Overturning Roe v Wade?

[billisonboard]

Supreme Court draft opinion that would overturn Roe v. Wade published by Politico

In a stunning breach of Supreme Court confidentiality, Politico has obtained what it calls a draft of a majority opinion written by Justice Samuel Alito that would strike down Roe v. Wade.

[Tennesseer]

Watching.

Wait until the videos of the senate hearings as they interviewed Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett for their seats on SCOTUS and their opinion of Roe v. Wade and abortion hit the airwaves.

[Value Buy]

If this was released by someone inside the Supreme Court, have we now lost the third branch of Government to political insanity?
I do not remember anything being released early to the public before the decision has been reached.

Articles are always written by people outside of the Court  thinking what the Court will do are always out there, but this sounds like someone has an agenda.
I do not think any standing Judge on the Court would have any part of this, and are as upset as everyone else on the Court probably is tonight. 
Probably an aide to one of the Justices?

[billisonboard]

May 2, 2022 22:25:33 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

If this was released by someone inside the Supreme Court, have we now lost the third branch of Government to political insanity?
I do not remember anything being released early to the public before the decision has been reached.

Articles are always written by people outside of the Court  thinking what the Court will do are always out there, but this sounds like someone has an agenda.
I do not think any standing Judge on the Court would have any part of this, and are as upset as everyone else on the Court probably is tonight. 
Probably an aide to one of the Justices?

I don't share your confidence that a Justice didn't play a role in the peak. Who would benefit from the release? It does make it difficult for the conservatives to back out of making it official.

[Value Buy]

May 2, 2022 23:09:18 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 2, 2022 22:25:33 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

If this was released by someone inside the Supreme Court, have we now lost the third branch of Government to political insanity?
I do not remember anything being released early to the public before the decision has been reached.

Articles are always written by people outside of the Court  thinking what the Court will do are always out there, but this sounds like someone has an agenda.
I do not think any standing Judge on the Court would have any part of this, and are as upset as everyone else on the Court probably is tonight. 
Probably an aide to one of the Justices?

I don't share your confidence that a Justice didn't play a role in the peak. Who would benefit from the release? It does make it difficult for the conservatives to back out of making it official.

Maybe I am a little too nieve, or want to believe a Supreme Court Justice would be above this act. I certainly hope not, as if they did, they do not honor our system and are trying to put an extra finger on the scale of Justice. I believe even a hard left Jurist on the Supreme Court would not do this. I hope a far right one would be above this also, and see no upside for the conservative members to release it prematurely. 

[happyhoix]

May 2, 2022 23:09:18 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 2, 2022 22:25:33 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

If this was released by someone inside the Supreme Court, have we now lost the third branch of Government to political insanity?
I do not remember anything being released early to the public before the decision has been reached.

Articles are always written by people outside of the Court  thinking what the Court will do are always out there, but this sounds like someone has an agenda.
I do not think any standing Judge on the Court would have any part of this, and are as upset as everyone else on the Court probably is tonight. 
Probably an aide to one of the Justices?

I don't share your confidence that a Justice didn't play a role in the peak. Who would benefit from the release? It does make it difficult for the conservatives to back out of making it official.

Yep - this totally came from an opposing supreme or his clerk.

Polls on this topic show 70% of the population think this is a decision that should be left to the individual at least through the first trimester. Releasing it now, before it is finalized, may allow some changes to the final version, especially when SCOTUS gets feedback from the 70 %.

Video this AM showing protesters outside the courthouse.

[happyhoix]

May 3, 2022 6:43:18 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

May 2, 2022 23:09:18 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I don't share your confidence that a Justice didn't play a role in the peak. Who would benefit from the release? It does make it difficult for the conservatives to back out of making it official.

Maybe I am a little too nieve, or want to believe a Supreme Court Justice would be above this act. I certainly hope not, as if they did, they do not honor our system and are trying to put an extra finger on the scale of Justice. I believe even a hard left Jurist on the Supreme Court would not do this. I hope a far right one would be above this also, and see no upside for the conservative members to release it prematurely. 

Supreme Court is supposed to be above politics, that’s true.

However do you think the conservative members of the court are properly reviewing Roe vs Wade and its 50 years of precedence as a law by suddenly declaring Roe was wrong? Seems like the conservative judges are indulging in politics themselves, ignoring both precedent and public opinion.

[happyhoix]

I’m expecting a push by the 70% to expand the court.

[Value Buy]

May 3, 2022 7:04:34 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

May 3, 2022 6:43:18 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Maybe I am a little too nieve, or want to believe a Supreme Court Justice would be above this act. I certainly hope not, as if they did, they do not honor our system and are trying to put an extra finger on the scale of Justice. I believe even a hard left Jurist on the Supreme Court would not do this. I hope a far right one would be above this also, and see no upside for the conservative members to release it prematurely. 

Supreme Court is supposed to be above politics, that’s true.

However do you think the conservative members of the court are properly reviewing Roe vs Wade and its 50 years of precedence as a law by suddenly declaring Roe was wrong? Seems like the conservative judges are indulging in politics themselves, ignoring both precedent and public opinion.

My understanding is abortion wil not be outlawed. The way I read two articles, the court review was suggesting the states would decide what abortion standards were to be allowed. Yes, some states would make it all but impossible. Others would open it up to the previous levels that were allowed.  FYI, I do not believe in abortion but also know it should be an option for women for so many reasons, some I disagree with, but I do not believe I have the right to impose the limits. 

[Value Buy]

May 3, 2022 7:05:45 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I’m expecting a push by the 70% to expand the court.

Better get it done before December 31st

[billisonboard]

May 3, 2022 9:14:09 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

May 3, 2022 7:04:34 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Supreme Court is supposed to be above politics, that’s true.

However do you think the conservative members of the court are properly reviewing Roe vs Wade and its 50 years of precedence as a law by suddenly declaring Roe was wrong? Seems like the conservative judges are indulging in politics themselves, ignoring both precedent and public opinion.

My understanding is abortion wil not be outlawed. The way I read two articles, the court review was suggesting the states would decide what abortion standards were to be allowed. Yes, some states would make it all but impossible. Others would open it up to the previous levels that were allowed.  FYI, I do not believe in abortion but also know it should be an option for women for so many reasons, some I disagree with, but I do not believe I have the right to impose the limits. 

The decision would remove the federal right to abortion. This would initially make it a state by state decision. Many states already have "trigger" laws on the books that will ban abortion, some with zero exceptions. It is an open question on the power of the federal government to pass a federal ban. Another open question is the power of a state to make it illegal for a woman to travel from a state in which it is illegal to have a legal abortion in another state.

[happyhoix]

May 3, 2022 9:14:09 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

May 3, 2022 7:04:34 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Supreme Court is supposed to be above politics, that’s true.

However do you think the conservative members of the court are properly reviewing Roe vs Wade and its 50 years of precedence as a law by suddenly declaring Roe was wrong? Seems like the conservative judges are indulging in politics themselves, ignoring both precedent and public opinion.

My understanding is abortion wil not be outlawed. The way I read two articles, the court review was suggesting the states would decide what abortion standards were to be allowed. Yes, some states would make it all but impossible. Others would open it up to the previous levels that were allowed.  FYI, I do not believe in abortion but also know it should be an option for women for so many reasons, some I disagree with, but I do not believe I have the right to impose the limits. 

Some states already have a Law on their books that if Roe vs Wade goes away abortions immediately became illegal in that state. Some, like Michigan, have and old law that was never changed against abortions that became moot once Toe vs Wade went through, so they would also outlaw abortion unless they revoke that law.

[billisonboard]

May 3, 2022 9:15:03 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

May 3, 2022 7:05:45 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I’m expecting a push by the 70% to expand the court.

Better get it done before December 31st

Expand, nominate, consent by that date. Would be nearly impossible.

[happyhoix]

This will impact poor people the most - can’t afford birth control, can’t afford to travel to a state that allows abortions.

Texas is already experiencing this with their new laws making abortions almost impossible to get. They were very excited to announce, after the passage of their new law, that they had reduced abortions by 60% in their state.

Except that women’s health experts pointed out about the same number of Texas women were still having abortions, but they just went to a neighboring state to have them.

So yay for Texas, making women go to Oklahoma for what they need - that’s worth celebrating I suppose?

[happyhoix]

I’m still curious about the morning after pill. About 40 percent of terminations happen that way now. What’s to stop a clinic in NYC selling them on line to women in states that don’t allow abortions?

They’re going to open every ones mail? Isn’t that a federal offense?

[pulmonarymd]

You will eventually get a belt of states that outlawed abortion. Travelling to get one will become much more difficult unless you live close to the edge of that belt, and states like Texas, Alabama, MS will have effectively eliminated abortion for all their residents. Only the daughters of the rich will be able to get them because they will be able to get on a plane and take time off work. Who cares about the poor. Hope they enjoy the increase in their welfare case load.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

May 3, 2022 10:03:25 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

This will impact poor people the most - can’t afford birth control, can’t afford to travel to a state that allows abortions.

Texas is already experiencing this with their new laws making abortions almost impossible to get. They were very excited to announce, after the passage of their new law, that they had reduced abortions by 60% in their state.

Except that women’s health experts pointed out about the same number of Texas women were still having abortions, but they just went to a neighboring state to have them.

So yay for Texas, making women go to Oklahoma for what they need - that’s worth celebrating I suppose?

No celebration.

www.cnn.com/2022/04/28/politics/oklahoma-heartbeat-act/index.html

[happyhoix]

Senator Collins is mad. She claims to support abortion rights but voted to confirm Kavanaugh and Gorsch because they both told her they revered precedent and wouldn’t try to overthrow Roe vs Wade.

Surprise!

[happyhoix]

May 3, 2022 9:33:25 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

May 3, 2022 9:15:03 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Better get it done before December 31st

Expand, nominate, consent by that date. Would be nearly impossible.

What would be the chances would be if codifying Roe vs Wade?

[chiver78]

May 3, 2022 10:12:04 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Senator Collins is mad. She claims to support abortion rights but voted to confirm Kavanaugh and Gorsch because they both told her they revered precedent and wouldn’t try to overthrow Roe vs Wade.

Surprise!

it is long past time for her to retire. 

[happyhoix]

May 3, 2022 10:09:37 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

You will eventually get a belt of states that outlawed abortion. Travelling to get one will become much more difficult unless you live close to the edge of that belt, and states like Texas, Alabama, MS will have effectively eliminated abortion for all their residents. Only the daughters of the rich will be able to get them because they will be able to get on a plane and take time off work. Who cares about the poor. Hope they enjoy the increase in their welfare case load.

We could start charities to raise money to help poor women go out of state, much like those charities to spay dogs and cats.

Except some states have made it a criminal offense to even drive a woman to an out of state clinic.

At what point do we just admit all these laws are not really intended to protect the health of the mother, as the far righties like to claim.

[minnesotapaintlady]

May 3, 2022 10:07:18 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I’m still curious about the morning after pill. About 40 percent of terminations happen that way now. What’s to stop a clinic in NYC selling them on line to women in states that don’t allow abortions?

They’re going to open every ones mail? Isn’t that a federal offense?

I'm not sure if you're confusing Plan B with Abortion pills, but the morning after pill is over the counter and prevents pregnancy from ever happening, it doesn't terminate a pregnancy.

I know a lot of people, especially in the at risk states, are buying up lots of morning after pills from Amazon.

[pulmonarymd]

May 3, 2022 10:18:19 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

May 3, 2022 10:09:37 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

You will eventually get a belt of states that outlawed abortion. Travelling to get one will become much more difficult unless you live close to the edge of that belt, and states like Texas, Alabama, MS will have effectively eliminated abortion for all their residents. Only the daughters of the rich will be able to get them because they will be able to get on a plane and take time off work. Who cares about the poor. Hope they enjoy the increase in their welfare case load.

We could start charities to raise money to help poor women go out of state, much like those charities to spay dogs and cats.

Except some states have made it a criminal offense to even drive a woman to an out of state clinic.

At what point do we just admit all these laws are not really intended to protect the health of the mother, as the far righties like to claim.

That is just a way to make them feel like they are good people. Ut has nothing to do with maternal health. The law of unintended consequences will need to be paid however. I can imagine there will be some difficulty recruiting OB-GYN providers if these laws pass. More importantly, there are some procedures that pregnant women with second semester pregnancy losses need to have done. These are the same procedures that are used for second semester abortions. You will lose the providers who have the expertise to do those procedures. It may put the health of those mothers at risk, but hey, why should they care.

[pulmonarymd]

May 3, 2022 10:12:04 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Senator Collins is mad. She claims to support abortion rights but voted to confirm Kavanaugh and Gorsch because they both told her they revered precedent and wouldn’t try to overthrow Roe vs Wade.

Surprise!

Back when her party had a platform, overturning Roe vs Wade was a major part of the platform. Doesn't say much for her intelligence or honesty if she is shocked that they may have finally accomplished it

[bean29]

May 3, 2022 10:12:04 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Senator Collins is mad. She claims to support abortion rights but voted to confirm Kavanaugh and Gorsch because they both told her they revered precedent and wouldn’t try to overthrow Roe vs Wade.

Surprise!

Plausible deniability.  I don't think she was ever pro-choice.  She just wanted to appear to be Pro-Choice so she could get elected in a purple district/state.  Kavanagh and Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett were pretty obvious where they stood.  To claim they assured her in a private meeting that they would not overturn Roe v. Wade, I call B.S.  They may have an agreement that she can say that, but she is as dumb as a rock if they said that and she believed it.

[happyhoix]

May 3, 2022 10:28:03 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

May 3, 2022 10:07:18 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I’m still curious about the morning after pill. About 40 percent of terminations happen that way now. What’s to stop a clinic in NYC selling them on line to women in states that don’t allow abortions?

They’re going to open every ones mail? Isn’t that a federal offense?

I'm not sure if you're confusing Plan B with Abortion pills, but the morning after pill is over the counter and prevents pregnancy from ever happening, it doesn't terminate a pregnancy.

I know a lot of people, especially in the at risk states, are buying up lots of morning after pills from Amazon.

Hmm I’ll have to find the article I read about Georgia or was it Texas?) that made it illegal to sell what I assumed was the morning after pill in that state. Which made me wonder why they couldn’t buy it in New York and get it in the mail.

We certainly allow a lot of ED meds to be sold that way.

[minnesotapaintlady]

May 3, 2022 11:18:45 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

May 3, 2022 10:28:03 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I'm not sure if you're confusing Plan B with Abortion pills, but the morning after pill is over the counter and prevents pregnancy from ever happening, it doesn't terminate a pregnancy.

I know a lot of people, especially in the at risk states, are buying up lots of morning after pills from Amazon.

Hmm I’ll have to find the article I read about Georgia or was it Texas?) that made it illegal to sell what I assumed was the morning after pill in that state. Which made me wonder why they couldn’t buy it in New York and get it in the mail.

We certainly allow a lot of ED meds to be sold that way.

There are abortion pills and they might have made them illegal in TX I don't know.  But they are given when you are actually pregnant to induce abortion.  The morning after pill is contraception and only good for 72 hours after sex.

[happyhoix]

May 3, 2022 11:30:31 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

May 3, 2022 11:18:45 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Hmm I’ll have to find the article I read about Georgia or was it Texas?) that made it illegal to sell what I assumed was the morning after pill in that state. Which made me wonder why they couldn’t buy it in New York and get it in the mail.

We certainly allow a lot of ED meds to be sold that way.

There are abortion pills and they might have made them illegal in TX I don't know.  But they are given when you are actually pregnant to induce abortion.  The morning after pill is contraception and only good for 72 hours after sex.

Ok thanks I was confusing the two in my mind. Presumably the morning after pill will still be available.

[giramomma]

May 3, 2022 10:28:03 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I know a lot of people, especially in the at risk states, are buying up lots of morning after pills from Amazon.

You know, that isn't something I thought of.  MN isn't that far of a drive for us, though.

I'm also concerned about what other things are coming down the pipeline.

Griswold v. Connecticut could be next.

[pulmonarymd]

May 3, 2022 11:42:54 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

May 3, 2022 11:30:31 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

There are abortion pills and they might have made them illegal in TX I don't know.  But they are given when you are actually pregnant to induce abortion.  The morning after pill is contraception and only good for 72 hours after sex.

Ok thanks I was confusing the two in my mind. Presumably the morning after pill will still be available.

I wouldn't be so sure. They have their sight set on that as well