Overturning Roe v Wade?

[pulmonarymd]

May 4, 2022 20:05:29 GMT -5 Opti said:

May 4, 2022 19:42:11 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Theses conservatives are more concerned with a 6 week embryo than they are with a 35 yo transplant patient who is a mother of two. They have no concern that they could expose the 35 yo to a potentially fatal disease and leave those children childless, but are vociferously in favor of any restrictions to protect a 6 week embryo. And they have no problem saying that.

They need to face the inhumanity of their beliefs in all their glory

Plus both your story and Dondub's could have left children motherless and husbands without a wife. 

Yes, they seem to have no concerns about those consequences. My life, and the lives of my children, would have been significantly different. But they could give 2 shits about that outcome. It all about the 6 week embryo

[Tiny]

And some other things from a facebook post that make me believe anyone who wants to ban abortion is cold and without compassion, and I'll add down right cruel:




I'm not pro-murdering babies.

I'm pro-Becky who found out at her 20 week anatomy scan that the infant she had been so excited to bring into this world had developed without life sustaining organs.

I'm pro-Susan who was sexually assaulted on her way home from work, only to come to the horrific realization that her assailant planted his seed in her when she got a positive pregnancy test result a month later.

I'm pro-Theresa who hemorrhaged due to a placental abruption, causing her parents, spouse, and children to have to make the impossible decision on whether to save her or her unborn child.

I'm pro-little Cathy who had her innocence ripped away from her by someone she should have been able to trust and her 11 year old body isn't mature enough to bear the consequence of that betrayal.

I'm pro-Melissa who's working two jobs just to make ends meet and has to choose between bringing another child into poverty or feeding the children she already has because her spouse walked out on her.

I'm pro-Brittany who realizes that she is in no way financially, emotionally, or physically able to raise a child.

I'm pro-Emily who went through IVF, ending up with SIX viable implanted eggs requiring selective reduction in order to ensure the safety of her and a SAFE amount of fetuses.

I'm pro-Christina who doesn't want to be a mother, but birth control methods sometimes fail.

I'm pro-Jessica who is FINALLY getting the strength to get away from her physically abusive spouse only to find out that she is carrying the monster's child.

I'm pro-Vanessa who went into her confirmation appointment after YEARS of trying to conceive only to hear silence where there should be a heartbeat.

I'm pro-Lindsay who lost her virginity in her sophomore year with a broken condom and now has to choose whether to be a teenage mom or just a teenager.

I'm pro-Courtney who just found out she's already 13 weeks along, but the egg never made it out of her fallopian tube so either she terminates the pregnancy or risks
dying from internal bleeding.

You can argue and say that I'm pro-choice all you want, but the truth is:

I'm pro-life.
Their lives.
Women's lives

I’m also pro-Constitution, which means that the government can’t impose any one religious group’s beliefs on the entire citizenry.
And I’m *against* Supreme Court justices who lied under oath about their respect for established legal precedent.

You don't get to pick and choose which scenarios should be accepted.

Women's rights are meant to protect ALL women, regardless of their situation!

[weltschmerz]

May 4, 2022 19:06:16 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 4, 2022 13:04:26 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

Exactly. I'd love it if scgal (or someone else) could explain why men can do whatever the fuck they want with their bodies, while women can't. Why are men making ANY choices for women, reproductively speaking?

Why does a young woman who's made the decision NOT to ever have children get told 'no, we won't perform that surgery on you' because they think she'll change her mind? Does a young man face that same ridiculous bullshit? I mean.. not all women can use birth control due to side effects. Even if they can, it can fail. Condoms fail too. So it would seem like if that young woman knows she doesn't want kids, a medical "professional" should be taking care of her wishes instead of denying them based on their opinions/feelings.

Don't make choices for others based on those you would make for yourself. Everyone should have the same right to make their own decisions.

Ok here goes I don't expect anyone here to agree with me, and I may get a time out but you asked.
When a child is born the parent or parents have an legal obligation to keep the child alive in other words don't kill the kid. When a woman becomes pregnant and a heartbeat is found a voluntary non medical necessary abortion should no longer be allowed. If it is don it should be classified as murder. 
Now the bullshit my body my choice boo hoo crap. It is our choice to have sex, protect ourselves the best we can, etc those are choices but once pregnant and a heartbeat is found it is no longer your body the only choice is to make sure we protect the baby.  

You're right....I don't agree with you.  You want to force women to have children they don't want.  You know what happens to these children?  Many are burned with cigarettes, starved, beaten, left in hot cars, or thrown in dumpsters. They're not nurtured like wanted children are.
Unwanted children tend to do poorly in life.  The jails and mental hospitals are full of them. I worked with them as adults.

Pregnancy intention also has long-term influences on child health. Children born after unintended pregnancy showed a cognitive delay at 3-years-old, more behavioral problems at 5- and 7-years-old, and increased problem behaviors and substance use at 14-years-old than their counterparts.

bmcpregnancychildbirth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12884-015-0505-4

[thyme4change]

We need to fix the foster care system, improve the adoption system, expand comprehensive sex education, expand access to birth control for women, expand access to plan B and develop a male birth control option that is systematic.

I know all the stories about women's lives being in danger. I know that is important - but the vast majority of abortions are on-demand, first trimester and only for reasons of "unwanted pregnancy". Maybe we should work more on prevention. But, we can't do that either because toxic purity culture won't allow it. 😒

[scgal]

May 4, 2022 19:25:22 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

May 4, 2022 19:06:16 GMT -5 scgal said:

Ok here goes I don't expect anyone here to agree with me, and I may get a time out but you asked.
When a child is born the parent or parents have an legal obligation to keep the child alive in other words don't kill the kid. When a woman becomes pregnant and a heartbeat is found a voluntary non medical necessary abortion should no longer be allowed. If it is don it should be classified as murder. 
Now the bullshit my body my choice boo hoo crap. It is our choice to have sex, protect ourselves the best we can, etc those are choices but once pregnant and a heartbeat is found it is no longer your body the only choice is to make sure we protect the baby.  

Yet you have no problem when invoking “my body, my choice” when it comes to vaccination. You don’t think the unvaccinated should have any duty to tell medically fragile individuals if the are vaccinated, even if it could kill them. Conservatives have no problem invoking the same phrase when it comes to masks. You sure have a strange idea of freedom.

Show me one of these conservative states that are allowing any medically necessary second trimester abortion. They all seem to be proud that they are banning all abortions. You think my wife should have had her life threatened instead of allowing an abortion. Again, your compassion is overwhelming

Posters get confused or take things out of context. I never said my body my choice on vaccinations or masks. What I said is I don't care if you were vaccinated when entering my home, an no one has the right to know if i'm vaccinated or not. Now if it was a law a person would have to comply with their vac card. If it was law you should comply. It's required to get a vaccination to go to school my kids were vaccinated.
 
Believe it or not I'm very sorry what your wife, and family went thru. If you read my post I said non medical abortions should not allowed, your wifes was medically necessary. 

If Roe gets overturned it goes back to the states. Its not that big of a deal people that believe in abortions should go to a state that coincides with their beliefs those that don't can do the same, or just deal with that states laws. 

[scgal]

May 4, 2022 20:21:48 GMT -5 Tiny said:

May 4, 2022 19:06:16 GMT -5 scgal said:

Ok here goes I don't expect anyone here to agree with me, and I may get a time out but you asked.
When a child is born the parent or parents have an legal obligation to keep the child alive in other words don't kill the kid. When a woman becomes pregnant and a heartbeat is found a voluntary non medical necessary abortion should no longer be allowed. If it is don it should be classified as murder. 
Now the bullshit my body my choice boo hoo crap. It is our choice to have sex, protect ourselves the best we can, etc those are choices but once pregnant and a heartbeat is found it is no longer your body the only choice is to make sure we protect the baby.  

That's just cold and without compassion.    I feel I can say that - as I strongly suspect I was an unwanted child.  Nothing like being a burden to  your parents and them letting you know you are in so many little ways every day.      FWIW:  my mom was 44 yo when she got pregnant with me.  I strongly suspect I was a surprise and not a happy one.  

I strongly suspect that a lot of middle aged and beyond women have abortions - when they have an unexpected and unwanted surprise.    Although maybe now a days women who have children in their 20's and early 30's get their tubes tied after they have deemed they are done having children.  But still I suspect that if a 25 year old woman says she's done having kids - that she MIGHT get some push back on getting her tubes tied.   I know a few 30 somethings that still use oral birth control... even though they have tween kids.  


Your views do  explain why so many people turn a blind eye to child abuse - as long as you don't kill the kid - it's ok to torture them.   

I find it so weird that it's super important to spend lots of money and do all sorts of things to make sure a woman brings a baby she doesn't want to term... that TAX DOLLARS are spent on this...  and then it's "Our work is done here."    No support for that mother, no money to help provide for that child, perhaps a subpar education for that child. Oh no! we can't spend OUR tax dollars on this... it's NOT our problem.    

Is human suffering an important component of your religious beliefs?     Just curious.   I grew up Catholic and suffering was VERY important.  

Let me ask you a question. Would you rather your mother had an abortion so you were never born? If you have kids they wouldn't be here grand kids etc. I find it amazing the ones that want are for abortion are already born. 

No I don't turn a blind eye to kids being tortured, but abortion is not the answer to stopping that either. 

As far as my religion sorry that's not it not very religious. I'm not pro-life either just anti- abortion

There are several programs out there to help with housing, food and medical. I do think there should be more i'm all for it.

[moon/Laura]

May 5, 2022 6:32:26 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 4, 2022 19:25:22 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Yet you have no problem when invoking “my body, my choice” when it comes to vaccination. You don’t think the unvaccinated should have any duty to tell medically fragile individuals if the are vaccinated, even if it could kill them. Conservatives have no problem invoking the same phrase when it comes to masks. You sure have a strange idea of freedom.

Show me one of these conservative states that are allowing any medically necessary second trimester abortion. They all seem to be proud that they are banning all abortions. You think my wife should have had her life threatened instead of allowing an abortion. Again, your compassion is overwhelming

Posters get confused or take things out of context. I never said my body my choice on vaccinations or masks. What I said is I don't care if you were vaccinated when entering my home, an no one has the right to know if i'm vaccinated or not. Now if it was a law a person would have to comply with their vac card. If it was law you should comply. It's required to get a vaccination to go to school my kids were vaccinated.
 
Believe it or not I'm very sorry what your wife, and family went thru. If you read my post I said non medical abortions should not allowed, your wifes was medically necessary. 

If Roe gets overturned it goes back to the states. Its not that big of a deal people that believe in abortions should go to a state that coincides with their beliefs those that don't can do the same, or just deal with that states laws. 

Really? It's just that simple to you? What about the poor who can't afford it? The woman who is raped and becomes pregnant is then going to be stuck with not only a child (or children) she didn't want/plan for, but also can't care for financially. The lifelong trauma of rape will still exist but you would want her to have to have physical proof in front of her every day? Unbelievable.

[billisonboard]

May 5, 2022 6:32:26 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 4, 2022 19:25:22 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Yet you have no problem when invoking “my body, my choice” when it comes to vaccination. You don’t think the unvaccinated should have any duty to tell medically fragile individuals if the are vaccinated, even if it could kill them. Conservatives have no problem invoking the same phrase when it comes to masks. You sure have a strange idea of freedom.

Show me one of these conservative states that are allowing any medically necessary second trimester abortion. They all seem to be proud that they are banning all abortions. You think my wife should have had her life threatened instead of allowing an abortion. Again, your compassion is overwhelming

Posters get confused or take things out of context. I never said my body my choice on vaccinations or masks. What I said is I don't care if you were vaccinated when entering my home, an no one has the right to know if i'm vaccinated or not. Now if it was a law a person would have to comply with their vac card. If it was law you should comply. It's required to get a vaccination to go to school my kids were vaccinated.
 
Believe it or not I'm very sorry what your wife, and family went thru. If you read my post I said non medical abortions should not allowed, your wifes was medically necessary. 

If Roe gets overturned it goes back to the states. Its not that big of a deal people that believe in abortions should go to a state that coincides with their beliefs those that don't can do the same, or just deal with that states laws. 

Why should government at the state level be able to dictate an abortion policy if it is not appropriate for government at the federal level to do so? Why not set it at the county government level? Washington State is divided into Health Districts. Perhaps that could be the appropriate level for policy?

[imawino]

May 5, 2022 6:49:17 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 4, 2022 20:21:48 GMT -5 Tiny said:

That's just cold and without compassion.    I feel I can say that - as I strongly suspect I was an unwanted child.  Nothing like being a burden to  your parents and them letting you know you are in so many little ways every day.      FWIW:  my mom was 44 yo when she got pregnant with me.  I strongly suspect I was a surprise and not a happy one.  

I strongly suspect that a lot of middle aged and beyond women have abortions - when they have an unexpected and unwanted surprise.    Although maybe now a days women who have children in their 20's and early 30's get their tubes tied after they have deemed they are done having children.  But still I suspect that if a 25 year old woman says she's done having kids - that she MIGHT get some push back on getting her tubes tied.   I know a few 30 somethings that still use oral birth control... even though they have tween kids.  


Your views do  explain why so many people turn a blind eye to child abuse - as long as you don't kill the kid - it's ok to torture them.   

I find it so weird that it's super important to spend lots of money and do all sorts of things to make sure a woman brings a baby she doesn't want to term... that TAX DOLLARS are spent on this...  and then it's "Our work is done here."    No support for that mother, no money to help provide for that child, perhaps a subpar education for that child. Oh no! we can't spend OUR tax dollars on this... it's NOT our problem.    

Is human suffering an important component of your religious beliefs?     Just curious.   I grew up Catholic and suffering was VERY important.  

Let me ask you a question. Would you rather your mother had an abortion so you were never born? If you have kids they wouldn't be here grand kids etc. I find it amazing the ones that want are for abortion are already born. 

No I don't turn a blind eye to kids being tortured, but abortion is not the answer to stopping that either. 

As far as my religion sorry that's not it not very religious. I'm not pro-life either just anti- abortion

There are several programs out there to help with housing, food and medical. I do think there should be more i'm all for it.

Oh my god that made me laugh.  I know you were being serious but that was unintentionally hilarious.  What exactly is the alternative to pro-choice people being actual living human beings?  Wouldn't a bunch of pro-choice zygotes or ghosts or aliens be much more amazing? Regular livings folks being for or against something is pretty run of the mill.

[Opti]

May 5, 2022 8:44:50 GMT -5 imawino said:

May 5, 2022 6:49:17 GMT -5 scgal said:

Let me ask you a question. Would you rather your mother had an abortion so you were never born? If you have kids they wouldn't be here grand kids etc. I find it amazing the ones that want are for abortion are already born. 

No I don't turn a blind eye to kids being tortured, but abortion is not the answer to stopping that either. 

As far as my religion sorry that's not it not very religious. I'm not pro-life either just anti- abortion

There are several programs out there to help with housing, food and medical. I do think there should be more i'm all for it.

Oh my god that made me laugh.  I know you were being serious but that was unintentionally hilarious.  What exactly is the alternative to pro-choice people being actual living human beings?  Wouldn't a bunch of pro-choice zygotes or ghosts or aliens be much more amazing? Regular livings folks being for or against something is pretty run of the mill.

I find it less funny that pro birthers care mostly about the birth and not so much on the process and financials of getting to that point let alone the aftercare of raising a human for 18 years or so. 

[scgal]

May 5, 2022 8:35:31 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 5, 2022 6:32:26 GMT -5 scgal said:

Posters get confused or take things out of context. I never said my body my choice on vaccinations or masks. What I said is I don't care if you were vaccinated when entering my home, an no one has the right to know if i'm vaccinated or not. Now if it was a law a person would have to comply with their vac card. If it was law you should comply. It's required to get a vaccination to go to school my kids were vaccinated.
 
Believe it or not I'm very sorry what your wife, and family went thru. If you read my post I said non medical abortions should not allowed, your wifes was medically necessary. 

If Roe gets overturned it goes back to the states. Its not that big of a deal people that believe in abortions should go to a state that coincides with their beliefs those that don't can do the same, or just deal with that states laws. 

Why should government at the state level be able to dictate an abortion policy if it is not appropriate for government at the federal level to do so? Why not set it at the county government level? Washington State is divided into Health Districts. Perhaps that could be the appropriate level for policy?

I do not think its a federal issue

[billisonboard]

May 5, 2022 9:08:42 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 5, 2022 8:35:31 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Why should government at the state level be able to dictate an abortion policy if it is not appropriate for government at the federal level to do so? Why not set it at the county government level? Washington State is divided into Health Districts. Perhaps that could be the appropriate level for policy?

I do not think its a federal issue

Why do you think it is a state issue?

[scgal]

May 5, 2022 9:00:16 GMT -5 Opti said:

May 5, 2022 8:44:50 GMT -5 imawino said:

Oh my god that made me laugh.  I know you were being serious but that was unintentionally hilarious.  What exactly is the alternative to pro-choice people being actual living human beings?  Wouldn't a bunch of pro-choice zygotes or ghosts or aliens be much more amazing? Regular livings folks being for or against something is pretty run of the mill.

I find it less funny that pro birthers care mostly about the birth and not so much on the process and financials of getting to that point let alone the aftercare of raising a human for 18 years or so. 

If someone is willing to terminate a pregnancy because of uncertain future financials is pretty low on the bar of humanity

[pulmonarymd]

May 5, 2022 9:18:39 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 5, 2022 9:00:16 GMT -5 Opti said:

I find it less funny that pro birthers care mostly about the birth and not so much on the process and financials of getting to that point let alone the aftercare of raising a human for 18 years or so. 

If someone is willing to terminate a pregnancy because of uncertain future financials is pretty low on the bar of humanity

And I think someone who refuses to be vaccinated, refuses to tell a medically vulnerable person if they are vaccinated, and refuses to wear a mask to protect other, living, breathing individual and not a 6 week blob of cells is low on the bar of humanity. Yet you disagree

[scgal]

May 5, 2022 8:44:50 GMT -5 imawino said:

May 5, 2022 6:49:17 GMT -5 scgal said:

Let me ask you a question. Would you rather your mother had an abortion so you were never born? If you have kids they wouldn't be here grand kids etc. I find it amazing the ones that want are for abortion are already born. 

No I don't turn a blind eye to kids being tortured, but abortion is not the answer to stopping that either. 

As far as my religion sorry that's not it not very religious. I'm not pro-life either just anti- abortion

There are several programs out there to help with housing, food and medical. I do think there should be more i'm all for it.

Oh my god that made me laugh.  I know you were being serious but that was unintentionally hilarious.  What exactly is the alternative to pro-choice people being actual living human beings?  Wouldn't a bunch of pro-choice zygotes or ghosts or aliens be much more amazing? Regular livings folks being for or against something is pretty run of the mill.

It was meant with satire

[billisonboard]

May 5, 2022 9:18:39 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 5, 2022 9:00:16 GMT -5 Opti said:

I find it less funny that pro birthers care mostly about the birth and not so much on the process and financials of getting to that point let alone the aftercare of raising a human for 18 years or so. 

If someone is willing to terminate a pregnancy because of uncertain future financials is pretty low on the bar of humanity

Okay. And you wish to force them to have a child.

[giramomma]

May 5, 2022 6:49:17 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 4, 2022 20:21:48 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Let me ask you a question. Would you rather your mother had an abortion so you were never born? If you have kids they wouldn't be here grand kids etc. I find it amazing the ones that want are for abortion are already born. 

No I don't turn a blind eye to kids being tortured, but abortion is not the answer to stopping that either. 

OOoh, I can answer this one.

My mom was not wanted. Her parents made sure it was known she was not wanted.

She was beaten to bloody pulp. Like, she had to wear long sleeve turtle necks in hot humid summer to cover up the brusies.

She was TOLD she was not wanted.

My mom is 76. Everything back then was rug swept.

Divorce was not a thing.

So. Here's our legacy.

My mom likely has a personality disorder. She also has suffered from clinical depression her whole entire life. Never treated.

No. My parents did not beat me to a bloody pulp. My mom *did* hit me so that I stopped breathing once when I was "annoying." The other examples of physical abuse were far and few between. My dad did give me welts once, while he was spanking me.  The other forms of abuse were more pervasive: the emotional/mental abuse. Oh, and my mom also exposed me to porn at a young age. That's borderline sexual abuse these days. Granted it was just playboy and playgirl, and these days, that's pretty mild. But, I'd still argue that 10/11 year olds shouldn't be having "family porn viewing time" and then listening to her parents discuss what they found attractive about naked adults in the name of parents being "cool."

As a child, I wasn't given a manual on how to deal with mentally unwell parents.

So. I self-injured by the time I was 10. Guess, what, that was rug swept.

I learned how to be a workaholic by the time I was 14. THAT got me out of the house. I was burned out when I started college.

I have blocked out so very, very much of my childhood.

I unknowingly married an addict. The dysfunction was really comfortable for me. My behaviors provided a ripe relationship for my husband to continue getting high.

So. My grandparents were assholes, my mom is really not a good/nice person, I got shat upon.

I broke the cycle.

My kids are healthy.

For that I am a rock star.

IS this a path that I am grateful for? Absolutely fucking not.

I AM grateful for my medical treatment to cure my cancer so that I remain upright.

I AM NOT grateful that:

-My husband took away all of my agency to make an informed decision about who I was going to marry

-I spent a good portion of my 20's and early 30's in therapy

-I had to learn how to articulate my emotions

-Self-destructive behaviors like binge drinking and hitting myself (I used to do it until I bled, thank you) are things I have to fight for my whole life

-My parents were abusive

-My mom learned how to alter history to fit her narrative. She isn't lying. But, she's not accurate either. I don't even trust the accuracy of my memories. My dad is dead. I have no siblings. Going through life not being able to trust your experience, it's a mind fuck.

Would have it been better if my mom was never born? Probably, if you want the honest truth.

ETA: I suspect that most people that are abused by their parents aren't grateful for the experience.

[scgal]

May 5, 2022 9:22:03 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

May 5, 2022 9:18:39 GMT -5 scgal said:

If someone is willing to terminate a pregnancy because of uncertain future financials is pretty low on the bar of humanity

And I think someone who refuses to be vaccinated, refuses to tell a medically vulnerable person if they are vaccinated, and refuses to wear a mask to protect other, living, breathing individual and not a 6 week blob of cells is low on the bar of humanity. Yet you disagree

and yet you are comparing 2 different situations (most democrats do with whatabouisms). I'm really not that opposed to it before a heartbeat. 
As far as masks and vulnerable people how do you know if someone is vulnerable? If the person is vulnerable the responsibility is on them to protect themselves. You won't find in any of my posts that said I refuse to where a mask. You like to keep assuming.

[scgal]

May 5, 2022 9:28:15 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 5, 2022 9:18:39 GMT -5 scgal said:

If someone is willing to terminate a pregnancy because of uncertain future financials is pretty low on the bar of humanity

Okay. And you wish to force them to have a child.

I'm not forcing them to do anything

[moon/Laura]

May 5, 2022 9:39:49 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 5, 2022 9:28:15 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Okay. And you wish to force them to have a child.

I'm not forcing them to do anything

how are you NOT forcing them? Not everyone has the same access to healthcare early in pregnancy. Women with irregular cycles may not even realize they're pregnant until after there's a heartbeat. So they may know they can't take care of a baby but because there's now a heartbeat, they are indeed going to be forced to continue the pregnancy because they may also not be able to afford traveling to a state where abortion is legal.

[Opti]

May 5, 2022 9:18:39 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 5, 2022 9:00:16 GMT -5 Opti said:

I find it less funny that pro birthers care mostly about the birth and not so much on the process and financials of getting to that point let alone the aftercare of raising a human for 18 years or so. 

If someone is willing to terminate a pregnancy because of uncertain future financials is pretty low on the bar of humanity

Uncertain future financials, are you for real? It is generally about current financials which are crappy and unlikely to improve in the near future. I think forcing someone to have a child who will be undernourished and living life in poverty not on the high end of humanity. 

[scgal]

May 5, 2022 9:35:12 GMT -5 giramomma said:

May 5, 2022 6:49:17 GMT -5 scgal said:

Let me ask you a question. Would you rather your mother had an abortion so you were never born? If you have kids they wouldn't be here grand kids etc. I find it amazing the ones that want are for abortion are already born. 

No I don't turn a blind eye to kids being tortured, but abortion is not the answer to stopping that either. 

As far as my religion sorry that's not it not very religious. I'm not pro-life either just anti- abortion

There are several programs out there to help with housing, food and medical. I do think there should be more i'm all for it.

OOoh, I can answer this one.

My mom was not wanted. Her parents made sure it was known she was not wanted.

She was beaten to bloody pulp. Like, she had to wear long sleeve turtle necks in hot humid summer to cover up the brusies.

She was TOLD she was not wanted.

My mom is 76. Everything back then was rug swept.

Divorce was not a thing.

So. Here's our legacy.

My mom likely has a personality disorder. She also has suffered from clinical depression her whole entire life.

No. My parents did not beat me to a bloody pulp. My mom *did* hit me so that I stopped breathing once when I was "annoying." The other examples of physical abuse were far and few between. My dad did give me welts once, while he was spanking me.  The other forms of abuse were more pervasive: the emotional/mental abuse. Oh, and my mom also exposed me to porn at a young age. That's borderline sexual abuse these days. Granted it was just playboy and playgirl, and these days, that's pretty mild. But, I'd still argue that 10/11 year olds shouldn't be having "family porn viewing time" and then listening to her parents discuss what they found attractive about naked adults in the name of parents being "cool."

As a child, I wasn't given a manual on how to deal with mentally unwell parents.

So. I self-injured by the time I was 10. Guess, what, that was rug swept.

I learned how to be a workaholic by the time I was 14. THAT got me out of the house. I was burned out when I started college.

I have blocked out so very, very much of my childhood.

I unknowingly married an addict. 

So. My grandparents were assholes, my mom is really not a good/nice person, I got shat upon.

I broke the cycle.

My kids are healthy.

For that I am a rock star.

IS this a path that I am grateful for? Absolutely fucking not.

I AM grateful for my medical treatment to cure my cancer so that I remain upright.

I AM NOT grateful that:

-My husband took away all of my agency to make an informed decision about who I was going to marry

-I spent a good portion of my 20's and early 30's in therapy

-I had to learn how to articulate my emotions

-Self-destructive behaviors like binge drinking and hitting myself (I used to do it until I bled, thank you) are things I have to fight for my whole life

-My parents were abusive

-My mom learned how to alter history to fit her narrative. She isn't lying. But, she's not accurate either. I don't even trust the accuracy of my memories. My dad is dead. I have no siblings. Going through life not being able to trust your experience, it's a mind fuck.

Would have it been better if my mom was never born? Probably, if you want the honest truth.

ETA: I suspect that most people that are abused by their parents aren't grateful for the experience.

Thank you for sharing must have been hard to do that. Reading your story a comment stuck out to me broke the cycle. My husband and I both came from abusive households alcohol, drugs, physical abuse. We use that comment all the time we broke the cycle. So yes I am fully aware that bad things happen it can be overcome and people can heal and move on. I don't think abortion is the answer to any of that

[pulmonarymd]

May 5, 2022 9:38:21 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 5, 2022 9:22:03 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

And I think someone who refuses to be vaccinated, refuses to tell a medically vulnerable person if they are vaccinated, and refuses to wear a mask to protect other, living, breathing individual and not a 6 week blob of cells is low on the bar of humanity. Yet you disagree

and yet you are comparing 2 different situations (most democrats do with whatabouisms). I'm really not that opposed to it before a heartbeat. 
As far as masks and vulnerable people how do you know if someone is vulnerable? If the person is vulnerable the responsibility is on them to protect themselves. You won't find in any of my posts that said I refuse to where a mask. You like to keep assuming.

Do I have a right to know if you are vaccinated? Yes or no.
Does the government have the right to force you to wear a mask?, Require someone to be vaccinated?
If they do not, why do they have the right to interfere in other private health care decisions?

You are correct, you do not know who is vulnerable. That is why we need to take precautions and get everyone vaccinated, and for everyone to do their part to keep those at risk safer. Yet a large proportion of republicans refuse to do so. If someone has an abortion, it has no effect on you. If you refuse to vaccinate or mask, you could kill me or someone I care about. Yet you are far more concerned about something that has no effect on you, and miss the second point.

[giramomma]

May 5, 2022 9:49:11 GMT -5 scgal said:

Thank you for sharing must have been hard to do that. Reading your story a comment stuck out to me broke the cycle. My husband and I both came from abusive households alcohol, drugs, physical abuse. We use that comment all the time we broke the cycle. So yes I am fully aware that bad things happen it can be overcome and people can heal and move on. I don't think abortion is the answer to any of that

Actually, I've been around here long enough that most everything is known already.

The point you are missing, though is that people always CAN'T move on.

My mom is a great example of that. More importantly, she WON'T move on.

So, again, in her case, it probably would have been better for her to not exist, rather than my grandparent's shit passed down like grandma's favorite china.

The truth of the matter is I am not special. You are not special. I'm just a cog in a wheel that keeps turning. I'm not naive enough to think that if my mom didn't exist, and therefore that I didn't exist...my husband would never marry or have kids.

He probably would and he'd have kids.

It's not like if we never would have met my husband would be living some imperfect, unfulfilled life.

Same thing with work. There would be others doing the job(s) that I do. Both my dayjob and my side job.

If you wanted to talk about the specialness of humans,, that's far and few between. Most of us really are quite ordinary.

ETA: Like it or not, we are replaceable.

[mollyc]

Whether satire or not, what if your mother aborted you is pointless. If I was never born, I wouldn’t have the capacity to know or care that I was aborted.

All other things staying the same, my absence would have made my parents and older siblings lives easier with one less mouth to feed. Maybe being pregnant with my younger sister wouldn’t have almost killed my mother if there was no pregnancy between DB2 and DS2. Even if my mom still was hospitalized for 3 months before the emergency c-section, they wouldn’t have had to find full time care because everyone else was in school full time. One less stress for my mom.

[scgal]

May 5, 2022 9:47:08 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

May 5, 2022 9:39:49 GMT -5 scgal said:

I'm not forcing them to do anything

how are you NOT forcing them? Not everyone has the same access to healthcare early in pregnancy. Women with irregular cycles may not even realize they're pregnant until after there's a heartbeat. So they may know they can't take care of a baby but because there's now a heartbeat, they are indeed going to be forced to continue the pregnancy because they may also not be able to afford traveling to a state where abortion is legal.

Like I said i'm not forcing them to do anything. 
I'm going to take rape out the equation for now that needs to go into another level. On just using abortion as a form of birth control I didn't force anyone to have sex either maybe better sex education would be better

[giramomma]

And, yes, I agree with others we should focus on prevention so that we don't even need to have abortion as an option.

But, that's not reality. It's not GOING to be reality.

I can't operate my life in hopes in dreams. I have to operate based on reality.

The REALITY is that folks in power are NOT interested in preventing most reasons for abortion.

Wishes in one hand, shit in the other.

Therefore, based on REALITY, abortion still needs to be an option.

[djAdvocate]

May 4, 2022 19:06:16 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 4, 2022 13:04:26 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

Exactly. I'd love it if scgal (or someone else) could explain why men can do whatever the fuck they want with their bodies, while women can't. Why are men making ANY choices for women, reproductively speaking?

Why does a young woman who's made the decision NOT to ever have children get told 'no, we won't perform that surgery on you' because they think she'll change her mind? Does a young man face that same ridiculous bullshit? I mean.. not all women can use birth control due to side effects. Even if they can, it can fail. Condoms fail too. So it would seem like if that young woman knows she doesn't want kids, a medical "professional" should be taking care of her wishes instead of denying them based on their opinions/feelings.

Don't make choices for others based on those you would make for yourself. Everyone should have the same right to make their own decisions.

Ok here goes I don't expect anyone here to agree with me, and I may get a time out but you asked.
1) When a child is born the parent or parents have an legal obligation to keep the child alive in other words don't kill the kid. 2) When a woman becomes pregnant and a heartbeat is found a voluntary non medical necessary abortion should no longer be allowed. If it is don it should be classified as murder. 
3) Now the bullshit my body my choice boo hoo crap. It is our choice to have sex, protect ourselves the best we can, etc those are choices but once pregnant and a heartbeat is found it is no longer your body the only choice is to make sure we protect the baby.  

1) born being the key word.  we are not talking about BORN children.
2) a fetus is not a fully developed human being.  when someone kills rats in their house, we don't call it murder.  i am fine with calling it killing.  but by your standard, a woman who miscarries is a murderer.
3) we don't ALL have a choice to have sex.  rape victims, incest victims, children under the age of 18- none of them CONSENT to sex.  i think it is profoundly unfair to sentence someone to a life with an unwanted child- both for MOTHER AND BABY.  

i get all of the "boo hoo" moralizing about the unborn on the right.  but to think it is any LESS fetishistic than the "boo hoo" moralizing on the left about women's right, is completely without any human empathy.

[djAdvocate]

May 5, 2022 6:32:26 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 4, 2022 19:25:22 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Yet you have no problem when invoking “my body, my choice” when it comes to vaccination. You don’t think the unvaccinated should have any duty to tell medically fragile individuals if the are vaccinated, even if it could kill them. Conservatives have no problem invoking the same phrase when it comes to masks. You sure have a strange idea of freedom.

Show me one of these conservative states that are allowing any medically necessary second trimester abortion. They all seem to be proud that they are banning all abortions. You think my wife should have had her life threatened instead of allowing an abortion. Again, your compassion is overwhelming

Posters get confused or take things out of context. I never said my body my choice on vaccinations or masks. What I said is I don't care if you were vaccinated when entering my home, an no one has the right to know if i'm vaccinated or not. Now if it was a law a person would have to comply with their vac card. If it was law you should comply. It's required to get a vaccination to go to school my kids were vaccinated.
 
Believe it or not I'm very sorry what your wife, and family went thru. If you read my post I said non medical abortions should not allowed, your wifes was medically necessary. 

If Roe gets overturned it goes back to the states. Its not that big of a deal people that believe in abortions should go to a state that coincides with their beliefs those that don't can do the same, or just deal with that states laws. 

until it is outlawed by CONGRESS.  do you really think that is not coming?  

how quaint.

[djAdvocate]

May 5, 2022 9:57:13 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 5, 2022 9:47:08 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

how are you NOT forcing them? Not everyone has the same access to healthcare early in pregnancy. Women with irregular cycles may not even realize they're pregnant until after there's a heartbeat. So they may know they can't take care of a baby but because there's now a heartbeat, they are indeed going to be forced to continue the pregnancy because they may also not be able to afford traveling to a state where abortion is legal.

Like I said i'm not forcing them to do anything. 
I'm going to take rape out the equation for now that needs to go into another level. On just using abortion as a form of birth control I didn't force anyone to have sex either maybe better sex education would be better

got it.  you are not a rapist.
that is good to hear.

but it actually has nothing to do with the subject, or the issues.
if you could stop bringing it up as if it did, that would be nice.

sex is not always a choice.  unwanted pregnancy is not always a choice.
until you explain how you deal with that problem, repeating your trope about "sex is a choice" is just IGNORING the issue.