-crossings-to-more-than-100000-since-2018/ar-AA1f4JH4

We have declared that anyone who has entered the country illegally ... ie on a boat, will not be allowed to apply for asylum and will be processed in a third country (Rwanda ...more of a deterrent than anything else)
It has gone from court to court and will go to the supreme court soon.... thwarted by people with their own (lefty)agenda.
We are also housing some people on a barge until processing... but no they want 4 and 5 star hotels.
That's gone to court several times.

Not my commentary but the opinion of the government.www.ft.com/content/246232b7-2f83-4698-a2bd-368e396913fe

[djAdvocate]

Aug 10, 2023 11:20:22 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Aug 10, 2023 9:55:53 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

huh?  that sounds totally untrue and kinda Trumpy.  care to explain it?

Sure, its a pejorative but non-the-less true. Not Trumpy since we have nothing to do with Trump

you can sound like Trump without having anything to do with him.  just fyi.

but a feeling that is spreading right across Europe, and Europe is clamping down. People have had enough, we can't accommodate the influx and we in the UK have just reached the 100,000 mark since 2018.
www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/new-arrivals-appear-to-take-channel-crossings-to-more-than-100000-since-2018/ar-AA1f4JH4

We have declared that anyone who has entered the country illegally ... ie on a boat, will not be allowed to apply for asylum and will be processed in a third country (Rwanda ...more of a deterrent than anything else)
It has gone from court to court and will go to the supreme court soon.... thwarted by people with their own (lefty)agenda.
We are also housing some people on a barge until processing... but no they want 4 and 5 star hotels.
That's gone to court several times.

Not my commentary but the opinion of the government.www.ft.com/content/246232b7-2f83-4698-a2bd-368e396913fe

what "lefty agenda"?  you still didn't answer the question.

[djAdvocate]

i am not playing stupid, here, Spell.
i can't understand what agenda you are talking about.

if lawyers are just doing what they do, it is neither RIGHT nor LEFT.

[swamp]

Aug 10, 2023 9:57:17 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 10, 2023 9:53:21 GMT -5 Tiny said:

For Rip:

Mexico is one of our biggest trading partners (China is no longer our biggest...).

I thought trump's "Mexico will pay for the wall" was a euphemism for America putting pressure on our biggest trading partner to better police (spend it's own money - not ours)  it's own borders and population to keep them from crossing thru Mexico OR providing betting living conditions for their own people (so they didn't need to to flee to America for a better life.)

But, I was wrong and trump and it seems Republicans want to just literally build a wall (which seems terribly inefficient - why not just lay down land mines? - probably would cost less over time and would probably be a good solution for where American towns/cities/houses are close to the actual border - no view ruined by an ugly "wall".  <-- seems like a Republican thing to do. 

bear traps.  no, wait.....laser drones!

sharks with laser beams 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Aug 10, 2023 9:57:17 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 10, 2023 9:53:21 GMT -5 Tiny said:

For Rip:

Mexico is one of our biggest trading partners (China is no longer our biggest...).

I thought trump's "Mexico will pay for the wall" was a euphemism for America putting pressure on our biggest trading partner to better police (spend it's own money - not ours)  it's own borders and population to keep them from crossing thru Mexico OR providing betting living conditions for their own people (so they didn't need to to flee to America for a better life.)

But, I was wrong and trump and it seems Republicans want to just literally build a wall (which seems terribly inefficient - why not just lay down land mines? - probably would cost less over time and would probably be a good solution for where American towns/cities/houses are close to the actual border - no view ruined by an ugly "wall".  <-- seems like a Republican thing to do. 

bear traps.  no, wait.....laser drones!

Can't Jews have a monopoly on lasers from space.

[thyme4change]

Aug 10, 2023 9:53:21 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Shouldn't we as a capitalistic country be able to figure out how to profit from getting Mexico to step up it's own immigration issues?

I have been wondering if Trump kinda screwed the Republicans by pushing the immigrant issue. Businesses used to use the cheap labor freely and pressure politicians to encourage migration. Regan gave amnesty. George Bush (#1) expanded the program. W wanted programs that encouraged seasonal workers. And as late as 2013 75% of Republicans supported workers programs. There was a growing base of people who wanted to get rid of all brown people - they identified as the tea party. Trump grabbed them and riled them up. He made their fears mainstream. Now, businesses are struggling to find workers and the GOP can’t undo the loud calls to further hamper immigration.

At least that is how I see it.

[hurley1980]

Aug 10, 2023 3:32:35 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

"Asylum seekers" would imply that people want to be granted asylum from war and oppression.

If they are hispanic, they are economic migrants who want citizenship..... there is no War to give them asylum from.

Taking the moral high ground is where we went wrong.
We are now in a situation which is completely unsustainable, with  extreme lefty lawyers thwarting any attempt to get it under control.

Are you kidding me?  Central and South America are a mess!  Civil and cartel wars are still wars. 

[Spellbound454]

 what "lefty agenda"? you still didn't answer the question.

Its for unmitigated immigration.

They'd have us all believe that these people are fleeing War torn Countries (and we do take families from Syria and Ukraine through legal routes)
but many are economic migrants from Albania, Somalia, Pakistan, Sudan, North Africa.
They are almost all opportunist young males between 18 and 35.... wanting a better life. 

There is even a bit of an industry coaching the applicants on what to say.
www.thesun.co.uk/news/23383842/lawyers-illegal-migrants-bogus-claims-life-jail-crackdown/

Its costing us 6m a day to house migrants in Hotels all over the Country.

and any attempt to control it, is met with fierce opposition for political reasons

Its not what the population wants.

[Spellbound454]

 Civil and cartel wars are still wars.

Have you seen what is going on in Ukraine and Syria?

A "War" is your house is rubble, you are terrified of the missiles and you cant get enough to eat whilst your homeland burns.

We take people from these places. So you you ... we all do.

[Opti]

Aug 10, 2023 12:12:23 GMT -5 swamp said:

Aug 10, 2023 9:57:17 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

bear traps.  no, wait.....laser drones!

sharks with laser beams 

[Opti]

A country does not need to be at war for certain individuals to fear for their lives. 

[djAdvocate]

Aug 10, 2023 12:48:48 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Aug 10, 2023 9:53:21 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Shouldn't we as a capitalistic country be able to figure out how to profit from getting Mexico to step up it's own immigration issues?

I have been wondering if Trump kinda screwed the Republicans by pushing the immigrant issue. Businesses used to use the cheap labor freely and pressure politicians to encourage migration. Regan gave amnesty. George Bush (#1) expanded the program. W wanted programs that encouraged seasonal workers. And as late as 2013 75% of Republicans supported workers programs. There was a growing base of people who wanted to get rid of all brown people - they identified as the tea party. Trump grabbed them and riled them up. He made their fears mainstream. Now, businesses are struggling to find workers and the GOP can’t undo the loud calls to further hamper immigration.

At least that is how I see it.

Shogun Japan.  no sensible capitalist would EVER go for that.
but Trump is not a sensible capitalist.  he is a career grifter.
so long as there are 75M suckers to leech off of, he has it made.
and that is all that matters to him.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 10, 2023 13:44:29 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 what "lefty agenda"? you still didn't answer the question.

Its for unmitigated immigration.

They'd have us all believe that these people are fleeing War torn Countries (and we do take families from Syria and Ukraine through legal routes)
but many are economic migrants from Albania, Somalia, Pakistan, Sudan, North Africa.
They are almost all opportunist young males between 18 and 35.... wanting a better life. 

There is even a bit of an industry coaching the applicants on what to say.
www.thesun.co.uk/news/23383842/lawyers-illegal-migrants-bogus-claims-life-jail-crackdown/

Its costing us 6m a day to house migrants in Hotels all over the Country.

and any attempt to control it, is met with fierce opposition for political reasons

Its not what the population wants.

ok, so how does unmitigated immigration benefit them?

sorry again.  i hope i am not annoying you.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 10, 2023 20:02:11 GMT -5 Opti said:

A country does not need to be at war for certain individuals to fear for their lives. 

nor, again, is WAR required for a refugee program.

the border situation in Turkiye is a transnational crisis that has created refugees.  there is no war there, but there is certainly enough suffering to merit that status.

[Tiny]

Ok. how about this: We are one of Mexico's top trading partners:
www.worldstopexports.com/mexicos-top-import-partners/

United States: US$452.6 billion (78.3% of Mexico’s total exports)


trump was all about making China kneel before his "art of the deal" skills - why aren't Republican's all about making Mexico do a better job of policing their borders and deal with the refugees crossing their country to get to America? Why aren't there more conditions on those trade deals we do with Mexico?

Looks to me like when Mexico says Jump, American businesses enthusiastically shout "How High!".

OK, maybe Mexico is one of those foreign countries who would like to help trump get back into office - it just looks the other way letting people cross their country, helping them to get to our border... and zowie! fuel for the "illegal aliens are taking over America and costing Americans millions of dollars! - vote Republican! We will build a wall!!!"

[ripvanwinkle]

Aug 10, 2023 7:20:19 GMT -5 swamp said:

Aug 9, 2023 23:26:52 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

I guess any person could read between the lines and read "Illegal" into the governors statement but the Democrat governor was just being politically correct for her voters by saying migrants. 

How many of these people in her state presented legal documents issued by the US to legally allow them to enter the US at the border in the first place? I say if they don't already have a papers or a visa issued by the US govt prior to entering the US in my book they are illegal.

So all the Canadians who come over to shop at Walmart for the afternoon are here illegally?  They dont need a visa or “papers” from the US government to enter the U.S.  

have you ever actually crossed an international border?   You are really quite ignorant of how it works.  

I have traveled to many foreign countries. Okinawa Japan, Philippines, S. Korea, Mexico, and many times to British Columbia. Each time I was asked to show my ID and or passport. At the Blaine Port of Entry, they stop my car and ask questions as to my visit. Business or pleasure. I show my ID and they let me go on. Canadians coming south to the US thru the POE get the same check. The line of cars can be quite long for them sometimes.

[Tiny]

so, like between America and Canada there are only a 100 or so check points? And no other roads that cross the border

Aren't there towns on the border (you know where one side of main street is Canada and the other side the USA)? Or areas where houses/subdivisions run along the border?


There are towns like that along the border with Mexico - it's not like North Korea and South Korea with a zone of nothing (maybe land mines....) and no roads or people living near or on the border.

[ripvanwinkle]

Aug 10, 2023 13:44:29 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 what "lefty agenda"? you still didn't answer the question.

Its for unmitigated immigration.

They'd have us all believe that these people are fleeing War torn Countries (and we do take families from Syria and Ukraine through legal routes)
but many are economic migrants from Albania, Somalia, Pakistan, Sudan, North Africa.
They are almost all opportunist young males between 18 and 35.... wanting a better life. 

There is even a bit of an industry coaching the applicants on what to say.
www.thesun.co.uk/news/23383842/lawyers-illegal-migrants-bogus-claims-life-jail-crackdown/

Its costing us 6m a day to house migrants in Hotels all over the Country.

and any attempt to control it, is met with fierce opposition for political reasons

Its not what the population wants.

Thank you.  Another person who somewhat believes what I think on this. Not clamping down on mass immigration is going to be black hole at which endless money will be poured into. Kind of like the millions we send to Ukraine. It seems like everyone else on this board is so concerned about giving the people coming in a pass on the fact they entered ILLEGALLY with no background check like they would if they applied in their own country.

The movie Red Dawn comes to mind when I see the videos of the people massing at the border.

[Opti]

Aug 10, 2023 23:55:50 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Aug 10, 2023 13:44:29 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Its for unmitigated immigration.

They'd have us all believe that these people are fleeing War torn Countries (and we do take families from Syria and Ukraine through legal routes)
but many are economic migrants from Albania, Somalia, Pakistan, Sudan, North Africa.
They are almost all opportunist young males between 18 and 35.... wanting a better life. 

There is even a bit of an industry coaching the applicants on what to say.
www.thesun.co.uk/news/23383842/lawyers-illegal-migrants-bogus-claims-life-jail-crackdown/

Its costing us 6m a day to house migrants in Hotels all over the Country.

and any attempt to control it, is met with fierce opposition for political reasons

Its not what the population wants.

Thank you.  Another person who somewhat believes what I think on this. Not clamping down on mass immigration is going to be black hole at which endless money will be poured into. Kind of like the millions we send to Ukraine. It seems like everyone else on this board is so concerned about giving the people coming in a pass on the fact they entered ILLEGALLY with no background check like they would if they applied in their own country.

The movie Red Dawn comes to mind when I see the videos of the people massing at the border.

It is legal to present yourself for the first time at the border and ask for asylum. I was going to post from a US website on that, but it wasn't that easy to read or concise, so I did not. As DJ pointed out, they get processed later and aren't always successful in staying here.

[Spellbound454]

Aug 10, 2023 20:29:13 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Aug 10, 2023 20:02:11 GMT -5 Opti said:

A country does not need to be at war for certain individuals to fear for their lives. 

nor, again, is WAR required for a refugee program.

the border situation in Turkiye is a transnational crisis that has created refugees.  there is no war there, but there is certainly enough suffering to merit that status.

They wouldn't be suffering and drowning if they had stayed in their own, perfectly safe Countries.

Fancying another life in a richer Country is not a good enough reason to expect the European tax payer to fund you.


We can't afford the £6 million a day to put them up in hotels, we don't have the infrastructure ie health care, housing, jobs.

We can't cope with the influx of huge amounts of young males, who are not used to a western lifestyle, wandering about in our Towns and Villages.

There is crime, of course there is...... Some of them are already in organised crime gangs, others are religious extremists. We don't even know who many are because they are told to throw away their documents by the smugglers (and cook up a story about their own oppression to ensure visas)

Meanwhile, there is a plethora of ridiculous middle-class do-gooders, flagellating and begging forgiveness... and inviting the whole bloody World in.

The Party that can sort this out, will be the Party who wins the next general election. The majority want this to be controlled and its not being done.

No "going to be" about it rip. Already here.

[Opti]

I understand wanting not too many immigrants, but not all the countries you listed earlier are "perfectly safe"/


www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/six-people-killed-in-somalia-bus-explosion/ar-AA1f17aw


At least six people have been killed in an explosion targeting a passenger bus outside Somalia's capital, Mogadishu.

The bus was travelling from the port city of Marka to Qoryooley, a district further south in the region.



No group has yet come forward to admit responsibility for the attack.



Governor Mohamed Ibrahim stated that a terrorist group had carried out the explosion - but did not disclose the name of the suspected group.

In the past, al-Shabab - also known as 'The Youth' - has claimed responsibility for similar attacks.

The group has been fighting since 2006 to topple Somalia's central government and implement its own governance, based on a strict interpretation of Islamic Sharia law.

[Spellbound454]

If they are running from Al Shabab they may have grounds to be let in and could apply in that country and put on a plane

but we need to check in case they are from Al Shabab.... wanting to cause trouble in this country.
(This is the lesson Europe has learned with their numerous terrorist attacks.)

We would take or support families, ie women and children instead of just leaving them there whilst only the men come.
We do have legal routes where we can decide how and where people can be accommodated.

Some of these "men" have claimed to be underage for preferential treatment and put in to British Schools..... until some child piped up with "why is there a 30 year old man in my maths class"
Honestly you couldn't make it up, no cure for stupid.

This is a massive industry of criminal activity for which the smugglers are making thousands per person.

and we have a big and thriving underground economy in which they can just disappear.

[andi9899]

Aug 11, 2023 1:55:07 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Aug 10, 2023 20:29:13 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

nor, again, is WAR required for a refugee program.

the border situation in Turkiye is a transnational crisis that has created refugees.  there is no war there, but there is certainly enough suffering to merit that status.

They wouldn't be suffering and drowning if they had stayed in their own, perfectly safe Countries.

Fancying another life in a richer Country is not a good enough reason to expect the European tax payer to fund you.


We can't afford the £6 million a day to put them up in hotels, we don't have the infrastructure ie health care, housing, jobs.

We can't cope with the influx of huge amounts of young males, who are not used to a western lifestyle, wandering about in our Towns and Villages.

There is crime, of course there is...... Some of them are already in organised crime gangs, others are religious extremists. We don't even know who many are because they are told to throw away their documents by the smugglers (and cook up a story about their own oppression to ensure visas)

Meanwhile, there is a plethora of ridiculous middle-class do-gooders, flagellating and begging forgiveness... and inviting the whole bloody World in.

The Party that can sort this out, will be the Party who wins the next general election. The majority want this to be controlled and its not being done.

No "going to be" about it rip. Already here.

I'm guessing you've never been to Mexico. Outside of the tourist places, it's not "perfectly safe" there. Hell, the tourist spots aren't all that safe. Also, don't you live in the UK? Sit down and let grown folks talk. It has nothing to do with you. You just want to throw around your racist viewpoints.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 10, 2023 21:14:31 GMT -5 ripvanwinkle said:

Aug 10, 2023 7:20:19 GMT -5 swamp said:

So all the Canadians who come over to shop at Walmart for the afternoon are here illegally?  They dont need a visa or “papers” from the US government to enter the U.S.  

have you ever actually crossed an international border?   You are really quite ignorant of how it works.  

I have traveled to many foreign countries. Okinawa Japan, Philippines, S. Korea, Mexico, and many times to British Columbia. Each time I was asked to show my ID and or passport. At the Blaine Port of Entry, they stop my car and ask questions as to my visit. Business or pleasure. I show my ID and they let me go on. Canadians coming south to the US thru the POE get the same check. The line of cars can be quite long for them sometimes.

you weren't seeking asylum, and most "illegals" show their papers.

[djAdvocate]

Aug 11, 2023 1:55:07 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Aug 10, 2023 20:29:13 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

nor, again, is WAR required for a refugee program.

the border situation in Turkiye is a transnational crisis that has created refugees.  there is no war there, but there is certainly enough suffering to merit that status.

They wouldn't be suffering and drowning if they had stayed in their own, perfectly safe Countries.

huh?  so massive droughts and earthquakes are now perfectly safe?
your posts are confusing me a lot, Spell.

also: how does the left benefit from "illegal" migration?

[Spellbound454]

I'm guessing you've never been to Mexico. Outside of the tourist places, it's not "perfectly safe" there. Hell, the tourist spots aren't all that safe. Also, don't you live in the UK? Sit down and let grown folks talk. It has nothing to do with you. You just want to throw around your racist viewpoints.

So throw open your borders and let everybody stream in ...... woo hoo

Everywhere.......... Africa, Russia, S America, China..... unchallenged and give them everything on a plate ...... courtesy of the American tax payer.

Go for it.....

and any mitigation is racist.

[andi9899]

Aug 11, 2023 11:14:18 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I'm guessing you've never been to Mexico. Outside of the tourist places, it's not "perfectly safe" there. Hell, the tourist spots aren't all that safe. Also, don't you live in the UK? Sit down and let grown folks talk. It has nothing to do with you. You just want to throw around your racist viewpoints.

So throw open your borders and let everybody stream in ...... woo hoo

Everywhere.......... Africa, Russia, S America, China..... unchallenged and give them everything on a plate ...... courtesy of the American tax payer.

Go for it.....

and any mitigation is racist.

Nobody ever said open borders. If you have proof someone did, please provide it. We have border patrol and they are doing the same job they were doing as they were under Trump. Always have, always will. Also, you're not an American taxpayer, so you're opinion doesn't matter. Finally, the fact that you're so worried about all the brown people makes you a racist. You specifically singled out Hispanic people with your bigotry.