Overturning Roe v Wade?

[justme]

Oh look a tweet from 3 years ago that's still relevant. Look how much progress we've made. /s

[Tennesseer]

‘Theocratic’ US abortion bans will violate religious liberty, faith leaders say

Misha Sanders was starting over. She had just left an abusive relationship, and she was in her first semester of seminary, all while caring for her child, a teenager with a pressing health problem.

That’s when she found out she was pregnant. Sanders took misoprostol and mifepristone, the two drugs known collectively as the abortion pill, to end the pregnancy.

The decision, she says, was deeply entwined with her religious beliefs, which include respecting full bodily autonomy and caring for other people – core beliefs of Unitarian Universalism, which she practices.

“The only decision that I could make, as a loving mother, was to focus on mothering this child that I brought into the world and terminating this new pregnancy,” Sanders said. “It was absolutely the right decision.”

But Sanders now lives in Georgia, which could pass restrictions on abortion after six weeks of pregnancy if Roe v Wade is overturned in the coming weeks.

Reproductive rights are under threat in the US as states implement harsher restrictions and the supreme court weighs a case that is widely expected to reverse the constitutional right to abortion.

But while religious arguments around the issue are commonly associated with the anti-abortion movement, abortion restrictions can violate the right to religious liberty, faith leaders and legal experts say. And some organizations are already gearing up for possible legal challenges to looming abortion bans.

Religious liberty for people of all faiths is protected under the US constitution, state constitutions and federal statutes.

In Judaism, abortion is usually seen as permissible and even required in cases where the patient’s life is at risk. In Islam, scholars contend that abortion is allowed for the first 120 days, after which it’s seen as a civil – not a criminal – issue, and it’s permitted at any time when the health of the mother is in danger. Other believers, including within Christianity, focus on the sacredness of the individual or the family to make such decisions, rather than prosecutors or lawmakers.

Complete article here: ‘Theocratic’ US abortion bans will violate religious liberty, faith leaders say

[djAdvocate]

Jun 4, 2022 11:53:29 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

‘Theocratic’ US abortion bans will violate religious liberty, faith leaders say

Misha Sanders was starting over. She had just left an abusive relationship, and she was in her first semester of seminary, all while caring for her child, a teenager with a pressing health problem.

That’s when she found out she was pregnant. Sanders took misoprostol and mifepristone, the two drugs known collectively as the abortion pill, to end the pregnancy.

The decision, she says, was deeply entwined with her religious beliefs, which include respecting full bodily autonomy and caring for other people – core beliefs of Unitarian Universalism, which she practices.

“The only decision that I could make, as a loving mother, was to focus on mothering this child that I brought into the world and terminating this new pregnancy,” Sanders said. “It was absolutely the right decision.”

But Sanders now lives in Georgia, which could pass restrictions on abortion after six weeks of pregnancy if Roe v Wade is overturned in the coming weeks.

Reproductive rights are under threat in the US as states implement harsher restrictions and the supreme court weighs a case that is widely expected to reverse the constitutional right to abortion.

But while religious arguments around the issue are commonly associated with the anti-abortion movement, abortion restrictions can violate the right to religious liberty, faith leaders and legal experts say. And some organizations are already gearing up for possible legal challenges to looming abortion bans.

Religious liberty for people of all faiths is protected under the US constitution, state constitutions and federal statutes.

In Judaism, abortion is usually seen as permissible and even required in cases where the patient’s life is at risk. In Islam, scholars contend that abortion is allowed for the first 120 days, after which it’s seen as a civil – not a criminal – issue, and it’s permitted at any time when the health of the mother is in danger. Other believers, including within Christianity, focus on the sacredness of the individual or the family to make such decisions, rather than prosecutors or lawmakers.

Complete article here: ‘Theocratic’ US abortion bans will violate religious liberty, faith leaders say

that is an interesting approach.

if there is no scientific reason, it must be a religious one.
if it is a religious one, then establishing laws against it is a first amendment violation.

is that the basic logic?

[Tennesseer]

Jun 8, 2022 17:47:46 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 4, 2022 11:53:29 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

‘Theocratic’ US abortion bans will violate religious liberty, faith leaders say

Misha Sanders was starting over. She had just left an abusive relationship, and she was in her first semester of seminary, all while caring for her child, a teenager with a pressing health problem.

That’s when she found out she was pregnant. Sanders took misoprostol and mifepristone, the two drugs known collectively as the abortion pill, to end the pregnancy.

The decision, she says, was deeply entwined with her religious beliefs, which include respecting full bodily autonomy and caring for other people – core beliefs of Unitarian Universalism, which she practices.

“The only decision that I could make, as a loving mother, was to focus on mothering this child that I brought into the world and terminating this new pregnancy,” Sanders said. “It was absolutely the right decision.”

But Sanders now lives in Georgia, which could pass restrictions on abortion after six weeks of pregnancy if Roe v Wade is overturned in the coming weeks.

Reproductive rights are under threat in the US as states implement harsher restrictions and the supreme court weighs a case that is widely expected to reverse the constitutional right to abortion.

But while religious arguments around the issue are commonly associated with the anti-abortion movement, abortion restrictions can violate the right to religious liberty, faith leaders and legal experts say. And some organizations are already gearing up for possible legal challenges to looming abortion bans.

Religious liberty for people of all faiths is protected under the US constitution, state constitutions and federal statutes.

In Judaism, abortion is usually seen as permissible and even required in cases where the patient’s life is at risk. In Islam, scholars contend that abortion is allowed for the first 120 days, after which it’s seen as a civil – not a criminal – issue, and it’s permitted at any time when the health of the mother is in danger. Other believers, including within Christianity, focus on the sacredness of the individual or the family to make such decisions, rather than prosecutors or lawmakers.

Complete article here: ‘Theocratic’ US abortion bans will violate religious liberty, faith leaders say

that is an interesting approach.

if there is no scientific reason, it must be a religious one.
if it is a religious one, then establishing laws against it is a first amendment violation.

is that the basic logic?

Yes.

[billisonboard]

Opinion: A lot of young women worry about the end of Roe. I would celebrate it

After Roe, I believe it will be possible for our nation to be one that doesn't cast judgment on women who become pregnant, but one that embraces them with love and compassion. 

Oh, the things young people can believe.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 20, 2022 15:24:28 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Opinion: A lot of young women worry about the end of Roe. I would celebrate it

After Roe, I believe it will be possible for our nation to be one that doesn't cast judgment on women who become pregnant, but one that embraces them with love and compassion. 

Oh, the things young people can believe.

I read it too and my eyes almost rolled out of my head.

Someone needs to get out of her straight white middle class privileged bubble and go talk to the women who will be impacted the most by repealing R v W.   Women who don't have the luxuries that she has when choosing what to do if she gets pregnant.  To stand there and claim that if they just talked to a pregnancy center everything will be fine is cruel optimism. 

I certainly agree with her about needing better comprehensive sex education and care.  I do not agree with her that this magical utopia is going to happen because they repealed R v W.  If that was true then it should have existed before Roe came into affect and we all know it didn't.

[tallguy]

Jun 20, 2022 15:24:28 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Opinion: A lot of young women worry about the end of Roe. I would celebrate it

After Roe, I believe it will be possible for our nation to be one that doesn't cast judgment on women who become pregnant, but one that embraces them with love and compassion. 

Oh, the things young people can believe.

And I would celebrate the end of Rose-colored glasses.  What a sweet, naive, senseless thought from a sweet(?), naive, senseless child.  When life finally slaps her upside the head it's gonna hurt! 

[Opti]

Jun 20, 2022 15:24:28 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Opinion: A lot of young women worry about the end of Roe. I would celebrate it

After Roe, I believe it will be possible for our nation to be one that doesn't cast judgment on women who become pregnant, but one that embraces them with love and compassion. 

Oh, the things young people can believe.

She's a senior at a Catholic university. She might not have any exposure to people in bad circumstances.


As a college senior, I'm looking forward to having a full and rich professional life when I graduate before going on to have a family of my own one day. I want to live in a society where a woman can have her child and pursue her career. That is empowering.

That's great if it works out that way, but that doesn't happen for everyone. Birth control fails, there is rape and severe birth defects, pregnancy complications etc. Reads like a starry-eyed vision of a pro forced birth utopia instead of anyone exposed to those in lesser and extreme circumstances. Not sure how forcing births to happen puts the father on the hook. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 20, 2022 15:50:26 GMT -5 Opti said:

Jun 20, 2022 15:24:28 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Opinion: A lot of young women worry about the end of Roe. I would celebrate it

After Roe, I believe it will be possible for our nation to be one that doesn't cast judgment on women who become pregnant, but one that embraces them with love and compassion. 

Oh, the things young people can believe.

She's a senior at a Catholic university. She might not have any exposure to people in bad circumstances.


As a college senior, I'm looking forward to having a full and rich professional life when I graduate before going on to have a family of my own one day. I want to live in a society where a woman can have her child and pursue her career. That is empowering.

That's great if it works out that way, but that doesn't happen for everyone. Birth control fails, there is rape and severe birth defects, pregnancy complications etc. Reads like a starry-eyed vision of a pro forced birth utopia instead of anyone exposed to those in lesser and extreme circumstances. Not sure how forcing births to happen puts the father on the hook. 

Shotgun wedding?   Since women can't just go get an abortion they will wait until the sanctity of marriage to put out to their kind loving husband chosen by God who will never ever ever turn out to be a dirt bag or want a divorce?

And since we're on the subject is anyone else sick of the "I am so glad my mother had me and I am alive" crap?  Every time I drive by our local pregnancy center and see the "Smile your mom chose life" banner I want to rip it down.  I think about kids who were murdered by their parents or are being abused. What exactly is an abused child supposed to be grateful for now? 

I think of my friends in HS who ended up homeless because they were LBGTQA+.  They are supposed to be grateful because hey at least mom didn't have an abortion!

It's such privileged elitist crap to stand there and think you can make that claim for everyone who was ever born.

[billisonboard]

Jun 20, 2022 15:43:36 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jun 20, 2022 15:24:28 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Opinion: A lot of young women worry about the end of Roe. I would celebrate it

After Roe, I believe it will be possible for our nation to be one that doesn't cast judgment on women who become pregnant, but one that embraces them with love and compassion. 

Oh, the things young people can believe.

I read it too and my eyes almost rolled out of my head.

Someone needs to get out of her straight white middle class privileged bubble and go talk to the women who will be impacted the most by repealing R v W.   Women who don't have the luxuries that she has when choosing what to do if she gets pregnant.  To stand there and claim that if they just talked to a pregnancy center everything will be fine is cruel optimism. 

I certainly agree with her about needing better comprehensive sex education and care.  I do not agree with her that this magical utopia is going to happen because they repealed R v W.  If that was true then it should have existed before Roe came into affect and we all know it didn't.

She would just feel the need to educate them:

It seems to me that we've created a culture where women are not equipped with the information and resources they need to make the best decisions for themselves before and during pregnancy -- decisions that would allow them to keep their unborn children. Because they haven't had access to comprehensive and supportive care that women need during pregnancy, many have felt, mistakenly, that abortion was their only option.

She would need to have it be very personal for her to gain any understanding.

[pulmonarymd]

Jun 20, 2022 15:57:26 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jun 20, 2022 15:50:26 GMT -5 Opti said:

She's a senior at a Catholic university. She might not have any exposure to people in bad circumstances.


As a college senior, I'm looking forward to having a full and rich professional life when I graduate before going on to have a family of my own one day. I want to live in a society where a woman can have her child and pursue her career. That is empowering.

That's great if it works out that way, but that doesn't happen for everyone. Birth control fails, there is rape and severe birth defects, pregnancy complications etc. Reads like a starry-eyed vision of a pro forced birth utopia instead of anyone exposed to those in lesser and extreme circumstances. Not sure how forcing births to happen puts the father on the hook. 

Shotgun wedding?   Since women can't just go get an abortion they will wait until the sanctity of marriage to put out to their kind loving husband chosen by God who will never ever ever turn out to be a dirt bag or want a divorce?

And since we're on the subject is anyone else sick of the "I am so glad my mother had me and I am alive" crap?  Every time I drive by our local pregnancy center and see the "Smile your mom chose life" banner I want to rip it down.  I think about kids who were murdered by their parents or are being abused.  Yeah I am sure that kid whose mom strangled him with fishing wire to get back at his dad was just ever so grateful she chose life in his final moments!

Just because "mom" can choose life doesn't mean mom has any business being a parent.  Being able to have children doesn't make you a parent.  Sometimes it really is doing the world a favor if they chose not to become one.

It's real easy to say that when you are like the letter writer.  

There sure were a lot of 2 month premature 8 lb first born babies in the past. I guess I am just cynical

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 20, 2022 16:06:30 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Jun 20, 2022 15:57:26 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Shotgun wedding?   Since women can't just go get an abortion they will wait until the sanctity of marriage to put out to their kind loving husband chosen by God who will never ever ever turn out to be a dirt bag or want a divorce?

And since we're on the subject is anyone else sick of the "I am so glad my mother had me and I am alive" crap?  Every time I drive by our local pregnancy center and see the "Smile your mom chose life" banner I want to rip it down.  I think about kids who were murdered by their parents or are being abused.  Yeah I am sure that kid whose mom strangled him with fishing wire to get back at his dad was just ever so grateful she chose life in his final moments!

Just because "mom" can choose life doesn't mean mom has any business being a parent.  Being able to have children doesn't make you a parent.  Sometimes it really is doing the world a favor if they chose not to become one.

It's real easy to say that when you are like the letter writer.  

There sure were a lot of 2 month premature 8 lb first born babies in the past. I guess I am just cynical

And fathers never abandoned their families, leaving the women to fix what they left behind.  

There aren't a ton of boomer and older women finding out after years of being a SAHM their husbands lied the entire time there are no retirement savings or everything went to his side piece upon his death.

Nope it was a family values utopia before 1973 I tell ya.  

I bet there were no abused women either before then.  The statistics that say an abused woman's chances of dying increase significantly if she gets pregnant are just a liberal conspiracy.  No man becomes enraged their wife/girlfriend got pregnant and commits murder.   

Personally I would rather not go back to the "men were men" good old days.  I get enough of boys being boys as it is in 2022.

[pulmonarymd]

Jun 20, 2022 16:10:47 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jun 20, 2022 16:06:30 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

There sure were a lot of 2 month premature 8 lb first born babies in the past. I guess I am just cynical

And fathers never abandoned their families, leaving the women to fix what they left behind.  

There aren't a ton of boomer and older women finding out after years of being a SAHM their husbands lied the entire time there are no retirement savings or everything went to his side piece upon his death.

Nope it was a family values utopia before 1973 I tell ya.  

I bet there were no abused women either before then.  The statistics that say an abused woman's chances of dying increase significantly if she gets pregnant are just a liberal conspiracy.  No man becomes enraged their wife/girlfriend got pregnant and commits murder.   

Personally I would rather not go back to the "men were men" good old days.  I get enough of boys being boys as it is in 2022.

The fantasies that these things never happened is revisionist histories. If people did not misbehave, why were STDs rampant in the old days. Why are we finding out about all these issues about someone not being the persons father on all this DNA testing. People haven't changed, these things always happened. Now it is just more open. Better to be out, we then can see who we really are.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 20, 2022 16:18:12 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Jun 20, 2022 16:10:47 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

And fathers never abandoned their families, leaving the women to fix what they left behind.  

There aren't a ton of boomer and older women finding out after years of being a SAHM their husbands lied the entire time there are no retirement savings or everything went to his side piece upon his death.

Nope it was a family values utopia before 1973 I tell ya.  

I bet there were no abused women either before then.  The statistics that say an abused woman's chances of dying increase significantly if she gets pregnant are just a liberal conspiracy.  No man becomes enraged their wife/girlfriend got pregnant and commits murder.   

Personally I would rather not go back to the "men were men" good old days.  I get enough of boys being boys as it is in 2022.

The fantasies that these things never happened is revisionist histories. If people did not misbehave, why were STDs rampant in the old days. Why are we finding out about all these issues about someone not being the persons father on all this DNA testing. People haven't changed, these things always happened. Now it is just more open. Better to be out, we then can see who we really are.

OT but you would think anymore if you're going to order one of those kits you better be prepared for some family skeletons to come tumbling out.  

[billisonboard]

Jun 20, 2022 16:18:12 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Jun 20, 2022 16:10:47 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

And fathers never abandoned their families, leaving the women to fix what they left behind.  

There aren't a ton of boomer and older women finding out after years of being a SAHM their husbands lied the entire time there are no retirement savings or everything went to his side piece upon his death.

Nope it was a family values utopia before 1973 I tell ya.  

I bet there were no abused women either before then.  The statistics that say an abused woman's chances of dying increase significantly if she gets pregnant are just a liberal conspiracy.  No man becomes enraged their wife/girlfriend got pregnant and commits murder.   

Personally I would rather not go back to the "men were men" good old days.  I get enough of boys being boys as it is in 2022.

The fantasies that these things never happened is revisionist histories. If people did not misbehave, why were STDs rampant in the old days. Why are we finding out about all these issues about someone not being the persons father on all this DNA testing. People haven't changed, these things always happened. Now it is just more open. Better to be out, we then can see who we really are.

plus the idea that women didn't have abortions prior to Roe (and not just in states where they were legal).

[tallguy]

This part struck me as well:

My mother faced intense pressure from doctors and family members telling her she should get an abortion. She visited doctor after the doctor who didn't want to take her case out of fear of complications and instead gave her medical advice that abortion was her best option.

I shudder to think what would have happened if my mother had allowed herself to be pressured into ending her pregnancy. Instead, she found a doctor willing to take her on as a patient -- one who honored her wish to keep her baby and helped her overcome the medical challenges she faced.

Poor naive, senseless child doesn't realize either that this is EXACTLY what pro-choice stands for:  That the ONLY person qualified and entitled to make the choice is the mother.  (Preferably in consultation with her doctor and her partner, of course, but the final choice is hers alone.) 

[pulmonarymd]

Jun 20, 2022 16:25:59 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jun 20, 2022 16:18:12 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

The fantasies that these things never happened is revisionist histories. If people did not misbehave, why were STDs rampant in the old days. Why are we finding out about all these issues about someone not being the persons father on all this DNA testing. People haven't changed, these things always happened. Now it is just more open. Better to be out, we then can see who we really are.

OT but you would think anymore if you're going to order one of those kits you better be prepared for some family skeletons to come tumbling out.  

I agree. People do not think things out. The number of problems it causes sure does not seem to be worth doing it

[happyhoix]

I left be in a far right area and the consensus seems to be we have abortions because silly high school girls did get enough religious training which caused them to allow boys to impregnate them and we just need to force those silly girls to either get married or give the babies up for adoption and everything will be fine.

If you bring up medical problems for the mom, or rape or incest, or deformed babies that won’t survive outside the womb, the response is prayer will fix everything - there is never a reason to have an abortion.

Not worth discussing with them. The people making the rules are primarily men, they won’t be impacted by it. To them, it’s just something we need to force silly women to do, because they can’t make good decisions on their own.

I need to move.

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2022 16:03:53 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 20, 2022 15:43:36 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I read it too and my eyes almost rolled out of my head.

Someone needs to get out of her straight white middle class privileged bubble and go talk to the women who will be impacted the most by repealing R v W.   Women who don't have the luxuries that she has when choosing what to do if she gets pregnant.  To stand there and claim that if they just talked to a pregnancy center everything will be fine is cruel optimism. 

I certainly agree with her about needing better comprehensive sex education and care.  I do not agree with her that this magical utopia is going to happen because they repealed R v W.  If that was true then it should have existed before Roe came into affect and we all know it didn't.

She would just feel the need to educate them:

It seems to me that we've created a culture where women are not equipped with the information and resources they need to make the best decisions for themselves before and during pregnancy -- decisions that would allow them to keep their unborn children. Because they haven't had access to comprehensive and supportive care that women need during pregnancy, many have felt, mistakenly, that abortion was their only option.

She would need to have it be very personal for her to gain any understanding.

That is one thing that really bugs me about people. They think that just because they’ve never experienced a certain bad thing or have never had a particular bad thing affect them personally, or somebody close to them, those bad things either don’t exist or aren’t that bad.

I don’t have to be homeless myself to feel like we should help homeless people that want help. I don’t have to be a victim of rape to understand why a girl or woman would not want a baby that came to be due to rape. I don’t have to experience a lot of things to have compassion and empathy for a decent person that is just trying to make the best choices and decisions they can, in a fucked up situation. They know themselves, their life and their circumstances far better than I do, so who am I to tell a pregnant girl or woman that regardless of the situation or circumstances, she MUST keep and raise a baby that she can’t provide for/doesn’t want/cannot be a good parent to, for whatever reasons?

I feel like the only way I can insert myself in her business like that is if I am committing to helping her raise and take care of the baby, like literally involved and helping on a day to day basis for the next 18+ years. And I’m not willing to do all that besides paying taxes that support government resources to help the less fortunate around me, so I mind my own damn business. 

[tallguy]

Jun 21, 2022 17:33:21 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Jun 20, 2022 16:03:53 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

She would just feel the need to educate them:

It seems to me that we've created a culture where women are not equipped with the information and resources they need to make the best decisions for themselves before and during pregnancy -- decisions that would allow them to keep their unborn children. Because they haven't had access to comprehensive and supportive care that women need during pregnancy, many have felt, mistakenly, that abortion was their only option.

She would need to have it be very personal for her to gain any understanding.

That is one thing that really bugs me about people. They think that just because they’ve never experienced a certain bad thing or have never had a particular bad thing affect them personally, or somebody close to them, those bad things either don’t exist or aren’t that bad.

I don’t have to be homeless myself to feel like we should help homeless people that want help. I don’t have to be a victim of rape to understand why a girl or woman would not want a baby that came to be due to rape. I don’t have to experience a lot of things to have compassion and empathy for a decent person that is just trying to make the best choices and decisions they can, in a fucked up situation. They know themselves, their life and their circumstances far better than I do, so who am I to tell a pregnant girl or woman that regardless of the situation or circumstances, she MUST keep and raise a baby that she can’t provide for/doesn’t want/cannot be a good parent to, for whatever reasons?

I feel like the only way I can insert myself in her business like that is if I am committing to helping her raise and take care of the baby, like literally involved and helping on a day to day basis for the next 18+ years. And I’m not willing to do all that besides paying taxes that support government resources to help the less fortunate around me, so I mind my own damn business. 

You do realize that you will NEVER be a good conservative with an attitude like that, right?

[Deleted]

Jun 21, 2022 17:47:50 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Jun 21, 2022 17:33:21 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

That is one thing that really bugs me about people. They think that just because they’ve never experienced a certain bad thing or have never had a particular bad thing affect them personally, or somebody close to them, those bad things either don’t exist or aren’t that bad.

I don’t have to be homeless myself to feel like we should help homeless people that want help. I don’t have to be a victim of rape to understand why a girl or woman would not want a baby that came to be due to rape. I don’t have to experience a lot of things to have compassion and empathy for a decent person that is just trying to make the best choices and decisions they can, in a fucked up situation. They know themselves, their life and their circumstances far better than I do, so who am I to tell a pregnant girl or woman that regardless of the situation or circumstances, she MUST keep and raise a baby that she can’t provide for/doesn’t want/cannot be a good parent to, for whatever reasons?

I feel like the only way I can insert myself in her business like that is if I am committing to helping her raise and take care of the baby, like literally involved and helping on a day to day basis for the next 18+ years. And I’m not willing to do all that besides paying taxes that support government resources to help the less fortunate around me, so I mind my own damn business. 

You do realize that you will NEVER be a good conservative with an attitude like that, right?

Yeah, I don’t care about being a good conservative or a good liberal, or being a Republican or Democrat. 

I care about being a good person and trying to do right by other people. 

[djAdvocate]

Jun 21, 2022 18:18:13 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Jun 21, 2022 17:47:50 GMT -5 tallguy said:

You do realize that you will NEVER be a good conservative with an attitude like that, right?

Yeah, I don’t care about being a good conservative or a good liberal, or being a Republican or Democrat. 

I care about being a good person and trying to right by other people. 

i would be thankful if i could convince myself that half of America says that to themselves every day.

[Deleted]

Jun 21, 2022 19:00:36 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jun 21, 2022 18:18:13 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Yeah, I don’t care about being a good conservative or a good liberal, or being a Republican or Democrat. 

I care about being a good person and trying to right by other people. 

i would be thankful if i could convince myself that half of America says that to themselves every day.

[Tennesseer]

A US tourist in Malta has been refused a life-saving abortion, and is struggling to get permission to fly

*A Seattle couple was on their "babymoon" in Malta when the woman began miscarrying.

*The fetus has a "zero percent" chance of survival, but doctors won't terminate the pregnancy due to the country's strict abortion ban.

*The woman is facing life-threatening complications while waiting to be transferred to the UK.

Seattle couple Andrea Prudente and Jay Weeldreyer were celebrating the upcoming birth of their first child in the Mediterranean when Prudente began bleeding heavily. She was 16 weeks pregnant.

Doctors on the island of Gozo, near Malta, gave her medication to help prevent a miscarriage. But on June 12, a few days later in Malta, the couple's main destination, Prudente's water broke. At the hospital, she learned her placenta had become partially detached and, two days later, that she'd lost all amniotic fluid, the Guardian reported.

Doctors told her the pregnancy had "zero chance" of survival — but that they coudn't remove it due to Malta's strict ban on abortion.

Meanwhile, Prudente was diagnosed with a ruptured membrane and a protruding umbilical cord, greatly raising her risk of severe bleeding and infection. She also tested positive for COVID-19.

She and Weeldreyer are trying to get an immediate medical evacuation to the UK, where they believe a termination could save her life. But they've already been waiting nearly a week to get the appropriate paperwork to their insurance company, according to VICE World News.

Until they can travel, Prudente must continue to wait for the fetus's heart to stop beating or develop an infection so severe her life is in immediate danger. Only then, will Maltese clinicians intervene, reports, including from the BBC, say.

"I just want to get out of here alive," Prudente told the Guardian. "I couldn't in my wildest dreams have thought up a nightmare like this."

"It's an inconceivable form of emotional and psychological torture," Weeldreyer added. "Part of me still celebrates hearing the heartbeat … and at the same time, I don't want that heartbeat there because this is just leading to more suffering for this woman that I love."

Complete article here: A US tourist in Malta has been refused a life-saving abortion, and is struggling to get permission to fly

[djAdvocate]

yeah, Malta is SUPER Cathloic.  it is one of the main strikes against it.  it goes back to the foundation of the country.  and Gozo is not an "island near Malta" it is part of Malta.  it is really not even necessary to say it any more than it is necessary to say that Hawaii is an "island near America".  

[happyhoix]

So Roe is dead, after 50 years.

Do I understand this right, that scotus says we aren’t guaranteed the right to an abortion- so states that decide to keep it legal will be able to do that, while states that decide it isn’t will abolish it?

And women can go between states to get one, although they may have to cover up the fact that they did it?

I think this is going to be like Prohibition- a lot of enthusiasm initially and then people start finding the unintended consequences. Women who are too you to remember what it was like to be pregnant prior to Roe will find out. A backlash will build, and the same states making it illegal now will face a deluge of single issue voters filling the state houses to change this one law.

[pulmonarymd]

I hope you are right, but remember, about 50% of women identify as Pro-Life. So it may not work out as you hope

[Opti]

Jun 24, 2022 16:07:41 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

I hope you are right, but remember, about 50% of women identify as Pro-Life. So it may not work out as you hope

Overall it is less than that. Some religious demographics are in that territory though.


www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/

[andi9899]

May 4, 2022 10:18:11 GMT -5 busymom said:

One of my coworkers raised a child conceived of rape.  Her Catholic upbringing did not allow her to have an abortion.  I felt sorry for both of them.  That child was not loved, only tolerated.  I cannot imagine growing up in a household where your birthday was "skipped", instead of celebrated.  Needless to say, now that the child is grown, mother & daughter don't have much of a relationship.  

That is so sad? Why did she not give the child up for adoption?

[busymom]

Jun 24, 2022 20:18:21 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

May 4, 2022 10:18:11 GMT -5 busymom said:

One of my coworkers raised a child conceived of rape.  Her Catholic upbringing did not allow her to have an abortion.  I felt sorry for both of them.  That child was not loved, only tolerated.  I cannot imagine growing up in a household where your birthday was "skipped", instead of celebrated.  Needless to say, now that the child is grown, mother & daughter don't have much of a relationship.  

That is so sad? Why did she not give the child up for adoption?

     I'm not sure.  She was raised up in a strict Catholic family.  My impression was, she felt it was her "lot in life".  I really felt badly for both of them.