what are you doing right now?

[raeoflyte]

Oct 22, 2023 11:11:55 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Oct 22, 2023 10:11:39 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

We had a recent conversation where I brought up my concerns. He didn't argue, but he doesn’t feel like he has a problem- and he also doesn't want to stop drinking everyday. He's stopped drinking for a few days, and I foresee a fight coming with him feeling like he's proven himself and me still upset and uncomfortable.

I'm sorry. This is the concerning part. The money part: eh. I don't think money spent is always good correlation to problematic behaviors. My DH didn't hardly spend money on his stuff.

Now, I'm not saying that you should jump to conclusions with your DH. He very well could not have any issues.

Have you considered going to some al-anon meetings? I know there's the whole religious aspect, and I think a person can still go and just ignore that, in the same way folks recite the pledge of allegiance and the god part.

My DH did not surrender to/completely accept the fact that he was an addict during recovery v1. Which is why we had recovery v2. And, while it is something I really couldn't have "known," it would have saved so much if he just would have shared that with me. Because *I* knew enough about addiction to know that without the surrender/acceptance, all "the work" he did was not going to keep him sober.. IoW, I would have known he was white knuckling it and therefore would have come to expect DH's slips/march towards a relapse.  When I did discover his near relapse, it wouldn't have been a thing. And I could have made an informed decision about whether or not I wanted to stay with DH before we had 4 kids.

Can't expect to someone to be honest with you, if they aren't honest with themselves.

I just wish someone would have helped me see that earlier. I think DH's therapist did try to tell him that, and I think DH did share that he found what his therapist said to be off-putting.

I agree that is concerning. Dh is an addict and always has been with pot, but I've been ok with that for the most part. I guess that is more effective or legitimate self medicating in my mind. He's upfront with medical professionals on what and how much he uses and why. It's the additional substance that bothers me, and the money part more just that he can't see how much he's spending on things just for himself that have 0 family benefit. I spend a lot on myself too, but I think it's squarely in the self help bucket that makes me a better person, mom, spouse, etc. And I would be sad, but I can cut out my personal spending if needed. I don't think he could.

I might check out al-anon. I guess it doesn't really matter to me if he is an alcoholic or not. I don't want daily drinking around the kids. It's not a healthy relationship with alcohol to be modeling and I probably should have realized it was happening sooner than I did.

[soupandstew]

Oct 22, 2023 11:13:41 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

Not pointing to anyone here in particular, but just wondering.  People here are sometimes on the "outs" with their SO or DH.  That's normal. 

My group of 5 close friends is much the same.  I'm not, I haven't been married in almost 20 years and the two longer term relationships I've had in that time are long over.  I have no desire to ever enter into a new relationship at this point.  I have enough unpleasant marriage memories.  The other 4 are in long term marriages. 

So in the group of 5 (or 4, not counting me), we recently talked about whether anyone would be open to finding someone new. Only one of them was open to it. The others were "definitely not!"

If for one reason or another you lost your spouse or significant other to death, divorce, dementia, whatever -- would you be open to another marriage or long term relationship? 

To me, it seems like women are more likely to say no that than are the men.  

Ironically, a group of us had this exact discussion Friday at lunch.  Three of the four women at the table were divorced or widowed, and they all said, while they would like a "companion" for parties, travel, etc., they don't want a live-in or even a stay-over relationship.  I, the only married one, said I felt the same way if I were to be alone.  

[seriousthistime]

Oct 22, 2023 10:11:39 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Since we're sharing spousal issues. I don't think I've posted anything about it, but dh's drinking is really bothering me. Over pandemic "everyone" was drinking more (I wasn't but it was pretty normal that people were drinking more) but I realized he's drinking everyday still. On top of his existing vices. He cut back his spending by more than 50% and it's still more than what I pay for dojo and private jiu-jitsu lessons - which isn't cheap.

We had a recent conversation where I brought up my concerns. He didn't argue, but he doesn’t feel like he has a problem- and he also doesn't want to stop drinking everyday. He's stopped drinking for a few days, and I foresee a fight coming with him feeling like he's proven himself and me still upset and uncomfortable.

But I think it comes down to I'm not comfortable with daily drinking, especially since he's already a daily Marijuana user. I get he has issues and I get the health care system is broken, but I think I've figured out my line on self medicating. Figuring out where to go from here though is going to be difficult. Dh is going to be looking for a specific frequency from me that I'm either good with or not and it's more nuanced than that. I'm not going to police his drinking but I'm not going to ride this forever.

The pandemic did seem to increase alcohol consumption, from what I can see. 

I live alone, and I used to be a daily drinker.  I ordered wine by the case from Total Wine, delivered to my house during the pandemic. I wasn't socializing much in person.  For my gender and age group, no more than one alcoholic drink per day is recommended.  I was routinely drinking 2-3 glasses of wine per day, and having to admit that to the doctor got uncomfortable, so I wasn't all that accurate with the doctor.  

After I spent 3 months snowbirding with my friends, who are big self-medicators, I realized I needed to make a change. I didn't have a physical need, but I had a fully-entrenched habit of looking forward to 5 o'clock, a psychological need. 

There are all sorts of ways to cut back, and I just filled the fridge with Sparkling Ice drinks and LaCroix.  When 5:00 rolled around I just grabbed one of those drinks.  First I put the drink in my favorite wine glass. Then I started drinking straight from the bottle or can, or a regular glass.

I still drink when I am out with friends (driving home basically limits the amount I will drink away from home) but I generally don't keep wine at home now.  Occasionally I will buy a bottle to bring home but it is occasional, like 1-2 bottles per month. 

All that to say, you can express your concern to someone, but that person needs to be ready to do something about it.  How you move from "I'm handling it fine" to "I have a problem I have to do something about" is tricky, and it can be a slow process. I was drinking enough in the past that I was slightly concerned about it, but not as much as someone from the outside looking in would be. Without a precipitating event like a DUI or a fall/ER visit, it was easy to convince myself that maybe I was drinking too much but I was handling it okay, so what's the problem? And maybe I was, but I know it wasn't good for me. I do feel much better these days.  My GI tract is functioning much more comfortably, and I'm sure my liver appreciates it.  My sleep is still not great, but I'm less likely to wake up in the middle of the night now. 

Are there any obvious health concerns that could be addressed with DH's drinking?  Otherwise you are pulling an arbitrary number of drinks per day/week out of a hat. When you say the health care system is broken, has he given prescription pharmaceuticals a real try?






   

[daisylu]

That said, please help me not be petty. I got up with DH at 530 to make him breakfast before he left for work. I cook sausage patties once a month and he usually eats 1 with cheese on an english muffin. I fried an egg to add to it. Then I saw him looking through his wallet and asked what he was looking for. Cash, because they are ordering lunch. Which means he will overeat and be miserable the rest of the day. Had I known I would have kept my ass in bed.

Add in last night when I said I was going to pick some leftover chicken and make bone broth and chicken and dumplings for dinner. Dinner that he will not eat if he eats a big lunch.

And he had the nerve to wish me luck on the dumplings (I sometimes struggle) via text earlier.
I don't want to bother now, other than the fact that I know he will force himself to eat it anyway because I let him know how unhappy I was that he didn't mention ordering out last night.

[Pink Cashmere]

Oct 22, 2023 10:55:22 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Oct 22, 2023 8:07:36 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

There's little logic involved in any of our emotions though. 
We're not Vulcan. 

My mother taught us to be upset if someone used something new before she got to. 

I'd also be pissed in your DS's role. Logical? No. Normal? Yes. 

I can honestly say that none of our four children--in their status quo-- would have allowed the fiance to hold the baby.

I can see if our daughter was drugged up or if one of our sons was not there or it had been a super long labor and he was sleeping in the corner. 

But, in a coherent state, none of our children would let the fiance hold the baby before either DH or I did.  

I understand those who DO NOT have that reaction. Please at least accept that some of us would have that reaction. 

Interesting.  And this does make sense, especially when factored in that fiancée is the woman who helped break up the marriage.  Sister hates her with a visceral passion, even though logically she recognizes that her ex was as much to blame.  I know this plays into it too.

I think that she’s also stymied by the fact that Sister tried to do what’s best for her son’s new family, and respect their wishes and her ex just trampled all over them…..giving credence to its easier to beg forgiveness after the fact.  

I really am trying to understand this, so you guys have helped me a bit.  M6 eyeballs are not rolling back into my head quite as much!

This new information changed everything for me. Given all of that, I completely understand why your sister is upset. 

[chiver78]

I ended up being awake until probably 3 or so, and my "hey stupid!" weekend alarm scared the hell out of me when it went off at 8am. oops. I've fed the dogs, done a big grocery shop, read the newspaper, wiped out both XL battery packs on my leaf blower in clearing the crushed acorns off my driveway and enough of the leaves off the backyard grass to find the mystery poops and clear them. now I'm sitting on my butt, giving the Patriots a chance to show me something good today. I have zero issue finding another channel to turn to if they don't. I'm just happy to be outside while I'm watching! 

[raeoflyte]

Oct 22, 2023 11:45:15 GMT -5 seriousthistime said:

Oct 22, 2023 10:11:39 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Since we're sharing spousal issues. I don't think I've posted anything about it, but dh's drinking is really bothering me. Over pandemic "everyone" was drinking more (I wasn't but it was pretty normal that people were drinking more) but I realized he's drinking everyday still. On top of his existing vices. He cut back his spending by more than 50% and it's still more than what I pay for dojo and private jiu-jitsu lessons - which isn't cheap.

We had a recent conversation where I brought up my concerns. He didn't argue, but he doesn’t feel like he has a problem- and he also doesn't want to stop drinking everyday. He's stopped drinking for a few days, and I foresee a fight coming with him feeling like he's proven himself and me still upset and uncomfortable.

But I think it comes down to I'm not comfortable with daily drinking, especially since he's already a daily Marijuana user. I get he has issues and I get the health care system is broken, but I think I've figured out my line on self medicating. Figuring out where to go from here though is going to be difficult. Dh is going to be looking for a specific frequency from me that I'm either good with or not and it's more nuanced than that. I'm not going to police his drinking but I'm not going to ride this forever.

The pandemic did seem to increase alcohol consumption, from what I can see. 

I live alone, and I used to be a daily drinker.  I ordered wine by the case from Total Wine, delivered to my house during the pandemic. I wasn't socializing much in person.  For my gender and age group, no more than one alcoholic drink per day is recommended.  I was routinely drinking 2-3 glasses of wine per day, and having to admit that to the doctor got uncomfortable, so I wasn't all that accurate with the doctor.  

After I spent 3 months snowbirding with my friends, who are big self-medicators, I realized I needed to make a change. I didn't have a physical need, but I had a fully-entrenched habit of looking forward to 5 o'clock, a psychological need. 

There are all sorts of ways to cut back, and I just filled the fridge with Sparkling Ice drinks and LaCroix.  When 5:00 rolled around I just grabbed one of those drinks.  First I put the drink in my favorite wine glass. Then I started drinking straight from the bottle or can, or a regular glass.

I still drink when I am out with friends (driving home basically limits the amount I will drink away from home) but I generally don't keep wine at home now.  Occasionally I will buy a bottle to bring home but it is occasional, like 1-2 bottles per month. 

All that to say, you can express your concern to someone, but that person needs to be ready to do something about it.  How you move from "I'm handling it fine" to "I have a problem I have to do something about" is tricky, and it can be a slow process. I was drinking enough in the past that I was slightly concerned about it, but not as much as someone from the outside looking in would be. Without a precipitating event like a DUI or a fall/ER visit, it was easy to convince myself that maybe I was drinking too much but I was handling it okay, so what's the problem? And maybe I was, but I know it wasn't good for me. I do feel much better these days.  My GI tract is functioning much more comfortably, and I'm sure my liver appreciates it.  My sleep is still not great, but I'm less likely to wake up in the middle of the night now. 

Are there any obvious health concerns that could be addressed with DH's drinking?  Otherwise you are pulling an arbitrary number of drinks per day/week out of a hat. When you say the health care system is broken, has he given prescription pharmaceuticals a real try?






   

Do you mean is it causing any obvious problems? If so, no. It can be a migraine trigger which is why I don't understand why he risks it a lot of times, but just living can be a migraine trigger so it is really hard to tell.

He has tried multiple doctors, meds, and pt, accupuncture. I think he should try more, but I know it's exhausting to keep trying and not get anywhere.

[giramomma]

Ohhh I found a pattern. All I want to do is cut out tiny pieces of fabric now.

Boo.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Oct 22, 2023 10:55:22 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Interesting.  And this does make sense, especially when factored in that fiancée is the woman who helped break up the marriage.  Sister hates her with a visceral passion, even though logically she recognizes that her ex was as much to blame.  I know this plays into it too.

Not that you'll be able to convince her and everything takes time, but from my experience, letting that hate go is wonderful.  Embrace the new life and power on.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Oct 22, 2023 1:42:30 GMT -5 snapdragon said:

Just came back from watching a local theatre performance of Blythe Spirit. It was fun and I had a decent time with a few friends.

I’ve been in this play before.  This one was fun to do.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Oct 22, 2023 2:00:09 GMT -5 countrygirl2 said:

We get our premium rate increase for our supplements for medicare in November, anyone gotten them yet?

I have for prescriptions.  I’ve gotta go hunting again.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Oct 22, 2023 10:20:21 GMT -5 Sharon said:

Pink Cashmere when I was having issues with hot flashes and sleeping way too hot at night the doctor suggested I take Basic B Complex supplements.  It contains all the B vitamins.  Best suggestion ever I stopped waking up drenched in sweat and slept better at night. 

Yeah, I tried everything on the market to bring down hot flashes.  I finally cried ‘uncle’ to my GYN, and he prescribed Prempro.  OMG!  Life and sleeping got sooooo much better.  TD said he could feel the heat emanating off me from the other side of the bed!  I was miserable, I’d be drenched in sweat, then need to get up and change clothes because they were cold and clammy.  

They took me off my hormones when they removed my first hip.  I don’t remember it being bad in the hospital, but while I was in the nursing home, they finally gave them back it was so bad.  I had my window open (in Jan) and the heat turned off and I was still sweating through the hospital gown and sheets.  Anyone coming into my room to deal with me knew they needed to wear a jacket or they’d freeze.  Thinking back, I had had hip surgery…..which made me a risk for DVTs.  I was on hormones, which added to that risk, so I got to inject my belly with meds to prevent them….and it was preferable to the hot flashes.  

[soupandstew]

Just went online and checked the 2024 formulary - all our prescriptions are still covered at zero copay.  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Oct 22, 2023 12:13:07 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Oct 22, 2023 10:55:22 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Interesting.  And this does make sense, especially when factored in that fiancée is the woman who helped break up the marriage.  Sister hates her with a visceral passion, even though logically she recognizes that her ex was as much to blame.  I know this plays into it too.

Not that you'll be able to convince her and everything takes time, but from my experience, letting that hate go is wonderful.  Embrace the new life and power on.

I agree with you 100%.  If you knew how many times I told my sister that she’s letting fiancée live rent free in her brain, I’d be rich if I was getting money for it.  

What it boils down to is that fiancée how has the life my sister wanted.  Big house, pool, social life.  It doesn’t matter that my ex BIL is 60 years old, has less than $100k in retirement accounts, a $500+k (with a HELOC) mortgage and has absolutely NO savings, despite his $180k/year job.  He spends every freaking dime he gets and owes my sister in back spousal support.  

She understands logically that she’s better off without his spending habit (who spends $800/mo at a liquor store?) but it’s still this emotional thing she just doesn’t want to seem to let go of.  Being out here has helped….some.  

[weltz]

Interesting. And this does make sense, especially when factored in that fiancée is the woman who helped break up the marriage. Sister hates her with a visceral passion, even though logically she recognizes that her ex was as much to blame. I know this plays into it too.

Another woman cannot break up a healthy marriage.

[wvugurl26]

It's probably hard for the sister right now mich being in that in between stage. Logically she knows she's better off without him but this isn't what she planned. Not what she devoted years of her life to. Right now as she's living with her sister, trying to get established back in the workforce, sell her house and get a new one it hurts.

She can logically know she's doing the right thing and that she'll be better off in the long run and still be upset that it's going slowly and this other person has what she wants. She's trying to do right for herself and by her kids and the pay off isn't immediate. It can suck.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Oct 22, 2023 12:59:32 GMT -5 weltz said:

Interesting. And this does make sense, especially when factored in that fiancée is the woman who helped break up the marriage. Sister hates her with a visceral passion, even though logically she recognizes that her ex was as much to blame. I know this plays into it too.

Another woman cannot break up a healthy marriage.

I didn’t say that.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Oct 22, 2023 8:30:35 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Oct 22, 2023 8:07:36 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

There's little logic involved in any of our emotions though. 
We're not Vulcan. 

My mother taught us to be upset if someone used something new before she got to. 

I'd also be pissed in your DS's role. Logical? No. Normal? Yes. 

I can honestly say that none of our four children--in their status quo-- would have allowed the fiance to hold the baby.

I can see if our daughter was drugged up or if one of our sons was not there or it had been a super long labor and he was sleeping in the corner. 

But, in a coherent state, none of our children would let the fiance hold the baby before either DH or I did.  

I understand those who DO NOT have that reaction. Please at least accept that some of us would have that reaction. 

That's interesting. I could see my DD1 letting DH's fiance hold the baby first.  For a whole host of reasons.

And she wouldn't think anything of it, because my kids grew up nothing like I did.

And, I could see talking to someone about my feelings (whether it was a trusted friend or therapist) so that I didn't put how I grew up on my kids.

That seems like an incredibly harsh thing to say in a space in which I thought we could share.

[countrygirl2]

That was our problem, hubs drinking. He told me noone will quit until they decide they need to do it.

It took hubs 13 years and a DUI arrest before he did. Ended up a with a years probation and they let him know if he screwed up he would go to jail. I think he was in shock and finally quit. But it was years before I could except it. Everytime he worked late, or was late coming home, I just knew he was drinking again.

But also what helped us was being 1000 miles away from his drinking buddies. If we had not been away from them I don't think he could have or would have ever quit. It was the best thing he ever did. After that he started improving his lot in life a ton. He started moving up that ladder and with the progress I got more confident in him and I think he did too.

It's been years now probably close to 35 at least. Was better for all of us.

I know from experience you can't nag them into stopping, has to be their decision, good luck.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Oct 22, 2023 13:05:24 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

It's probably hard for the sister right now mich being in that in between stage. Logically she knows she's better off without him but this isn't what she planned. Not what she devoted years of her life to. Right now as she's living with her sister, trying to get established back in the workforce, sell her house and get a new one it hurts.

She can logically know she's doing the right thing and that she'll be better off in the long run and still be upset that it's going slowly and this other person has what she wants. She's trying to do right for herself and by her kids and the pay off isn't immediate. It can suck.

Very much this.  I get it.  

[countrygirl2]

I have been on hormones, premarin, ever since I had a hysterectomy. I tried natural ones and some other kinds because years ago said they were not good for me. I was in misery for those few months and I said never again. I stayed on 1.25mg for years, finally about 4 years ago I went to .625. My doc had no problem either way. I have never suffered from hot flashes or issues like that. I will likely take them till the day I die. I can't even imagine suffering like some women do, I refuse to. They even put my mom on this dose at age 82 or so as her bladder and organs were getting stiff. In a few months they helped her too.

Now they are kind of backtracking and saying they do help unlike they said some years back.

[chiver78]

Oct 22, 2023 14:27:22 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Oct 22, 2023 8:30:35 GMT -5 giramomma said:

That's interesting. I could see my DD1 letting DH's fiance hold the baby first.  For a whole host of reasons.

And she wouldn't think anything of it, because my kids grew up nothing like I did.

And, I could see talking to someone about my feelings (whether it was a trusted friend or therapist) so that I didn't put how I grew up on my kids.

That seems like an incredibly harsh thing to say in a space in which I thought we could share.

it's a lot less harsh coming from Gira, with everything she has posted, than the absolutely tone deaf post from welts. 🤷‍♀️

[Artemis Windsong]

I'm glad for your hub's success.

My parent's and brother's had alcohol addiction.  My oldest brother has had a lot of DUIs.  The ads would say it will cost you $10,000.  They didn't cost him that.  In my early 20s, I went several times with my DD to bail my DM out of jail.  Middle brother went just once but that didn't cure him.  Middle brother also had his run ins with the police.  After my DM passed, middle brother and his girlfriend were my DD's drinking buddies.  The largest bottle of vodka that could be bought was usually in the freezer or in the bread box.  Their iced tea was very smooth.  Then they told me what was in it. Mid-bro and his GF had to help DD escape the police by having a police tracker.  They hear the make/model of car and get there first.  They'd hide the car or race home to put it in the garage.  I'm completely estranged from my older brother.  He was so bad, I had to get my portion of the house equity so he didn't get it confiscated.

I have managed to not be in bondage to alcohol.  It does not appeal to me anymore.  Oddly, if I did have the random beer, the family chided me for being a drinker.  A bullying technique.

H. does have a drink in the late afternoon but not too close to bedtime or he can't sleep.  There is no driving involved or going out.  He will share pitchers of beer with the guys after golf.  That group is odd.  Every one of the guys orders a pitcher of beer to share with everyone else who ordered a pitcher of beer.

From her experience, a late GF told me a dry drunk is one of the worst people to deal with.

ETA: I would like to have the money my family spent on alcohol and related problems.

[Artemis Windsong]

Oct 22, 2023 15:57:08 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Oct 22, 2023 13:05:24 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

It's probably hard for the sister right now mich being in that in between stage. Logically she knows she's better off without him but this isn't what she planned. Not what she devoted years of her life to. Right now as she's living with her sister, trying to get established back in the workforce, sell her house and get a new one it hurts.

She can logically know she's doing the right thing and that she'll be better off in the long run and still be upset that it's going slowly and this other person has what she wants. She's trying to do right for herself and by her kids and the pay off isn't immediate. It can suck.

Very much this.  I get it.  

Same.  I do wish her the best to have a better life.  I was hurt, lonely but thrived.

[Cheesy FL-Vol]

Trying to figure out if I should turn myself in for money laundering? I found .32 in the washer. 🤔

[minnesotapaintlady]

Oct 22, 2023 16:06:05 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Oct 22, 2023 14:27:22 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

That seems like an incredibly harsh thing to say in a space in which I thought we could share.

it's a lot less harsh coming from Gira, with everything she has posted, than the absolutely tone deaf post from welts. 🤷‍♀️

I get where welts was coming from too. By the time there's an affair the marriage was probably a hot mess anyhow even if both parties weren't aware of that quite yet.

[toomuchreality]

Oct 22, 2023 16:37:34 GMT -5 Cheesy FL-Vol said:

Trying to figure out if I should turn myself in for money laundering? I found .32 in the washer. 🤔

🤣🤣🤣
I hope you don't get caught! 🤣

[giramomma]

Oct 22, 2023 14:27:22 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

Oct 22, 2023 8:30:35 GMT -5 giramomma said:

That's interesting. I could see my DD1 letting DH's fiance hold the baby first.  For a whole host of reasons.

And she wouldn't think anything of it, because my kids grew up nothing like I did.

And, I could see talking to someone about my feelings (whether it was a trusted friend or therapist) so that I didn't put how I grew up on my kids.

That seems like an incredibly harsh thing to say in a space in which I thought we could share.

I am really sorry. I didn't mean it as being harsh.

I really just meant to say that I could see my kid doing something completely different.

And I don't think DD1 would do it in a mean/malicious way.  She could be like "Mom, I'm not going to sit around and wait for you to get/take time off to see my kid first."

She also has a preference for DH. Out of all my kids, my relationship with her isn't like the others.

And, she probably would expect that I would handle it with grace, if I don't get to see her kid right away. Her expectations are that adults don't keep score. She's really never seen adults model that behavior. And I think if she did, she'd be like "WTF?" She's also my kid that really picks up on the fact that when I'm stressed or otherwise feeling negative emotions or being triggered, I revert to seeing relationships as adversarial instead partnerships. She gets upset about that. My other kids either don't see it or don't get bothered by it.

And come on, it's me. I wouldn't handle it with grace. Which is why I would talk to someone else or a therapist to work through all of that so I get to grace.

I just thought I would spare every one all of that.

[weltz]

Oct 22, 2023 16:50:54 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Oct 22, 2023 16:06:05 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

it's a lot less harsh coming from Gira, with everything she has posted, than the absolutely tone deaf post from welts. 🤷‍♀️

I get where welts was coming from too. By the time there's an affair the marriage was probably a hot mess anyhow even if both parties weren't aware of that quite yet.

Thank you!  A happy husband does not find solace in the arms of another.

[Pink Cashmere]

Oct 22, 2023 17:07:58 GMT -5 weltz said:

Oct 22, 2023 16:50:54 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

I get where welts was coming from too. By the time there's an affair the marriage was probably a hot mess anyhow even if both parties weren't aware of that quite yet.

Thank you!  A happy husband does not find solace in the arms of another.

Men (and women) do entertain and get involved with other people, even when they have what they admit themselves is a good marriage and a good spouse….. if they are lacking in character.