chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 4, 2024 15:05:06 GMT -5
Okay, so I am not in favor of birthright citizenship, and do not believe it should be the law of the land. The key for me is of course the phrase, "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof...." There was a narrow exception carved out for foreign diplomats and agents not subject to U.S. laws and for Indians on reservations subject to treaty rather than law. This is okay, but not sufficient. It should be remembered first that there was originally no such concept as an illegal alien. In fact, there was no restriction on immigration at all and one of the charges in the case for independence (if I remember correctly) was that the King was restricting people from emigrating to America. We WANTED to add people, and as many as we could. That is not the case today, and has not been in my lifetime. We have long had an immigration system and process to both limit the number of persons entering the country and control who they are and where they come from. We simply cannot afford to bring in as many as wish to come, and there is nothing inherently wrong with that. I don't pretend to know what the numbers should be, but the fact remains that there is a system in place and it is a violation of law to avoid that process. At any rate, there is no reason to think that because illegal aliens were not specifically named earlier that they should automatically be allowed to benefit. The concept did not exist. My primary objection to jus soli is to the idea that the children of illegal immigrants should be U.S. citizens simply because they were born on U.S. soil. This flies in the face of logic. By entering and remaining in the country illegally, the parents never subjected themselves to the jurisdiction of the United States. If they had, they would have been deported. Their entry into the country was a violation of law, and their mere existence in this country is a continuing violation of law. One of the basic tenets of jurisprudence is that one should not be allowed to profit from the committing of an illegal act. That is the entire raison d'etre for the existence of Son of Sam laws. Those were created to prevent David Berkowitz from potentially profiting by selling his story. Similarly, American citizenship is a huge benefit to someone from another country. Many people try for decades even after arriving and remaining here legally, working and supporting this country. Logic and justice dictate that nobody should be allowed to receive citizenship as the "profit" from an illegal act. I have far less of an issue (and can indeed see both sides) when referring to the children of those here legally. They subjected themselves to the process, and the law, and have supposedly done everything asked of them to earn their place here. I may prefer that citizenship follow the mother*, but would likely not argue for or against either side. That is certainly not the case for those in the country illegally, and that status alone is sufficient for me to reject the idea. * To clarify, I would suggest that the children of non-citizens in the country legally should be allowed legal residency as their parents have, but citizenship should not be conferred simply by virtue of being born here. commenting as a placeholder. I want to read this long post and comment later.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 4, 2024 15:06:54 GMT -5
I feel this is a super impressive thing to teach your kids- "She taught Maya and me a lesson ... she taught us to never complain about injustice, but do something about it," the vice president said.and how are you embodying this lesson, since you found it important enough to share here?
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Sept 4, 2024 15:08:04 GMT -5
She is a Republican. I said many many times before I do not want any Democrats in office. I never used to be like this but with this Harris coup I have become more and more upset. I didn't want Trump to run and I said I would not vote for him and I won't. He is still better than Harris she has done nothing in the Senate nothing as VP except to follow a mindless pos around wiping his ass Why do you think it was a coup? We have VPs for a reason. They step in when the president is incapacitated, sometimes temporarily (like when he’s undergoing surgery) and sometimes permanently (like when he’s assassinated). When Biden participated in the debate it was clear he was having issues- pretty much everyone admitted that. So the VP stepped in. True, no one did that during an election cycle before but then we never had such an old candidate before. Most importantly, Biden has appeared in public with Harris advocating for her campaign. I don’t think he would do that if this was a coup. Trump keeps calling it a coup because he wants to run against Biden, not Harris, but we have to think of the good of the country, not just what Trump wants. I'm about 75% certain that Trump will beat Harris. Under Biden it was 100%.. I call it a coup because money was already spent against Biden. Good of the country I wouldn't be a democrat
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 4, 2024 15:08:33 GMT -5
How about we do away with citizenship based on any type of birthright and require everyone to earn it? given the lack of civics education and the evidence of that shown by the average MAGA voter, I'm all for it in the short run. lol.... I don't think that's what you meant, though
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Sept 4, 2024 15:14:11 GMT -5
In addition, if the members of the Democratic party disagree with this decision, they have a mechanism to express it. They can stay home, not vote for president and only in down ballot races, or vote the the other party's candidate. It isn't the Democrats fault that Republicans have nominated the most horrific candidate in the history of our nation. Unlike the results of a real coup, where there is no mechanism to express your opinion but protest. Given the fact that Democratic voters seem to be happy with the result, calling it a coup is just pain idiotic. It's a coup because everyone was banking on being able to tout Trump as being a competent "young" macho man candidate compared to Biden. Against Harris it's apparent for all but the most deluded to see that in reality he's your demented conspiracy driven Uncle that your parents force you to invite to Thanksgiving every year. The only explanation is they did it on purpose so Trump wouldn't be able to ride into the oval office on a cloud of popular votes. It's a coup because now he may actually have to compete. He can't run on old age, he can't trot out a list of women her husband has sexually harassed. He's pissing people off this time calling her race and citizenship into question so it's not working like it did with Obama. He may actually have to ... gasp! Have a platform! That's not fair! He really don't have to have one against Harris. The republicans are going to keep pushing she done nothing while in the Senate done nothing as a VP eventually it will get real nasty around the end of October.
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dondubble
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Post by dondubble on Sept 4, 2024 15:17:36 GMT -5
Why do you think it was a coup? We have VPs for a reason. They step in when the president is incapacitated, sometimes temporarily (like when he’s undergoing surgery) and sometimes permanently (like when he’s assassinated). When Biden participated in the debate it was clear he was having issues- pretty much everyone admitted that. So the VP stepped in. True, no one did that during an election cycle before but then we never had such an old candidate before. Most importantly, Biden has appeared in public with Harris advocating for her campaign. I don’t think he would do that if this was a coup. Trump keeps calling it a coup because he wants to run against Biden, not Harris, but we have to think of the good of the country, not just what Trump wants. I'm about 75% certain that Trump will beat Harris. Under Biden it was 100%.. I call it a coup because money was already spent against Biden. Good of the country I wouldn't be a democrat So you are calling it a coup because your candidate you won’t vote for spent money against Biden? What planet is that opinion from? PS: there was no coup and last time I checked Biden was still POTUS.
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Post by minnesotapaintlady on Sept 4, 2024 15:28:11 GMT -5
It's a coup because everyone was banking on being able to tout Trump as being a competent "young" macho man candidate compared to Biden. Against Harris it's apparent for all but the most deluded to see that in reality he's your demented conspiracy driven Uncle that your parents force you to invite to Thanksgiving every year. The only explanation is they did it on purpose so Trump wouldn't be able to ride into the oval office on a cloud of popular votes. It's a coup because now he may actually have to compete. He can't run on old age, he can't trot out a list of women her husband has sexually harassed. He's pissing people off this time calling her race and citizenship into question so it's not working like it did with Obama. He may actually have to ... gasp! Have a platform! That's not fair! He really don't have to have one against Harris. The republicans are going to keep pushing she done nothing while in the Senate done nothing as a VP eventually it will get real nasty around the end of October. What does any VP do? Besides a back-up to the President if something happens to him/her and presiding over the senate? What did Pence do?
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 4, 2024 15:36:32 GMT -5
...And will Pence vote for trump come November? Remember-trump wanted Pence hanged on J-6.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2024 15:47:47 GMT -5
i can make a logical case for armed robbery. logic isn't the only thing that matters. but i think we all know that. A valid argument perhaps, but I would be hard-pressed to come up with a sound argument for armed robbery. it would be a special case. but i guarantee i can make it logically sound.
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dondubble
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Post by dondubble on Sept 4, 2024 15:55:38 GMT -5
He really don't have to have one against Harris. The republicans are going to keep pushing she done nothing while in the Senate done nothing as a VP eventually it will get real nasty around the end of October. What does any VP do? Besides a back-up to the President if something happens to him/her and presiding over the senate? What did Pence do? What had Trump accomplished as an elected official prior to 2016? And I guess even repo-con women will denigrate Harris even though she had successful accomplishments as a prosecutor and AG of a very large state. Of course she IS Black.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Sept 4, 2024 16:07:25 GMT -5
A valid argument perhaps, but I would be hard-pressed to come up with a sound argument for armed robbery. it would be a special case. but i guarantee i can make it logically sound. Not to derail the thread, but I would almost like to see that. I would stipulate, though, that in order to qualify: 1. The act must be accurately described as robbery, and 2. The premises must be objectively true and not merely ethically justifiable
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Sept 4, 2024 16:07:58 GMT -5
Is birthright the problem we should be working? Will the downfall of America really be that people are born here? I’m guessing that the anti-immigrant people would be all over - but even if a change was made, out much bigger problems of citizens united and the wealth gap would still be there to hurt us.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 4, 2024 16:12:44 GMT -5
US seizes Russian websites used in bid to influence 2024 electionThe Biden administration on Wednesday condemned Russian efforts to influence the 2024 U.S. election as the Justice Department announced it seized 32 web domains the country has used for its covert campaigns. The action also targeted two employees of RT, formerly known as Russia Today, a Russian state media outlet with content available in English, charging the duo with violating the Foreign Agents Registration Act. Collectively, the two actions are some of the strongest moves taken under the Biden White House to confront accelerating efforts by the Russian government the intelligence community has deemed “the predominant threat to U.S. elections.” Deemed “Doppelganger,” the Russian effort employed a mix of creating sites with slightly different web addresses that mimic U.S. news outlets, including one appearing to be The Washington Post, and are plastered with pro-Russian narratives. It also created other media brands to funnel Russian content. “As of noon today, we’ve seized those sites, rendered them inoperable, and made clear to the world what they are: Russian attempts to interfere in our elections and influence our society,” FBI Director Christopher Wray said as Justice Department officials convened an Election Threats Task Force meeting. “When we learn that adversaries overseas are trying to hide who they are and where their propaganda is coming from as part of campaigns to deliberately sow discord, we’re going to continue to do everything we can to expose their hidden hand and disrupt their efforts,” Wray added. Attorney General Merrick Garland said Monday that “President Vladimir Putin’s inner circle” directed the influence campaign with the broader goals of drumming up support for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and “securing Russia’s preferred outcome in the election.” Rest of article here: US seizes Russian websites used in bid to influence 2024 election
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moon/Laura
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Post by moon/Laura on Sept 4, 2024 16:15:31 GMT -5
Why do you think it was a coup? We have VPs for a reason. They step in when the president is incapacitated, sometimes temporarily (like when he’s undergoing surgery) and sometimes permanently (like when he’s assassinated). When Biden participated in the debate it was clear he was having issues- pretty much everyone admitted that. So the VP stepped in. True, no one did that during an election cycle before but then we never had such an old candidate before. Most importantly, Biden has appeared in public with Harris advocating for her campaign. I don’t think he would do that if this was a coup. Trump keeps calling it a coup because he wants to run against Biden, not Harris, but we have to think of the good of the country, not just what Trump wants. I'm about 75% certain that Trump will beat Harris. Under Biden it was 100%.. I call it a coup because money was already spent against Biden. Good of the country I wouldn't be a democrat You're undeniably delulu.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 4, 2024 16:16:24 GMT -5
Of course. US accuses Russia of using state media to spread disinformation before the November election
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Biden administration announced wide-ranging actions Wednesday meant to call out Russian influence in the upcoming U.S. presidential election, unsealing criminal charges against two employees of a Russian state-run media company and seizing websites used by the Kremlin to spread disinformation. The measures, which in addition to indictments also included sanctions and visa restrictions., represented a U.S. government effort just weeks before the November election to disrupt a persistent threat from Russia that American officials have long warned has the potential to sow discord and create confusion among voters. Washington has said that Moscow, which intelligence officials have said has a preference for Republican Donald Trump, remains the primary threat to elections even as the FBI continues to investigate a hack by Iran this year that targeted the presidential campaigns of both political parties. “The Justice Department’s message is clear: We will have no tolerance for attempts by authoritarian regimes to exploit our democratic systems of government,” Attorney General Merrick Garland said. Rest of article here: US accuses Russia of using state media to spread disinformation before the November election
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 4, 2024 16:31:07 GMT -5
They were here three to four years before she was born. Not my image of an "anchor" baby as their intention to be here was not based on having kids but following their various paths of work. It may not be your image, but it's still an image many do hold. hell, *I've* been called an anchor baby bc father still carries a green card after moving here in the early 60s. True. Sorry for your experience, but I've never called you that nor do I intend to start.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 4, 2024 16:41:05 GMT -5
I feel this is a super impressive thing to teach your kids- "She taught Maya and me a lesson ... she taught us to never complain about injustice, but do something about it," the vice president said.and how are you embodying this lesson, since you found it important enough to share here? I decided to share it because I liked it shaped her upbringing. My parents came from farms. I did not get that kind of training. It was more keep your head down, get good grades and by magic things were supposed to work out. They don't. Reality is, her mom and dad did complain about injustice. That's why people march, organize, etc. So, it is not a literal statement, nor do I plan to apply it to my life the ways you apparently have feels about it. It is a good reminder to do something about those areas you are up to fighting for. Sometimes however there is little energy to fight real world stuff so many of us, myself included become keyboard warriors instead of moving some issues forward. And getting older, I am just going to complain more when people pick on me unfairly.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 4, 2024 16:42:36 GMT -5
and how are you embodying this lesson, since you found it important enough to share here? I decided to share it because I liked it shaped her upbringing. My parents came from farms. I did not get that kind of training. It was more keep your head down, get good grades and by magic things were supposed to work out. They don't. Reality is, her mom and dad did complain about injustice. That's why people march, organize, etc. So, it is not a literal statement, nor do I plan to apply it to my life the ways you apparently have feels about it. It is a good reminder to do something about those areas you are up to fighting for. Sometimes however there is little energy to fight real world stuff so many of us, myself included become keyboard warriors instead of moving some issues forward. And getting older, I am just going to complain more when people pick on me unfairly. this word does not mean what you think it means.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 4, 2024 16:53:37 GMT -5
Why do you think it was a coup? We have VPs for a reason. They step in when the president is incapacitated, sometimes temporarily (like when he’s undergoing surgery) and sometimes permanently (like when he’s assassinated). When Biden participated in the debate it was clear he was having issues- pretty much everyone admitted that. So the VP stepped in. True, no one did that during an election cycle before but then we never had such an old candidate before. Most importantly, Biden has appeared in public with Harris advocating for her campaign. I don’t think he would do that if this was a coup. Trump keeps calling it a coup because he wants to run against Biden, not Harris, but we have to think of the good of the country, not just what Trump wants. I'm about 75% certain that Trump will beat Harris. Under Biden it was 100%.. I call it a coup because money was already spent against Biden. Good of the country I wouldn't be a democrat Man, I could use the money a bet against those odds would bring. So because Trump spent money running against Biden/Harris and it is now Harris/Walz you want to join Trump fantasyland and call it a coup? I think it serves him right to make all these plans and then have it blow up in his face. He was so successful at painting Biden as old he got a younger person to run against. And not even someone he knew nothing about. The VP. If he did no research on her prior to her winning the nomination, that's a him problem isn't it?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Sept 4, 2024 16:55:24 GMT -5
I decided to share it because I liked it shaped her upbringing. My parents came from farms. I did not get that kind of training. It was more keep your head down, get good grades and by magic things were supposed to work out. They don't. Reality is, her mom and dad did complain about injustice. That's why people march, organize, etc. So, it is not a literal statement, nor do I plan to apply it to my life the ways you apparently have feels about it. It is a good reminder to do something about those areas you are up to fighting for. Sometimes however there is little energy to fight real world stuff so many of us, myself included become keyboard warriors instead of moving some issues forward. And getting older, I am just going to complain more when people pick on me unfairly. this word does not mean what you think it means. Stop assuming please. You do not know what I am talking about so stop pretending you do. My life is bigger than this board TYVM. Jeez. Move on. Aren't moderators supposed hold themselves to a higher more neutral standard than us regular posters?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2024 16:58:15 GMT -5
Why do you think it was a coup? We have VPs for a reason. They step in when the president is incapacitated, sometimes temporarily (like when he’s undergoing surgery) and sometimes permanently (like when he’s assassinated). When Biden participated in the debate it was clear he was having issues- pretty much everyone admitted that. So the VP stepped in. True, no one did that during an election cycle before but then we never had such an old candidate before. Most importantly, Biden has appeared in public with Harris advocating for her campaign. I don’t think he would do that if this was a coup. Trump keeps calling it a coup because he wants to run against Biden, not Harris, but we have to think of the good of the country, not just what Trump wants. I'm about 75% certain that Trump will beat Harris. Under Biden it was 100%.. I call it a coup because money was already spent against Biden. Good of the country I wouldn't be a democrat ah. so you are quoting Trump. got it. coup is not the right word. he could call it a sham, with some justification. he could call it "bait and switch" with a LOT of justification. did it occur to you that he is trying to appropriate this term to make his coup seem less coupy?
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scgal
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Post by scgal on Sept 4, 2024 16:59:55 GMT -5
What does any VP do? Besides a back-up to the President if something happens to him/her and presiding over the senate? What did Pence do? What had Trump accomplished as an elected official prior to 2016? And I guess even repo-con women will denigrate Harris even though she had successful accomplishments as a prosecutor and AG of a very large state. Of course she IS Black. She is a total failure. Trumps accomplishments just Google it
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2024 17:11:22 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 4, 2024 17:18:41 GMT -5
What had Trump accomplished as an elected official prior to 2016? And I guess even repo-con women will denigrate Harris even though she had successful accomplishments as a prosecutor and AG of a very large state. Of course she IS Black. She is a total failure. Trumps accomplishments just Google it Let: see what Trump accomplished: Mexico handed over all the money to pay for a wall between Mexico and the U.S. wall built. The Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, was successfully replaced by Trumpcare. Convicted of /sexual abuse/rape and slander in a civil trial. Trump's mission accomplished. Convicted on 34 felonies after trying to hide the hush money paid to Stormy Daniels to hid his sexual relation with her from the American voter prior to the 2016 election. trump's mission accomplished. Stole top secret documents after leaving the White House and hiding them from federal authorities multiple times at mar-a-lago. trump's mission accomplished. As president, tried to overturn a duly elected new president by telling his cult members to "stop the steal" by marching on the U.S. capitol building and do what ever it takes to stop the confirmation including hanging his vice president. Hundreds arrested and many convicted and in prison. trump's mission accomplished.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 4, 2024 17:28:29 GMT -5
this word does not mean what you think it means. Stop assuming please. You do not know what I am talking about so stop pretending you do. My life is bigger than this board TYVM. Jeez. Move on. Aren't moderators supposed hold themselves to a higher more neutral standard than us regular posters? I'm ASSuming nothing, except the definitions of the English language. you do not understand this word if you are using it IRT your current situations. as far as my role as amoderator, yes. I actually blocked you so that I could properly moderate without seeing the day to day bullshit you still post. this weekend while I was on vacation, someone quoted the unhinged rant that you put up, where I asked wtf is wrong with you. since then, I've unblocked you to deal with the aftermath of my response and your continued posting as if the world is out to get you. another hint - the world is NOT out to get you. you have choices, and you've made choices. I'd already stopped asking you about your choices before I blocked you, bc of how obnoxious your responses were to other posters. as I said in another thewad with the mod hat on, and I'll repeat here - you do not have the right to tell other posters to not respond to you. - chiver modI'll politely suggest that if this board stresses you out so much, that maybe there's a better forum for you to post in. because clearly, we aren't what you're looking for if you keep whining at us not to respond. 🤷♀️
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 4, 2024 17:31:05 GMT -5
Why do you think it was a coup? We have VPs for a reason. They step in when the president is incapacitated, sometimes temporarily (like when he’s undergoing surgery) and sometimes permanently (like when he’s assassinated). When Biden participated in the debate it was clear he was having issues- pretty much everyone admitted that. So the VP stepped in. True, no one did that during an election cycle before but then we never had such an old candidate before. Most importantly, Biden has appeared in public with Harris advocating for her campaign. I don’t think he would do that if this was a coup. Trump keeps calling it a coup because he wants to run against Biden, not Harris, but we have to think of the good of the country, not just what Trump wants. I'm about 75% certain that Trump will beat Harris. Under Biden it was 100%.. I call it a coup because money was already spent against Biden. Good of the country I wouldn't be a democrat Words don’t work like that. You can’t unilaterally change the definition.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Sept 4, 2024 17:34:16 GMT -5
What does any VP do? Besides a back-up to the President if something happens to him/her and presiding over the senate? What did Pence do? What had Trump accomplished as an elected official prior to 2016? And I guess even repo-con women will denigrate Harris even though she had successful accomplishments as a prosecutor and AG of a very large state. Of course she IS Black. But only recently
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2024 17:44:47 GMT -5
I'm about 75% certain that Trump will beat Harris. Under Biden it was 100%.. I call it a coup because money was already spent against Biden. Good of the country I wouldn't be a democrat Words don’t work like that. You can’t unilaterally change the definition. well, you can. you just can't expect anyone to accept it. moreover, it is really disrespectful of others to do this. part of conversing is using accepted meaning for terms. inverting or subverting the meaning of terms is something that propagandists, the inscrutable, and gaslighters do. it is intentionally obtuse.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Sept 4, 2024 17:47:23 GMT -5
What had Trump accomplished as an elected official prior to 2016? And I guess even repo-con women will denigrate Harris even though she had successful accomplishments as a prosecutor and AG of a very large state. Of course she IS Black. But only recently And trump has said he is prettier than Harris too.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Sept 4, 2024 17:57:07 GMT -5
What had Trump accomplished as an elected official prior to 2016? And I guess even repo-con women will denigrate Harris even though she had successful accomplishments as a prosecutor and AG of a very large state. Of course she IS Black. She is a total failure. Trumps accomplishments just Google it i couldn't resist. so i did what you asked. this is the first sentence from trumpwhitehousearchives: Before the Cxhxina Virus invaded our shores, we built the world’s most prosperous economy. this will be fun. first of all, it was not the Cxhxina Virus it is COVID19. it doesn't matter where it came from. the only thing that matters is how we responded. and we responded really badly. that is mostly on Trump, imo. secondly, the Obama economy in the three years prior to Trump was stronger than the Trump economy in his first three years prior to COVID19. but those are nothing compared to the economies of India and China prior to 1900: www.visualcapitalist.com/2000-years-economic-history-one-chart/as you can see, we were basically all tied for having 40-45% of global GDP for some very short period of time. our peak was 1950. since then, we have fallen to around 20% of global GDP (though we are still a global leader, to be clear- we just have more competitors), and we will probably remain here, while China AGAIN assumes its dominant role in the global economy. prosperous is also a funny term. does that mean GDP per capita? if so, we are 8th, and about half of the world's leaders. so, i find the opening statement to be a mixture of false and jingoistic. but because Trump, most Americans, and certainly MAGA, have no idea what the actual facts are, this kind of embarrassing nonsense can be posted unapologetically for all to see.
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