djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 29, 2022 19:14:14 GMT -5
no way. i would never have guessed that. did they remove the door? i am familiar with the seating capacity, range, cruse velocity, weight and balance, and all of the controls on a C182. i am a private pilot, bills. i have never thought of it as suitable to this use. thanks for teaching me something new. door swings up. You can see it in the picture. When I did static line and my one free fall jump, I sat in the door, grabbed the strut(?) under the wing, worked hands up and out until hanging, then let go. i actually can't see it. but i believe you. that is nuts. that plane weighs less than a ton, empty. having some 200 lb hillbilly bail out of it at cruise speed is suitably terrifying to me. i would never think of doing it.
|
|
dondub
Senior Associate
The meek shall indeed inherit the earth but only after the Visigoths are done with it.
Joined: Jan 16, 2014 19:31:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,110
Location: Seattle
Favorite Drink: Laphroig
|
Post by dondub on Sept 29, 2022 19:20:37 GMT -5
door swings up. You can see it in the picture. When I did static line and my one free fall jump, I sat in the door, grabbed the strut(?) under the wing, worked hands up and out until hanging, then let go. i actually can't see it. but i believe you. that is nuts. that plane weighs less than a ton, empty. having some 200 lb hillbilly bail out of it at cruise speed is suitably terrifying to me. i would never think of doing it. Bill’s a hillbilly? Who knew!👨🌾
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 29, 2022 21:57:27 GMT -5
that plane shot was from Okla-fucking-homa. what can i say? call me prejudiced if you like.
|
|
dondub
Senior Associate
The meek shall indeed inherit the earth but only after the Visigoths are done with it.
Joined: Jan 16, 2014 19:31:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,110
Location: Seattle
Favorite Drink: Laphroig
|
Post by dondub on Sept 29, 2022 22:31:49 GMT -5
that plane shot was from Okla-fucking-homa. what can i say? call me prejudiced if you like. He’s a Washingtonian. 👍🏻
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 29, 2022 22:51:26 GMT -5
that plane shot was from Okla-fucking-homa. what can i say? call me prejudiced if you like. He’s a Washingtonian. 👍🏻 yeah, i can't help it if he chose an Oklahoma plane to back up his claim, can i? besides, maybe he likes to bail out in tornado alley. who am i to stop him?
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,513
|
Post by billisonboard on Sept 29, 2022 22:53:12 GMT -5
The picture and info was from a Google search.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 29, 2022 23:03:00 GMT -5
The picture and info was from a Google search. sure, hillbilly.
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,781
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
Member is Online
|
Post by Opti on Sept 30, 2022 1:01:29 GMT -5
that plane shot was from Okla-fucking-homa. what can i say? call me prejudiced if you like. Didn't expect to see you own your prejudice. It's OK, flat land, by definition no hillbillies. Including results for where do hillbillies live.
Do you want results only for where do hillbillys live?
Hillbilly is a term (often derogatory) for people who dwell in rural, mountainous areas in the United States, primarily in southern Appalachia and the Ozarks. The term was later used to refer to people from other rural and mountainous areas west of the Mississippi river too, particularly those of the Rocky Mountains and near the Rio Grande.(From Wikipedia)
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 30, 2022 1:08:05 GMT -5
that plane shot was from Okla-fucking-homa. what can i say? call me prejudiced if you like. Didn't expect to see you own your prejudice. It's OK, flat land, by definition no hillbillies. Including results for where do hillbillies live.
Do you want results only for where do hillbillys live?
Hillbilly is a term (often derogatory) for people who dwell in rural, mountainous areas in the United States, primarily in southern Appalachia and the Ozarks. The term was later used to refer to people from other rural and mountainous areas west of the Mississippi river too, particularly those of the Rocky Mountains and near the Rio Grande.(From Wikipedia) fine. okies. jesus. what is it with you, my liberal brethren>>>>>
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,614
|
Post by Tennesseer on Sept 30, 2022 19:40:13 GMT -5
“What does Trump have on Judge Cannon?”: Experts stunned after judge overrules own special masterJudge Aileen Cannon on Thursday overruled the special master she appointed to review thousands of documents seized from Mar-a-Lago, shielding former President Donald Trump from addressing his claims that documents may have been "planted" or "declassified" in court. Cannon, a Trump appointee in southern Florida, issued an order extending the timeline of the review after Trump's lawyers objected to the expedited schedule laid out by special master Raymond Dearie, who was chosen from a list proposed by Trump's lawyers. Under the new order, the review and any surrounding issues around Dearie's rulings "will almost certainly" stretch into next year, according to Politico. Cannon, who has served on the bench for less than two years, also overruled Dearie, a Reagan appointee who has served for 36 years, on his requirement that Trump assert whether the FBI's inventory of seized items is accurate, effectively challenging his public claim that agents may have "planted" evidence. "There shall be no separate requirement on Plaintiff at this stage, prior to the review of any of the Seized Materials, to lodge ex ante final objections to the accuracy of Defendant's Inventory, its descriptions, or its contents. The Court's Appointment Order did not contemplate that obligation," Cannon wrote. She wrote that if any issues rise during the review "that require reconsideration of the Inventory or the need to object to its contents, the parties shall make those matters known to the Special Master for appropriate resolution and recommendation to this Court." Cannon also rejected other parts of Dearie's plan for the review, giving Trump's lawyers additional weeks to assert whether they believe any documents are covered by attorney-client privilege or executive privilege. "If Judge Cannon was going to continue calling every ball in Trump's favor, I'm not at all sure why she felt the need to appoint a special master to review the documents the government seized from Mar-a-Lago," tweeted Joyce Vance, a former U.S. attorney. "No real surprises here. The name of the game is delay. Judge Cannon countermanded Judge Dearie's streamlined schedule & helped Trump advance his usual delay game in litigation. That means it could be late December before DOJ can use documents it recovered from Mar-a-Lago." Cannon previously came under criticism for repeatedly siding with Trump in the case. Cannon's initial order barred the Justice Department from continuing its criminal investigation into the documents and ordered documents marked classified to be included in the special master review and shared with Trump's lawyers. A federal appeals court overturned those rulings, arguing that she had abused her discretion and that Trump "not even attempted to show that he has a need to know the information contained in the classified documents." Harvard Law Professor Laurence Tribe said that Cannon's order on Thursday was "clearly wrong." "But she's a sideshow now that the Court of Appeals has lifted her injunction with respect to the classified documents," he tweeted. "On the eve of her stupidly extended deadline, DOJ should indict Trump and render her delays and game playing moot." Former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti said the order was a "minor win" for Trump. "But this doesn't change the difficult position Trump is in," he added. "He still has to take a position regarding every seized document." Some legal experts criticized Cannon for repeatedly intervening on Trump's behalf. "She's an embarrassment to the federal judiciary," wrote conservative attorney George Conway. "Cannon's latest order has neither law nor reason on its side," tweeted former U.S. Attorney Harry Litman. "Judges never micromanage special masters this way," he said. Former federal prosecutor Andrew Weissmann, who served on special counsel Bob Mueller's team, said that the order was "one more piece of evidence that she is completely unfit to serve on the bench." "What does Donald Trump have on Judge Cannon or her husband?" Weissmann wrote. "Something is SO off in her decisions (and the court of appeals said as much) that it is impossible not to ask this question in all seriousness." “What does Trump have on Judge Cannon?”: Experts stunned after judge overrules own special masterRelated article here: How Does the Justice Department Deal Judge Cannon Now?
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 30, 2022 19:50:03 GMT -5
can the DOJ appeal THIS ruling?
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,781
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
Member is Online
|
Post by Opti on Sept 30, 2022 19:54:53 GMT -5
Didn't expect to see you own your prejudice. It's OK, flat land, by definition no hillbillies. Including results for where do hillbillies live.
Do you want results only for where do hillbillys live?
Hillbilly is a term (often derogatory) for people who dwell in rural, mountainous areas in the United States, primarily in southern Appalachia and the Ozarks. The term was later used to refer to people from other rural and mountainous areas west of the Mississippi river too, particularly those of the Rocky Mountains and near the Rio Grande.(From Wikipedia) fine. okies. jesus. what is it with you, my liberal brethren>>>>> Okla-fucking-homa. You slurred an entire state, you think we should be fine with that? Why?
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,614
|
Post by Tennesseer on Sept 30, 2022 20:10:10 GMT -5
can the DOJ appeal THIS ruling? Just reading the below now-published an hour ago. DOJ has appealed. U.S. Justice Dept seeks expedited ruling in Trump special master caseWASHINGTON (Reuters) -The U.S. Justice Department on Friday moved to expedite its appeal of an order appointing a special master to review all of the records the FBI seized from former President Donald Trump's Florida estate. In a court filing late on Friday, the Justice Department said its inability to access the non-classified documents is still hampering significant aspects of its investigation on the retention of government records at Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate. The Justice Department is asking the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals to order all papers be filed in the case by Nov. 11, and hold any necessary hearing in the case as soon as that briefing is completed. Trump's lawyers are opposing the request, the government said. The former president's attorneys did not immediately return a request for comment. The Justice Department said that because it is currently barred from accessing the roughly 11,000 non-classified documents seized in the search, it cannot examine documents that were stored alongside the classified materials. The government said those non-classified records "may shed light" on how the documents were transferred to or stored at the Mar-a-Lago estate, and who might have accessed them. The records might also serve as evidence of violations of federal statutes on obstruction and the concealment or removal of government records, according to Friday's filing. The Justice Department said an expedited schedule may allow the government, if it wins the appeal, “to more quickly resume its full investigation without restraints on its review and use of evidence seized pursuant to a lawful search warrant.” The government attorneys added that, if the Atlanta-based appeals court rules in the Justice Department's favor, it would end the litigation over materials seized in the search as well as the outside review of those documents. That review, being conducted by special master Senior U.S. District Judge Raymond Dearie, is currently set to end by Dec. 16. The appeals court earlier this month sided with the Justice Department in lifting parts of the ruling from U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon that had prevented the department from relying on classified materials taken in the search as part of its investigation, such as bringing up the sensitive records' contents in witness interviews or presenting charges to a grand jury. The 11th Circuit also blocked Dearie from accessing the classified records as part of his proceedings. Cannon on Sept. 5 granted Trump’s request for that third-party review of the seized documents, over the objections of the Justice Department. That process has already been delayed, as Trump and the government have not yet been able to secure a contract with an outside vendor to host the documents as part of the review. Cannon on Thursday also rejected Dearie’s instruction that Trump verify the list of documents taken from the property, after the former president's lawyers argued that requirement was outside the scope of the special master’s authority. Trump has claimed without evidence that FBI agents planted evidence as they searched his resort on Aug. 8, but his attorneys have not repeated the same allegations in court. U.S. Justice Dept seeks expedited ruling in Trump special master case
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Sept 30, 2022 22:14:48 GMT -5
fine. okies. jesus. what is it with you, my liberal brethren>>>>> Okla-fucking-homa. You slurred an entire state, you think we should be fine with that? Why? because i am from Cali-fucking-fornia? i don't take anything too seriously, and that comment was not meant that way. if you took it seriously, and were harmed by it, i apologize. it was totally, 100% unintended. i have nothing against Oklahoma at all. i know they have a lot of native peoples there, and i am partial to natives. don't like their elected officials, but that is not the fault of the natives. and i am not a plains person, but i respect people who can deal with it. if that was not suitably contrite, let me know, and i will continue.
|
|
tallguy
Senior Associate
Joined: Apr 2, 2011 19:21:59 GMT -5
Posts: 14,193
|
Post by tallguy on Sept 30, 2022 22:32:07 GMT -5
fine. okies. jesus. what is it with you, my liberal brethren>>>>> Okla-fucking-homa. You slurred an entire state, you think we should be fine with that? Why? Because it's Oklahoma. And as we all remember, "Only TWO THINGS come out of Oklahoma...."
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,781
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
Member is Online
|
Post by Opti on Oct 1, 2022 0:37:35 GMT -5
Okla-fucking-homa. You slurred an entire state, you think we should be fine with that? Why? Because it's Oklahoma. And as we all remember, "Only TWO THINGS come out of Oklahoma...." Did not remember this nor agree with the character once I found the clip.
|
|
tallguy
Senior Associate
Joined: Apr 2, 2011 19:21:59 GMT -5
Posts: 14,193
|
Post by tallguy on Oct 1, 2022 1:24:36 GMT -5
Because it's Oklahoma. And as we all remember, "Only TWO THINGS come out of Oklahoma...." Did not remember this nor agree with the character once I found the clip. So what? It's not about the state itself...at all. The particular state is irrelevant. At the end of the same movie it was used again, by the same character to a recruit in a new class...about Arizona. In an earlier movie, Full Metal Jacket, it was used in the same context (drill instructor to recruit) about Texas. Get a clue. Nobody gives a f*** about the state itself or which state is targeted. That's not the point. I could pull up some old Joe Piscopo clips instead. They make New Jersey look REAL good....
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,781
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
Member is Online
|
Post by Opti on Oct 1, 2022 2:28:05 GMT -5
Did not remember this nor agree with the character once I found the clip. So what? It's not about the state itself...at all. The particular state is irrelevant. At the end of the same movie it was used again, by the same character to a recruit in a new class...about Arizona. In an earlier movie, Full Metal Jacket, it was used in the same context (drill instructor to recruit) about Texas. Get a clue. Nobody gives a f*** about the state itself or which state is targeted. That's not the point. I could pull up some old Joe Piscopo clips instead. They make New Jersey look REAL good.... Right ... I thought this was all in context to DJ's comment. Its not movie dialogue I remember or will even choose to remember going forward. What's up with the NJ hate? One person or one character's opinion does not define a state. Your post and DJ's jeez feel a lot like gas lighting of the lessers. I may be white, but I am not male, and of a vintage that I have been gaslit and discriminated against because I'm female. And sometimes assumptions are made too because it is clear from my voice, I did not grow up here. TG, you have all of western WA or non-Seattle in your state as well. Bruce Springsteen is from NJ. The Character Lacey in Doonesbury I believe is based on a real well respected female politician from NJ. Corey Booker, etc. Its not all the extremely regional Sopranos here not NJ shore reality TV show. But feel free to mansplain what that was about. Feels like a black male bully in charge wanted to belittle the white boy hick as he saw him. Had a thing against gays and or wanted the target to be forced to defend his maleness.
|
|
tallguy
Senior Associate
Joined: Apr 2, 2011 19:21:59 GMT -5
Posts: 14,193
|
Post by tallguy on Oct 1, 2022 3:34:33 GMT -5
So what? It's not about the state itself...at all. The particular state is irrelevant. At the end of the same movie it was used again, by the same character to a recruit in a new class...about Arizona. In an earlier movie, Full Metal Jacket, it was used in the same context (drill instructor to recruit) about Texas. Get a clue. Nobody gives a f*** about the state itself or which state is targeted. That's not the point. I could pull up some old Joe Piscopo clips instead. They make New Jersey look REAL good.... Right ... I thought this was all in context to DJ's comment. Its not movie dialogue I remember or will even choose to remember going forward. What's up with the NJ hate? One person or one character's opinion does not define a state. Your post and DJ's jeez feel a lot like gas lighting of the lessers. I may be white, but I am not male, and of a vintage that I have been gaslit and discriminated against because I'm female. And sometimes assumptions are made too because it is clear from my voice, I did not grow up here. TG, you have all of western WA or non-Seattle in your state as well. Bruce Springsteen is from NJ. The Character Lacey in Doonesbury I believe is based on a real well respected female politician from NJ. Corey Booker, etc. Its not all the extremely regional Sopranos here not NJ shore reality TV show. But feel free to mansplain what that was about. Feels like a black male bully in charge wanted to belittle the white boy hick as he saw him. Had a thing against gays and or wanted the target to be forced to defend his maleness. Mansplaining is probably a very poor term to use here.... Someone who does understand something explaining to someone who doesn't is not properly defined as "mansplaining." It was a joke, based on a fairly well-known movie reference. It was a joke just like dj's was. It wasn't prejudice, it's not gaslighting, it's not discrimination, it's not anything related to any nonsense that you brought into it. If you don't understand what people mean when they post it would probably be a good idea to refrain from commenting until you can figure it out. Or ask. That works too. Accusing in that situation makes the accuser look bad. As far as the scene itself, it was not race-based at all. In the other movie the drill sergeant is white, as is the soldier. Race has nothing to do with it. I was never in the military so was never faced with that type of situation, but it is not at all difficult to understand. Anyone who was in the military can confirm if they wish, but here goes: If you have a group of raw recruits, enlistees, or draftees who have never been exposed to the military before, the first thing they do (at least back then, I don't know about now) is break you down. They don't have to break down every person individually, and the "Okie" was not the only one in the movie to get the sergeant's "attention." Everyone else will see, and learn, and fall in line. Who you are as an individual doesn't matter. Who you were before doesn't matter. Military culture is built on respect for the chain of command and the duty to follow orders. Officers know that if people don't follow orders it is more likely that those people or others will die. They want to impress upon new personnel from day one how important that is. They break you down first so they can build you into what you need to be. Imagine a football team. Every player at every position has an assignment on every play. That assignment is different depending on what play is called, but each player involved has to perform their assignment for the play to succeed. A great player who goes off on his own and does not do what the play calls for will not stay on the field long. He is hurting the team instead of helping it, because nobody can depend on him to be where he is supposed to be or do what he is supposed to do. A military unit is just as much a team, with far greater consequences at stake. If these recruits are still thinking of themselves as individuals the team will fail. The drill sergeants, in a very dramatic way, are instilling in these recruits the mindset that the military requires. A key point, however, is that this is not simply abuse for the sake of abuse. It has a purpose. No branch of the military wants bad soldiers, or sailors, or airmen, or whatever. They want people they can count on. Always. The stakes are too high otherwise.
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,781
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
Member is Online
|
Post by Opti on Oct 1, 2022 4:11:39 GMT -5
Right ... I thought this was all in context to DJ's comment. Its not movie dialogue I remember or will even choose to remember going forward. What's up with the NJ hate? One person or one character's opinion does not define a state. Your post and DJ's jeez feel a lot like gas lighting of the lessers. I may be white, but I am not male, and of a vintage that I have been gaslit and discriminated against because I'm female. And sometimes assumptions are made too because it is clear from my voice, I did not grow up here. TG, you have all of western WA or non-Seattle in your state as well. Bruce Springsteen is from NJ. The Character Lacey in Doonesbury I believe is based on a real well respected female politician from NJ. Corey Booker, etc. Its not all the extremely regional Sopranos here not NJ shore reality TV show. But feel free to mansplain what that was about. Feels like a black male bully in charge wanted to belittle the white boy hick as he saw him. Had a thing against gays and or wanted the target to be forced to defend his maleness. Mansplaining is probably a very poor term to use here.... Someone who does understand something explaining to someone who doesn't is not properly defined as "mansplaining." It was a joke, based on a fairly well-known movie reference. It was a joke just like dj's was. It wasn't prejudice, it's not gaslighting, it's not discrimination, it's not anything related to any nonsense that you brought into it. If you don't understand what people mean when they post it would probably be a good idea to refrain from commenting until you can figure it out. Or ask. That works too. Accusing in that situation makes the accuser look bad. As far as the scene itself, it was not race-based at all. In the other movie the drill sergeant is white, as is the soldier. Race has nothing to do with it. I was never in the military so was never faced with that type of situation, but it is not at all difficult to understand. Anyone who was in the military can confirm if they wish, but here goes: If you have a group of raw recruits, enlistees, or draftees who have never been exposed to the military before, the first thing they do (at least back then, I don't know about now) is break you down. They don't have to break down every person individually, and the "Okie" was not the only one in the movie to get the sergeant's "attention." Everyone else will see, and learn, and fall in line. Who you are as an individual doesn't matter. Who you were before doesn't matter. Military culture is built on respect for the chain of command and the duty to follow orders. Officers know that if people don't follow orders it is more likely that those people or others will die. They want to impress upon new personnel from day one how important that is. They break you down first so they can build you into what you need to be. Imagine a football team. Every player at every position has an assignment on every play. That assignment is different depending on what play is called, but each player involved has to perform their assignment for the play to succeed. A great player who goes off on his own and does not do what the play calls for will not stay on the field long. He is hurting the team instead of helping it, because nobody can depend on him to be where he is supposed to be or do what he is supposed to do. A military unit is just as much a team, with far greater consequences at stake. If these recruits are still thinking of themselves as individuals the team will fail. The drill sergeants, in a very dramatic way, are instilling in these recruits the mindset that the military requires. A key point, however, is that this is not simply abuse for the sake of abuse. It has a purpose. No branch of the military wants bad soldiers, or sailors, or airmen, or whatever. They want people they can count on. Always. The stakes are too high otherwise. Its only a joke if you know it is a joke and the reference. Otherwise at face value ... Its only a joke if you know it is a joke and the reference. Otherwise at face value ... (I decided to bold this, because if someone tells a joke, and someone doesn't get it, maybe the fault does not lie with the listener. You can't understand a reference you have no knowledge of. If the joke falls flat one can ask why. Thanks for the explanation. It would be wise if DJ and you remember we don't all watch or remember the same things. Plus from a gender perspective, I have a feeling more men remember that line and things like that then women or trans folk ... just thinking.)
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,781
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
Member is Online
|
Post by Opti on Oct 1, 2022 4:27:37 GMT -5
Yes I understand how the military chooses to break people to enforce the chain of command. I have not played sports at your level but have played on soccer teams and volleyball teams. Some of the latter I chose to be one of the captains for outside of work sports, because I am better at understanding how to make a team work with what you are given. For rec sports, especially with colleagues, people will quit on you or not show up if you treat them like crap. You have to build your team another way to succeed. If have done that multiple times and even on the fly to give a higher up bragging rights. In fact, when he didn't like how I was doing things, I did speak back to him frankly - do you want to lose your way again, or do you want to try my way and win? Non spoiler alert, we won, because I understand talent, volleyball and how to deploy them effectively against another team.
So, imagine volleyball which is played different ways depending on coaching and level. Some of us have to suck it up that we are not the stars and be the generalists that keep things going. Filling in holes and being universal player depending on what the coach or the captain needs. I built up the egos of my work colleagues in order to get them to play my way enough to win. We had to win two out of three. I promised them freedom in game three no matter what, in order to get my two chances to win. I was never at the level that we ran preset 'plays' or attacks, but I understand it. Volleyball has way more flow than football at any level and thankfully having only six positions the assignments can also be more fluid if need be. More like basketball.
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,781
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
Member is Online
|
Post by Opti on Oct 1, 2022 4:45:26 GMT -5
Did not remember this nor agree with the character once I found the clip. So what? It's not about the state itself...at all. The particular state is irrelevant. At the end of the same movie it was used again, by the same character to a recruit in a new class...about Arizona. In an earlier movie, Full Metal Jacket, it was used in the same context (drill instructor to recruit) about Texas. Get a clue. Nobody gives a f*** about the state itself or which state is targeted. That's not the point. I could pull up some old Joe Piscopo clips instead. They make New Jersey look REAL good.... Get a clue? And you said mansplaining was not the correct term? I love movies but what I remember more was a general thing, the cycle restarts. Not the actual insults, etc. which by the way are picked and modified for the target, It doesn't work all that well if you try to needle me about Texas when I have no attachment to it whatsoever. I do not like military movies, and similar. Never saw Full Metal Jacket and various other famous films of the genre. Only saw saving Private Ryan because I wanted to understand my Dad's military experience. The opening was very rough for me.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,513
|
Post by billisonboard on Oct 1, 2022 10:21:54 GMT -5
fine. okies. jesus. what is it with you, my liberal brethren>>>>> Okla-fucking-homa. You slurred an entire state, you think we should be fine with that? Why? ... But feel free to mansplain what that was about. ... You slur an entire gender, you think we should be fine with that?
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 1, 2022 11:36:32 GMT -5
So what? It's not about the state itself...at all. The particular state is irrelevant. At the end of the same movie it was used again, by the same character to a recruit in a new class...about Arizona. In an earlier movie, Full Metal Jacket, it was used in the same context (drill instructor to recruit) about Texas. Get a clue. Nobody gives a f*** about the state itself or which state is targeted. That's not the point. I could pull up some old Joe Piscopo clips instead. They make New Jersey look REAL good.... Right ... I thought this was all in context to DJ's comment. Its not movie dialogue I remember or will even choose to remember going forward. What's up with the NJ hate? One person or one character's opinion does not define a state. Your post and DJ's jeez feel a lot like gas lighting of the lessers. . well, i don't gas light, and i think of you as an equal on this board. i meant my apology to be succinct and contrite. i don't want to excuse or explain it. i just wanted to say that i was NOT being serious. i was paraphrasing My Cousin Vinny. i have nothing against any PLACE. this is a beautiful planet, and every place has it's charm. again, i was trying to be funny. if i insulted you or Oklahoma, i AGAIN apologize.
|
|
tallguy
Senior Associate
Joined: Apr 2, 2011 19:21:59 GMT -5
Posts: 14,193
|
Post by tallguy on Oct 1, 2022 11:53:12 GMT -5
Mansplaining is probably a very poor term to use here.... Someone who does understand something explaining to someone who doesn't is not properly defined as "mansplaining." It was a joke, based on a fairly well-known movie reference. It was a joke just like dj's was. It wasn't prejudice, it's not gaslighting, it's not discrimination, it's not anything related to any nonsense that you brought into it. If you don't understand what people mean when they post it would probably be a good idea to refrain from commenting until you can figure it out. Or ask. That works too. Accusing in that situation makes the accuser look bad. As far as the scene itself, it was not race-based at all. In the other movie the drill sergeant is white, as is the soldier. Race has nothing to do with it. I was never in the military so was never faced with that type of situation, but it is not at all difficult to understand. Anyone who was in the military can confirm if they wish, but here goes: If you have a group of raw recruits, enlistees, or draftees who have never been exposed to the military before, the first thing they do (at least back then, I don't know about now) is break you down. They don't have to break down every person individually, and the "Okie" was not the only one in the movie to get the sergeant's "attention." Everyone else will see, and learn, and fall in line. Who you are as an individual doesn't matter. Who you were before doesn't matter. Military culture is built on respect for the chain of command and the duty to follow orders. Officers know that if people don't follow orders it is more likely that those people or others will die. They want to impress upon new personnel from day one how important that is. They break you down first so they can build you into what you need to be. Imagine a football team. Every player at every position has an assignment on every play. That assignment is different depending on what play is called, but each player involved has to perform their assignment for the play to succeed. A great player who goes off on his own and does not do what the play calls for will not stay on the field long. He is hurting the team instead of helping it, because nobody can depend on him to be where he is supposed to be or do what he is supposed to do. A military unit is just as much a team, with far greater consequences at stake. If these recruits are still thinking of themselves as individuals the team will fail. The drill sergeants, in a very dramatic way, are instilling in these recruits the mindset that the military requires. A key point, however, is that this is not simply abuse for the sake of abuse. It has a purpose. No branch of the military wants bad soldiers, or sailors, or airmen, or whatever. They want people they can count on. Always. The stakes are too high otherwise. Its only a joke if you know it is a joke and the reference. Otherwise at face value ... Its only a joke if you know it is a joke and the reference. Otherwise at face value ... (I decided to bold this, because if someone tells a joke, and someone doesn't get it, maybe the fault does not lie with the listener.You can't understand a reference you have no knowledge of. If the joke falls flat one can ask why. Thanks for the explanation. It would be wise if DJ and you remember we don't all watch or remember the same things. Plus from a gender perspective, I have a feeling more men remember that line and things like that then women or trans folk ... just thinking.) I decided to bold this because sometimes there is no fault at all. You didn't get the joke. Okay. There is no fault in that. There IS fault in immediately jumping to a reactionary, "I have to protect the world from hurt" accusatory response BECAUSE you did not get the joke. Nobody else is responsible for your not knowing a fairly well-known movie reference. I recognized dj's as a joke, though I could not immediately place the reference. That doesn't matter, really, because I do not have to know the precise reference. Mine was, as I said, fairly well-known to the point that I have heard people use it in the general lexicon. I even set it up as a joke to make sure anyone who didn't get it would be able to figure it out. " And as we all remember...." with a smiley at the end. The little winky guy at the end pretty much always means it's a joke, so even someone who does not get the joke can figure out that it is one. If every writer had to make sure that every reader knew every word and every reference he used, this would be a very boring world. A good writer actually has the responsibility to use at least some words and references that are not immediately understood by every reader. For every reader that says, "I haven't seen that before. I wonder what it means? I should look it up" that's a win. A win for everybody, even if they don't recognize it. When it happens a lot, it lifts language to a higher level. What kind of world would this be if every discussion were on the, "This is Dick. Dick has a dog. His name is Spot" level? That example is a bit extreme, but the point remains. Either way, we are not responsible for your ignorance. Also, it should be expected that one put a little bit of thought into a situation before they react. For example, are there any two posters here who are LESS likely to use racist or transphobic language than dj and myself? We have many years of posting history to prove who we are. (I will stipulate of course that there are MANY posters who are EQUALLY unlikely to use such language, but it is very difficult to get lower than zero per cent.) DJ is so concerned about things like this that he even went back and apologized for you not getting the joke. That is something that I, apparently, am unwilling to do.
|
|
tallguy
Senior Associate
Joined: Apr 2, 2011 19:21:59 GMT -5
Posts: 14,193
|
Post by tallguy on Oct 1, 2022 11:59:06 GMT -5
Yes I understand how the military chooses to break people to enforce the chain of command. I have not played sports at your level but have played on soccer teams and volleyball teams. Some of the latter I chose to be one of the captains for outside of work sports, because I am better at understanding how to make a team work with what you are given. For rec sports, especially with colleagues, people will quit on you or not show up if you treat them like crap. You have to build your team another way to succeed. If have done that multiple times and even on the fly to give a higher up bragging rights. In fact, when he didn't like how I was doing things, I did speak back to him frankly - do you want to lose your way again, or do you want to try my way and win? Non spoiler alert, we won, because I understand talent, volleyball and how to deploy them effectively against another team. So, imagine volleyball which is played different ways depending on coaching and level. Some of us have to suck it up that we are not the stars and be the generalists that keep things going. Filling in holes and being universal player depending on what the coach or the captain needs. I built up the egos of my work colleagues in order to get them to play my way enough to win. We had to win two out of three. I promised them freedom in game three no matter what, in order to get my two chances to win. I was never at the level that we ran preset 'plays' or attacks, but I understand it. Volleyball has way more flow than football at any level and thankfully having only six positions the assignments can also be more fluid if need be. More like basketball. I seriously hope you are not comparing the military to coed or rec league volleyball.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,233
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 1, 2022 12:01:57 GMT -5
i am well meaning in all things. the very idea that i have hurt anyone sends me into a tailspin. i even considered leaving the board.
i would NEVER insult anyone intentionally. if i have EVER caused any harm here, it was because i was being grumpy, or blithely ignorant of hurtful language.
i don't want to drift into a long explanation. this is my last post on the subject. i just want to offer this to ANYONE here that i have insulted in the past. when i am dead and gone, i don't want to be remembered for the hurt i did, as if i meant it.
|
|
tallguy
Senior Associate
Joined: Apr 2, 2011 19:21:59 GMT -5
Posts: 14,193
|
Post by tallguy on Oct 1, 2022 12:25:22 GMT -5
i am well meaning in all things. the very idea that i have hurt anyone sends me into a tailspin. i even considered leaving the board. i would NEVER insult anyone intentionally. if i have EVER caused any harm here, it was because i was being grumpy, or blithely ignorant of hurtful language. i don't want to drift into a long explanation. this is my last post on the subject. i just want to offer this to ANYONE here that i have insulted in the past. when i am dead and gone, i don't want to be remembered for the hurt i did, as if i meant it. The vast majority of people here know that. Don't worry about the few who don't. If anybody can read here for more than a week or two and not see what motivates you, that is an indictment of them. Not of you. The world really does become much simpler when you realize that you cannot make everyone understand everything, no matter how much you try.
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,781
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
Member is Online
|
Post by Opti on Oct 1, 2022 12:51:51 GMT -5
Yes I understand how the military chooses to break people to enforce the chain of command. I have not played sports at your level but have played on soccer teams and volleyball teams. Some of the latter I chose to be one of the captains for outside of work sports, because I am better at understanding how to make a team work with what you are given. For rec sports, especially with colleagues, people will quit on you or not show up if you treat them like crap. You have to build your team another way to succeed. If have done that multiple times and even on the fly to give a higher up bragging rights. In fact, when he didn't like how I was doing things, I did speak back to him frankly - do you want to lose your way again, or do you want to try my way and win? Non spoiler alert, we won, because I understand talent, volleyball and how to deploy them effectively against another team. So, imagine volleyball which is played different ways depending on coaching and level. Some of us have to suck it up that we are not the stars and be the generalists that keep things going. Filling in holes and being universal player depending on what the coach or the captain needs. I built up the egos of my work colleagues in order to get them to play my way enough to win. We had to win two out of three. I promised them freedom in game three no matter what, in order to get my two chances to win. I was never at the level that we ran preset 'plays' or attacks, but I understand it. Volleyball has way more flow than football at any level and thankfully having only six positions the assignments can also be more fluid if need be. More like basketball. I seriously hope you are not comparing the military to coed or rec league volleyball. . (point) <----- Missed I seriously hope since time has elapsed since you posted this, you can notice the theme of team building. There are multiple ways to build cohesive teams, even for life and death situations. Just because that's how the US military does things does not mean it is a good way or even the best way to build a team to rely on.
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,781
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
Member is Online
|
Post by Opti on Oct 1, 2022 12:54:34 GMT -5
Okla-fucking-homa. You slurred an entire state, you think we should be fine with that? Why? ... But feel free to mansplain what that was about. ... You slur an entire gender, you think we should be fine with that? I didn't slur an entire gender. At best I targeted one male poster.
|
|