Here we go again. 19 children & 2 teachers dead

[justme]

May 27, 2022 11:36:02 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 27, 2022 11:22:40 GMT -5 justme said:

For sure. But even if you think that having the gun is a right, there's no logical explanation for anyone to need that much ammo except someone planning on killing people. As that Chris Rock quip goes - guns don't kill people bullets kill people. Mass shootings will be severely limited if you can only by 30 rounds.

I also kinda wanna be like the amendment says arms. It makes no mention if ammunition. You get 20 bullets at a time and can only buy more equal to the amount of shells you bring in.

my approach has always been the opposite of this.

if i have the right to bear arms, i want anti-aircraft weapons.

I mean if we're going big I want the guns the F16 has...and I'll just deal with having the F16 attached to them.

[weltschmerz]

May 26, 2022 22:34:23 GMT -5 justme said:

May 26, 2022 22:29:26 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I am not seeing how this would work logistically. Groups of students would have been barricaded in place and there would have been no way to access a group to extract one child.

I am guessing that there might have been a time immediately after the shooter was killed that cops on the scene could have had the opportunity to find that their child was not one of the victims before other parents were able to verify if their kid was safe. I can see how it would have helped them focus on their difficult job so am not horrified if it happened.

I admit I'm going off tweets I saw... here's the tweet. I believe replies have the video, but admittedly I didn't thoroughly research.

Ok watched video interview... it's not an outright yea they did that, but it also sounds like some did? Not that explicit.

I wouldn't put much stock in tweets.   After all, a Congressman tweeted that the shooter was a transexual illegal alien.

[justme]

May 27, 2022 11:57:09 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

May 26, 2022 22:34:23 GMT -5 justme said:

I admit I'm going off tweets I saw... here's the tweet. I believe replies have the video, but admittedly I didn't thoroughly research.

Ok watched video interview... it's not an outright yea they did that, but it also sounds like some did? Not that explicit.

I wouldn't put much stock in tweets.   After all, a Congressman tweeted that the shooter was a transexual illegal alien.

Well there's a video in the comments that the tweet was based on.

[hurley1980]

May 27, 2022 11:54:08 GMT -5 justme said:

May 27, 2022 11:36:02 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

my approach has always been the opposite of this.

if i have the right to bear arms, i want anti-aircraft weapons.

I mean if we're going big I want the guns the F16 has...and I'll just deal with having the F16 attached to them.

Can I buy a Jewish space laser?  That seems like a pretty sweet weapon!

[hurley1980]

May 26, 2022 20:26:58 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

the real question is that do we want our kids living in a terror state?

i mean, REALLY, SERIOUSLY, it is safer to send your kids to school in FUCKING GAZA than it is in many places in the US.  

aren't you tired of it, America?  are you really that lost in the fog of terror that it has become "just the way things are"?

This.  SOOOOO this!

From outsiders looking in, America is as dangerous of a place to raise your kids as the middle east.  And for us adults, we live in a war zone, but are just too stupid to see it.  I have family in Australia, and they constantly worry for our safety here, because it is not safe to go anywhere without the threat of being shot and killed.  We are a third world country in the midst of a civil war. America, Fuck Yeah!

[scgal]

May 27, 2022 11:38:40 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 27, 2022 11:25:15 GMT -5 movingforward said:

So just random personal thoughts here...I am not looking for anyone to agree or disagree. I'm just using the board to help me process things running through my head.

I am an atheist so I look at things more in a scientific way. Our brains are complex and the inner workings are still a mystery in many ways. Some are born without empathy, some get off on hurting others, some are easily influenced, easily angered, violent, etc. Some are products of their upbringing. Then for whatever reason we have people that live amongst us that are just evil and shouldn't be allowed around other human beings. I just recently what the Wayne Gracy documentary on Netflix. Yowza...what an evil bastard he was...

Anyway, the more I think about it the more I'm not so sure this is a "new" problem. Throughout history we have always had people that, for whatever reason, do horrible things. Women used to be burned at the stake, people were actually bought and sold as property, Hitler convinced a large group of people to follow him, cult leaders have convinced large groups of people to off themselves. You get the picture...

So the more I try to process this, the more it really does become a gun control issue for me. The concept that every individual has the right to purchase a gun is baffling on so many levels. The fact that we are just accepting mass shootings is absolutely outrageous.

Okay, random rambling is over...

i agree.  the mental health issues have always been there.
but let's consider the mental health of America -vs- other countries for a second.
why are we so sick?  i think there are answers to that.  not pleasant ones, but answers.

When I said mental health is the issue I think I should have said the mental state they are in at the time. I also would like to know why we are so sick, but I doubt owning guns are the reason. 

There were just over 19k homicides in 2020 and 38000 traffic deaths. I know I know the gun allows the assailant the ability to kill many at a time. A assailant can drive thru a playground and do just about as much carnage. I posted before I'm all about more through background checks. Nobody should tell me that I can't have my AR12 or AR15 or any of the 43 other firearms we have.

[billisonboard]

May 27, 2022 12:38:09 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 27, 2022 11:38:40 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i agree.  the mental health issues have always been there.
but let's consider the mental health of America -vs- other countries for a second.
why are we so sick?  i think there are answers to that.  not pleasant ones, but answers.

When I said mental health is the issue I think I should have said the mental state they are in at the time. I also would like to know why we are so sick, but I doubt owning guns are the reason. 

There were just over 19k homicides in 2020 and 38000 traffic deaths. I know I know the gun allows the assailant the ability to kill many at a time. A assailant can drive thru a playground and do just about as much carnage. I posted before I'm all about more through background checks. Nobody should tell me that I can't have my AR12 or AR15 or any of the 43 other firearms we have.

Nobody should tell nobody they can't have ... And if they try ...

Merica

[hurley1980]

May 27, 2022 12:38:09 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 27, 2022 11:38:40 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i agree.  the mental health issues have always been there.
but let's consider the mental health of America -vs- other countries for a second.
why are we so sick?  i think there are answers to that.  not pleasant ones, but answers.

When I said mental health is the issue I think I should have said the mental state they are in at the time. I also would like to know why we are so sick, but I doubt owning guns are the reason. 

There were just over 19k homicides in 2020 and 38000 traffic deaths. I know I know the gun allows the assailant the ability to kill many at a time. A assailant can drive thru a playground and do just about as much carnage. I posted before I'm all about more through background checks. Nobody should tell me that I can't have my AR12 or AR15 or any of the 43 other firearms we have.

Why the fuck do you need 43 firearms??  What is so wrong in your life that you need that many weapons?  

[pulmonarymd]

Sure we can. We restrict freedoms all the time. There is no divine right to own any weapon. The second amendment isn't absolute, just like the first amendment isn't absolute.

If we are concerned that mental health is an issue, how about we require a mental health evaluation before we allow a gun purchase and every 2-4 years thereafter. If republicans are so certain that is the cause, they should have no problem with that. But, the common element is guns. No guns, no gun deaths. I also like how you glossed over the suicide deaths from firearms. I guess those do not count.
.

[pulmonarymd]

I would like scgal to explain why we can tell people they cannot use drugs, but we can't tell her she cannot own guns. Everyone wants different freedoms

[scgal]

May 27, 2022 12:47:12 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

May 27, 2022 12:38:09 GMT -5 scgal said:

When I said mental health is the issue I think I should have said the mental state they are in at the time. I also would like to know why we are so sick, but I doubt owning guns are the reason. 

There were just over 19k homicides in 2020 and 38000 traffic deaths. I know I know the gun allows the assailant the ability to kill many at a time. A assailant can drive thru a playground and do just about as much carnage. I posted before I'm all about more through background checks. Nobody should tell me that I can't have my AR12 or AR15 or any of the 43 other firearms we have.

Why the fuck do you need 43 firearms??  What is so wrong in your life that you need that many weapons?  

Nothing is wrong with my life it is good. I think around a third of those are collectables (I'd have to ask my husband) the rest we use hunting, skeet shooting, range shooting. There are other reasons to have a firearm than just for protection. A day at the range with the AR15 is a lot of fun. Most people who are against firearms cannot fathom it though

[hurley1980]

May 27, 2022 12:52:34 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 27, 2022 12:47:12 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Why the fuck do you need 43 firearms??  What is so wrong in your life that you need that many weapons?  

Nothing is wrong with my life it is good. I think around a third of those are collectables (I'd have to ask my husband) the rest we use hunting, skeet shooting, range shooting. There are other reasons to have a firearm than just for protection. A day at the range with the AR15 is a lot of fun. Most people who are against firearms cannot fathom it though

Blowing stuff up is fun too, but I'm still against bombs. And I'm not against firearms, I'm against the ones that can mow down 19 children and 2 adults in a matter of minutes.  You should be too!

[weltschmerz]

May 27, 2022 12:47:12 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

May 27, 2022 12:38:09 GMT -5 scgal said:

When I said mental health is the issue I think I should have said the mental state they are in at the time. I also would like to know why we are so sick, but I doubt owning guns are the reason. 

There were just over 19k homicides in 2020 and 38000 traffic deaths. I know I know the gun allows the assailant the ability to kill many at a time. A assailant can drive thru a playground and do just about as much carnage. I posted before I'm all about more through background checks. Nobody should tell me that I can't have my AR12 or AR15 or any of the 43 other firearms we have.

Why the fuck do you need 43 firearms??  What is so wrong in your life that you need that many weapons?  

Deep-seated fear and paranoia?

[billisonboard]

May 27, 2022 12:52:34 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 27, 2022 12:47:12 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Why the fuck do you need 43 firearms??  What is so wrong in your life that you need that many weapons?  

Nothing is wrong with my life it is good. I think around a third of those are collectables (I'd have to ask my husband) the rest we use hunting, skeet shooting, range shooting. There are other reasons to have a firearm than just for protection. A day at the range with the AR15 is a lot of fun. Most people who are against firearms cannot fathom it though

I bet it is fun. And having such a weapon stored in a gun safe at the range and accessible to an owner who is licensed to use it there when they wish should be allowed.

[pulmonarymd]

I am sure it is fun. But like everything else, it is a risk benefit calculation. There is little benefit to society for a layperson to own an AR15. We see what the risk is. I would have no problem with someone going to a range and renting one for the time they are there to shoot. Knock yourself out. I have major problems with someone owning what is a military weapon designed to inflict significant casualties in a short period of time. Texas has many gun owners. Yet over 20 people are dead because someone with a grudge had the ability to buy that weapon with little regulation

[djAdvocate]

May 27, 2022 11:43:20 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 27, 2022 11:36:02 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

my approach has always been the opposite of this.

if i have the right to bear arms, i want anti-aircraft weapons.

And I want some anti-tank weapons, I mean, being necessary to the security of a free State and all.

exactly.  we got to protect and defend.  

[raeoflyte]

May 27, 2022 12:38:09 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 27, 2022 11:38:40 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i agree.  the mental health issues have always been there.
but let's consider the mental health of America -vs- other countries for a second.
why are we so sick?  i think there are answers to that.  not pleasant ones, but answers.

When I said mental health is the issue I think I should have said the mental state they are in at the time. I also would like to know why we are so sick, but I doubt owning guns are the reason. 

There were just over 19k homicides in 2020 and 38000 traffic deaths. I know I know the gun allows the assailant the ability to kill many at a time. A assailant can drive thru a playground and do just about as much carnage. I posted before I'm all about more through background checks. Nobody should tell me that I can't have my AR12 or AR15 or any of the 43 other firearms we have.

But it's OK to outlaw abortions? Are you fucking kidding me?? Owning assault rifles meant for military use (meaning mass murder) is a right but healthcare isn't?

How old are your kids? How can you watch this bullshit and bring up your rights? Have your kids ever been in lock down? Known any kids in an actual school shooting? Guns and ammo found at your kids school during class??? My answer to all of those is yes. I don't care at all about your "rights" to own assault rifles. Those rights are killing children. Actual living, breathing, functional children.

[djAdvocate]

May 27, 2022 12:38:09 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 27, 2022 11:38:40 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i agree.  the mental health issues have always been there.
but let's consider the mental health of America -vs- other countries for a second.
why are we so sick?  i think there are answers to that.  not pleasant ones, but answers.

When I said mental health is the issue I think I should have said the mental state they are in at the time. I also would like to know why we are so sick, but I doubt owning guns are the reason. 

i never said it was.  in fact, i think that is absurd.  owning something doesn't make a person mentally ill.  

but you don't give a drunk driver 43 range rovers, scgal.  you take his goddamn keys away.

[weltschmerz]

May 27, 2022 12:52:34 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 27, 2022 12:47:12 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Why the fuck do you need 43 firearms??  What is so wrong in your life that you need that many weapons?  

Nothing is wrong with my life it is good. I think around a third of those are collectables (I'd have to ask my husband) the rest we use hunting, skeet shooting, range shooting. There are other reasons to have a firearm than just for protection. A day at the range with the AR15 is a lot of fun. Most people who are against firearms cannot fathom it though

Some people think meth, opioids and heroin are fun. Most people who are against drugs cannot fathom it, though.
So make all drugs legal, even if so many people die?

[djAdvocate]

May 27, 2022 12:19:22 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

May 26, 2022 20:26:58 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

the real question is that do we want our kids living in a terror state?

i mean, REALLY, SERIOUSLY, it is safer to send your kids to school in FUCKING GAZA than it is in many places in the US.  

aren't you tired of it, America?  are you really that lost in the fog of terror that it has become "just the way things are"?

This.  SOOOOO this!

From outsiders looking in, America is as dangerous of a place to raise your kids as the middle east.  And for us adults, we live in a war zone, but are just too stupid to see it.  I have family in Australia, and they constantly worry for our safety here, because it is not safe to go anywhere without the threat of being shot and killed.  We are a third world country in the midst of a civil war. America, Fuck Yeah!

i have a close friend who WILL NOT TRAVEL HERE.  and who could blame her.

think about that, America.  people are AFRAID to travel here, in the same way that you are afraid to travel to Guatemala, Iraq or Iran (for the record, Iran is almost certainly safer than the US).

[djAdvocate]

May 27, 2022 12:48:14 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Sure we can. We restrict freedoms all the time. There is no divine right to own any weapon. The second amendment isn't absolute, just like the first amendment isn't absolute.

If we are concerned that mental health is an issue, how about we require a mental health evaluation before we allow a gun purchase and every 2-4 years thereafter. If republicans are so certain that is the cause, they should have no problem with that. But, the common element is guns. No guns, no gun deaths. I also like how you glossed over the suicide deaths from firearms. I guess those do not count.
.

a well regulated militia should not allow people who are incompetent to own guns.  after all, the need for a free state is NOT enhanced by people who can't handle a weapon.  this means physicals, safety tests, and mental illness tests.  you know, the same stuff that our (illegal) standing armies require?

[djAdvocate]

May 27, 2022 12:52:34 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 27, 2022 12:47:12 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Why the fuck do you need 43 firearms??  What is so wrong in your life that you need that many weapons?  

Nothing is wrong with my life it is good. I think around a third of those are collectables (I'd have to ask my husband) the rest we use hunting, skeet shooting, range shooting. There are other reasons to have a firearm than just for protection. A day at the range with the AR15 is a lot of fun. Most people who are against firearms cannot fathom it though

i am not against firearms.  i am actually against people.  

[weltschmerz]

Anyone who own 43 guns is NOT pro-life. The very concept is ludicrous. Pull my other leg.

[djAdvocate]

May 27, 2022 12:58:07 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

I am sure it is fun. But like everything else, it is a risk benefit calculation. 

well, in this case it is a bit weirder than that.
guns are a recreational and hunting tool.
who owns 43 jet skis?

i mean, seriously.
it is BIZARRE how far people take this (rather dangerous) hobby.

[djAdvocate]

May 27, 2022 13:20:17 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

May 27, 2022 12:38:09 GMT -5 scgal said:

When I said mental health is the issue I think I should have said the mental state they are in at the time. I also would like to know why we are so sick, but I doubt owning guns are the reason. 

There were just over 19k homicides in 2020 and 38000 traffic deaths. I know I know the gun allows the assailant the ability to kill many at a time. A assailant can drive thru a playground and do just about as much carnage. I posted before I'm all about more through background checks. Nobody should tell me that I can't have my AR12 or AR15 or any of the 43 other firearms we have.

But it's OK to outlaw abortions? Are you fucking kidding me?? Owning assault rifles meant for military use (meaning mass murder) is a right but healthcare isn't?

How old are your kids? How can you watch this bullshit and bring up your rights? Have your kids ever been in lock down? Known any kids in an actual school shooting? Guns and ammo found at your kids school during class My answer to all of those is yes. I don't care at all about your "rights" to own assault rifles. Those rights are killing children. Actual living, breathing, functional children.

we live in a terror state.

Bin Laden won.

we lost.

[djAdvocate]

May 27, 2022 13:22:44 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

May 27, 2022 12:52:34 GMT -5 scgal said:

Nothing is wrong with my life it is good. I think around a third of those are collectables (I'd have to ask my husband) the rest we use hunting, skeet shooting, range shooting. There are other reasons to have a firearm than just for protection. A day at the range with the AR15 is a lot of fun. Most people who are against firearms cannot fathom it though

Some people think meth, opioids and heroin are fun. Most people who are against drugs cannot fathom it, though.
So make all drugs legal, even if so many people die?

the difference between drugs and guns is that drugs generally only cause the USER to die.
therefore, legalizing drugs makes infinitely more sense than handing out guns like jellybeans.

[raeoflyte]

I have a really hard time with the mental health trope. I know a lot of people who struggle with mental health and none of them would ever consider hurting children.

We don't argue that abusers only hurt their partners and children because of mental health issues. It's about control and power. People who think they deserve power and control.over other people. I'm not sure everything that causes that but when we're talking about better mental health treatment I don't see how it's going to reach those people. They don't think they're the problem - it's everyone else.

[NastyWoman]

May 27, 2022 11:43:20 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 27, 2022 11:36:02 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

my approach has always been the opposite of this.

if i have the right to bear arms, i want anti-aircraft weapons.

And I want some anti-tank weapons, I mean, being necessary to the security of a free State and all.

Dammit. You don't have the same commute I do right? I have always wanted a tank to "get OVER" the traffic jams around here. But if others drive around with ant-tank weapons that is not going to do me a who!e lot of good  


But back to the subject matter: I read a moment ago that in a school district in NY no adults are allowed on school premises without a prior appointment. Yet another band-aid for a disease we refuse to cure.

[justme]

May 27, 2022 13:30:43 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 27, 2022 12:58:07 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

I am sure it is fun. But like everything else, it is a risk benefit calculation. 

well, in this case it is a bit weirder than that.
guns are a recreational and hunting tool.
who owns 43 jet skis?

i mean, seriously.
it is BIZARRE how far people take this (rather dangerous) hobby.

I'm trying to think of anything where if you own 43 of them you've not entered an obsessive and possibly unhealthy place.

I'm sure there's something, but even owning 43 pairs of shoes sounds ridiculous and I know I have more than 20 lol.

[hurley1980]

May 27, 2022 13:40:36 GMT -5 justme said:

May 27, 2022 13:30:43 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

well, in this case it is a bit weirder than that.
guns are a recreational and hunting tool.
who owns 43 jet skis?

i mean, seriously.
it is BIZARRE how far people take this (rather dangerous) hobby.

I'm trying to think of anything where if you own 43 of them you've not entered an obsessive and possibly unhealthy place.

I'm sure there's something, but even owning 43 pairs of shoes sounds ridiculous and I know I have more than 20 lol.

I am totally obsessed with shoes, and probably have about 100 pairs. Boots, sandals, heels, flats, etc.  My mom used to collect shot glasses from her travels and had about 200 before we moved her and she got rid of them.  So owning a collection of antique guns makes a bit of sense to me.  But guns are expensive, and AR15s aren't antiques. So it still doesn't really seem normal.