what exactly is "woke"

[raeoflyte]

May 3, 2022 8:59:48 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

May 3, 2022 7:48:48 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

I live in north jersey and many people are either stopping or nervous about going into Manhattan. Giving up long established shopping, cultural and just enjoyment of ‘the city’ because of the growing crimes . Even in touristy areas like Times Square etc
The Manhattan prosecutor Alvin Bragg published a letter when he first came into office this January. Stated crimes that didn’t cause injury or death wouldn’t be prosecuted. Similar in San Francisco
Apparently these stances are because prosecutors (and others?) see prosecution of non injury crimes as impacting minorities unfairly.
Would this be considered ‘woke’ ??

Realizing that our prison/law enforcement impacts minorities unfairly might be considered woke. I'd say it's obvious, atrocious and needs a complete overhaul. It might be/will be painful, but the national data tell a very significant story that our justice system isn't just failing minorities its targeting them.

But the way you stated your post - non-violent crimes up, can't even go there anymore to experience culture, such a travesty! That loss/situation/current short term issue must be more important than trying to stop over a century of abuse of minorities by law enforcement is exactly how the term has been weaponized against poc.

I'm sure you didn't mean it like that - but youre talking about how sad it is to miss out on a perk when any interaction with law enforcement can be life ending for poc. Maybe the city has the wrong approach right now - but look at the reason and advocate for other approaches. We can't keep the status quo.

I'm not in the area but a quick Google search reads to me that violent crime is up significantly as well so my guess is that the cause of increased crime is more related to the pandemic especially in a highly populated, extremely expensive area. Hate crimes appear to be a significant portion of the increased crime rate in that specific area.

I know it's more nuanced than what I can decipher from Google in 10 minutes, but quoting increased crime rates as a cause of being "woke" just doesn't stand up.

[jerseygirl]

May 3, 2022 8:59:48 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

May 3, 2022 7:48:48 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

I live in north jersey and many people are either stopping or nervous about going into Manhattan. Giving up long established shopping, cultural and just enjoyment of ‘the city’ because of the growing crimes . Even in touristy areas like Times Square etc
The Manhattan prosecutor Alvin Bragg published a letter when he first came into office this January. Stated crimes that didn’t cause injury or death wouldn’t be prosecuted. Similar in San Francisco
Apparently these stances are because prosecutors (and others?) see prosecution of non injury crimes as impacting minorities unfairly.
Would this be considered ‘woke’ ??

Realizing that our prison/law enforcement impacts minorities unfairly might be considered woke. I'd say it's obvious, atrocious and needs a complete overhaul. It might be/will be painful, but the national data tell a very significant story that our justice system isn't just failing minorities its targeting them.

But the way you stated your post - non-violent crimes up, can't even go there anymore to experience culture, such a travesty! That loss/situation/current short term issue must be more important than trying to stop over a century of abuse of minorities by law enforcement is exactly how the term has been weaponized against poc.

I'm sure you didn't mean it like that - but youre talking about how sad it is to miss out on a perk when any interaction with law enforcement can be life ending for poc. Maybe the city has the wrong approach right now - but look at the reason and advocate for other approaches. We can't keep the status quo.

I just wrote about how it affects me - agree not that bad but it’s affecting the economy of NYC
Much much worse are the effects on minority communities. Low lifes seem to be responding by not worrying about being caught by police. Police arrest someone with maybe 40 arrests including possession of an illegal gun being let free. Asian men and women being beaten and pushed down, black babies and children shot cause they were in the middle of a gang shooting. Innocent people waiting for subway being pushed into the train or tracks. Elderly and women just walking along being punched and knocked down…..

[raeoflyte]

May 3, 2022 9:41:15 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

May 3, 2022 8:59:48 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Realizing that our prison/law enforcement impacts minorities unfairly might be considered woke. I'd say it's obvious, atrocious and needs a complete overhaul. It might be/will be painful, but the national data tell a very significant story that our justice system isn't just failing minorities its targeting them.

But the way you stated your post - non-violent crimes up, can't even go there anymore to experience culture, such a travesty! That loss/situation/current short term issue must be more important than trying to stop over a century of abuse of minorities by law enforcement is exactly how the term has been weaponized against poc.

I'm sure you didn't mean it like that - but youre talking about how sad it is to miss out on a perk when any interaction with law enforcement can be life ending for poc. Maybe the city has the wrong approach right now - but look at the reason and advocate for other approaches. We can't keep the status quo.

I just wrote about how it affects me - agree not that bad but it’s affecting the economy of NYC
Much much worse are the effects on minority communities. Low lifes seem to be responding by not worrying about being caught by police. Police arrest someone with maybe 40 arrests including possession of an illegal gun being let free. Asian men and women being beaten and pushed down, black babies and children shot cause they were in the middle of a gang shooting. Innocent people waiting for subway being pushed into the train or tracks. Elderly and women just walking along being punched and knocked down…..

I'm not arguing that those are problems that need to be addressed. But I don't think a shift from less physical/deadly force on non-violent crimes from police is the cause of increased crime. I would guess it's more a layering effect of everything from the last 2 years coinciding with what will hopefully be a civil rights awakening.

[swamp]

May 3, 2022 7:48:48 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

I live in north jersey and many people are either stopping or nervous about going into Manhattan. Giving up long established shopping, cultural and just enjoyment of ‘the city’ because of the growing crimes . Even in touristy areas like Times Square etc
The Manhattan prosecutor Alvin Bragg published a letter when he first came into office this January. Stated crimes that didn’t cause injury or death wouldn’t be prosecuted. Similar in San Francisco
Apparently these stances are because prosecutors (and others?) see prosecution of non injury crimes as impacting minorities unfairly.
Would this be considered ‘woke’ ??

he's since walked back on that memo. 

crime is also not out of control.   It's about at the same level is was pre pandemic.    Since crime dropped so much during the pandemic a return to normal looks like a riot. 

[pulmonarymd]

May 3, 2022 10:46:13 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 3, 2022 7:48:48 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

I live in north jersey and many people are either stopping or nervous about going into Manhattan. Giving up long established shopping, cultural and just enjoyment of ‘the city’ because of the growing crimes . Even in touristy areas like Times Square etc
The Manhattan prosecutor Alvin Bragg published a letter when he first came into office this January. Stated crimes that didn’t cause injury or death wouldn’t be prosecuted. Similar in San Francisco
Apparently these stances are because prosecutors (and others?) see prosecution of non injury crimes as impacting minorities unfairly.
Would this be considered ‘woke’ ??

he's since walked back on that memo. 

crime is also not out of control.   It's about at the same level is was pre pandemic.    Since crime dropped so much during the pandemic a return to normal looks like a riot. 

You are trying to argue emotions with facts? I get to believe what I want to, facts be damned!

[jerseygirl]

Articles with facts:
Murders in 2021 448, 2019 319
(Rapes and robberies about same, didn’t find shootings)
www.reuters.com/world/us/despite-recent-uptick-new-york-city-crime-down-past-decades-2022-04-12/

2022 first quarter :crime soars compared to previous year , didn’t find comparison to 2019
www.amny.com/police-fire/new-york-city-crime-rates-january-2022/amp/

Article with 2022 vs 2019

nypost.com/2022/02/03/most-major-crime-in-nyc-returns-to-pre-covid-levels-nypd-data/

Recidivism up along with crime (fox news which you may dismiss but with quotes from police official)

www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-crime-rate-2022-repeat-offenders.amp

I’m hearing (on Israeli and Japanese news) about arrests of people with 30-40 previous arrests including possession of illegal guns being freed . Not just single time but multiple- yes anecdotal but perception causes people to worry .

[pulmonarymd]

But perception isn't the correct way to decide on policy.

I am not arguing whether the policy is correct. But murder rates are up all over the US. Seems a bit disingenuous to blame the increase in NYC on this if it is happening places where this is not the case. In addition, even with the number of murders in NYC, it is still one of the safest cities in the US. Back in the 80s there were thousands of murders. This is similar to FOX News blaring all kinds of scaremongering news without context. Visited my son in Louisville. The murder rate is significantly higher there, yet they had a huge crowd for an event when I was there. No one seemed worried about the murder rate.

[jerseygirl]

Who said perception is guiding policy? And yes not just in NYC (but that’s near to me )

[swamp]

May 3, 2022 12:56:31 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Articles with facts:
Murders in 2021 448, 2019 319
(Rapes and robberies about same, didn’t find shootings)
www.reuters.com/world/us/despite-recent-uptick-new-york-city-crime-down-past-decades-2022-04-12/

2022 first quarter :crime soars compared to previous year , didn’t find comparison to 2019
www.amny.com/police-fire/new-york-city-crime-rates-january-2022/amp/

Article with 2022 vs 2019

nypost.com/2022/02/03/most-major-crime-in-nyc-returns-to-pre-covid-levels-nypd-data/

Recidivism up along with crime (fox news which you may dismiss but with quotes from police official)

www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-crime-rate-2022-repeat-offenders.amp

I’m hearing (on Israeli and Japanese news) about arrests of people with 30-40 previous arrests including possession of illegal guns being freed . Not just single time but multiple- yes anecdotal but perception causes people to worry .

Because the sole purpose of bail/pre trial release determination in NY is to determine if the person is likely to come back to court.    If they have 40 arrests and have always come to court, there is no danger of the person fleeing.    The court cannot consider dangerousness.   Do they unofficially?  Probably.    

[pulmonarymd]

May 3, 2022 13:42:30 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Who said perception is guiding policy? And yes not just in NYC (but that’s near to me )

The murder rate in the small city near me is 4 times that of NYC. The idea that NYC is this lawless hellhole is not correct. It was a much more dangerous place in the 80s. Perception may not be driving policy, but it will drive people to vote their unfounded fears.

[jerseygirl]

May 3, 2022 13:45:37 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 3, 2022 12:56:31 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Articles with facts:
Murders in 2021 448, 2019 319
(Rapes and robberies about same, didn’t find shootings)
www.reuters.com/world/us/despite-recent-uptick-new-york-city-crime-down-past-decades-2022-04-12/

2022 first quarter :crime soars compared to previous year , didn’t find comparison to 2019
www.amny.com/police-fire/new-york-city-crime-rates-january-2022/amp/

Article with 2022 vs 2019

nypost.com/2022/02/03/most-major-crime-in-nyc-returns-to-pre-covid-levels-nypd-data/

Recidivism up along with crime (fox news which you may dismiss but with quotes from police official)

www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-crime-rate-2022-repeat-offenders.amp

I’m hearing (on Israeli and Japanese news) about arrests of people with 30-40 previous arrests including possession of illegal guns being freed . Not just single time but multiple- yes anecdotal but perception causes people to worry .

Because the sole purpose of bail/pre trial release determination in NY is to determine if the person is likely to come back to court.    If they have 40 arrests and have always come to court, there is no danger of the person fleeing.    The court cannot consider dangerousness.   Do they unofficially?  Probably.    

Do you have any knowledge of these people with multiple, e.g. 40 odd offenders actually DO show up in court?

[swamp]

May 3, 2022 13:59:06 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

May 3, 2022 13:45:37 GMT -5 swamp said:

Because the sole purpose of bail/pre trial release determination in NY is to determine if the person is likely to come back to court.    If they have 40 arrests and have always come to court, there is no danger of the person fleeing.    The court cannot consider dangerousness.   Do they unofficially?  Probably.    

Do you have any knowledge of these people with multiple, e.g. 40 odd offenders actually DO show up in court?

Yes.  I do.  I work in the court system. 

[jerseygirl]

So you work in the court system - about what % of these many multiple arrested actually show up? Most/Half the time? Most/Half the people charged?
Would seem really surprising that people who have been caught commiting so many crimes ‘suddenly’ respect the law and show up for court appearance when they’re liable to be incarcerated

[tallguy]

My question on the de-emphasis on arrests and prosecutions for minor crimes is this:  How much of it is due to things like budget cuts and pandemic restrictions rather than merely considering minor crime unimportant?  If there are fewer police officers to make arrests and court trials are suspended (as they were in some places) how does one expect to fight crime to any real degree?  Of course minor crimes are going to be de-emphasized, and it has less to do with "wokeness" than some will claim. 

[TheOtherMe]

Across the country, Black people receive harsher sentences for crimes than white people.  Example:  voter fraud and possession of marijuana

[scgal]

May 4, 2022 7:52:21 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Across the country, Black people receive harsher sentences for crimes than white people.  Example:  voter fraud and possession of marijuana

Are they touu? How many harsher sentences are because of repeat offenders and not just the 1st time in front of a judge. 

[scgal]

May 3, 2022 18:19:53 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 3, 2022 13:59:06 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Do you have any knowledge of these people with multiple, e.g. 40 odd offenders actually DO show up in court?

Yes.  I do.  I work in the court system. 

That is the problem the court system is failing. 40 arrest, they just keep on screwing up. Harsher penalties need to be given.

[raeoflyte]

May 4, 2022 8:07:56 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 4, 2022 7:52:21 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Across the country, Black people receive harsher sentences for crimes than white people.  Example:  voter fraud and possession of marijuana

Are they touu? How many harsher sentences are because of repeat offenders and not just the 1st time in front of a judge. 

Yes, they are. Google it. Read some studies. This is well documented.

[swamp]

May 4, 2022 8:11:03 GMT -5 scgal said:

May 3, 2022 18:19:53 GMT -5 swamp said:

Yes.  I do.  I work in the court system. 

That is the problem the court system is failing. 40 arrest, they just keep on screwing up. Harsher penalties need to be given.

talk to the legislators.  The judges have to follow the laws as written. 

[swamp]

May 3, 2022 21:02:56 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

So you work in the court system - about what % of these many multiple arrested actually show up? Most/Half the time? Most/Half the people charged?
Would seem really surprising that people who have been caught commiting so many crimes ‘suddenly’ respect the law and show up for court appearance when they’re liable to be incarcerated

Most of them.   about 90% 

[Value Buy]

May 3, 2022 10:46:13 GMT -5 swamp said:

May 3, 2022 7:48:48 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

I live in north jersey and many people are either stopping or nervous about going into Manhattan. Giving up long established shopping, cultural and just enjoyment of ‘the city’ because of the growing crimes . Even in touristy areas like Times Square etc
The Manhattan prosecutor Alvin Bragg published a letter when he first came into office this January. Stated crimes that didn’t cause injury or death wouldn’t be prosecuted. Similar in San Francisco
Apparently these stances are because prosecutors (and others?) see prosecution of non injury crimes as impacting minorities unfairly.
Would this be considered ‘woke’ ??

he's since walked back on that memo. 

crime is also not out of control.   It's about at the same level is was pre pandemic.    Since crime dropped so much during the pandemic a return to normal looks like a riot. 

If a crime is not prosecuted where the the accused is not charged, did a crime occurr? 
If prosecutions are not bothered with  by prosecuting the perpetrators doesn't the crime rate look less?
If citizens realize if they call in and report a crime, but they think police will not bother filing a report, the victim does not file a report, is the crime on the books?
If a rather serious crime is now a misdemeaner, does this not make serious crime seem down?

[TheOtherMe]

If I get pulled over for a traffic stop, I am not worried that it could possible end up with a cop killing me.

If I take a walk or job in a different neighborhood than where I live, I am not worried a neighbor will shoot me.  

Talk to a Black person and ask them their perspective on just these two things.

This is true because of my white privilege.

[Tiny]

And to add to the TheOtherMe's theme.

Just this weekend I was out with a friend driving on city streets (so stop and go). I was driving. Friend had put down her window to get some air (aka dealing with a hot flash) I did the same the air felt good. We drove for a lot of blocks/stops with the windows down. We had come to yet another stop light. My friend's demeanor changed dramatically - enough that I noticed. She tensed up, fumbled to put up her window and made sure the door was locked. I tried to figure out what frightened her (as the driver - maybe I wasn't aware of some danger...). There was a man standing in the bus stop shelter a little a head of us on her side of the car. I saw the man in the bus stop shelter. He looked to be late 20's, was dressed well, had a backpack (the laptop kind), was holding his coffee cup, and looking at his phone. I looked around some more - and I got nothing out of the ordinary. I realized the man in the bus stop was black (My brain labeled the guy in the bus shelter "commuter"). It was the black guy waiting for a bus that had spooked my friend. I was appalled by my friends actions. We had stopped at plenty of other corners where there were people waiting to cross or in bus shelters (most of them white) and none of them had prompted her to tense up, lock the door and roll up the window.

I asked if she was OK because she untensed as soon as we moved thru the light/intersection. And she said something that implied the city neighborhood was "dangerous". And my mind exploded. I'm pretty darn sure she wouldn't have been afraid if the guy wearing the same clothes and doing the same stuff had been white.

I feel ashamed and sad.

[Tiny]

May 2, 2022 16:09:45 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Real talk, I’ve been more open and honest here on these boards, knowing that most of you are White, than I have ever been in my life in “mixed company”. The fact that some of you are willing to really listen to my truths, things that have happened to me, my family and friends, and people I know…… and try to understand my perspective on some things, really does mean a lot to me. 

Honestly, if not for the posters here, I am pretty sure I would’ve said fuck it and given up on White America after these last few years….. and I’d have a bad attitude with people that haven’t necessarily done anything to me. I think I’ve been pretty honest here and there on the boards, about how I’ve struggled the last several years to not become the same kind of person I despise and look down on. That’s just not who I want to be, but there’s only so much a person can take before reacting some kind of way. So I keep praying about it. 

I pray about it because regardless of the horrible or crazy things people do “in the name of Christianity”, I know that MY God does not approve of hatred. So one of my prayers has become asking Him to help me not harbor hatred in my heart for people I don’t even know. I want to spread love in this world, not hatred. No matter how cliched or naive that sounds, it’s the truth.

I just want to say thank you to you and some other posters here that have helped me continue to believe that all is not lost as far as me and mine trying to live safely in this country, and not just survive, but thrive. It’s still a little rough, but the work that you and others here are doing with yourselves and the children you are raising, and confronting racism and prejudices as you can as you live your lives, gives me a bit of hope for my grandchildren and their children. I worry about them more than I worry about me.

Anyway, just thank you.

No. Thank you!
I don't reply or participate much in the real conversations you and the others have on this board. But I read them (sometimes re-read) and I think about what was said. And I spend time looking "at myself" and then working on being a better person (change is HARD... let me tell you... even with conviction behind the change... old habits and routines and default ways of thinking are hard to re-route or change. Even when after doing an old habit, routine, way of thinking makes me go DAng! That's so wrong... I don't really believe that or agree with that - why do i still do that? Dang!. stupid Auto Pilot. )

For those of us surrounded by people who look like and talk like ourselves - it's difficult to find or understand or put ourselves in other people's shoes. We may have good intentions and think everything is ok... because perhaps our 'default' is to assume that other people's lives are like our own.

So, for example, the old "I don't worry about getting stopped by a traffic cop - because I FOLLOW the laws. If a black person gets pulled over it must be because they were doing something wrong." A friend actually said something like this and further implied that if Black people didn't antagonize the officers who pulled them over they wouldn't have to fear violence from the police. There were plenty of Black people following the rules and not getting pulled over and suffering police violence. Why did Black CRIMINALS need special treatment.

The person who voiced this is kind and compassionate and generally is polite and respectful of people in real life - they don't act differently when they encounter non-white people in typical daily interactions - at work, at a store, at church, etc... I have never heard them blame social ills on non-white people. They aren't upset that their tax dollars help non-white people. We've discussed social "ills" and how the government can help the less fortunate.

Because in my friend's world - people who follow the rules/laws don't have run ins with the police. Therefore why would the police go after non-white people who were following the rules/laws? Why would police need to be forceful or arrest someone for a routine traffic stop if the person stopped acted appropriately and didn't antagonize the police??  That's a rhetorical question. I'm pretty sure all of us here know why.

So, thank you Pink. I need to hear/read your side of things. Because otherwise - all I have is the TV news and the online social media. I have few if any first hand accounts from non-white people of the day to day stuff that goes on in non-white people's lives. 

And I, too,  am guilty of the kind of 'racism' that comes from "but it works like this for me... I ASSUME it works like that for non-white people - what is their problem?".  

And from having the horrible feeling of "OMG.  it doesn't work that way for them.  I've been wrong.  And I've done/said some stuff that was soooo very  inconsiderate and rude and wrong.  And I didn't mean it to be that way at all.  I didn't know.  "         I've been saying stuff on "auto pilot" or "because that was the 'script' "    I'm so embarassed and ashamed of my past behavior. 

[Deleted]

May 4, 2022 11:05:57 GMT -5 Tiny said:

May 2, 2022 16:09:45 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Real talk, I’ve been more open and honest here on these boards, knowing that most of you are White, than I have ever been in my life in “mixed company”. The fact that some of you are willing to really listen to my truths, things that have happened to me, my family and friends, and people I know…… and try to understand my perspective on some things, really does mean a lot to me. 

Honestly, if not for the posters here, I am pretty sure I would’ve said fuck it and given up on White America after these last few years….. and I’d have a bad attitude with people that haven’t necessarily done anything to me. I think I’ve been pretty honest here and there on the boards, about how I’ve struggled the last several years to not become the same kind of person I despise and look down on. That’s just not who I want to be, but there’s only so much a person can take before reacting some kind of way. So I keep praying about it. 

I pray about it because regardless of the horrible or crazy things people do “in the name of Christianity”, I know that MY God does not approve of hatred. So one of my prayers has become asking Him to help me not harbor hatred in my heart for people I don’t even know. I want to spread love in this world, not hatred. No matter how cliched or naive that sounds, it’s the truth.

I just want to say thank you to you and some other posters here that have helped me continue to believe that all is not lost as far as me and mine trying to live safely in this country, and not just survive, but thrive. It’s still a little rough, but the work that you and others here are doing with yourselves and the children you are raising, and confronting racism and prejudices as you can as you live your lives, gives me a bit of hope for my grandchildren and their children. I worry about them more than I worry about me.

Anyway, just thank you.

No. Thank you!
I don't reply or participate much in the real conversations you and the others have on this board. But I read them (sometimes re-read) and I think about what was said. And I spend time looking "at myself" and then working on being a better person (change is HARD... let me tell you... even with conviction behind the change... old habits and routines and default ways of thinking are hard to re-route or change. Even when after doing an old habit, routine, way of thinking makes me go DAng! That's so wrong... I don't really believe that or agree with that - why do i still do that? Dang!. stupid Auto Pilot. )

For those of us surrounded by people who look like and talk like ourselves - it's difficult to find or understand or put ourselves in other people's shoes. We may have good intentions and think everything is ok... because perhaps our 'default' is to assume that other people's lives are like our own.

So, for example, the old "I don't worry about getting stopped by a traffic cop - because I FOLLOW the laws. If a black person gets pulled over it must be because they were doing something wrong." A friend actually said something like this and further implied that if Black people didn't antagonize the officers who pulled them over they wouldn't have to fear violence from the police. There were plenty of Black people following the rules and not getting pulled over and suffering police violence. Why did Black CRIMINALS need special treatment.

The person who voiced this is kind and compassionate and generally is polite and respectful of people in real life - they don't act differently when they encounter non-white people in typical daily interactions - at work, at a store, at church, etc... I have never heard them blame social ills on non-white people. They aren't upset that their tax dollars help non-white people. We've discussed social "ills" and how the government can help the less fortunate.

Because in my friend's world - people who follow the rules/laws don't have run ins with the police. Therefore why would the police go after non-white people who were following the rules/laws? Why would police need to be forceful or arrest someone for a routine traffic stop if the person stopped acted appropriately and didn't antagonize the police??  That's a rhetorical question. I'm pretty sure all of us here know why.

So, thank you Pink. I need to hear/read your side of things. Because otherwise - all I have is the TV news and the online social media. I have few if any first hand accounts from non-white people of the day to day stuff that goes on in non-white people's lives. 

And I, too,  am guilty of the kind of 'racism' that comes from "but it works like this for me... I ASSUME it works like that for non-white people - what is their problem?".  

And from having the horrible feeling of "OMG.  it doesn't work that way for them.  I've been wrong.  And I've done/said some stuff that was soooo very  inconsiderate and rude and wrong.  And I didn't mean it to be that way at all.  I didn't know.  "         I've been saying stuff on "auto pilot" or "because that was the 'script' "    I'm so embarassed and ashamed of my past behavior. 

[pulmonarymd]

May 4, 2022 8:29:01 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

May 4, 2022 8:07:56 GMT -5 scgal said:

Are they touu? How many harsher sentences are because of repeat offenders and not just the 1st time in front of a judge. 

Yes, they are. Google it. Read some studies. This is well documented.

More proof that facts do not matter. They are guided by emotion, and nothing will change their minds

[TheOtherMe]

May 4, 2022 11:05:57 GMT -5 Tiny said:

May 2, 2022 16:09:45 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Real talk, I’ve been more open and honest here on these boards, knowing that most of you are White, than I have ever been in my life in “mixed company”. The fact that some of you are willing to really listen to my truths, things that have happened to me, my family and friends, and people I know…… and try to understand my perspective on some things, really does mean a lot to me. 

Honestly, if not for the posters here, I am pretty sure I would’ve said fuck it and given up on White America after these last few years….. and I’d have a bad attitude with people that haven’t necessarily done anything to me. I think I’ve been pretty honest here and there on the boards, about how I’ve struggled the last several years to not become the same kind of person I despise and look down on. That’s just not who I want to be, but there’s only so much a person can take before reacting some kind of way. So I keep praying about it. 

I pray about it because regardless of the horrible or crazy things people do “in the name of Christianity”, I know that MY God does not approve of hatred. So one of my prayers has become asking Him to help me not harbor hatred in my heart for people I don’t even know. I want to spread love in this world, not hatred. No matter how cliched or naive that sounds, it’s the truth.

I just want to say thank you to you and some other posters here that have helped me continue to believe that all is not lost as far as me and mine trying to live safely in this country, and not just survive, but thrive. It’s still a little rough, but the work that you and others here are doing with yourselves and the children you are raising, and confronting racism and prejudices as you can as you live your lives, gives me a bit of hope for my grandchildren and their children. I worry about them more than I worry about me.

Anyway, just thank you.

No. Thank you!
I don't reply or participate much in the real conversations you and the others have on this board. But I read them (sometimes re-read) and I think about what was said. And I spend time looking "at myself" and then working on being a better person (change is HARD... let me tell you... even with conviction behind the change... old habits and routines and default ways of thinking are hard to re-route or change. Even when after doing an old habit, routine, way of thinking makes me go DAng! That's so wrong... I don't really believe that or agree with that - why do i still do that? Dang!. stupid Auto Pilot. )

For those of us surrounded by people who look like and talk like ourselves - it's difficult to find or understand or put ourselves in other people's shoes. We may have good intentions and think everything is ok... because perhaps our 'default' is to assume that other people's lives are like our own.

So, for example, the old "I don't worry about getting stopped by a traffic cop - because I FOLLOW the laws. If a black person gets pulled over it must be because they were doing something wrong." A friend actually said something like this and further implied that if Black people didn't antagonize the officers who pulled them over they wouldn't have to fear violence from the police. There were plenty of Black people following the rules and not getting pulled over and suffering police violence. Why did Black CRIMINALS need special treatment.

The person who voiced this is kind and compassionate and generally is polite and respectful of people in real life - they don't act differently when they encounter non-white people in typical daily interactions - at work, at a store, at church, etc... I have never heard them blame social ills on non-white people. They aren't upset that their tax dollars help non-white people. We've discussed social "ills" and how the government can help the less fortunate.

Because in my friend's world - people who follow the rules/laws don't have run ins with the police. Therefore why would the police go after non-white people who were following the rules/laws? Why would police need to be forceful or arrest someone for a routine traffic stop if the person stopped acted appropriately and didn't antagonize the police??  That's a rhetorical question. I'm pretty sure all of us here know why.

So, thank you Pink. I need to hear/read your side of things. Because otherwise - all I have is the TV news and the online social media. I have few if any first hand accounts from non-white people of the day to day stuff that goes on in non-white people's lives. 

And I, too,  am guilty of the kind of 'racism' that comes from "but it works like this for me... I ASSUME it works like that for non-white people - what is their problem?".  

And from having the horrible feeling of "OMG.  it doesn't work that way for them.  I've been wrong.  And I've done/said some stuff that was soooo very  inconsiderate and rude and wrong.  And I didn't mean it to be that way at all.  I didn't know.  "         I've been saying stuff on "auto pilot" or "because that was the 'script' "    I'm so embarassed and ashamed of my past behavior. 

I couldn't say this any better myself.  

I know I have done and said things that I now consider to be racist and am ashamed of myself. I also know what I heard growing up at home.  I did recognize in high school (the first time I had Black classmates and Black friends) that my parents were racist.  So that was a wake up call for me.

I do recognize that I am willing to learn and too many people are not willing to learn and change.

[nidena]

May 4, 2022 10:43:08 GMT -5 Tiny said:

And to add to the TheOtherMe's theme.

Just this weekend I was out with a friend driving on city streets (so stop and go). I was driving. Friend had put down her window to get some air (aka dealing with a hot flash) I did the same the air felt good. We drove for a lot of blocks/stops with the windows down. We had come to yet another stop light. My friend's demeanor changed dramatically - enough that I noticed. She tensed up, fumbled to put up her window and made sure the door was locked. I tried to figure out what frightened her (as the driver - maybe I wasn't aware of some danger...). There was a man standing in the bus stop shelter a little a head of us on her side of the car. I saw the man in the bus stop shelter. He looked to be late 20's, was dressed well, had a backpack (the laptop kind), was holding his coffee cup, and looking at his phone. I looked around some more - and I got nothing out of the ordinary. I realized the man in the bus stop was black (My brain labeled the guy in the bus shelter "commuter"). It was the black guy waiting for a bus that had spooked my friend. I was appalled by my friends actions. We had stopped at plenty of other corners where there were people waiting to cross or in bus shelters (most of them white) and none of them had prompted her to tense up, lock the door and roll up the window.

I asked if she was OK because she untensed as soon as we moved thru the light/intersection. And she said something that implied the city neighborhood was "dangerous". And my mind exploded. I'm pretty darn sure she wouldn't have been afraid if the guy wearing the same clothes and doing the same stuff had been white.

I feel ashamed and sad.

Did you call out her bias?

[nidena]

If you haven't read The New Jim Crow, I highly recommend it.

The statistics, the facts, the referenced cases...they will piss you right the eff off if you have any desire in your heart to right the wrongs of this heavily supremacist-lawed country.

[countrygirl2]

I grew up in a lily white area. Like I once said my little girl had never seen a black person and on an elevator in the city when very small said. Look mommy that lady is black, I was so embarrassed, the lady was so sweet, she said yes honey I am. I told her I was sorry, I didn't know what to say. That was when I realized what an insulated world I lived in. I had gone to college with people from everywhere, never thought anything about it.

My parents were biased and racist, I'm not sure they even realized it, it was just the way it was. If I used some of the words I was exposed to growing up you guys would run me off. I have slipped a few times and got called for it.

But there are just a few that stand out. I had a black professor in college, he was super smart and I liked his classes. He appeared somewhat aloof, but in looking back, I think he was just protecting his emotions. Can you imagine him attaining that level in a small midwestern city in the 60's, what he had to go through I will never know. I was bragging on him to my dad and how much I was learning from him and my dad said, I'm spending money for you go to college to learn this?? I never said anything about any of my profs again. I couldn't believe dad said that, but he did.

My husband and I both tried too not be those people that looked down on others. Living in Houston and Dallas helped us and hubs working all over the world really opened his eyes even more. Coming back here was an eye opener. But it is very, very slowly changing. We have hispanics, asians, middle eastern folks here, not many but still we never had any mix back in the day. A lot of people here are doing better, but some of the white folks here just can't let it go. They fail to see that there are just as many white people with problems as anyother or in some cases more than other. Most have never been away from here and believe the sterortype stuff they hear on the news.

Thank goodness son is worldly and his wife. Grandson has no idea anyone is different, he has and is exposed to all kinds of languages and people. I love seeing it, never heard him talk about anyone looking different even handicapped. They are working hard to make him color blind and special needs blind. I definitely approve.

I'm far from perfect, I'm old, and exposed to so much that was not right, but I sure try.