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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Sept 27, 2022 12:42:39 GMT -5
Woulda shoulda coulda. Perhaps if legislation like this, by people who are utterly clueless (aka old white men), wouldn’t get passed, so many tragedies like this would not occur. Do any of these guys even consult an OB as to what conditions are terminally fatal in a fetus? |
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 27, 2022 12:48:54 GMT -5
Woulda shoulda coulda. Perhaps if legislation like this, by people who are utterly clueless (aka old white men), wouldn’t get passed, so many tragedies like this would not occur. Do any of these guys even consult an OB as to what conditions are terminally fatal in a fetus? Don't you know being an expert is a BAD thing? Why ask an expert when you consider yourself to have Jesus on your side? It's because it's not and never has been about the well being and protection of the fetus. It is about making sure women stay in their place and men keep the privilege. Study after study shows that the more control women have over their reproduction the more equal society starts to become. Republicans have made it crystal clear their entire agenda is to prevent that from happening. 2020 is already going to set women back generations in the workforce. Republicans are using this as an opportunity to polish us off. What sickens me is other women go right along with it. They are cutting off their nose to spite their face thinking if they fight hard enough for the white dudes they'll actually get a seat at the table instead of crumbs. And all those people who cheer forcing religion onto others are the same ones that celebrate Trump's ban on certain brown people coming into the country but the only reason they could possibly want to come here is to install Shira law and we're a free country dammit! Only Christians can enforce their will on the majority here dammit! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2022 14:31:06 GMT -5
Woulda shoulda coulda. Perhaps if legislation like this, by people who are utterly clueless (aka old white men), wouldn’t get passed, so many tragedies like this would not occur. Do any of these guys even consult an OB as to what conditions are terminally fatal in a fetus? I don't know if a list is the answer. How do you know you've listed every single one? And then there are grey areas. They knew before my great-niece was born that she had an underdeveloped heart chamber and might not survive the birth and might die soon after. My niece was advised to terminate and she chose not to. It was determined after the baby was born that they could repair her heart. She's now a pre-teen, exuberant, active and apparently healthy except for the scar down her sternum from 3 surgeries (and she's done with them now). I suspect they'll also advise her not to take up Ironman triathlons. After Roe v. Wade I read an article by a woman who DID choose to terminate the pregnancy when she got the same news. Her choice, IMO. Don't you know being an expert is a BAD thing? Why ask an expert when you consider yourself to have Jesus on your side? It's because it's not and never has been about the well being and protection of the fetus. It is about making sure women stay in their place and men keep the privilege. Study after study shows that the more control women have over their reproduction the more equal society starts to become. I'm not sure if I believe this of all anti-choice people. I think that the vast majority of them do believe that life begins at conception so any argument about the welfare of the woman falls on deaf ears. Even a fetus not ready to survive outside the mother is to be protected and that overrides the mother's right to an abortion. Do I believe that? Heck, no. But it's important to understand the point of view of people who oppose abortion. We won't be able to have a dialogue if we accuse them of attitudes they don't hold. I don't think Amy Coney Barrett wants to keep women in the kitchen. |
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Sept 27, 2022 16:15:07 GMT -5
Woulda shoulda coulda. Perhaps if legislation like this, by people who are utterly clueless (aka old white men), wouldn’t get passed, so many tragedies like this would not occur. Do any of these guys even consult an OB as to what conditions are terminally fatal in a fetus? I don't know if a list is the answer. How do you know you've listed every single one? And then there are grey areas. They knew before my great-niece was born that she had an underdeveloped heart chamber and might not survive the birth and might die soon after. My niece was advised to terminate and she chose not to. It was determined after the baby was born that they could repair her heart. She's now a pre-teen, exuberant, active and apparently healthy except for the scar down her sternum from 3 surgeries (and she's done with them now). I suspect they'll also advise her not to take up Ironman triathlons. After Roe v. Wade I read an article by a woman who DID choose to terminate the pregnancy when she got the same news. Her choice, IMO. Don't you know being an expert is a BAD thing? Why ask an expert when you consider yourself to have Jesus on your side? It's because it's not and never has been about the well being and protection of the fetus. It is about making sure women stay in their place and men keep the privilege. Study after study shows that the more control women have over their reproduction the more equal society starts to become. I'm not sure if I believe this of all anti-choice people. I think that the vast majority of them do believe that life begins at conception so any argument about the welfare of the woman falls on deaf ears. Even a fetus not ready to survive outside the mother is to be protected and that overrides the mother's right to an abortion. Do I believe that? Heck, no. But it's important to understand the point of view of people who oppose abortion. We won't be able to have a dialogue if we accuse them of attitudes they don't hold. I don't think Amy Coney Barrett wants to keep women in the kitchen. Terminally fatal is the key term here. You can’t live without a skull. Right now, the state of Idaho is now talking about banning emergency contraception, and birth control altogether. How do you have a dialog with someone who believes that a clump of cells trumps a woman’s right to cancer treatment? How do you speak to someone who believes a 10 year old child should bear the product of a rape? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2022 16:32:22 GMT -5
Right now, the state of Idaho is now talking about banning emergency contraception, and birth control altogether. How do you have a dialog with someone who believes that a clump of cells trumps a woman’s right to cancer treatment? How do you speak to someone who believes a 10 year old child should bear the product of a rape? All BC or just IUDs and pills? I know their argument (and again, I don't buy it) is that both prevent a zygote from being implanted in the uterus. And believe it or not, I do think we have some common ground with the anti- people. All of us should be concerned that our abortion rate in the US is double that of countries in Europe where it's legal, especially in Scandinavia. Yes, it helps that in many of those countries reliable BC is easily obtainable. All of us should be concerned about cases (not the majority, I know) where women have multiple abortions over their childbearing years. What can we change? |
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Sept 27, 2022 17:04:22 GMT -5
Right now, the state of Idaho is now talking about banning emergency contraception, and birth control altogether. How do you have a dialog with someone who believes that a clump of cells trumps a woman’s right to cancer treatment? How do you speak to someone who believes a 10 year old child should bear the product of a rape? All BC or just IUDs and pills? I know their argument (and again, I don't buy it) is that both prevent a zygote from being implanted in the uterus. And believe it or not, I do think we have some common ground with the anti- people. All of us should be concerned that our abortion rate in the US is double that of countries in Europe where it's legal, especially in Scandinavia. Yes, it helps that in many of those countries reliable BC is easily obtainable. All of us should be concerned about cases (not the majority, I know) where women have multiple abortions over their childbearing years. What can we change? The problem is that there is NO shift on the far right. About those that have multiple abortions, this is a moot point. I don’t like it, but it is not my business, nor is it your’s. The only business is between a woman and her doctor. |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Sept 27, 2022 17:08:45 GMT -5
Right now, the state of Idaho is now talking about banning emergency contraception, and birth control altogether. How do you have a dialog with someone who believes that a clump of cells trumps a woman’s right to cancer treatment? How do you speak to someone who believes a 10 year old child should bear the product of a rape? All BC or just IUDs and pills? I know their argument (and again, I don't buy it) is that both prevent a zygote from being implanted in the uterus. And believe it or not, I do think we have some common ground with the anti- people. All of us should be concerned that our abortion rate in the US is double that of countries in Europe where it's legal, especially in Scandinavia. Yes, it helps that in many of those countries reliable BC is easily obtainable. All of us should be concerned about cases (not the majority, I know) where women have multiple abortions over their childbearing years. What can we change? Improving access to reliable birth control would go a long way to preventing unwanted pregnancies. If we prevent the, no abortions Accurate sex education. Stop with the abstinence only nonsense. It doesn't work, and in the history of mankind, premarital and extra-marital sex has always happened Improve prenatal care and access to it All of the countries you are comparing us to have universal healthcare. Treating healthcare as a right and ensuring that people have access to it may help We are a different society, more individualistic and less invested in government taking care of us. I do not believe we will have their abortion rate as a result. But doing the above will at least give us a chance to make abortion less common. Conservatives are not consistent on this topic. They do not want abortions, yet are also against methods to prevent pregnancy. This is one of those situations where being practical gets you more of what you want than being absolutist. Unless they can agree to compromises, we will continue to have a high abortion rate. |
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Sept 27, 2022 17:09:35 GMT -5
I don't know if a list is the answer. How do you know you've listed every single one? And then there are grey areas. They knew before my great-niece was born that she had an underdeveloped heart chamber and might not survive the birth and might die soon after. My niece was advised to terminate and she chose not to. It was determined after the baby was born that they could repair her heart. She's now a pre-teen, exuberant, active and apparently healthy except for the scar down her sternum from 3 surgeries (and she's done with them now). I suspect they'll also advise her not to take up Ironman triathlons. After Roe v. Wade I read an article by a woman who DID choose to terminate the pregnancy when she got the same news. Her choice, IMO. I'm not sure if I believe this of all anti-choice people. I think that the vast majority of them do believe that life begins at conception so any argument about the welfare of the woman falls on deaf ears. Even a fetus not ready to survive outside the mother is to be protected and that overrides the mother's right to an abortion. Do I believe that? Heck, no. But it's important to understand the point of view of people who oppose abortion. We won't be able to have a dialogue if we accuse them of attitudes they don't hold. I don't think Amy Coney Barrett wants to keep women in the kitchen. Terminally fatal is the key term here. You can’t live without a skull. Right now, the state of Idaho is now talking about banning emergency contraception, and birth control altogether. How do you have a dialog with someone who believes that a clump of cells trumps a woman’s right to cancer treatment? How do you speak to someone who believes a 10 year old child should bear the product of a rapeyou can't, as disgusting a thought that is. and this is why abortion rights need to be codified by Congress, before we lose the window to do so. this isn't about protecting the potential lives, it is about about control. and it always has been.v |
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Sept 27, 2022 17:21:33 GMT -5
Right now, the state of Idaho is now talking about banning emergency contraception, and birth control altogether. How do you have a dialog with someone who believes that a clump of cells trumps a woman’s right to cancer treatment? How do you speak to someone who believes a 10 year old child should bear the product of a rape? All BC or just IUDs and pills? I know their argument (and again, I don't buy it) is that both prevent a zygote from being implanted in the uterus. And believe it or not, I do think we have some common ground with the anti- people. All of us should be concerned that our abortion rate in the US is double that of countries in Europe where it's legal, especially in Scandinavia. Yes, it helps that in many of those countries reliable BC is easily obtainable. All of us should be concerned about cases (not the majority, I know) where women have multiple abortions over their childbearing years. What can we change? Right now, you have healthcare professionals and pharmacists trying to gatekeeper contraceptives. Hell, I ran into this myself in KY, but I did an end run and got what I needed. Not everyone has my resources. There was a woman who posted online that a clerk at a drug store refused to sell her condoms when she went on a vacation with her husband and forgot her diaphragm. This was only a few months ago. There are a lot of people who believe that they have the right to gatekeep contraceptives out there. Yet…..let’s not consider abortion. You don’t see this disconnect? |
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Sept 27, 2022 17:33:28 GMT -5
A fertility doctor in Texas was writing about how things have gotten difficult there. Medications needed for fertility treatment(which can also be used in abortions) being questioned so that procedures are delayed. Methotrexate prescriptions being refused for ectopic pregnancies, which then require surgery, loss of a fallopian tube, and a decrease in fertility. These are only some of the consequences women who want to have children will deal with as a result of these draconian laws. Conservatives do not care about the suffering they cause. If they did, they would not have rushed these laws through. It isn't like they haven't had years to structure the laws they would pass if Roe was overturned. Instead we have this cluster, with all kinds of unintended consequences. They have no desire to compromise.
We can all agree that in the grand scheme of things, fewer abortions would be preferable. If they acted like they had any desire to honestly discuss how to get there we could have reasonable laws. Even when it was illegal, abortions still happened. A reality check is needed.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Sept 27, 2022 18:26:54 GMT -5
Woulda shoulda coulda. Perhaps if legislation like this, by people who are utterly clueless (aka old white men), wouldn’t get passed, so many tragedies like this would not occur. Do any of these guys even consult an OB as to what conditions are terminally fatal in a fetus? Waiting for one of the "righteous" protect the fetus at all cost" old geezers to decide this law needs to be adjusted and make fund raising to get an out of state abortion illegal. Heck they can go all out with a Texas style bounty hunters Scheme and nof just punish the woman and her doctor but also all donors.  |
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Sept 27, 2022 22:41:49 GMT -5
All BC or just IUDs and pills? I know their argument (and again, I don't buy it) is that both prevent a zygote from being implanted in the uterus. And believe it or not, I do think we have some common ground with the anti- people. All of us should be concerned that our abortion rate in the US is double that of countries in Europe where it's legal, especially in Scandinavia. Yes, it helps that in many of those countries reliable BC is easily obtainable. All of us should be concerned about cases (not the majority, I know) where women have multiple abortions over their childbearing years. What can we change? Right now, you have healthcare professionals and pharmacists trying to gatekeeper contraceptives. Hell, I ran into this myself in KY, but I did an end run and got what I needed. Not everyone has my resources. There was a woman who posted online that a clerk at a drug store refused to sell her condoms when she went on a vacation with her husband and forgot her diaphragm. This was only a few months ago. There are a lot of people who believe that they have the right to gatekeep contraceptives out there. Yet…..let’s not consider abortion. You don’t see this disconnect? I definitely remember going into a drug store in the early nineties and searching high and low for condoms and not finding them. I finally gave up and asked a clerk where to find them. The answer was an extremely snotty "We don't carry them."
Early nineties, pre-HAART, drug store, snottiness. And definitely not in Appalachia. It was in a pretty wealthy town too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2022 7:06:57 GMT -5
Right now, you have healthcare professionals and pharmacists trying to gatekeeper contraceptives. Hell, I ran into this myself in KY, but I did an end run and got what I needed. Not everyone has my resources. There was a woman who posted online that a clerk at a drug store refused to sell her condoms when she went on a vacation with her husband and forgot her diaphragm. This was only a few months ago. There are a lot of people who believe that they have the right to gatekeep contraceptives out there. Yet…..let’s not consider abortion. You don’t see this disconnect? Yes, the anti-BC people are scary. My mother had 5 children before she was 30. She wanted 5 children but later told me she didn't want them that fast. They used the Vatican-approved rhythm method, AKA Vatican Roulette. (Mom had a tubal ligation after that.) As I mentioned, I understand why some are against Plan B, IUDs and the Pill although I don't agree with them but when I mentioned barrier methods to a FB friend who was pushing Natural Family Planning (slightly better than rhythm but probably not good for any woman who just can't handle a pregnancy if it happens), her response was "You could get a latex allergy".  She's the only person I ever un-friended on FB. She was incapable of carrying on an intelligent dialogue. And remember I'm from the state where a dinosaur legislator named Todd Akin said in public that in cases of "legitimate rape" the woman's body shuts down and she can't get pregnant.  I've been watching Season 8 of "Call the Midwife"- it takes place in England in the mod-1960s. these episodes have to have been written before Roe v. Wade was overturned but 5 of the 8 episodes so far had a story line dealing with botched illegal abortions. I hope a lot of people watch them. |
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Sept 28, 2022 8:38:08 GMT -5
Woulda shoulda coulda. Perhaps if legislation like this, by people who are utterly clueless (aka old white men), wouldn’t get passed, so many tragedies like this would not occur. Do any of these guys even consult an OB as to what conditions are terminally fatal in a fetus? I don't know if a list is the answer. How do you know you've listed every single one? And then there are grey areas. They knew before my great-niece was born that she had an underdeveloped heart chamber and might not survive the birth and might die soon after. My niece was advised to terminate and she chose not to. It was determined after the baby was born that they could repair her heart. She's now a pre-teen, exuberant, active and apparently healthy except for the scar down her sternum from 3 surgeries (and she's done with them now). I suspect they'll also advise her not to take up Ironman triathlons. After Roe v. Wade I read an article by a woman who DID choose to terminate the pregnancy when she got the same news. Her choice, IMO. Don't you know being an expert is a BAD thing? Why ask an expert when you consider yourself to have Jesus on your side? It's because it's not and never has been about the well being and protection of the fetus. It is about making sure women stay in their place and men keep the privilege. Study after study shows that the more control women have over their reproduction the more equal society starts to become. I'm not sure if I believe this of all anti-choice people. I think that the vast majority of them do believe that life begins at conception so any argument about the welfare of the woman falls on deaf ears. Even a fetus not ready to survive outside the mother is to be protected and that overrides the mother's right to an abortion. Do I believe that? Heck, no. But it's important to understand the point of view of people who oppose abortion. We won't be able to have a dialogue if we accuse them of attitudes they don't hold. I don't think Amy Coney Barrett wants to keep women in the kitchen. How do you have a dialogue with someone who has decided my life as a wife, mother, daughter, sister is less important and more expendable than a clump of cells? How do you have a discussion with people who have reduced my value to a walking incubator? How do you have a discussion with someone who feels my husband should have zero input should I/the baby be at risk during birth? How do you discuss with people who feel it is totally reasonable to refuse treatments I need to live/function because I "might" get pregnant or I am already pregnant? What gives them the right to decide that me dying from cancer is worth it for the sake of the fetus? That I should suffer from a debitating chronic illness because that is my duty as a walking incubator? How do you discuss with people who feel it is totally reasonably for a woman to be wheeled out into the hallway while miscarrying risking bleed out because the doctors are too scared to intervene because the Catholic hospitals doctrine decrees that there has to be no fetal heartbeat. How do you discuss with people who expect a woman at great risk to herself to carry a fetus that is either already deceased or will die shortly after birth because it is the "right" thing to do? How do you discuss with people that claim a 10 YEAR OLD CHILD being pregnant is a gift and that she is not old enough to decide on abortion but is apparently old enough to be a mother? Or as I saw argued she should give birth and put it up for adoption because this is God's way of providing for a family who wants a child? Where do you even start? I'm sorry but there are some things where people are just wrong period. Relegating me to a second class citizen and bunch of men deciding I'm not allowed autonomy over my own body is wrong. Period. If this was really about "preventing pregnancy and saving the unborn" they wouldn't shriek over social safety nets or birth control being OTC. The expanded child tax credit last year lifted millions of kids out of poverty yet I see people on these boards bitching about how dare their tax dollars go towards people who were stupid by having kids they cannot afford. Proper sex education for both boys and girls has been proven to reduce pregnancy yet we don't want that in our schools it's icky and they might also God forbid learn sex isn't just heterosexual missionary style between married couples. All the stuff that has been PROVEN to reduce unwanted pregnancy and abortion Republicans want no part of. This is about making sure I have no power and one of the easiest ways to do that is strip my rights to my own body. |
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Sept 28, 2022 9:27:03 GMT -5
Do I believe that? Heck, no. But it's important to understand the point of view of people who oppose abortion. We won't be able to have a dialogue if we accuse them of attitudes they don't hold. I don't think Amy Coney Barrett wants to keep women in the kitchen.On the surface, yes, I'd agree with you. Amy Coney Barrett probably does not want to keep women in the kitchen. I think the problem is "on the surface." It is very clear people in power aren't considering the consequences of their choices. I'd also argue that Amy Coney Barrett has lead enough of a privileged life where she can handle the consequences of unintended pregnancy, has the resources to deal with the trauma that would be the result of not getting the medical care she might need. I found a people article where she and her husband were eating out on a Friday night. They have something like 7 kids. Privilege is being able to hire caregivers so that you and your husband can go out. With four kids, my husband and I get 10-20 hours of kid free time a year when we are awake. We do not have the means to eat out AND pay a sitter 15-20 an hour to watch two kids.
You honestly think she's got 9 people living a 3 bedroom, 1200 sq foot apartment like the folks with less means?
I would bet you $100 she would be shocked to know that's how the other half lives. And it's the other half that we really need to be watching out for. Not the privileged.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 15, 2022 12:29:34 GMT -5
New Hampshire GOP Senate Nominee: 'We've Got to Do Something' About In Vitro FertilizationRepublican Senate candidate Don Bolduc signaled that he’s open to limiting in-vitro fertilization, and would support a federal national abortion ban, during a taped conversation by Democratic operatives earlier this week in New Hampshire. “It is a disgusting practice,” Bolduc said of fertility clinics disposing of embryos in audio obtained by Vanity Fair. “I don’t like that practice at all, and I think it’s a separate issue, and we’ve got to do something about it.” Bolduc is running to unseat Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-N.H.), the former governor who flipped the seat in the 2016 election. He’s a typical right-wing kook: Bolduc signed onto a letter with current and former military officers that said Trump won the election “and damn it, I stand by [it],” and also said the question of abortion law “belongs to these gentlemen right here, who are state legislators representing you. That is the best way I think, as a man, that women get the best voice.” On his path toward giving women the best voice, Bolduc told the Democratic operative that he’s open to a federal abortion ban. “Put it this way, I am not going to say no, right?” he said. Then he backtracks. “Cause I have said no, no on an abortion ban at the federal level, but these other things, we’ve got to look into them. I don’t like that practice at all and I think it’s a separate issue and we’ve got to do something about it.” Doing something about IVF and embryo disposal is another stop on the road toward fetal personhood status—something that already exists in Georgia. Bolduc’s hesitancy about one facet of fertility clinics is a part of a bigger play by anti-abortion activists. “Ultimately, we believe that all human life is valuable and deserves our legal protection from that beginning moment of fertilization, whether that occurs through normal means or through IVF,” Rebecca Parma, senior legislative associate with Texas Right to Life, told a local Texas news outlet in July. “And so certainly we want those embryos who are created through the IVF process protected.” Fertility treatments and birth control are the next frontier for anti-abortion activists, particularly in states where abortion has been legislatively discarded. Bolduc, despite presenting himself as a maverick politician who answers to no one in the “Live Free or Die” state, is just another cog in the misogynistic, anti-abortion political machine. New Hampshire GOP Senate Nominee: 'We've Got to Do Something' About In Vitro Fertilization
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 15, 2022 12:32:32 GMT -5
From earlier this week: Supreme Court declines to hear fetal personhood caseThe Supreme Court declined on Tuesday to wade into the so-called fetal personhood debate, deciding not to take up a case out of Rhode Island over whether fetuses should have constitutional rights. A Catholic group and two pregnant women wanted to sue on behalf of the women’s unborn fetuses, but the Rhode Island Supreme Court – citing Roe v. Wade – said in May that they didn’t have the legal right to bring the case. The challengers urged the Supreme Court to step in and take the case after it overturned Roe in June. But the court declined to do so without comment. “This Court should grant the writ to finally determine whether prenatal life, at any gestational age, enjoys constitutional protection – considering the full and comprehensive history and tradition of our Constitution and law supporting personhood for unborn human beings,” the petitioners wrote in their request for the court to consider the case. The issue of fetal personhood raises complicated questions regarding the rights of fetuses that could impact issues such as in vitro fertilization and child support going forward. Since the court overturned Roe earlier this year, conservative states have enforced bans either restricting the procedure or banning it outright. Supreme Court declines to hear fetal personhood case |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Oct 19, 2022 9:18:55 GMT -5
Why India’s landmark abortion ruling could echo around the worldOn September 29, the Indian Supreme Court delivered a crucial decision which holds the promise of actually leading to the reproductive autonomy of Indian women, in particular through access to abortion. While the core issue before the court was whether unmarried women could seek an abortion under the law – the judges confirmed that they can – the decision also spoke to a range of deeper concerns about abortion and women’s rights over their bodies. It could potentially even pave the way for the criminalisation of marital rape, which, at the moment, is not punishable in India. Fundamentally, the court did something long overdue: It approached a critical legal question about abortion from the perspective of women’s own experiences, possibly for the first time. And it has set an example that could – and should – echo beyond India. Barriers to abortion, lived experiences of womenCurrently, Indian law allows women to terminate a pregnancy in some circumstances with the approval of a registered medical practitioner. If a woman’s life or health is in serious danger, there’s a significant risk the child could be born with physical or mental abnormalities, or if the pregnancy is because of rape or failed contraceptives, abortion is legal – usually up to 20 weeks of gestation, though abortion is allowed later in exceptional circumstances. However, studies show that women’s ability to access abortion is determined by factors beyond their control, including the availability of abortion services, information and awareness; the prevalent norms of morality in society; economic costs and – most importantly – providers’ attitudes. Women from less-privileged caste and class groups, women with disabilities, transgender and non-binary persons, sex workers, persons living with HIV/AIDS and adolescents face distinctive challenges when it comes to abortion access. In X v NCT of Delhi (PDF), the case the Supreme Court just addressed, the judges acknowledged these barriers by turning to the “lived experiences” of women. Crucially, the decision also takes into account legal barriers to abortion. The circumstances under which abortion is allowed stem from a 1971 law, the Medical Termination of Pregnancy Act, and represent carveouts from a broader ban on abortion that still exists under the Indian Penal Code (IPC). The court referred to the chilling effects of the continuing criminalisation of abortion – wherein the onus is on women to prove and medical practitioners to confirm that the conditions for a legal exemption to the ban are met. More than half a century after the MTP Act was passed, the fear of criminal liability still looms large over service providers. That has led to the proliferation of informal rules or extra-legal conditions such as the requirement of third-party authorisation from courts or government officials, consent of the husband or family, and the insistence that women provide proof of identity, marriage and residence. The court also considered other legal barriers to abortion. For instance, the law on child sexual abuse imposes a mandatory reporting obligation, which deters minors in consensual relationships from seeking a legal abortion. By placing women’s experiences at the centre of its decision-making process on abortion rights, the Indian Supreme Court has sent a clear message to all stakeholders, from the government and doctors to the country’s citizens: Women will be heard. Criminalisation of marital rape... Rest of article here: Why India’s landmark abortion ruling could echo around the world
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Oct 19, 2022 9:37:05 GMT -5
Please consider abortion and the right for a woman to make her own decisions about her body when you vote this fall.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Oct 19, 2022 9:41:24 GMT -5
From earlier this week: Supreme Court declines to hear fetal personhood caseThe Supreme Court declined on Tuesday to wade into the so-called fetal personhood debate, deciding not to take up a case out of Rhode Island over whether fetuses should have constitutional rights. A Catholic group and two pregnant women wanted to sue on behalf of the women’s unborn fetuses, but the Rhode Island Supreme Court – citing Roe v. Wade – said in May that they didn’t have the legal right to bring the case. The challengers urged the Supreme Court to step in and take the case after it overturned Roe in June. But the court declined to do so without comment. “This Court should grant the writ to finally determine whether prenatal life, at any gestational age, enjoys constitutional protection – considering the full and comprehensive history and tradition of our Constitution and law supporting personhood for unborn human beings,” the petitioners wrote in their request for the court to consider the case. The issue of fetal personhood raises complicated questions regarding the rights of fetuses that could impact issues such as in vitro fertilization and child support going forward. Since the court overturned Roe earlier this year, conservative states have enforced bans either restricting the procedure or banning it outright. Supreme Court declines to hear fetal personhood casehe, and Karoline Leavitt (House candidate, also NH) are scarily nuts about this. I've been getting bombarded with NH ads this year, even worse than normal. there's just so much at stake. |
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Oct 19, 2022 10:56:15 GMT -5
New Hampshire GOP Senate Nominee: 'We've Got to Do Something' About In Vitro FertilizationRepublican Senate candidate Don Bolduc signaled that he’s open to limiting in-vitro fertilization, and would support a federal national abortion ban, during a taped conversation by Democratic operatives earlier this week in New Hampshire. “It is a disgusting practice,” Bolduc said of fertility clinics disposing of embryos in audio obtained by Vanity Fair. “I don’t like that practice at all, and I think it’s a separate issue, and we’ve got to do something about it.” Bolduc is running to unseat Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-N.H.), the former governor who flipped the seat in the 2016 election. He’s a typical right-wing kook: Bolduc signed onto a letter with current and former military officers that said Trump won the election “and damn it, I stand by [it],” and also said the question of abortion law “belongs to these gentlemen right here, who are state legislators representing you. That is the best way I think, as a man, that women get the best voice.”On his path toward giving women the best voice, Bolduc told the Democratic operative that he’s open to a federal abortion ban. “Put it this way, I am not going to say no, right?” he said. Then he backtracks. “Cause I have said no, no on an abortion ban at the federal level, but these other things, we’ve got to look into them. I don’t like that practice at all and I think it’s a separate issue and we’ve got to do something about it.” Doing something about IVF and embryo disposal is another stop on the road toward fetal personhood status—something that already exists in Georgia. Bolduc’s hesitancy about one facet of fertility clinics is a part of a bigger play by anti-abortion activists. “Ultimately, we believe that all human life is valuable and deserves our legal protection from that beginning moment of fertilization, whether that occurs through normal means or through IVF,” Rebecca Parma, senior legislative associate with Texas Right to Life, told a local Texas news outlet in July. “And so certainly we want those embryos who are created through the IVF process protected.” Fertility treatments and birth control are the next frontier for anti-abortion activists, particularly in states where abortion has been legislatively discarded. Bolduc, despite presenting himself as a maverick politician who answers to no one in the “Live Free or Die” state, is just another cog in the misogynistic, anti-abortion political machine. New Hampshire GOP Senate Nominee: 'We've Got to Do Something' About In Vitro Fertilization women get the best voice through men? How charming.  |
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Oct 21, 2022 23:24:24 GMT -5
What the hell is happening? How are they going to convince a critical mass that their lives are worse because of birth control.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Oct 22, 2022 9:34:05 GMT -5
What the hell is happening? How are they going to convince a critical mass that their lives are worse because of birth control. Hope and pray they can't but it is terrifying. |
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Oct 22, 2022 12:27:13 GMT -5
What the hell is happening? How are they going to convince a critical mass that their lives are worse because of birth control. They don't need a critical mass. They have already changed laws and allowed old ones to come back to be enforced. Its like their gerrymandering. The vocal minority has been getting its way longer than I know and they are patient in their destruction of the US and protections of the people. |
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 9, 2022 23:33:25 GMT -5
I saw something today that said in India they bill it as a “men’s rights” issue. Do you want to have another mouth to feed? Do you want a special needs kid taking all your money and your wife’s time? Do you want your wife on bed rest or incapacitated or dead and you have to take care of all the kids? If the answer to these questions are ‘no’ then fight for your right to abortions.
I don’t like that it makes it sound like it is a man’s decision, but, That was kinda how my son was thinking 🤷🏼♀️
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 10, 2022 18:55:32 GMT -5
My 11-Year-Old Patient Was Pregnant. Here's What I Want You To Know About Being 'Pro-Life.'"Our medical assistant came to me, panicked, and handed me a positive test. ... 'Run it again,' I sputtered — to buy some time and gather my wits and hope by some miracle it would produce a different result." One morning this past December, I woke up early to listen to judges with lifetime appointments question lawyers in a process that may ultimately rob people of their reproductive freedom. And week after week since then, I continue to hear judges and lawyers and politicians speak on issues they have no business speaking on ― as far away from people and their real lives as voices from another planet. During these moments, I think of a little girl in an exam room I met many years ago. She was my patient. She was 11. We will call her Sophia. It was my first year in practice doing bread-and-butter primary care. Sophia’s mom had brought her in for stomach pain. When I got to her menstrual history, her mom said Sophia had gotten her period but then it had stopped. I reassured her and said sometimes at the start of menstruation, there can be some irregularity and that is not uncommon at all. The mother then left the room and it was just me and Sophia. She was quiet and soft-spoken — a par-for-the-course, awkward adolescent who was uncomfortable interacting with an adult. She answered my questions with one-word responses and didn’t quite know where to look. When I left the room, I heard the booming voice in my head of an ER doctor who had trained me: “Don’t be the ass who doesn’t order the pregnancy test.” This was one of her clinical teaching pearls: Many young docs will order the blood tests, the ultrasound, the CT scans, but skip the most obvious, most basic test and spend tens of thousands of dollars to work up a patient when the “diagnosis” is actually pregnancy. Hence, don’t be the ass who doesn’t order the pregnancy test. So I ordered it. A few minutes later, our medical assistant came to me, panicked, and handed me a positive test. “Run it again,” I asked her, agape. She ran it again. Positive. “Run it again,” I sputtered — to buy some time and gather my wits and hope by some miracle it would produce a different result. Positive. She was my patient. She was 11. She was pregnant. I sat Sophia’s mom down in another room and quietly explained to her that the pregnancy test came back positive. She didn’t understand. I had to repeat myself multiple times in various ways for her to comprehend that Sophia was pregnant. Shock, tears, a cellphone call. Soon a breathless dad showed up, followed by a somber family priest, and then the cops. I remember the adults weeping in a prayer circle in a separate room and the feeling of watching a nightmare unfold, and I had to remind myself that, sometimes, the job is bearing witness to the worst day of someone’s life. I tried in vain to coax the truth of what happened out of Sophia, sitting next to her with a large anatomy atlas flipped open in my lap. She said nothing. I was thankful there was a female police officer that was among the throng at the clinic. It was this officer, when permitted to speak with Sophia, who discovered the identity of the family member that did this awful, unspeakable thing to her. And when the cops left to arrest that relative, they headed to church, because the perpetrator was at choir practice. I recall my focus ― my clear understanding that my only job was to ensure that I was there to protect my patient. That whatever happened, my job was to make sure that at every moment, Sophia was centered, and her mental and physical health were the priority. To make sure that she could find her way, in the midst of this trauma and unspeakable crime, and that her precious life was protected. And part of that included a pregnancy termination. We would make certain she had access to it and was able to get it immediately. There was no question that Sophia’s life mattered and it mattering meant that she would not be forced to give birth at age 11. And she wasn’t. I think about Sophia all the time, especially these days. I think about all the Sophias in clinics like mine, as abortion protections are struck down in state after state ― protections falling like wicked dominoes. I think about the words “except in cases of the life of the mother.” The choice made that evening of the awful revelation was for the life of the mother. A mother that should have never been and thankfully wasn’t. And though it might be easier to build consensus around abortion access for an 11-year-old raped by a family member, the truth is that nobody, anywhere, under any circumstance or in any situation should be forced to give birth. Forced birth should never be a reality. Sophia is in her 20s now. I wonder how she has healed, how she has processed that trauma. Did she get to go to college? Has she been able to trust an intimate partner? Has she been pregnant on her own terms at the time of her choosing? Does she have a child? I can see her wide face and her soft smile in my mind’s eye and I know now, just as I knew then, that the decision to terminate Sophia’s pregnancy, supported by the ones who loved her the most, was a pro-life decision. One of the things my mind conjures up from that horrible day is the feeling that the clinic was crowded. There was Sophia, her mom, then her dad and the priest, and later the cops. There was the crying and the praying and the disbelieving and the believing. I remember how small Sophia looked. Her small face and her small hands and her small hips and how this big, awful thing could happen to someone so small took the wind out of the place. I remember how tiny that clinic room felt. There was no room for politicians signing evil bills flanked by child props as old as Sophia, no room for Supreme Court justices who claim to value life while wondering aloud how pregnancy can be an undue burden. No room for those extraneous, unnecessary, useless others in that most intimate of spaces. Our clinic rooms will always be too small for anybody but providers and our patients. And we will fight for this sacred space, fight for it to be free of cynical politicians and their divisive games. They have never been invited in and we are not about to sit back or stand by while they force their way in. My 11-Year-Old Patient Was Pregnant. Here's What I Want You To Know About Being 'Pro-Life.'
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Nov 10, 2022 19:00:48 GMT -5
I saw something today that said in India they bill it as a “men’s rights” issue. Do you want to have another mouth to feed? Do you want a special needs kid taking all your money and your wife’s time? Do you want your wife on bed rest or incapacitated or dead and you have to take care of all the kids? If the answer to these questions are ‘no’ then fight for your right to abortions. I don’t like that it makes it sound like it is a man’s decision, but, That was kinda how my son was thinking 🤷🏼♀️ I know India isn't the best example of human rights and equality, but this is fucking disgusting. and I can't say more, or I'll break PB rules and get my ass banned. |
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 10, 2022 19:03:53 GMT -5
I keep going back and forth on it.
I think it's absolutely disgusting to frame it as in the man's control.
But having read of many of the issues going on in India perhaps this is an instance where the enemy is my friend if it means making progress vs none at all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2022 17:29:53 GMT -5
I saw something today that said in India they bill it as a “men’s rights” issue. Do you want to have another mouth to feed? Do you want a special needs kid taking all your money and your wife’s time? Do you want your wife on bed rest or incapacitated or dead and you have to take care of all the kids? If the answer to these questions are ‘no’ then fight for your right to abortions. I don’t like that it makes it sound like it is a man’s decision, but, That was kinda how my son was thinking 🤷🏼♀️ I've been to India. I know what awful stuff goes on in the backwaters- menstruating women confined to "huts" where there aren't allowed access to running water, women who have no access to toilets being raped when they use the fields, women having acid thrown in their faces for such "offenses" as having only female babies. But, you know what? I don't have a problem with telling men what's in it for them if their women have the right to terminate a pregnancy. Too many men in the US (and I use that term loosely) contribute half the genetic material and then flee the scene and somehow it's all left to the women, the taxpayers and charities to do what they should have done to help support the child. At least this pitch acknowledges that if a child is born the guy has added responsibility that he may not want. And we do know of some ardently "pro-life" politicians who because pro-choice when the fetus belonged to their mistress. |
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Nov 12, 2022 20:17:16 GMT -5
I would love to see super hard core baby daddy legislation to accompany any further restrictions on abortions. Good for the goose, good for the gander.
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