Roe vs Wade Overturned!

[pulmonarymd]

This is what the voted for. If they want something different, they should make their desires know this November

[tallguy]

Sept 20, 2022 8:22:55 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 1, 2022 21:06:04 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

While the whole article irks me, I'm only quoting part of the article which really irks me.  I have heard of not prosecuting women who get an abortion but prosecuting the doctor from other states which have banned abortion.

Oklahoma AG urges prosecution for performing an abortion

Oklahoma AG urges prosecution for performing an abortion


I have never understood prosecuting only the doctor who performs an abortion but not prosecuting the woman who sought out the doctor to perform the abortion. It is akin to someone paying someone else to murder a third party and punishing only the person who committed the murder but not the person who sought out someone to commit murder and paying them to do so.  Can someone explain to me why these anti-abortion states prosecute only the medical field and not the woman seeking an abortion?

Having said that, I believe a woman has a right to determine what is best for herself.  The state has no business getting in the middle of a woman and her physician.

These male politicians are pushing for women who receive abortions to be punished with prison time

In Texas, five male lawmakers authored a bill last year that would have made getting an abortion punishable by the death penalty if it had gone into law.

I would absolutely support a law that would give the death penalty to any lawmaker who supported any proposal to deny someone else their civil rights.  The list is long.  In no particular order:
1.  Refusal to allow abortion.
2.  Enabling discrimination for any reason.
3.  Enabling voter suppression.
4.  Denying marriage equality.
5.  Denying equal treatment under the law for all persons.
6.  Anything else I can think of that applies.  Remember, it's a long list.

Those who would deny the rights of others to participate in a free society should forfeit their right to live in that society.

[TheOtherMe]

I don't believe in the death penalty, but I would support these lawmakers being ousted from office forever.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 20, 2022 10:50:48 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

I don't believe in the death penalty, but I would support these lawmakers being ousted from office forever.

Unfortunately, there is always another slime bucket waiting in the wings.

[billisonboard]

Sept 20, 2022 13:38:21 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Sept 20, 2022 10:50:48 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

I don't believe in the death penalty, but I would support these lawmakers being ousted from office forever.

Unfortunately, there is always another slime bucket waiting in the wings.

It is up to the electorate to oust and not elect another slime bucket.

[Tennesseer]

Sept 20, 2022 14:44:14 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 20, 2022 13:38:21 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Unfortunately, there is always another slime bucket waiting in the wings.

It is up to the electorate to oust and not elect another slime bucket.

Unless the majority voting are slime buckets too. How do you think Marjorie Taylor Green, and others like her got elected.

[billisonboard]

Sept 20, 2022 15:33:59 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Sept 20, 2022 14:44:14 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

It is up to the electorate to oust and not elect another slime bucket.

Unless the majority voting are slime buckets too. How do you think Marjorie Taylor Green, and others like her got elected.

Representative government can suck.

[Opti]

Sept 20, 2022 8:22:55 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 1, 2022 21:06:04 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

While the whole article irks me, I'm only quoting part of the article which really irks me.  I have heard of not prosecuting women who get an abortion but prosecuting the doctor from other states which have banned abortion.

Oklahoma AG urges prosecution for performing an abortion

Oklahoma AG urges prosecution for performing an abortion


I have never understood prosecuting only the doctor who performs an abortion but not prosecuting the woman who sought out the doctor to perform the abortion. It is akin to someone paying someone else to murder a third party and punishing only the person who committed the murder but not the person who sought out someone to commit murder and paying them to do so.  Can someone explain to me why these anti-abortion states prosecute only the medical field and not the woman seeking an abortion?

Having said that, I believe a woman has a right to determine what is best for herself.  The state has no business getting in the middle of a woman and her physician.

These male politicians are pushing for women who receive abortions to be punished with prison time

In Texas, five male lawmakers authored a bill last year that would have made getting an abortion punishable by the death penalty if it had gone into law.

Horrific. These people obviously have very little understanding of biology and pregnancy. That one guy was OK with the idea of a girl of 13 or less bearing a child to term. And the silliness about trying to save the fetus too before viability is somewhat crazy although in one of my posts, a woman can choose a procedure which has to include a hysterectomy, so there will be no future children if that is chosen to save that fetus.

[chiver78]

Sept 20, 2022 17:52:58 GMT -5 Opti said:

Sept 20, 2022 8:22:55 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

These male politicians are pushing for women who receive abortions to be punished with prison time

In Texas, five male lawmakers authored a bill last year that would have made getting an abortion punishable by the death penalty if it had gone into law.

Horrific. These people obviously have very little understanding of biology and pregnancy. That one guy was OK with the idea of a girl of 13 or less bearing a child to term. And the silliness about trying to save the fetus too before viability is somewhat crazy although in one of my posts, a woman can choose a procedure which has to include a hysterectomy, so there will be no future children if that is chosen to save that fetus.

10. the OH girl was 10.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Sept 20, 2022 18:00:27 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Sept 20, 2022 17:52:58 GMT -5 Opti said:

Horrific. These people obviously have very little understanding of biology and pregnancy. That one guy was OK with the idea of a girl of 13 or less bearing a child to term. And the silliness about trying to save the fetus too before viability is somewhat crazy although in one of my posts, a woman can choose a procedure which has to include a hysterectomy, so there will be no future children if that is chosen to save that fetus.

10. the OH girl was 10.

13 is appalling, 10 is horrific.  None are good, and these are old, white men making decisions they are utterly clueless about.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Sept 20, 2022 17:52:58 GMT -5 Opti said:

Sept 20, 2022 8:22:55 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

These male politicians are pushing for women who receive abortions to be punished with prison time

In Texas, five male lawmakers authored a bill last year that would have made getting an abortion punishable by the death penalty if it had gone into law.

Horrific. These people obviously have very little understanding of biology and pregnancy. That one guy was OK with the idea of a girl of 13 or less bearing a child to term. And the silliness about trying to save the fetus too before viability is somewhat crazy although in one of my posts, a woman can choose a procedure which has to include a hysterectomy, so there will be no future children if that is chosen to save that fetus.

That's still no choice. As punishment she's being sterilized.

Sure it's a choice but when it's that or your life that automatically renders consent useless because DEATH is not an acceptable alternative.

[chiver78]

Sept 20, 2022 18:19:24 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Sept 20, 2022 18:00:27 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

10. the OH girl was 10.

13 is appalling, 10 is horrific.  None are good, and these are old, white men making decisions they are utterly clueless about.

all of it is horrific. no child should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term. *for lack of a better qualifier* no SVU victim should bear shame for their case. bodily autonomy is not a new concept, except to the majority that never considered it...

[tallguy]

Sept 20, 2022 19:28:40 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Sept 20, 2022 18:19:24 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

13 is appalling, 10 is horrific.  None are good, and these are old, white men making decisions they are utterly clueless about.

all of it is horrific. no child should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term. *for lack of a better qualifier* no SVU victim should bear shame for their case. bodily autonomy is not a new concept, except to the majority that never considered it...

Some of these stories run together, and it is at times difficult to keep the details straight between them, but was this the same case where it was ruled that she was going to be required to carry to term because she was not old enough or mature enough to decide to abort the pregnancy?  Makes perfect sense to have someone not mature enough to make that decision be forced to carry and have the baby, doesn't it?  Because how could that possibly turn out badly?   

[TheOtherMe]

Yes tallguy  

I'm so tired of old white men running this country and this state.  

What would they do if it was there great or great great granddaughter?  Find a place where it's legal and pay hush money.

[Opti]

Sept 20, 2022 19:56:14 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Yes tallguy   

I'm so tired of old white men running this country and this state.  

What would they do if it was there great or great great granddaughter?  Find a place where it's legal and pay hush money.

I think you give them too much credit. Some would be OK with them dying or being unhealthy the rest of their lives. 

[chiver78]

Sept 20, 2022 19:46:13 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Sept 20, 2022 19:28:40 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

all of it is horrific. no child should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term. *for lack of a better qualifier* no SVU victim should bear shame for their case. bodily autonomy is not a new concept, except to the majority that never considered it...

Some of these stories run together, and it is at times difficult to keep the details straight between them, but was this the same case where it was ruled that she was going to be required to carry to term because she was not old enough or mature enough to decide to abort the pregnancy?  Makes perfect sense to have someone not mature enough to make that decision be forced to carry and have the baby, doesn't it?  Because how could that possibly turn out badly?   

no, the 10yo missed the cutoff by a week (thanks, trigger laws) and had to leave the state to get an abortion. she's from Ohio.

[daisylu]

Sept 20, 2022 19:46:13 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Sept 20, 2022 19:28:40 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

all of it is horrific. no child should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term. *for lack of a better qualifier* no SVU victim should bear shame for their case. bodily autonomy is not a new concept, except to the majority that never considered it...

Some of these stories run together, and it is at times difficult to keep the details straight between them, but was this the same case where it was ruled that she was going to be required to carry to term because she was not old enough or mature enough to decide to abort the pregnancy?  Makes perfect sense to have someone not mature enough to make that decision be forced to carry and have the baby, doesn't it?  Because how could that possibly turn out badly?   

I think that girl was in Florida. She was being raised by an aunt, and the court refused her abortion request because she "lacked the maturity" to make her case.  I have so much more to say about that, but leave it with an   .

[pulmonarymd]

The irony that she isn't too immature to continue with everything a pregnancy entails and possibly raise a child escapes them

[scgal]

Sept 21, 2022 7:56:08 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

The irony that she isn't too immature to continue with everything a pregnancy entails and possibly raise a child escapes them

This is where is do feel like a hypocrite. I'm so against abortion but I don't think its right for a child to carry a baby either. 

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 21, 2022 9:18:57 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 21, 2022 7:56:08 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

The irony that she isn't too immature to continue with everything a pregnancy entails and possibly raise a child escapes them

This is where is do feel like a hypocrite. I'm so against abortion but I don't think its right for a child to carry a baby either. 

So maybe we should kep it legal so we do not wind up in these impossible situations. You know, let people make the best decision for themselves

[giramomma]

Sept 21, 2022 9:18:57 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 21, 2022 7:56:08 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

The irony that she isn't too immature to continue with everything a pregnancy entails and possibly raise a child escapes them

This is where is do feel like a hypocrite. I'm so against abortion but I don't think its right for a child to carry a baby either. 

But clearly, you are more comfortable with forcing a child who has undergone a trauma to carry the baby to term.

So, probably not the hypocrite you think you are?

It seems like the grey/fuzzy areas just aren't enough to make you change your mind.

But, then, I think you should own it.

"Aborting and forcing a child to carry a baby to term are both bad choices. But, to me, bottom line, the abortion is the worst option. Therefore, I am against abortion, because that's what I can personally live with"

If you feel like a hypocrite, than donate your time and money to organizations that help victims of sex crimes? Might be a nice way to "make amends."

[scgal]

Sept 21, 2022 9:27:36 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Sept 21, 2022 9:18:57 GMT -5 scgal said:

This is where is do feel like a hypocrite. I'm so against abortion but I don't think its right for a child to carry a baby either. 

But clearly, you are more comfortable with forcing a child who has undergone a trauma to carry the baby to term.

So, probably not the hypocrite you think you are?

It seems like the grey/fuzzy areas just aren't enough to make you change your mind.

But, then, I think you should own it.

"Aborting and forcing a child to carry a baby to term are both bad choices. But, to me, bottom line, the abortion is the worst option. Therefore, I am against abortion, because that's what I can personally live with"

If you feel like a hypocrite, than donate your time and money to organizations that help victims of sex crimes? Might be a nice way to "make amends."

I already do. I have been working with a battered women for years most of them is rape. I work with 2 different county dss offices as a domestic violence counselors. 

FWIW this is something I do in my spare time it is not my job. I don't think I need to make amends for anything

[giramomma]

Sept 21, 2022 9:39:35 GMT -5 scgal said:

Sept 21, 2022 9:27:36 GMT -5 giramomma said:

But clearly, you are more comfortable with forcing a child who has undergone a trauma to carry the baby to term.

So, probably not the hypocrite you think you are?

It seems like the grey/fuzzy areas just aren't enough to make you change your mind.

But, then, I think you should own it.

"Aborting and forcing a child to carry a baby to term are both bad choices. But, to me, bottom line, the abortion is the worst option. Therefore, I am against abortion, because that's what I can personally live with"

If you feel like a hypocrite, than donate your time and money to organizations that help victims of sex crimes? Might be a nice way to "make amends."

I already do. I have been working with a battered women for years most of them is rape. I work with 2 different county dss offices as a domestic violence counselors. 

FWIW this is something I do in my spare time it is not my job. I don't think I need to make amends for anything

Cool. Then just own that abortion is the worst choice at all costs in your opinion.  No need to feel like a hypocrite or even bring up that you think you might be one. Or feel like one.

[NastyWoman]

Sept 21, 2022 9:40:59 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Sept 21, 2022 9:39:35 GMT -5 scgal said:

I already do. I have been working with a battered women for years most of them is rape. I work with 2 different county dss offices as a domestic violence counselors. 

FWIW this is something I do in my spare time it is not my job. I don't think I need to make amends for anything

Cool. Then just own that abortion is the worst choice at all costs in your opinion.  No need to feel like a hypocrite or even bring up that you think you might be one. Or feel like one.

I am not so sure I am cool with this given her extreme positin on abortion and the women (abused and "most of them is rape") she works with. IMO these women deserve people with more empathy. I hope that I am wrong in my assessment but I fear I am not.

[Opti]

One in 4 women in the U.S. will have an abortion at some point in their life, which leads many health experts to argue abortion should be treated as part of the spectrum of health care women may need at some point.


www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/1-in-3-women-will-consider-ending-pregnancy-on-their-own-if-abortion-is-out-of-reach/ar-AA128irl?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=95329d1d3fad41aeaf3c9b48c49294aa

I'm guessing this figure includes what us often called by non-medical professionals , miscarriages.

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 22, 2022 21:48:26 GMT -5 Opti said:

One in 4 women in the U.S. will have an abortion at some point in their life, which leads many health experts to argue abortion should be treated as part of the spectrum of health care women may need at some point.


www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/1-in-3-women-will-consider-ending-pregnancy-on-their-own-if-abortion-is-out-of-reach/ar-AA128irl?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=95329d1d3fad41aeaf3c9b48c49294aa

I'm guessing this figure includes what us often called by non-medical professionals , miscarriages.

Doubt that. Miscarriages are at least 25% of all pregnancies, so I think that is just surgical abortions. There were over 1 million abortions a year at the peak.

[djAdvocate]

not sure if this is on topic, but there has been about a 10% shift in partisan bias since we started this thread, in favor of Democrats.  that has not translated to polling yet in specific races, and i don't even expect Democrats to win the House.  HOWEVER.....

in June, i would have said the Democrats odds of winning the House were maybe 10%.  it was not going to be a massive defeat, but the GOP was going to be up by probably 40 seats (the Democrats are up by about 10 right now).  now, not even three months later, i would put the odds closer to 30%, and the GOP is going to win by something in the teens, in terms of seats.  if there were THREE months left before the election, i would say that the Democrats had a GOOD shot.  as it is, i will simply say they have a CHANCE.

since late June, Democrats have gone from -2.4% to +1.9%.  at this rate, they might conceivably be +4% nationally by election day. IF THEY DO THAT, they will win back the House, and probably by a similar margin to 2020.  but in order for that to happen, things have to keep going right for them.  nothing major pushing back the other way.  inflation has to continue to ease, employment has to continue to soar, and the J6 commission has to continue making Trump look like the devil he is.  

NOTE: again, i don't EXPECT Democrats to win.  but they have a shot.  and i would most definitely have NOT said that back in June.

[Opti]

Sept 22, 2022 21:56:15 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Sept 22, 2022 21:48:26 GMT -5 Opti said:

One in 4 women in the U.S. will have an abortion at some point in their life, which leads many health experts to argue abortion should be treated as part of the spectrum of health care women may need at some point.


www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/1-in-3-women-will-consider-ending-pregnancy-on-their-own-if-abortion-is-out-of-reach/ar-AA128irl?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=95329d1d3fad41aeaf3c9b48c49294aa

I'm guessing this figure includes what us often called by non-medical professionals , miscarriages.

Doubt that. Miscarriages are at least 25% of all pregnancies, so I think that is just surgical abortions. There were over 1 million abortions a year at the peak.

OK. The problem I have with the self-righteous posturing politicians and some of their supporters is they act as if all those abortions were of viable babies. They couldn't be. I think its good most abortions recently have been in the first 4 weeks with the pills. No way to know if an implantation would have been successful, and it seems the best time to do something if a child is not wanted.

The pro forced birth people do not seem to realize that many of the later abortions are for children that were wanted but are dead, dying, or highly likely to die at birth or before. Preventing these types of abortions only increases maternal death rate and does nothing to "save" a fetus. 

[pulmonarymd]

Sept 23, 2022 6:52:13 GMT -5 Opti said:

Sept 22, 2022 21:56:15 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Doubt that. Miscarriages are at least 25% of all pregnancies, so I think that is just surgical abortions. There were over 1 million abortions a year at the peak.

OK. The problem I have with the self-righteous posturing politicians and some of their supporters is they act as if all those abortions were of viable babies. They couldn't be. I think its good most abortions recently have been in the first 4 weeks with the pills. No way to know if an implantation would have been successful, and it seems the best time to do something if a child is not wanted.

The pro forced birth people do not seem to realize that many of the later abortions are for children that were wanted but are dead, dying, or highly likely to die at birth or before. Preventing these types of abortions only increases maternal death rate and does nothing to "save" a fetus. 

Facts are inconvenient. They detract from the message they are trying to send, and highlight the cruelty of their position. It is easier to focus on the women who is having her 5th abortion than the 12 yo who was impregnated by her uncle or the women who underwent an ultrasound at 16 weeks and found that her fetus had anencephaly. They are now facing that head on and they do not like the results and want to change the subject

[Deleted]

Yep, it's happening.

www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/she-was-forced-to-travel-1-400-miles-to-abort-a-skull-less-fetus-now-she-has-a-message-for-lawmakers/ar-AA11SSX7?cvid=363c01d77e594682a2279479dbf2678b

A Louisiana woman pregnant whose fetus had no skull ("acrania"), meaning that if carried to term the baby would die within a week, couldn't get an abortion in her state. She raised money through a GoFundMe to go to NYC. The legislator who sponsored the bill outlawing abortion in LA claimed that it would have been permitted- but the law did not list acrania as an exception and naturally the docs erred on the side of caution.