NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 7, 2024 8:34:02 GMT -5
Pink Cashmere , just an idea. Some things you've said in the past about your mother running out of money and asking for help make me wonder if you could sweeten the deal with cash. I'd consider an upfront amount, like $500 (to make her move), plus $200 monthly (to make her stay there).
It's a different situation because the emotional level wasn't as high, but I had a rental property with tenants that lived there for about 5 years. We became friends. The tenants, married couple with a young child, split up about three years in. She wanted to stay in the house. I agreed to divide the rent according to her paydays, every two weeks. That sort of fell by the wayside due to car repairs, medical bills, etc., so she was constantly trying to play catchup. After 5 years I decided to raise the rent. It hadn't been raised in all that time. She decided to move, and the only way she could do it was if I waived rent for the last month so she could have a security deposit for a new place. It was far cheaper and less emotional than an eviction. Nope nope nope nope danger Will Robinson danger! This can be used by her mom to claim she is being bribed/forced into senior care. Which mean mom did not consent to moving in. It also leaves Pink open to having the senior housing decide Pink is responsible for the bill since Pink is clearly already supporting her mother. Then if mom needs Medicaid Pink giving her mom $200 a month is a HUGE fucking no no because that will count as an asset. Please please consult an elder care lawyer Pink. They may tell you nothing can be done but the field is so full of red tape and thorns you could get your ass into some real trouble trying to manipulate your mom.
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seriousthistime
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Post by seriousthistime on Oct 7, 2024 8:44:48 GMT -5
It's a gift, not a bribe. Cash does not leave a paper trail.
The lease on the senior housing will state who is responsible, and when.
But if you're concerned about the legal aspects, an elder care lawyer is a good idea.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 7, 2024 9:07:01 GMT -5
It's a gift, not a bribe. Cash does not leave a paper trail. The lease on the senior housing will state who is responsible, and when. But if you're concerned about the legal aspects, an elder care lawyer is a good idea. It is not worth it. It doesn't matter cash doesn't leave a paper trail all it needs is her mom saying something about getting $200 a month from Pink. While I am not sure what the laws are where Pink lives here in Iowa I'd be in for a world of hurt because that is assets that my grandma was not declaring. Every penny of hers had to be accounted for even before Medicaid. That included handouts from family/friends. Now I could and can BUY her things that cost $200 and nobody will say boo like clothes or if we wanted to update some things in her room. If Pink wanted to pay for her to get her nails/hair done or better clothes or update her room chair sure that can be used to sweeten the pot. But DO NOT offer any sort of money.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Oct 7, 2024 9:21:48 GMT -5
What if you fill out the applications, set up interviews, etc? Just take it on because your mom isn't capable of doing it herself? If she was capable she would have done it already. Ehhh you have to be careful doing that. A lot of places won't take forms that are filled out by another person unless they are a POA or guardian. The person who is applying must be doing so of their own free will. Many senior apartments and housing also require medical evaluations to determine the level of care that you need. One place my dad was looking at wanted an extensive physical exam and an additional 4 hour interview. My dad said hell fucking no he wasn't putting grandma through all that. If her mom refuses to go to a doctor for the pre-approval exam then the whole thing is dead in the water. Same with if these places decide her mom needs more care than they can provide and it is a total fucking crap shoot because since there are no federal standards to go by they can all set their own rules regarding who they will and won't take. I'm not saying that Pink couldn't help but she will likely only get as far as the church people did because you can't forcibly make someone apply or move. Pink filling it all out is fine but if mom won't sign the paperwork that's it. There is the additional risk that mom says Pink made her sign, look mom didn't even fill out the forms and the application gets tossed. If Mom says she don't wanna move and is being moved against her will they will not take her they can't legally. Pink doesn't have anything saying she can move mom herself in the name of mom's best interest and based on what Pink has said while it sucks and it is a bad living situation for her mom it unfortunately does not rise to invoking a POA. Her mom has every right to live in poverty and squalor if she so chooses. It is a very long hard process even if you have someone who cooperates. Pink's mom is not going to peacefully go just because Pink filled out the form for her. I don't think her mom is going to move unless a fire is lit under her ass or something bad happens. ETA: I feel for you Pink there are no easy answers when it comes to your mom. I get why they don't want us to be able to just lock up grandma/mom on a whim but I really feel there has to be some way to make things better for those us stuck in a grey zone with our elderly relatives. I mean they can charge my dad if my grandma got severely injured living alone because it is "neglect" but yet he couldn't move her back to CB where we could take care of her. She had every legal right to stay in Treynor alone. Please tell me how that makes any sense whatsoever. This is where my mom and her siblings are with my grandma. She doesn't need to be living alone. She has kids that will take her in, but she doesn't want to. You can't force someone to move. She has done some potentially dangerous things, but until something really bad happens, they can't do anything about it.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Oct 7, 2024 9:22:03 GMT -5
If Pink had to sell her house (which I certainly hope doesn't happen) but if she did and her mom would be homeless without taking steps that mom wouldn't like, would we still view that as negatively?
Other thought exercises...maybe it's more about trying to find someway to tap into that part of mom that would give her last $10 because you needed it. Get her cooperation. I know you've tried everything on that already and the only thing I keep thinking of is if you had to sell that house but I'm not sure that would be the best plan.
I don't know what kind of senior housing she realistically has access to, but it's possible she could find more community if she moved. More retired people to sit and visit with. Or the bus that picks up and drives to the grocery store.
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on Oct 7, 2024 9:29:36 GMT -5
I dunno…it’s one thing if the family is in agreement that the elder can’t function alone anymore but we are getting pressure from all directions to go straight to maximum care, don’t pass Go. My favorite was the GCM who never even met her jumping straight to 24/7 care I’m on board with daily check ins but she’s a long way from 24/7. She’s on top of most of her daily care, she arranged her own ride to a doctors appointment, she is mostly OK with bill paying. She is deeply paranoid, always has been, and I’m not worried about her falling for a scam. She needs some oversight to remind her or help her with things she forgets, not a 24/7 babysitter. She also wasn’t exactly normal ever, so judging her as if she used to be a normal person is not helpful. Frankly by their standards I probably have dementia and can’t live alone-at the end of the day if there’s something healthy and appealing available I’ll eat it but I don’t have the energy or brainpower to make a plan to cook food and execute it. There’s a reason these meal kits are so popular. Assisted living can be a mixed bag too. In laws hired an additional person 8 hours a day because they weren’t happy with the response times in their very nice and expensive AL facility; memory care was a disaster for FIL bc he fell out of bed and broke a leg and wasn’t found till the next morning. MIL moved him back with her to regular AL after that. YMMV.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Oct 7, 2024 9:30:01 GMT -5
If any of the church friends are in senior housing that you could take your mom for a visit - to catch up with an old friend and hopefully talk about how nice the place is. See if there are friends who can help you out - on the subtle upsell.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 7, 2024 9:31:50 GMT -5
If Pink had to sell her house (which I certainly hope doesn't happen) but if she did and her mom would be homeless without taking steps that mom wouldn't like, would we still view that as negatively? Other thought exercises...maybe it's more about trying to find someway to tap into that part of mom that would give her last $10 because you needed it. Get her cooperation. I know you've tried everything on that already and the only thing I keep thinking of is if you had to sell that house but I'm not sure that would be the best plan. I don't know what kind of senior housing she realistically has access to, but it's possible she could find more community if she moved. More retired people to sit and visit with. Or the bus that picks up and drives to the grocery store. I wouldn't because I've been there done that and have the anti-depressant prescription to prove it. It is a horribly crappy system that expects you to do your "family duty" while simultaneously supporting the elderly person sabotaging you at every turn. Are there days that it eats me alive how things have turned out? Absolutely. Are there days where I am beyond pissed that the system expected me to clean up my grandmother's mess when if we could have just been allowed to assist earlier none of this would have happened? Yes. Was there anything I could have done differently? Nope. I have to accept both my grandmother and GU FAFO and had to face the consequences of that. I could not protect them from themselves.
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seriousthistime
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Post by seriousthistime on Oct 7, 2024 9:32:59 GMT -5
So buy her gift cards to grocery stores, etc.
Some websites I'm looking at say gifts to a Medicaid recipient are not considered income. Other sites say gifts of up to $500 are not considered income.
The income level for Medicaid coverage for nursing homes in Pink's state is $2,839. I don't know of course, but I don't think we are looking at gifts that would push her mother's income beyond that.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Oct 7, 2024 9:37:05 GMT -5
I dunno…it’s one thing if the family is in agreement that the elder can’t function alone anymore but we are getting pressure from all directions to go straight to maximum care, don’t pass Go. My favorite was the GCM who never even met her jumping straight to 24/7 care I’m on board with daily check ins but she’s a long way from 24/7. She’s on top of most of her daily care, she arranged her own ride to a doctors appointment, she is mostly OK with bill paying. She is deeply paranoid, always has been, and I’m not worried about her falling for a scam. She needs some oversight to remind her or help her with things she forgets, not a 24/7 babysitter. She also wasn’t exactly normal ever, so judging her as if she used to be a normal person is not helpful. Frankly by their standards I probably have dementia and can’t live alone-at the end of the day if there’s something healthy and appealing available I’ll eat it but I don’t have the energy or brainpower to make a plan to cook food and execute it. There’s a reason these meal kits are so popular. Assisted living can be a mixed bag too. In laws hired an additional person 8 hours a day because they weren’t happy with the response times in their very nice and expensive AL facility; memory care was a disaster for FIL bc he fell out of bed and broke a leg and wasn’t found till the next morning. MIL moved him back with her to regular AL after that. YMMV. I swear they get kickbacks. We ran into the same thing with my grandma. I strongly encourage you or whoever it is you have handed medical POA over to go over your mother's medical records with a fine tooth comb. When my mom did she found all sorts of shit various doctors put in there that were influencing the homes/senior housing regarding whether or not they would accept her. Much of it was conflicting opinions as well. What is in those records WILL influence who is willing to house her. Keep her where she for as long as you can because if you remove her good luck getting her back into any type of apartment living. And the homes/senior housing all talk to each other too and compare notes. We found out that grandma's medical records at the time said she only needed one assistant for the bathroom. Her nursing home said she needed TWO assistants. Needing two assistants knocked out pretty much everywhere but a handful of nursing homes in both CB and Nebraska. Once they got you, they got you for the rest of your life.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Oct 7, 2024 9:40:05 GMT -5
And just to clarify again - I'm definitely not saying that pink would sign anything or coerce her into anything. But do the miserable, draining legwork that stops a lot of us from accomplishing all kinds of things. I'm sure there's more that's stopping mom from this particular task, but dealing with the mental and emotional load of tasks I don't want to do a lot of times means I don't do them. If Pink takes that on - its not fair to ask and it might not work - but if it did...
We have low income senior housing here that isn't snf or assisted living. That's what I'm picturing. Not full blown care.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Oct 7, 2024 9:50:42 GMT -5
Heading back home after quick visit with family in FL for cousins memorial service. Enjoyed family time. My mom is freaking out about hurricane , they are outside the target area, but are planning to leave on a trip to Montana tomorrow. Everyone keeps telling them to go on trip. My brother and family will likely go to their house as they are on west coast of FL in evac zone. Also my other brother and daughter can keep an eye on house if needed. My parents have been in house in Miami for 60 years, they have been through this many times, just their age is adding to it. My dad is also worried about company who just installed driveway pavers and needs to repair grass 🤷♀️
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Oct 7, 2024 9:53:00 GMT -5
I'm only liking NomoreDramaQ1015's post because it's the truth. If you have declining and very stubborn parents, it is VERY difficult to help them. They don't want to go into a nursing home, because they figure it means they're at death's door. But, even when it's not safe for them to live by themselves, the system makes it very difficult to move them somewhere more suited to their current needs without their cooperation. I get it that we don't want kids to "force" their parents into a home, but it shouldn't take a serious injury or worse to be able to move them to a safer situation. Amen! I have been telling my parents that they need to get their wishes written down forever so I know what they want me to do when the time comes. They don't even want to talk about it. They are dealing with the same thing with my grandma. Why do you insist on doing the same to me?
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seriousthistime
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Post by seriousthistime on Oct 7, 2024 9:55:40 GMT -5
I've tried to write down everything I can think of so when the time comes for me, the kids will know what to do.
And I've tried to talk to them about it but they don't want to.
I wish they would.
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on Oct 7, 2024 10:11:01 GMT -5
I dunno…it’s one thing if the family is in agreement that the elder can’t function alone anymore but we are getting pressure from all directions to go straight to maximum care, don’t pass Go. My favorite was the GCM who never even met her jumping straight to 24/7 care I’m on board with daily check ins but she’s a long way from 24/7. She’s on top of most of her daily care, she arranged her own ride to a doctors appointment, she is mostly OK with bill paying. She is deeply paranoid, always has been, and I’m not worried about her falling for a scam. She needs some oversight to remind her or help her with things she forgets, not a 24/7 babysitter. She also wasn’t exactly normal ever, so judging her as if she used to be a normal person is not helpful. Frankly by their standards I probably have dementia and can’t live alone-at the end of the day if there’s something healthy and appealing available I’ll eat it but I don’t have the energy or brainpower to make a plan to cook food and execute it. There’s a reason these meal kits are so popular. Assisted living can be a mixed bag too. In laws hired an additional person 8 hours a day because they weren’t happy with the response times in their very nice and expensive AL facility; memory care was a disaster for FIL bc he fell out of bed and broke a leg and wasn’t found till the next morning. MIL moved him back with her to regular AL after that. YMMV. I swear they get kickbacks. We ran into the same thing with my grandma. I strongly encourage you or whoever it is you have handed medical POA over to go over your mother's medical records with a fine tooth comb. When my mom did she found all sorts of shit various doctors put in there that were influencing the homes/senior housing regarding whether or not they would accept her. Much of it was conflicting opinions as well. What is in those records WILL influence who is willing to house her. Keep her where she for as long as you can because if you remove her good luck getting her back into any type of apartment living. And the homes/senior housing all talk to each other too and compare notes. We found out that grandma's medical records at the time said she only needed one assistant for the bathroom. Her nursing home said she needed TWO assistants. Needing two assistants knocked out pretty much everywhere but a handful of nursing homes in both CB and Nebraska. Once they got you, they got you for the rest of your life. I think in this case it’s less kickback motivated and more not wanting to be sued for recommending possibly insufficient care. Why risk a malpractice suit when you can avoid it by just blowing up someone else’s life? Hiring a geriatric case manager is partly meant to protect me against legal liability, as well as take some of the mental load off. I haven’t pursued things to determine whether the mPOA is legally activated partly bc I don’t want to know. It’s a little bit nuclear to step back, OB is nowhere near as competent as I am, so I am doing the head in sand thing. I suppose someone motivated could come along and make a case that she should be under state guardianship, but I don’t think anyone is particularly motivated to do so. I’m not sure I’d be particularly despondent to lose the responsibility if that happened.
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