Tiny
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Post by Tiny on May 26, 2022 9:40:10 GMT -5
Can we promote the armed forces/military - if you want to handle army level weapons - Join the Military? Wouldn't that be more patriotic than owning such weapons as civilians?
Or is that too close to acknowledging that the weapons are intended to deal out death and that the wielder of said weapon is also facing death??
I guess the nice "Disney-fication" fantasy of owning one without any of the "death" part attached to it is the big draw??
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on May 26, 2022 9:46:24 GMT -5
Hmm, maybe we need protesters with big signs showing gun injuries, dead bodies, and lists of names of people who have died in gun violence to start routinely converging on gun shows, guns stores, politicians homes, etc... Maybe stage some wounded and dying people on the ground.... you know bring the HORROR HOME for tens of thousands of people DAILY across America - not just the hundreds that face it when it happens.
Why not take a page (or two or three) out of the Anti-Abortionists playbook...
I think the people who are buying guns need an in their face graphic reminder about the dark side of their hobby... that illusion of "it won't happen here/to me/I'm not part of the problem" needs get hit with a cold splash of reality.
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justme
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Post by justme on May 26, 2022 11:11:34 GMT -5
Can someone just scream at Cruz asking what would stop this since he's so adamant gun control laws wouldn't? Thanks.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on May 26, 2022 12:18:13 GMT -5
I am beyond sick of hearing how reasonable gun laws would have made no difference. That is complete and utter bullshit. Have they ever in their lives heard of The Butterfly Effect. First, absolutely no one needs an assault rifle. I am sorry if it is your hobby. Get over it...your hobby does not trump innocent lives.
If this kid couldn't have gotten a hold of weapons so easily then this whole thing may have played out differently. It's not like every Tom, Dick and Harry knows how to obtain illegal weapons. Finding out how could have taken some time. Maybe this tragedy would have still happened but maybe it would not have. I didn't realize republicans had a crystal ball letting them know exactly how every thing in the universe will ultimately play out.
So the answer is to just sit back and do absolutely nothing. Let's not try one damn thing to curb mass shootings. I have given up...this is how we live now...
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 26, 2022 12:35:16 GMT -5
I am beyond sick of hearing how reasonable gun laws would have made no difference. That is complete and utter bullshit. Have they ever in their lives heard of The Butterfly Effect. First, absolutely no one needs an assault rifle. I am sorry if it is your hobby. Get over it...your hobby does not trump innocent lives.
If this kid couldn't have gotten a hold of weapons so easily then this whole thing may have played out differently. It's not like every Tom, Dick and Harry knows how to obtain illegal weapons. Finding out how could have taken some time. Maybe this tragedy would have still happened but maybe it would not have. I didn't realize republicans had a crystal ball letting them know exactly how every thing in the universe will ultimately play out.
So the answer is to just sit back and do absolutely nothing. Let's not try one damn thing to curb mass shootings. I have given up...this is how we live now... exactly this. I actually decided to engage with a HS classmate who put up the most ridiculous post last night on FB. and then quoted a very long bible passage. give me a fucking break. I politely let him have it, asking him to explain why he thinks we don't need help in mental health, without pointing to his book written by man? shocker - he came back with more bible verses. I also got a PM about his one true god, and how he wishes I would open my ears and heart to it. I didn't answer. today, he puts up a pic of the shooters of this week, Sandy Hook, and Virginia Tech with a comment that all three of them were on anti-depressants. as if medication alone governs the status of an individual's mental health. I'm not engaging any further. there's no reasoning with that level of Kool-Aid. there's zero reason (general) you can't practice your own religion in your own life while the rest of us live our lives governed by common sense gun access laws. go live in your bubble and let the rest of us be.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on May 26, 2022 13:03:17 GMT -5
Some fool on the radio was spouting off about how we have all "lost our spirituality" and that is what is wrong with our nation . Sure dude, that's exactly it...because people never use religion in wrong ways to support absolutely horrific actions. Then the guy went on to say that it's also because "the family unit" has been destroyed. Families no longer consist of a mother and father, women are working, divorce rate, blah, blah, blah...what a lot of horse manure. Such narrow mindedness. This person obviously has no way to think outside of the tiny box he lives in. As far as I know women work and people get divorced in just about every other first world country. Why are there not mass shooting all the time in Australia, New Zealand, Norway, Canada, Denmark, and about 10 others that would easily roll off the tongue.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 26, 2022 13:05:35 GMT -5
well, I was chatting with another person on that thread, and just ignoring the classmate. I just got blocked. oh well, saved me the trouble. this is exactly it. to add to it, they feel threatened by anyone that tried to take back their own space to exist.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 26, 2022 13:05:52 GMT -5
A talking head on TV this am outlined the conservative talking points behind any of these shootings: 1) Offer thoughts and prayers for this horrible lone crazy gunman attack. 2) Insist we can’t make this political. 3) Insist any proposed new gun laws wouldn’t stop every mass shooting, so it’s pointless to propose new gun laws. 4) Divert attention to some proposed new regulations that don’t involve gun laws - like mental health issues. Of course, when the outrage has died down, the GOP politicians will go back to defunding mental health treatment, but for now, they’ll pretend that’s the only possible way to fix these shootings. Look at all the far right GOP politician’s statements right now, they’re dutifully following this template almost word for word. This is really noticeable when something is trending on Twitter. Last week, "coward" was trending. When I clicked on it to see why, Republican politicians all had the exact same tweet (something against Biden, no idea what, it was stupid). Not retweets, but the same cut and paste formula. It's blatantly obvious they were repeating something they'd been told to amplify, and the good little robots dutifully did the minimum necessary to comply. No thought, no nuance, just bot-like bully behavior. the marketing arm of the GOP is the only functioning part of the party.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 26, 2022 13:07:57 GMT -5
Can we promote the armed forces/military - if you want to handle army level weapons - Join the Military? Wouldn't that be more patriotic than owning such weapons as civilians? Or is that too close to acknowledging that the weapons are intended to deal out death and that the wielder of said weapon is also facing death?? I guess the nice "Disney-fication" fantasy of owning one without any of the "death" part attached to it is the big draw?? in Switzerland, they are REQUIRED to own guns. they are also REQUIRED to get trained on their use. this is actually far closer to the 2nd Amendment than what we have here.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 26, 2022 13:09:05 GMT -5
Hmm, maybe we need protesters with big signs showing gun injuries, dead bodies, and lists of names of people who have died in gun violence to start routinely converging on gun shows, guns stores, politicians homes, etc... Maybe stage some wounded and dying people on the ground.... you know bring the HORROR HOME for tens of thousands of people DAILY across America - not just the hundreds that face it when it happens. Why not take a page (or two or three) out of the Anti-Abortionists playbook... I think the people who are buying guns need an in their face graphic reminder about the dark side of their hobby... that illusion of "it won't happen here/to me/I'm not part of the problem" needs get hit with a cold splash of reality. i was imagining what the classroom looked like, if they could not identify some of the children.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 26, 2022 13:11:55 GMT -5
Firearms: the gift that keeps on giving. The husband of one of the murdered teachers passed away today. Husband of slain teacher dies ‘of grief,’ family confirmsUVALDE, Texas – The husband of one of the teachers who was shot and killed at Robb Elementary School while trying to protect her students has also died, family members confirm. Irma Garcia’s husband, Joe, “passed away due to grief,” a nephew posted on Twitter. According to Irma Garcia’s online teacher’s biography, the couple had been married for 24 years and have four children. “I have my eldest Cristian son completing Marine boot camp and another son Jose attending Texas State university University,” Garcia states on her teacher’s page. “My eldest daughter Lyliana will be a sophomore in high school and my youngest Alysandra will be a 7th grader this year.” On Twitter, the couple’s nephew posted: “PLEASE PRAY FOR OUR FAMILY, God have mercy on us, this isn’t easy.” Husband of slain teacher dies ‘of grief,’ family confirms
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 26, 2022 13:12:55 GMT -5
I am beyond sick of hearing how reasonable gun laws would have made no difference. That is complete and utter bullshit. Have they ever in their lives heard of The Butterfly Effect. First, absolutely no one needs an assault rifle. I am sorry if it is your hobby. Get over it...your hobby does not trump innocent lives.
If this kid couldn't have gotten a hold of weapons so easily then this whole thing may have played out differently. It's not like every Tom, Dick and Harry knows how to obtain illegal weapons. Finding out how could have taken some time. Maybe this tragedy would have still happened but maybe it would not have. I didn't realize republicans had a crystal ball letting them know exactly how every thing in the universe will ultimately play out.
So the answer is to just sit back and do absolutely nothing. Let's not try one damn thing to curb mass shootings. I have given up...this is how we live now... exactly this. I actually decided to engage with a HS classmate who put up the most ridiculous post last night on FB. and then quoted a very long bible passage. give me a fucking break. I politely let him have it, asking him to explain why he thinks we don't need help in mental health, without pointing to his book written by man? shocker - he came back with more bible verses. I also got a PM about his one true god, and how he wishes I would open my ears and heart to it. I didn't answer. today, he puts up a pic of the shooters of this week, Sandy Hook, and Virginia Tech with a comment that all three of them were on anti-depressants. as if medication alone governs the status of an individual's mental health. I'm not engaging any further. there's no reasoning with that level of Kool-Aid. there's zero reason (general) you can't practice your own religion in your own life while the rest of us live our lives governed by common sense gun access laws. go live in your bubble and let the rest of us be. he's right about us being spiritually devoid. it is because we have no civic purpose as Americans. when we can pump our fists for the most selfish, arrogant, narcissistic members of our society, who think of everyone the way most people think of hamburger, we have a serious problem. and let's not be mistaken about this: it has been brewing for over half a century. every year we get a little more selfish and disconnected, and nobody even discusses it.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 26, 2022 13:15:01 GMT -5
exactly this. I actually decided to engage with a HS classmate who put up the most ridiculous post last night on FB. and then quoted a very long bible passage. give me a fucking break. I politely let him have it, asking him to explain why he thinks we don't need help in mental health, without pointing to his book written by man? shocker - he came back with more bible verses. I also got a PM about his one true god, and how he wishes I would open my ears and heart to it. I didn't answer. today, he puts up a pic of the shooters of this week, Sandy Hook, and Virginia Tech with a comment that all three of them were on anti-depressants. as if medication alone governs the status of an individual's mental health. I'm not engaging any further. there's no reasoning with that level of Kool-Aid. there's zero reason (general) you can't practice your own religion in your own life while the rest of us live our lives governed by common sense gun access laws. go live in your bubble and let the rest of us be. he's right about us being spiritually devoid. it is because we have no civic purpose as Americans. when we can pump our fists for the most selfish, arrogant, narcissistic members of our society, who think of everyone the way most people think of hamburger, we have a serious problem. and let's not be mistaken about this: it has been brewing for over half a century. every year we get a little more selfish and disconnected, and nobody even discusses it. oh, I don't disagree with that at all. I took issue with the massive bible verse, as if that was going to just fix everything. y'know, like religion has solved all of the world's problems over the centuries.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on May 26, 2022 13:20:05 GMT -5
he's right about us being spiritually devoid. it is because we have no civic purpose as Americans. when we can pump our fists for the most selfish, arrogant, narcissistic members of our society, who think of everyone the way most people think of hamburger, we have a serious problem. and let's not be mistaken about this: it has been brewing for over half a century. every year we get a little more selfish and disconnected, and nobody even discusses it. oh, I don't disagree with that at all. I took issue with the massive bible verse, as if that was going to just fix everything. y'know, like religion has solved all of the world's problems over the centuries. you will note that i liked your post. i was just saying that even the sheeple have it half right. the have the right question. they just have the wrong answer. or one that won't work for a secular society, anyway.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 26, 2022 13:21:29 GMT -5
yes, true. and I did note that.
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seriousthistime
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Post by seriousthistime on May 26, 2022 13:36:12 GMT -5
Just curious, if now is not the time to bring up the bigger political issue, when is the time? Because if it requires the country to stop and wait a certain period of time to grieve and honor the victims, I would like to know how long that is, and what we do to stop the shootings for long enough to get us to that time to actually raise the bigger political issue.
I think we are strong enough and smart enough to grieve and honor the victims while simultaneously raising the bigger political issue. The people who say that now is not the time are really saying it ain't ever gonna happen.
Stating the obvious here. And preaching to the choir.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 26, 2022 13:36:18 GMT -5
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on May 26, 2022 13:54:34 GMT -5
I have no evidence or statistics readily available so this is all conjecture on my part, but I think a lot of things have come into play over the last 20 years that could be making mental health issues much worse. Prior to social media the crazies of the world at least had to go out and physically seek individuals to follow them. Now every racist hater in the universe has a platform available in which to influence and brainwash the masses. It is the perfect opportunity to pounce on the weak minded, those that have some sort of beef with something that is going wrong in their lives, etc.
We also didn't used to have news 24/7, and personally I think it is one of the very worst things that ever happened to us. Watching it for 30 minutes makes me sad, angry and depressed...
Throw into the mix that we no longer have any sense of community. Like dj said, it is every man for himself. And we certainly don't want to burden anyone by making them wait a WHOLE 72 hours to obtain a weapon while someone does a background check. Imagine the utter horror of that...and mental health screenings, why on earth would we need those pesky little things. It is everyone's God given right to have a gun if they want one. It obviously doesn't matter in the least what they intend to do with it
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scgal
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Post by scgal on May 26, 2022 14:10:29 GMT -5
I have no evidence or statistics readily available so this is all conjecture on my part, but I think a lot of things have come into play over the last 20 years that could be making mental health issues much worse. Prior to social media the crazies of the world at least had to go out and physically seek individuals to follow them. Now every racist hater in the universe has a platform available in which to influence and brainwash the masses. It is the perfect opportunity to pounce on the weak minded, those that have some sort of beef with something that is going wrong in their lives, etc.
We also didn't used to have news 24/7, and personally I think it is one of the very worst things that ever happened to us. Watching it for 30 minutes makes me sad, angry and depressed...
Throw into the mix that we no longer have any sense of community. Like dj said, it is every man for himself. And we certainly don't want to burden anyone by making them wait a WHOLE 72 hours to obtain a weapon while someone does a background check. Imagine the utter horror of that...and mental health screenings, why on earth would we need those pesky little things. It is everyone's God given right to have a gun if they want one. It obviously doesn't matter in the least what they intend to do with it I couldn't agree with you more on all of it. I am a 2a proponent and we have several well actually alot of guns. It's crazy that you can walk into a store and walk out 30 min later with a gun. Everyone has the right to own a gun but should show the mental ability on how to handle it. A safety course on how to use and store it would be helpful. All these shootings I think are more of a mental illness issue.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 26, 2022 14:23:35 GMT -5
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 26, 2022 14:53:59 GMT -5
You must have missed my post a few posts back.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 26, 2022 14:54:42 GMT -5
yup, i did.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 26, 2022 14:56:23 GMT -5
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 26, 2022 15:08:13 GMT -5
I have no evidence or statistics readily available so this is all conjecture on my part, but I think a lot of things have come into play over the last 20 years that could be making mental health issues much worse. Prior to social media the crazies of the world at least had to go out and physically seek individuals to follow them. Now every racist hater in the universe has a platform available in which to influence and brainwash the masses. It is the perfect opportunity to pounce on the weak minded, those that have some sort of beef with something that is going wrong in their lives, etc.
We also didn't used to have news 24/7, and personally I think it is one of the very worst things that ever happened to us. Watching it for 30 minutes makes me sad, angry and depressed...
Throw into the mix that we no longer have any sense of community. Like dj said, it is every man for himself. And we certainly don't want to burden anyone by making them wait a WHOLE 72 hours to obtain a weapon while someone does a background check. Imagine the utter horror of that...and mental health screenings, why on earth would we need those pesky little things. It is everyone's God given right to have a gun if they want one. It obviously doesn't matter in the least what they intend to do with it Canada has social media. Canada has news 24/7, and yet........
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2022 15:15:22 GMT -5
I have no evidence or statistics readily available so this is all conjecture on my part, but I think a lot of things have come into play over the last 20 years that could be making mental health issues much worse. Prior to social media the crazies of the world at least had to go out and physically seek individuals to follow them. Now every racist hater in the universe has a platform available in which to influence and brainwash the masses. It is the perfect opportunity to pounce on the weak minded, those that have some sort of beef with something that is going wrong in their lives, etc.
We also didn't used to have news 24/7, and personally I think it is one of the very worst things that ever happened to us. Watching it for 30 minutes makes me sad, angry and depressed...
Throw into the mix that we no longer have any sense of community. Like dj said, it is every man for himself. And we certainly don't want to burden anyone by making them wait a WHOLE 72 hours to obtain a weapon while someone does a background check. Imagine the utter horror of that...and mental health screenings, why on earth would we need those pesky little things. It is everyone's God given right to have a gun if they want one. It obviously doesn't matter in the least what they intend to do with it I couldn't agree with you more on all of it. I am a 2a proponent and we have several well actually alot of guns. It's crazy that you can walk into a store and walk out 30 min later with a gun. Everyone has the right to own a gun but should show the mental ability on how to handle it. A safety course on how to use and store it would be helpful. All these shootings I think are more of a mental illness issue. I don’t think everybody that commits heinous acts is mentally ill. I believe some people are just evil. And because I believe that some people are evil, I do think there is a spiritual aspect, I’m not sure “spiritual” is the right word for what I mean, but it’s the only one that comes to mind right now. But just because I believe some people are evil, I’m not saying that religion or Christianity is what will make all these horrific things stop. I don’t believe that people who don’t consider them Christians are evil either, just because they aren’t Christians. Evil is something different, and I truly believe it does exist. And people that call themselves Christians, can absolutely be evil themselves. What I believe more than anything is that if good people give up and stop trying to make the world a better place, evil will become even more powerful and we will see and experience even more tragedies and suffering.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 26, 2022 15:40:24 GMT -5
Most of these people are not mentally I’ll in the way people think. They are not schizophrenic. Few have severe depression. In addition, are we going to require a mental health evaluation before you are allowed to purchase guns, and periodically thereafter, as peoples mental health changes throughout their life.
Yeah, that’s likely. All of this talk about mental health is a smokescreen to avoid the re as l issue; the ready availability of powerful weapons that lead to the easy killing of many people in a short period of time. But republicans refuse to discuss that issue. So the killing go on.
If more guns make us safer, guven the record sales in the last few years, this should be utopia. Instead of limiting gun sales, we talk about hardening school buildings, so kids can go to prison-like schools
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justme
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Post by justme on May 26, 2022 15:54:16 GMT -5
If it was just mental health issues damn near every one of these shooters wouldn't be a white male. It would be spread more equal between races and genders. It's not. You can't explain it away by saying they were mentally ill. You just can't.
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seriousthistime
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Post by seriousthistime on May 26, 2022 16:00:54 GMT -5
I have no evidence or statistics readily available so this is all conjecture on my part, but I think a lot of things have come into play over the last 20 years that could be making mental health issues much worse. Prior to social media the crazies of the world at least had to go out and physically seek individuals to follow them. Now every racist hater in the universe has a platform available in which to influence and brainwash the masses. It is the perfect opportunity to pounce on the weak minded, those that have some sort of beef with something that is going wrong in their lives, etc.
We also didn't used to have news 24/7, and personally I think it is one of the very worst things that ever happened to us. Watching it for 30 minutes makes me sad, angry and depressed...
Throw into the mix that we no longer have any sense of community. Like dj said, it is every man for himself. And we certainly don't want to burden anyone by making them wait a WHOLE 72 hours to obtain a weapon while someone does a background check. Imagine the utter horror of that...and mental health screenings, why on earth would we need those pesky little things. It is everyone's God given right to have a gun if they want one. It obviously doesn't matter in the least what they intend to do with it I couldn't agree with you more on all of it. I am a 2a proponent and we have several well actually alot of guns. It's crazy that you can walk into a store and walk out 30 min later with a gun. Everyone has the right to own a gun but should show the mental ability on how to handle it. A safety course on how to use and store it would be helpful. All these shootings I think are more of a mental illness issue. Mental illness is not unique to the US. What is unique is the number of guns and our unwillingness to confront the lobby that promotes the "more is better" philosophy wherein the only answer to gun violence is to put more guns on the street.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 26, 2022 16:02:25 GMT -5
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on May 26, 2022 16:13:48 GMT -5
Republicans blocked a bill that would prevent people on the no fly list from buying guns. 'You are too dangerous to board a plane, but here...have a gun!' 'You have ties to terrorist groups? Here...have gun!' I can't wrap my head around that. www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36563337
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