Here we go again. 19 children & 2 teachers dead

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

There are millions of people who are diagnosed or undiagnosed with mental illness all over the world. They don't shoot people so I understandthe concernand frustrationat tryingto wipe this away as mental illness.

the US has a record setting level of mass shootings. If it's just mental illness why don't other countries have just as many?

What we also have is a very large group of people who are being spoon fed by the web and an entire political party that they are being disenfranchised and the only way to stop that is to be a "good guy" with a gun.

That it's white people and white men in particular place to make sure the rest of us know our place by any means necessary.

Anyone can be hooked into a cult if the right buttons are pressed. It's not mental illness in the way we assume it's our brains doing what brains do on turbodrive.

We need to stopwith the idea that hate and intolerance and spewing violence as a solution are protected free speech.

Gun control can help in instances like these I absolutely agree and I'm all for slightly better than nothing at all. I'm also all.for banning automatic weapons sales for the same reason

.
But it doesn't do any good if Hunter Jim or is being radicalized on a reddit board and already had a closet full of guns.

See the dude who stormed that poor pizza parlor that became part of the pizza gate conspiracy.

We need to stop getting our panties in a wad and trying to ban.Muslims out of fear and start focusing that energy on the terrorists being cultivated here at home.

[Opti]

May 26, 2022 14:10:29 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 26, 2022 13:54:34 GMT -5 movingforward said:

I have no evidence or statistics readily available so this is all conjecture on my part, but I think a lot of things have come into play over the last 20 years that could be making mental health issues much worse. Prior to social media the crazies of the world at least had to go out and physically seek individuals to follow them. Now every racist hater in the universe has a platform available in which to influence and brainwash the masses. It is the perfect opportunity to pounce on the weak minded, those that have some sort of beef with something that is going wrong in their lives, etc.

We also didn't used to have news 24/7, and personally I think it is one of the very worst things that ever happened to us. Watching it for 30 minutes makes me sad, angry and depressed...

Throw into the mix that we no longer have any sense of community. Like dj said, it is every man for himself. 

And we certainly don't want to burden anyone by making them wait a WHOLE 72 hours to obtain a weapon while someone does a background check. Imagine the utter horror of that...and mental health screenings, why on earth would we need those pesky little things. It is everyone's God given right to have a gun if they want one. It obviously doesn't matter in the least what they intend to do with it

I couldn't agree with you more on all of it. I am a 2a proponent and we have several well actually alot of guns. It's crazy that you can walk into a store and walk out 30 min later with a gun. Everyone has the right to own a gun but should show the mental ability on how to handle it. A safety course on how to use and store it would be helpful. All these shootings I think are more of a mental illness issue. 

I disagree. Some are just I'm real angry and I'm going to make someone pay. Thinking it is mostly mental illness allows too many to sweep it all under the rug. The impulse is similar to the guy who kills the wife or GF who left them. 

Learning to control one's anger or not act when it is raging would also cut down workplace shootings too.

[pulmonarymd]

If it a mental health issue, then every gun buyer needs a screening before they would be allowed to purchase one. And every gun owner needs a periodic assessment too. That will create a great backlog and cut down on gun sales. Hey, at least then we are doing something.

As has been pointed out, mental illness is not confined to the US. So something else has to be the reason. I wonder what that is

[Deleted]

I think the age to buy a fire arm needs to be raised.  DD can't order a glass of wine with dinner, but she can buy an AR-15.  I don't know what the age needs to be, but at 18 the brain isn't even fully developed.  An older age would also allow more time for a red flag to occur, thus failing a background check, if one was implemented nationally.  

I am also fine if we just ban guns like the AR-15.  I can't think of any reason an individual needs to own one.  It is clear that what we are doing now, nothing, isn't working.  

[hurley1980]

May 26, 2022 17:02:34 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

If it a mental health issue, then every gun buyer needs a screening before they would be allowed to purchase one. And every gun owner needs a periodic assessment too. That will create a great backlog and cut down on gun sales. Hey, at least then we are doing something.

As has been pointed out, mental illness is not confined to the US. So something else has to be the reason. I wonder what that is

[weltschmerz]

Even Congressmen are spreading rumours. What's wrong with people?

Arizona Congressman Paul Gosar fit both unfounded claims about Ramos in a single now-deleted tweet that also misspelled his name. “It’s a transsexual leftist illegal alien named Salvatore Ramos,” Gosar tweeted Tuesday night.

www.ctvnews.ca/world/horrifying-conspiracy-theories-swirl-around-texas-shooting-1.5919071

[chiver78]

May 26, 2022 17:10:57 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

May 26, 2022 17:02:34 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

If it a mental health issue, then every gun buyer needs a screening before they would be allowed to purchase one. And every gun owner needs a periodic assessment too. That will create a great backlog and cut down on gun sales. Hey, at least then we are doing something.

As has been pointed out, mental illness is not confined to the US. So something else has to be the reason. I wonder what that is

be careful who you say this to, you might get yourself blocked! 🙄

in case I wasn't clear, 👏👏👏👏👏👏

[kadee79]

Listen to this....

[Deleted]

So, what I’d like somebody smarter than me to do, is maybe a month from now, try to find data on whether sales increased for AR 15’s or whatever they are, and similar weapons, since this happened.

Just putting a lil bug in y’all ears and praying I misunderstood some things and I’m wrong.

[Deleted]

May 26, 2022 17:10:57 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

May 26, 2022 17:02:34 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

If it a mental health issue, then every gun buyer needs a screening before they would be allowed to purchase one. And every gun owner needs a periodic assessment too. That will create a great backlog and cut down on gun sales. Hey, at least then we are doing something.

As has been pointed out, mental illness is not confined to the US. So something else has to be the reason. I wonder what that is

So many thoughts on this, but can’t express them without being politically incorrect and offensive. 

So I’ll just say that I am glad that many white women have had their eyes opened over the last few years, and are finally beginning to see and understand some of what many of us minorities have seen and understood our entire lives.

I hope that wasn’t too offensive, the way I worded it. But I stand by what I said and make no apologies for saying it.

[djAdvocate]

May 26, 2022 17:02:34 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

If it a mental health issue, then every gun buyer needs a screening before they would be allowed to purchase one. And every gun owner needs a periodic assessment too. That will create a great backlog and cut down on gun sales. Hey, at least then we are doing something.

As has been pointed out, mental illness is not confined to the US. So something else has to be the reason. I wonder what that is

i have been thinking about this for a long time.
i think it is a bunch of factors that can't be strictly called "mental illness".
to be as succinct as possible, it is cultural.

[djAdvocate]

May 26, 2022 17:18:27 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Even Congressmen are spreading rumours. What's wrong with people?

Arizona Congressman Paul Gosar fit both unfounded claims about Ramos in a single now-deleted tweet that also misspelled his name. “It’s a transsexual leftist illegal alien named Salvatore Ramos,” Gosar tweeted Tuesday night.

www.ctvnews.ca/world/horrifying-conspiracy-theories-swirl-around-texas-shooting-1.5919071

they can't live with the fact that the blood is on their hands.

[Opti]

May 26, 2022 17:18:27 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Even Congressmen are spreading rumours. What's wrong with people?

Arizona Congressman Paul Gosar fit both unfounded claims about Ramos in a single now-deleted tweet that also misspelled his name. “It’s a transsexual leftist illegal alien named Salvatore Ramos,” Gosar tweeted Tuesday night.

www.ctvnews.ca/world/horrifying-conspiracy-theories-swirl-around-texas-shooting-1.5919071

He just turned 18. How does anyone know how he would have voted? 

I guess Gosar didn't like the idea of HS dropout male who loved guns.

[chiver78]

May 26, 2022 17:54:42 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 26, 2022 17:02:34 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

If it a mental health issue, then every gun buyer needs a screening before they would be allowed to purchase one. And every gun owner needs a periodic assessment too. That will create a great backlog and cut down on gun sales. Hey, at least then we are doing something.

As has been pointed out, mental illness is not confined to the US. So something else has to be the reason. I wonder what that is

i have been thinking about this for a long time.
i think it is a bunch of factors that can't be strictly called "mental illness".
to be as succinct as possible, it is cultural.

that's exactly it, but how do you start to make change without offending those in power, to allow for the change to actually happen? because if those in power feel threatened, they won't allow for change. that's where we've known for awhile that that's where we are.

[Deleted]

May 26, 2022 17:54:42 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 26, 2022 17:02:34 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

If it a mental health issue, then every gun buyer needs a screening before they would be allowed to purchase one. And every gun owner needs a periodic assessment too. That will create a great backlog and cut down on gun sales. Hey, at least then we are doing something.

As has been pointed out, mental illness is not confined to the US. So something else has to be the reason. I wonder what that is

i have been thinking about this for a long time.
i think it is a bunch of factors that can't be strictly called "mental illness".
to be as succinct as possible, it is cultural.

Cultural, do you mind speaking on what culture or kind of culture you are referring to?

[djAdvocate]

May 26, 2022 18:00:24 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

May 26, 2022 17:54:42 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i have been thinking about this for a long time.
i think it is a bunch of factors that can't be strictly called "mental illness".
to be as succinct as possible, it is cultural.

that's exactly it, but how do you start to make change without offending those in power, to allow for the change to actually happen? because if those in power feel threatened, they won't allow for change. that's where we've known for awhile that that's where we are.

candidly, it feels hopeless to me, chiver.  i don't think our culture was ever really all that great, and it has gotten vastly worse since Nixon.  our leadership is responsible, but given that it is "working" for them, why should they change?  so they keep delivering all of this nonsense about how much we value independence and don't need anything, including government.  we have no societal cohesion at this point.  and mind you, this did NOT start with Republicans.  if anything, Democrats started the ball rolling.  Republicans are just finishing the effort.

GHWB used to aspire to "compassionate conservatism".  within a few years, Republicans were LAUGHING at that idea (and Democrats never took it seriously).  Democrats have enough compassion, but they have lost the culture war, imo.  our heroes are people like Musk and Trump- people that have never wanted for anything.  we are, in essence, utterly spoiled, and we want to stay that way.  

how do you fix a spoiled kid?

[djAdvocate]

May 26, 2022 18:02:55 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

May 26, 2022 17:54:42 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

i have been thinking about this for a long time.
i think it is a bunch of factors that can't be strictly called "mental illness".
to be as succinct as possible, it is cultural.

Cultural, do you mind speaking on what culture or kind of culture you are referring to?

it is hard to describe.  it is a culture that values independence above compassion.  it is a culture that devalues things that i would describe as feminine: art, beauty, love, forgiveness, kindness, empathy.  it is a culture that is focused on zero sum games and winning, rather than mutual benefit and raising the lot of everyone in society.

we were NEVER all that good at any of those alternatives, but it seems like in the last 50 years or so, we have completely given up.  the milk of human kindness has run dry in the US.

[djAdvocate]

incidentally, i started thinking about this in 1993, when i read this article:


www.projectcensored.org/1-its-you-the-u-s-is-killing/


this points out that child homicide rate and child poverty are 2x here what they are anyone else.  this report was not only buried by congress, it was buried by the media.  why?  because of US exceptionalism.  we are so fucking great we can't face up to when we are not.  furthermore, this is a failing of policy.  it was recently pointed out on this board that we reduced child poverty during COVID by offering food assistance.  it dropped child poverty 40-50%.  as soon as that assistance was lifted, poverty doubled.  it was a cheap program, but apparently we would rather be bombing the shit out of some thankless country (or repairing the damage before we leave) than fixing our own.

if we weren't so busy worrying about the sexual orientation of mass murderers, perhaps we could solve the problem of mass murder.  but right now, i have ZERO faith in us getting our arms around that or any other significant problem, here.

[hurley1980]

May 26, 2022 18:09:48 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 26, 2022 18:02:55 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Cultural, do you mind speaking on what culture or kind of culture you are referring to?

it is hard to describe.  it is a culture that values independence above compassion.  it is a culture that devalues things that i would describe as feminine: art, beauty, love, forgiveness, kindness, empathy.  it is a culture that is focused on zero sum games and winning, rather than mutual benefit and raising the lot of everyone in society.

we were NEVER all that good at any of those alternatives, but it seems like in the last 50 years or so, we have completely given up.  the milk of human kindness has run dry in the US.

I agree with this. What you described above is American culture.  Like every country, we have our own, it just sucks.

America is a very young nation compared to many other developed nations.  We are like young spoiled children because we achieved greatness so soon, and think we are the best, and winning is what we have always known.  We don't focus and appreciate things other nations do, because that wasn't what supposedly made us great. We became arrogant, stupid, and narcissistic. All these men who do these killings think America was best in its prime (post WW2 I guess??), and anything that takes us away from that era is doing us harm, making us weak. I think the best thing to describe what is happening here isn't mental illness, but fear. They are terrified of change. 

But it does seem to be mostly in white males (not all, so please don't take offence friends).  Hence "white male rage."

[djAdvocate]

May 26, 2022 18:22:12 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

May 26, 2022 18:09:48 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

it is hard to describe.  it is a culture that values independence above compassion.  it is a culture that devalues things that i would describe as feminine: art, beauty, love, forgiveness, kindness, empathy.  it is a culture that is focused on zero sum games and winning, rather than mutual benefit and raising the lot of everyone in society.

we were NEVER all that good at any of those alternatives, but it seems like in the last 50 years or so, we have completely given up.  the milk of human kindness has run dry in the US.

I agree with this. What you described above is American culture.  Like every country, we have our own, it just sucks.

America is a very young nation compared to many other developed nations.  We are like young spoiled children because we achieved greatness so soon, and think we are the best, and winning is what we have always known.  We don't focus and appreciate things other nations do, because that wasn't what supposedly made us great. We became arrogant, stupid, and narcissistic. All these men who do these killings think America was best in its prime (post WW2 I guess??), and anything that takes us away from that era is doing us harm, making us weak. I think the best thing to describe what is happening here isn't mental illness, but fear. They are terrified of change. 

But it does seem to be mostly in white males (not all, so please don't take offence friends).  Hence "white male rage."

it is not just change, it is a specific type of change: it is change which lowers their status.  there is a POWERFUL evidence of this which, again, we have talked about on the board.  there is POWERFUL evidence that this "issue" lead to the impossible- the election of a megalomaniac with no perceptible skill at running a pantry, let alone a country.  "people" (white guys) are so desperate to wind back the clock that they would elect a blood stained mallet like that fucking TROLL we used to call president.  

the journey would start with introspection.  hence, my sense of hopelessness.  if there are 99 things America does well, introspection is not among them.

[hurley1980]

May 26, 2022 18:27:30 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 26, 2022 18:22:12 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

I agree with this. What you described above is American culture.  Like every country, we have our own, it just sucks.

America is a very young nation compared to many other developed nations.  We are like young spoiled children because we achieved greatness so soon, and think we are the best, and winning is what we have always known.  We don't focus and appreciate things other nations do, because that wasn't what supposedly made us great. We became arrogant, stupid, and narcissistic. All these men who do these killings think America was best in its prime (post WW2 I guess??), and anything that takes us away from that era is doing us harm, making us weak. I think the best thing to describe what is happening here isn't mental illness, but fear. They are terrified of change. 

But it does seem to be mostly in white males (not all, so please don't take offence friends).  Hence "white male rage."

it is not just change, it is a specific type of change: it is change which lowers their status.  there is a POWERFUL evidence of this which, again, we have talked about on the board.  there is POWERFUL evidence that this "issue" lead to the impossible- the election of a megalomaniac with no perceptible skill at running a pantry, let alone a country.  "people" (white guys) are so desperate to wind back the clock that they would elect a blood stained mallet like that fucking TROLL we used to call president.  

the journey would start with introspection.  hence, my sense of hopelessness.  if there are 99 things America does well, introspection is not among them.

Totally, but seeing as how they have held all of the power for hundreds on years, any change is going to result in them losing status.  So at this point, any change at all is what scares them.  

Lol okay, I really should get some work done now!  

[Deleted]

May 26, 2022 18:22:12 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

May 26, 2022 18:09:48 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

it is hard to describe.  it is a culture that values independence above compassion.  it is a culture that devalues things that i would describe as feminine: art, beauty, love, forgiveness, kindness, empathy.  it is a culture that is focused on zero sum games and winning, rather than mutual benefit and raising the lot of everyone in society.

we were NEVER all that good at any of those alternatives, but it seems like in the last 50 years or so, we have completely given up.  the milk of human kindness has run dry in the US.

I agree with this. What you described above is American culture.  Like every country, we have our own, it just sucks.

America is a very young nation compared to many other developed nations.  We are like young spoiled children because we achieved greatness so soon, and think we are the best, and winning is what we have always known.  We don't focus and appreciate things other nations do, because that wasn't what supposedly made us great. We became arrogant, stupid, and narcissistic. All these men who do these killings think America was best in its prime (post WW2 I guess??), and anything that takes us away from that era is doing us harm, making us weak. I think the best thing to describe what is happening here isn't mental illness, but fear. They are terrified of change. 

But it does seem to be mostly in white males (not all, so please don't take offence friends).  Hence "white male rage."

I hear you, and agree with much of what you wrote. But in this country, most serial killers and mass murderers have been white males. Not all, but most. Even before the fears about maintaining their positions of power and the demographics changing such that white people may soon not be the majority, white males have been serial killers and mass murderers in this country. Why?

Has it always been about rage or the reasons you mention? I don’t think so. 

[chiver78]

May 26, 2022 18:07:18 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 26, 2022 18:00:24 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

that's exactly it, but how do you start to make change without offending those in power, to allow for the change to actually happen? because if those in power feel threatened, they won't allow for change. that's where we've known for awhile that that's where we are.

candidly, it feels hopeless to me, chiver.  i don't think our culture was ever really all that great, and it has gotten vastly worse since Nixon.  our leadership is responsible, but given that it is "working" for them, why should they change?  so they keep delivering all of this nonsense about how much we value independence and don't need anything, including government.  we have no societal cohesion at this point.  and mind you, this did NOT start with Republicans.  if anything, Democrats started the ball rolling.  Republicans are just finishing the effort.

GHWB used to aspire to "compassionate conservatism".  within a few years, Republicans were LAUGHING at that idea (and Democrats never took it seriously).  Democrats have enough compassion, but they have lost the culture war, imo.  our heroes are people like Musk and Trump- people that have never wanted for anything.  we are, in essence, utterly spoiled, and we want to stay that way.  

how do you fix a spoiled kid?

I appreciate your candor, thank you. I was born at the end of Carter's time in office, so I have an entirely different perspective to what is 'normal' than someone of your esteemed vintage.  (I may have said this before, but if not for your posts about CA, I'd need to ask if you weren't a friend of mine currently in NC)

anyway, I remember GHWB, and his legacy. he was (mostly) still doing what he thought was right, and his first interest wasn't screwing the other side. I miss the days when Ted Kennedy and John McCain reached across the aisle and got shit done. today? Liz Cheney would like to discuss how calling out a sitting President for treasonous acts resulted in her losing her stature within the party. 

short version? I'm with you, we're fucked here.   I'm thankful I have that other passport. I hope you've lined up your stuff for wherever you've decided to retire. 

[chiver78]

May 26, 2022 18:27:30 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 26, 2022 18:22:12 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

I agree with this. What you described above is American culture.  Like every country, we have our own, it just sucks.

America is a very young nation compared to many other developed nations.  We are like young spoiled children because we achieved greatness so soon, and think we are the best, and winning is what we have always known.  We don't focus and appreciate things other nations do, because that wasn't what supposedly made us great. We became arrogant, stupid, and narcissistic. All these men who do these killings think America was best in its prime (post WW2 I guess??), and anything that takes us away from that era is doing us harm, making us weak. I think the best thing to describe what is happening here isn't mental illness, but fear. They are terrified of change. 

But it does seem to be mostly in white males (not all, so please don't take offence friends).  Hence "white male rage."

it is not just change, it is a specific type of change: it is change which lowers their status.  there is a POWERFUL evidence of this which, again, we have talked about on the board.  there is POWERFUL evidence that this "issue" lead to the impossible- the election of a megalomaniac with no perceptible skill at running a pantry, let alone a country.  "people" (white guys) are so desperate to wind back the clock that they would elect a blood stained mallet like that fucking TROLL we used to call president.  

the journey would start with introspection.  hence, my sense of hopelessness.  if there are 99 things America does well, introspection is not among them.

I can't shout this loud enough. thank you! 

[djAdvocate]

May 26, 2022 18:32:29 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

May 26, 2022 18:27:30 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

it is not just change, it is a specific type of change: it is change which lowers their status.  there is a POWERFUL evidence of this which, again, we have talked about on the board.  there is POWERFUL evidence that this "issue" lead to the impossible- the election of a megalomaniac with no perceptible skill at running a pantry, let alone a country.  "people" (white guys) are so desperate to wind back the clock that they would elect a blood stained mallet like that fucking TROLL we used to call president.  

the journey would start with introspection.  hence, my sense of hopelessness.  if there are 99 things America does well, introspection is not among them.

Totally, but seeing as how they have held all of the power for hundreds on years, any change is going to result in them losing status.  So at this point, any change at all is what scares them.  

Lol okay, I really should get some work done now!  

sorry to pull you away, Hurley.  i should try to get some work done, too.
but i am having trouble focusing today.

[hurley1980]

May 26, 2022 18:37:37 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

May 26, 2022 18:32:29 GMT -5 hurley1980 said:

Totally, but seeing as how they have held all of the power for hundreds on years, any change is going to result in them losing status.  So at this point, any change at all is what scares them.  

Lol okay, I really should get some work done now!  

sorry to pull you away, Hurley.  i should try to get some work done, too.
but i am having trouble focusing today.

Its always fun chatting with you.  And thank you for all of your suggestions about retiring abroad.  I may be leaving this country sooner than anticipated.   Have a great night!

[Tennesseer]

I keep reading we need to arm teachers.  Will the teacher's salary be there existing salary and a police officer's salary too?   Will state boards of education fund the new teachers' job duties?.

Arm the teachers-pay the teachers.

And what type of learning environment are we creating for children in classrooms.

[kadee79]

Here is something else to think about...

[grumpyhermit]

May 26, 2022 20:02:46 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I keep reading we need to arm teachers.  Will the teacher's salary be there existing salary and a police officer's salary too?   Will state boards of education fund the new teachers' job duties?.

Arm the teachers-pay the teachers.

And what type of learning environment are we creating for children in classrooms.

Don't forget, schools also have too many entry points, like windows and doors. Also, maybe not enough barbed wire fences around the perimeter. 

So, more armed guards, fewer windows, high fences...what does this remind me of....

I also saw someone rightly point out, maybe Twitter, that we all know if they arm teachers, it will take about 2 seconds for a cop to "accidentally" shoot an armed black teacher because they "feared for their lives" and thought they were the bad guy. 


God forbid we get our collective heads out of our asses and do what any rational country would do and just remove the source of the problem.

[justme]

Interesting if you haven't seen it. It's about how the UK stopped mass shootings at their schools. Spoiler alert.

www.buzzfeed.com/kristatorres/uk-ended-school-shootings-us-is-failing?d_id=3663344&ref=bffbbuzzfeed&utm_source=dynamic&utm_campaign=bffbbuzzfeed


www.instagram.com/reel/Cd-qNSmpAT1/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=