Roe vs Wade Overturned!

[giramomma]

Jul 10, 2022 17:05:18 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Wait till tax season.  Someone will try to claim their unborn child on their tax return.

Logically, that makes a lot of sense. Embryos and fetuses are dependents.

ETA: It's easier to buy that the unborn are dependents than it is that businesses are people in some circumstances...

[chiver78]

Jul 10, 2022 17:05:18 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Wait till tax season.  Someone will try to claim their unborn child on their tax return.

my parents actually did.   my sister was born by planned C-section on 4/15/82. and she was listed on their 1981 tax return. 

[Deleted]

Jul 10, 2022 17:14:54 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Jul 10, 2022 17:05:18 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Wait till tax season.  Someone will try to claim their unborn child on their tax return.

my parents actually did.   my sister was born by planned C-section on 4/15/82. and she was listed on their 1981 tax return. 

[chiver78]

Jul 10, 2022 17:56:15 GMT -5 soupandstew said:

Jul 10, 2022 17:14:54 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

my parents actually did.   my sister was born by planned C-section on 4/15/82. and she was listed on their 1981 tax return. 

eh. this is family lore, which likely means it's a crock of shit. if, yanno, the rest of the things I've discovered as an adult are any reliable metric. 🤷‍♀️. but it's a fun story I grew up with.

[Deleted]

Jul 10, 2022 17:56:15 GMT -5 soupandstew said:

Jul 10, 2022 17:14:54 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

my parents actually did.   my sister was born by planned C-section on 4/15/82. and she was listed on their 1981 tax return. 

And this is just on little part of the fun to come as the courts debate and decide what "life at fertilization" means.  Big impact on tax code for sure.   This leads me to wonder what the other end of the spectrum will be.  If we are debating when life begins, when does life end?  Heartbeat?  Brain death?  As a senior, I am perhaps more personally invested in this than the beginning of life discussion.

[NastyWoman]

Maybe someone can copy a bit of text from this article for me. But if passed it would be a wonderfully ironic "unintended" side effect of the no abortions laws.

news.yahoo.com/democratic-bill-allowing-people-sue-154912251.html

[saveinla]

Jul 10, 2022 18:24:47 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Maybe someone can copy a bit of text from this article for me. But if passed it would be a wonderfully ironic "unintended" side effect of the no abortions laws.

news.yahoo.com/democratic-bill-allowing-people-sue-154912251.html

An Ohio Democrat has proposed legislation that would allow people to sue someone who impregnated them.

The bill has been proposed as Ohio bans abortion after six weeks of pregnancy in light of Roe v. Wade's repeal.

Aaron Baer, President of the Center for Christian Virtue, says it will tackle "hook-up culture" and hold "deadbeat dads" to account.

An Ohio Democrat has proposed legislation allowing pregnant people to sue the person who impregnated them, regardless of whether the sex in question was consensual or not.

Senator Tina Maharath has proposed the bill in light of the US Supreme Court repealing Roe v. Wade, which triggered a bill in Ohio that bans abortions after six weeks.

The bill would allow "any person may bring a civil action against another person who" either "causes the person to have an unintended pregnancy, regardless of the circumstances" or "aids or abets any other person in causing the person to have an unintended pregnancy, regardless of the circumstances."

In a statement, Maharath said, "Regardless of the circumstances. I felt it was important to have that vague language due to the fact that abortion is now banned here in the state of Ohio."

[justme]

Jul 10, 2022 17:05:18 GMT -5 bean29 said:

Wait till tax season.  Someone will try to claim their unborn child on their tax return.

I'm waiting for someone who is pregnant in those states whose baby daddy drops them applying for child support. If the state says this is a child you best start paying for it including half of its health bills.

[TheOtherMe]

We were discussing the tax status of a fetus today and we came to the conclusion with this line of thought, they should be taken as dependents, etc.

We also talked about when was conception?  Some women don't know they are pregnant until they are giving birth.  

My nephew also said it was his understanding that at the time new parents are listening to the heartbeat, the heart is not yet formed.  I have no idea if that is correct.

My US House representative got taken to task by the newspaper for her inconsistency on voting no on any kind of financial help for mothers and children and her pro-life stance.  Her response was that her religion requires her to be pro-life and how she will protect "unbirthed children".

[giramomma]

Jul 10, 2022 18:52:42 GMT -5 saveinla said:

The bill would allow "any person may bring a civil action against another person who" either "causes the person to have an unintended pregnancy, regardless of the circumstances" or "aids or abets any other person in causing the person to have an unintended pregnancy, regardless of the circumstances."

Well, goodness. How far do they want to take this?

Dick and Jane have been dating for a few  months and decide its time to have sex.

On the date they stop at Lucky's bar for a few drinks.

They go back to Dick's and consummate the relationship.

Now, Dick is pragmatic, so he had already stopped at CVS to get some condoms.

Dick's condom breaks while they DTD.

Jane gets pregnant, but doesn't want to have the baby.

The online dictionary tells me that aid and abet means "To order, encourage, facilitate"

So, does Lucky's owner, and the bartender and/or server could be exposed for a civil action. The argument could be made that providing a few drinks could caused impaired judgement and  facilitated the unintended pregnancy.

The poor person working the registers at CVS could then have action taken against them, because they sold Dick a faulty condom. That is  facilitating an unintended pregnancy..

(But, now I'm intrigued, what if Dick does Drive Up? Or Buys his condoms from Target and uses Shipt? Are Shipt workers now open to civil actions against them because they were party to someone having an unintended pregnancy, because they delivered the faulty condoms to Dick?)

Trojan themselves? One could argue that Trojan is encouraging and facilitating unintended pregnancy due to faulty products.

Here's another fun scenario.

Peter the Cheater is having an office romance with Super Sally. Peter the Cheater's wife does not know.

As it turns out, Super Sally gets knocked up. But she doesn't want the kid.

Peter has three colleagues, Mo, Larry, and Curly, who know about Peter and Sally. In fact, they cover for Peter the Cheater when he and Sally have their dally.

Does this mean Mo, Larry, and Curly can be sued as well, for aiding and abetting an unintended pregnancy?

[giramomma]

Oh, I have another one.

I have three girls. Let's say DD1 gets serious with someone and has an unintended pregnancy. It's all when everyone is age of consent.

DD1 gets knocked up at her boyfriends house. Does that mean we get to sue her boyfriend's parents?

Kids have sex at the high school, during school hours. One could argue that poor teacher supervision could facilitate unintended pregnancy. So, do you go after the school district? The school board? The teachers themselves? Just think of how we could already make our ill funded high schools use what ever resources might be left on civil law suits. There's no money for anything past an 8th grade education, all the better!

Maybe the lawmaker proposing this bill is majority owner in a company that makes chastity belts?

[NastyWoman]

Jul 10, 2022 21:08:33 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Oh, I have another one.

I have three girls. Let's say DD1 gets serious with someone and has an unintended pregnancy. It's all when everyone is age of consent.

DD1 gets knocked up at her boyfriends house. Does that mean we get to sue her boyfriend's parents?

Kids have sex at the high school, during school hours. One could argue that poor teacher supervision could facilitate unintended pregnancy. So, do you go after the school district? The school board? The teachers themselves? Just think of how we could already make our ill funded high schools use what ever resources might be left on civil law suits. There's no money for anything past an 8th grade education, all the better!

Maybe the lawmaker proposing this bill is majority owner in a company that makes chastity belts?

Isn't this fun? We were talking about not really understanding what these all or nothing laws can trigger 

[raeoflyte]

At least it's something that might make people decide forced birthing isn't a good idea.

[djAdvocate]

well, they are pretty clearly dependent

[NastyWoman]

Meanwhile in Texas the circus train has left the station...

people.com/health/pregnant-texas-woman-contests-hov-ticket-fetus-passenger-roe-v-wade/

Now a person is defined as "outside the body" by police - in other words - nothing about a "heart beat" in a couple of cells-> you have to be born first to born to count. Who would've thought that is an actual valid concept 

[TheOtherMe]

That's only for the HOV lane.  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jul 10, 2022 22:18:24 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

At least it's something that might make people decide forced birthing isn't a good idea.

There really are very few ways to get the other party on the hook for pregnancy.  Maybe this might make men think twice.  I don't think it's a smart idea but that it has been suggested might get some of them to look down and register she can't get pregnant without me sticking my dick in it.

It's not going to stop the ones in charge who can just send their daughters/wives/mistress on a plane to go get one in another country.  But maybe it will get some of those men who haven't ever really stopped to think about to actually think about the fact that this is not just a "women problem" and get political.

[justme]

http://instagram.com/p/Cf4eN35vJEo

Snort

Did it embed? If not it says "we'll see how you feel about abortion after I fuck your husband"

[chiver78]

lol....I see it, even with my firewalled laptop that blocks a bunch of stuff. 

[Deleted]

Absolutely can see it and love it too!

[giramomma]

The thing that kills me is that hook up culture is bad, but cheating on your spouse in marriage is OK.

DH and I were chatting about something else..somewhat related..

Even my MIL, who is pretty awesome...will get a little judgy if a couple has an unplanned kid before marriage. But, the fact that DH and I had an unplanned kid after marriage...that's perfectly fine.

I mean. Let's be honest, for DH and I, it's totally judgy material that we had the missy.

[jerseygirl]

US health dept says doctors must offer abortion if mother’s life at stake, gives examples, eg ectopic pregnancy

Similar to other emergency treatments. Doctors not liable even in states with bans


www.reuters.com/

[chiver78]

Jul 11, 2022 19:36:07 GMT -5 giramomma said:

The thing that kills me is that hook up culture is bad, but cheating on your spouse in marriage if you're rich is OK.

DH and I were chatting about something else..somewhat related..

Even my MIL, who is pretty awesome...will get a little judgy if a couple has an unplanned kid before marriage. But, the fact that DH and I had an unplanned kid after marriage...that's perfectly fine.

I mean. Let's be honest, for DH and I, it's totally judgy material that we had the missy.

I FTFY. if you're rich, the rules don't apply. and if you're not, then you're judged no matter what you do. so it's not just that. 

[chiver78]

Jul 11, 2022 19:49:49 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

US health dept says doctors must offer abortion if mother’s life at stake, gives examples, eg ectopic pregnancy

Similar to other emergency treatments. Doctors not liable even in states with bans


www.reuters.com/

welcome back, I know you were just sailing. why is there a qualifier for a woman to make a medical decision about her own body? and who determines who is on the approval board for that sort of thing? why isn't a medical procedure the scope of discussions between a woman and her doctor? I thought death panels were a Republican scare tactic, not a Republican-forced reality. 

[pulmonarymd]

Jul 11, 2022 19:49:49 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

US health dept says doctors must offer abortion if mother’s life at stake, gives examples, eg ectopic pregnancy

Similar to other emergency treatments. Doctors not liable even in states with bans


www.reuters.com/

That has no legal bearing. The states decide state law, not the federal government, since this reverted to the states. I would depend on the hospital counsel to offer their opinion

[jerseygirl]

Thinking the Reuters article refers to requiring treatment by hospitals (ERs?) to stabilize a patient. Similar to requiring ER to give treatment for heart attack even if patient has no insurance and indigent. Stabilizing a woman coming into ER with ruptured ectopic pregnancy doesn’t mean giving her aspirin
br]
Maybe no liability for doctor similar to Good Samaritan treatment?
Anyway thought article is helpful sign for future

[pulmonarymd]

I wouldn’t care about liability. I would care about going to jail. You are thinking about EMTALA. That law requires stabilizing a patient. It does not give you cover for performance of an illegal procedure. Just like it does not give you cover if you perform a life saving procedure if a competent patient refuses it. You could be charged with assault.

If abortion is illegal, and there is not clear guidance about these situations, doing what a prosecutor thinks is an abortion could result in your arrest

[djAdvocate]

q: how does one distinguish between a medical abortion and a miscarriage?

[pulmonarymd]

Jul 11, 2022 21:09:43 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

q: how does one distinguish between a medical abortion and a miscarriage?

You can’t

[djAdvocate]

no further questions.