Are You the Same Person?

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 22, 2022 21:49:19 GMT -5 @beckaroo said:

Apr 22, 2022 11:55:03 GMT -5 imawino said:

LMAO.  You may not be a christian but you sure are holier-than-thou!  

I threw in the Christianity thing because I have read people comment on these boards about the Republicans claiming to be Christians. That made me think the Democrats making those comments know true Christianity. Sorry if I misinterpreted the comments.

I always claim not to know enough about politics to argue Republican vs. Democrat. I quietly vote for whoever I consider the best candidate is. Independently. I have been an independent voter since I was 18 years old. 

What's the general consensus? Do independent voters wear masks and get vaccinated?

Perhaps you might want to read this link, and consider that Christianity isn’t Republican or Democrat, but how you treat and consider your fellow man.   

johnpavlovitz.com/2022/04/10/a-funeral-for-my-christianity-2/

[nidena]

Apr 22, 2022 16:56:46 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

I feel some type of way that this thread has devolved into yet another conversation about the vaccines. But I guess maybe that’s easier to talk about than the original subject?

Obviously, there wasn't enough conversation about them in the Vac/UnVac threads.

To add to my response a few pages back.

I'm much more protective of my mental health and that includes being much more selective in the social media venues that I participate with/on.  I've pulled back off of numerous threads here on the boards and a few subs on reddit.  On FB, I removed myself from a number of groups that veered in a direction that I didn't agree with or that used language that was harmful to causes that I support.  Before, I would have argued my position or tried to convince someone of how their words/thinking do harm in the world but I just don't have the spoons for it.

I'm a round peg and no longer strive to make myself fit into square holes.

[NastyWoman]

I will answer the subject question directly even though I am sure that I have shown my feelings in many posts, specifically those related to Covid. I am NOT the same person I was before this pandemic. I have always been an impatient person but I had worked very hard for decades (ever since I gave birth to my oldest 44years ago) dnd I had made great strides if I do say so myself. But 2 years of display of utter selfishness by certain groups of people who can't be bothered to wear masks. On the pretense they "can't breathe" with them on and we are supposed to believe that? Give me a break, if they truly can't breathe with a mask on they were in the most endangered group and had no business being out and about to begin with. Then when vaccines were available these same people changed course and either "found religion" even though they vaccinated their kids for all kinds of diseases before, or they acted and stil act like telling people to get vaxxed is the equivalent of being persecuted like the Jews were during WWII. And that they consciously endanger others with their behavior - well that is just an unfortunate side effect of them claiming their "personal freedom". And don't even get me started of the "pro-life" laws that have been pushed through lately by those states where people were shouting the loudest about personal freedom!.

So no, I am not the same person I was in March 2020. I have been very disappointed in the behavior of many and my nicer self has fallen victim to that. I reserve that nice person for people who deserve to meet that person.

[giramomma]

Apr 22, 2022 22:43:31 GMT -5 nidena said:

I'm a round peg and no longer strive to make myself fit into square holes.

Yeah. I figured that out in my early/mid 20s.

It's pretty freeing when you get to the point that you are like..hey I've got my own drummer..and that's what I'm listening to.

[chiver78]

here's that link I promised - The Atlantic

it's a long one, but well worth it. grab a cup of coffee first. 

[giramomma]

Apr 22, 2022 22:47:42 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

I will answer the subject question directly even though I am sure that I have shown my feelings in many posts, specifically those related to Covid. I am NOT the same person I was before this pandemic. I have always been an impatient person but I had worked very hard for decades (ever since I gave birth to my oldest 44years ago. And I had made great strides if I do say so myself. But 2 years of display of utter selfishness by certain groups of people who can't be bothered to wear masks. On the pretense they "can't breathe" with them on and we are supposed to believe that? Give me a break, if they truly can't breathe with a mask on they were in the most endangered group and had no business being out and about to begin with. Then when vaccines were available these same people changed course and either "found religion" even though they vaccinated their kids for all kinds of diseases before, or they acted and stil act like telling people to get vaxxed is the equivalent of being persecuted like the Jews were during WWII. And that they consciously endanger others with their behavior - well that is just an unfortunate side effect of them claiming their "personal freedom". And don't even get me started of the "pro-life" laws that have been pushed through lately by those states where people were shouting the loudest about personal fredom!.

So no, I am not the same person I was in March 2020. I have been very disappointed in the behavior of many and my nicer self has fallen victim to that. I reserve that nice person for people who deserve to meet that person.

I somehow missed the "supposed to be more patient as you age." gene.

I'm still pretty patient with the kids, either my own or the kids I teach.

What I have noticed is my reaction when dealing with adults that don't live up to what I consider to be appropriate standards (I do set a pretty high bar, since I expect the same out of others that I expect from myself). In my 30s, I was much more willing to let it go. In my 40s, not so much.

I am not perfect beyond any stretch. All I ask for is direct communication combined with folks owning their stuff.  You know, words and deeds matching.

.,

It's really surprising how so many folks can't do that. Or maybe it's because I can't full escape the fact that the first third or so of my life (hopefully) was steeped in dysfunction. I don't think it's only the dysfunction, because I see it at work, too.

And the reframing is so insulting.

I'm 46. I can see that catch phrases like "empowerment" and "distributing ownership" is really code for "I'm way over my head and I nee your help getting my stuff done."

Why not just say "I'm in over my head. I need help.  Can you shuffle your stuff around so that you can take this task off my plate?"

Or...Instead of saying "I'm too busy for a, b, or c.?" why can't you just say "I'm no longer interested in doing a, b, or c because..."

I mean. I'm a big girl. I can handle hearing things I don't want to hear. Sure, I'll be upset. Yes. I know I have FOMO. Yes, I'm working on it. But, if you legit give me a plausible reason, I'll get over it pretty quickly. I'm not unreasonable.

I just want to understand the field in which I am playing on. And I get pissed off pretty quick now, if I don't understand the field because others decide I don't need it.

[ners]

I am not the same person I was prior to Covid.  Heck my view of life changed in this last week.

I do not necessary like the person I am today.  I have to remember I am work in progress.

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

Apr 13, 2022 18:27:42 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Brene Brown included this on a post on FB:

"The world is always changing. Now it's a racial
reckoning and a pandemic. Before this, we had
the 2008 recession and the dot-com boom.
If you think you're going to come in and operate
your business as if it's February 2020, you're
going to get crushed.
If you think you're leading the same workforce
people with the same mindset, the same
mentality, the same desires, and the same
priorities- you are nuts.
You have to change or get out of the way.
There's no turning back. This is the big reset,
and that's where the hope and opportunity live"
-Scott Sonenshein




So, have any of the things that have happened since the beginning of 2020 caused you to see things differently about life, our society, our country, work, your life in particular, or anything? Did any of the things we went through as a nation and as individuals over the last couple of years change you in any way?

The pandemic has permanently altered how I do my job--both philosophically and practically. 
The nationwide shutdown of schools from mid-March 2020 - August 2020 was devastating to me. My entire professional worth was knocked away. In dealing with that, I've actually tried to find other things to do in my life. I will spend the remainder of my career in public education. However, I now realize that while it is important work, I do need to have other stuff in my life. Part of that is caused by my youngest child graduating from high school in 2019. "finishing" the raising of children definitely had an impact at on me also; combining that with the pandemic has been life-altering.

There are political and religious impacts for me as well, but  I don't have time to delve into that right now.  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 22, 2022 22:43:31 GMT -5 nidena said:

Apr 22, 2022 16:56:46 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

I feel some type of way that this thread has devolved into yet another conversation about the vaccines. But I guess maybe that’s easier to talk about than the original subject?

Obviously, there wasn't enough conversation about them in the Vac/UnVac threads.

To add to my response a few pages back.

I'm much more protective of my mental health and that includes being much more selective in the social media venues that I participate with/on.  I've pulled back off of numerous threads here on the boards and a few subs on reddit.  On FB, I removed myself from a number of groups that veered in a direction that I didn't agree with or that used language that was harmful to causes that I support.  Before, I would have argued my position or tried to convince someone of how their words/thinking do harm in the world but I just don't have the spoons for it.

I'm a round peg and no longer strive to make myself fit into square holes.

I think a lot of the reasons why people feel that they’ve changed is that they’ve gotten slapped in the face with the vax/unvaccinated debate and you simply cannot uncouple it from the changes in the way many feel.  This has been a slap in the face to many, and it’s even worse when it’s a close family member.

[Mardi Gras Audrey]

I have changed a lot in the last 2 years. I’ve become more jaded and sad about how little people seem to care about others. I work in healthcare and seeing how our management and our patients seem to think of us as disposable was very disheartening. It’s also frustrating hearing people have no consideration for others and act like 2 year olds when they don’t get their way. Makes me appreciate the kind people more.

I did change jobs to work for people that value their staff more. I realized that my family and friends are more important and I don’t want to miss things with them in order to please people who give no care to me or coworkers. It has helped me be able to talk time off and lower the blood pressure...😀

All of this has made me appreciate the other people out there more... the grocery store clerks, food workers, postal carriers, retail workers. I appreciate all of them more and try to make their day better if I can...

[laterbloomer]

Apr 22, 2022 9:10:00 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Getting vaccinated makes you a smarter person, plain and simple. If everyone was vaccinated about $250k deaths could have been avoided. Name another medical intervention that is that effective.

Prove it. Prove that 250,000 people would not have died. And prove that you won't be saying something different after more information comes in.

[chiver78]

Apr 24, 2022 16:52:23 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 22, 2022 9:10:00 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Getting vaccinated makes you a smarter person, plain and simple. If everyone was vaccinated about $250k deaths could have been avoided. Name another medical intervention that is that effective.

Prove it. Prove that 250,000 people would not have died. And prove that you won't be saying something different after more information comes in.

and how did you fare with polio? oh that's right, you were likely vaccinated against it. back when the general public listened to medical professionals instead of the echo chambers they sought online.

[tallguy]

Apr 24, 2022 16:52:23 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 22, 2022 9:10:00 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Getting vaccinated makes you a smarter person, plain and simple. If everyone was vaccinated about $250k deaths could have been avoided. Name another medical intervention that is that effective.

Prove it. Prove that 250,000 people would not have died. And prove that you won't be saying something different after more information comes in.

covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status

This link says that the risk of death is 20 times higher for unvaccinated persons as opposed to fully-vaccinated persons during the time period.  I have read various numbers at different times saying that it was 14 or 17 times higher at that time, although those numbers may not have included boosters.  I hope you do not think that simply updating the numbers qualifies as, "saying something different after more information comes in." 

This link:
www.statista.com/statistics/1257040/number-covid-deaths-canada-by-vaccination-status/

shows the number of deaths in Canada over the recent 15-month period since vaccines began being distributed.  You will notice the much higher number of deaths among the unvaccinated even though over 80% of the country is now fully vaccinated.  While it is difficult if not impossible to make the numbers exact from this data, since the timing of vaccinations is not given, it should be easily seen that the percentage of unvaccinated persons dying is many times the percentage of vaccinated persons dying.  I don't know where the 250,000 number came from, but either way vaccinations greatly decrease your chance of death.  Shouldn't that be the real takeaway?

And even for those who do not care about their own risk of dying, there is evidence that being vaccinated significantly lowers the chance that you will pass on the virus to others if you do get infected.  While I believe fully in someone's ability to make decisions on things that solely affect them, I do not grant them the same autonomy over decisions that can harm others.  One can choose not to be vaccinated if he/she wants, but should not expect the "right" to participate fully in society if they make that choice.    

[laterbloomer]

Apr 24, 2022 17:48:29 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Apr 24, 2022 16:52:23 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Prove it. Prove that 250,000 people would not have died. And prove that you won't be saying something different after more information comes in.

and how did you fare with polio? oh that's right, you were likely vaccinated against it. back when the general public listened to medical professionals instead of the echo chambers they sought online.

Diseases run their courses. I wasn't vaccinated against the Black Plague and I've never had that either.

[laterbloomer]

Apr 24, 2022 18:15:19 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Apr 24, 2022 16:52:23 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Prove it. Prove that 250,000 people would not have died. And prove that you won't be saying something different after more information comes in.

covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status

This link says that the risk of death is 20 times higher for unvaccinated persons as opposed to fully-vaccinated persons during the time period.  I have read various numbers at different times saying that it was 14 or 17 times higher at that time, although those numbers may not have included boosters.  I hope you do not think that simply updating the numbers qualifies as, "saying something different after more information comes in." 

This link:
www.statista.com/statistics/1257040/number-covid-deaths-canada-by-vaccination-status/

shows the number of deaths in Canada over the recent 15-month period since vaccines began being distributed.  You will notice the much higher number of deaths among the unvaccinated even though over 80% of the country is now fully vaccinated.  While it is difficult if not impossible to make the numbers exact from this data, since the timing of vaccinations is not given, it should be easily seen that the percentage of unvaccinated persons dying is many times the percentage of vaccinated persons dying.  I don't know where the 250,000 number came from, but either way vaccinations greatly decrease your chance of death.  Shouldn't that be the real takeaway?

And even for those who do not care about their own risk of dying, there is evidence that being vaccinated significantly lowers the chance that you will pass on the virus to others if you do get infected.  While I believe fully in someone's ability to make decisions on things that solely affect them, I do not grant them the same autonomy over decisions that can harm others.  One can choose not to be vaccinated if he/she wants, but should not expect the "right" to participate fully in society if they make that choice.    

Case rates don't impress me much. People that get vaccinated are likely to follow other protocols as well so that could be correlation rather than causation.
I would like to know more about the unvaccinated deaths. Why were those people unvaccinated? If they were worried about being vaccinated because of other health issues they would have possibly died even if they were vaccinated. I would also like to know why the vaccinated deaths happened.
These studies are encouraging but you still can't promise the conclusions will not change given more information. So the arrogance towards people that are not as convinced as you are is way out of line.

[pulmonarymd]

Apr 24, 2022 19:22:47 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 24, 2022 18:15:19 GMT -5 tallguy said:

covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status

This link says that the risk of death is 20 times higher for unvaccinated persons as opposed to fully-vaccinated persons during the time period.  I have read various numbers at different times saying that it was 14 or 17 times higher at that time, although those numbers may not have included boosters.  I hope you do not think that simply updating the numbers qualifies as, "saying something different after more information comes in." 

This link:
www.statista.com/statistics/1257040/number-covid-deaths-canada-by-vaccination-status/

shows the number of deaths in Canada over the recent 15-month period since vaccines began being distributed.  You will notice the much higher number of deaths among the unvaccinated even though over 80% of the country is now fully vaccinated.  While it is difficult if not impossible to make the numbers exact from this data, since the timing of vaccinations is not given, it should be easily seen that the percentage of unvaccinated persons dying is many times the percentage of vaccinated persons dying.  I don't know where the 250,000 number came from, but either way vaccinations greatly decrease your chance of death.  Shouldn't that be the real takeaway?

And even for those who do not care about their own risk of dying, there is evidence that being vaccinated significantly lowers the chance that you will pass on the virus to others if you do get infected.  While I believe fully in someone's ability to make decisions on things that solely affect them, I do not grant them the same autonomy over decisions that can harm others.  One can choose not to be vaccinated if he/she wants, but should not expect the "right" to participate fully in society if they make that choice.    

Case rates don't impress me much. People that get vaccinated are likely to follow other protocols as well so that could be correlation rather than causation.
I would like to know more about the unvaccinated deaths. Why were those people unvaccinated? If they were worried about being vaccinated because of other health issues they would have possibly died even if they were vaccinated. I would also like to know why the vaccinated deaths happened.
These studies are encouraging but you still can't promise the conclusions will not change given more information. So the arrogance towards people that are not as convinced as you are is way out of line.

Get a clue. You clearly are ignorant about medicine and science

[tallguy]

Apr 24, 2022 19:22:47 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 24, 2022 18:15:19 GMT -5 tallguy said:

covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status

This link says that the risk of death is 20 times higher for unvaccinated persons as opposed to fully-vaccinated persons during the time period.  I have read various numbers at different times saying that it was 14 or 17 times higher at that time, although those numbers may not have included boosters.  I hope you do not think that simply updating the numbers qualifies as, "saying something different after more information comes in." 

This link:
www.statista.com/statistics/1257040/number-covid-deaths-canada-by-vaccination-status/

shows the number of deaths in Canada over the recent 15-month period since vaccines began being distributed.  You will notice the much higher number of deaths among the unvaccinated even though over 80% of the country is now fully vaccinated.  While it is difficult if not impossible to make the numbers exact from this data, since the timing of vaccinations is not given, it should be easily seen that the percentage of unvaccinated persons dying is many times the percentage of vaccinated persons dying.  I don't know where the 250,000 number came from, but either way vaccinations greatly decrease your chance of death.  Shouldn't that be the real takeaway?

And even for those who do not care about their own risk of dying, there is evidence that being vaccinated significantly lowers the chance that you will pass on the virus to others if you do get infected.  While I believe fully in someone's ability to make decisions on things that solely affect them, I do not grant them the same autonomy over decisions that can harm others.  One can choose not to be vaccinated if he/she wants, but should not expect the "right" to participate fully in society if they make that choice.    

Case rates don't impress me much. People that get vaccinated are likely to follow other protocols as well so that could be correlation rather than causation.
I would like to know more about the unvaccinated deaths. Why were those people unvaccinated? If they were worried about being vaccinated because of other health issues they would have possibly died even if they were vaccinated. I would also like to know why the vaccinated deaths happened.
These studies are encouraging but you still can't promise the conclusions will not change given more information. So the arrogance towards people that are not as convinced as you are is way out of line.

If there were a 10% higher risk of death for the unvaccinated you may have an argument.  If the risk is 2000% higher for the unvaccinated (as it may very well be) then you don't.  It is almost an impossibility for there to be anything other than vaccination that would produce that kind of number.  Additionally, deaths among the vaccinated may occur, but that does not mean that vaccines are worthless.  My recollection is that they are around 94% effective.  That other 6% is still millions of people, but at least those millions greatly reduced (not eliminated) their risk in the first place.  They may still become infected, and some may still die.  The conclusions are that vaccines are highly effective, not that they are perfect or foolproof.  Those conclusions will not change.  They are proven at this point.   

[tallguy]

Apr 24, 2022 19:05:19 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 24, 2022 17:48:29 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

and how did you fare with polio? oh that's right, you were likely vaccinated against it. back when the general public listened to medical professionals instead of the echo chambers they sought online.

Diseases run their courses. I wasn't vaccinated against the Black Plague and I've never had that either.

First, if there had been vaccines against the Black Plague we may never have heard of it because half of Europe wouldn't have died.  Second, the most likely reason it ended was because of the creation of quarantines.   

[pulmonarymd]

Apr 24, 2022 19:44:35 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Apr 24, 2022 19:22:47 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Case rates don't impress me much. People that get vaccinated are likely to follow other protocols as well so that could be correlation rather than causation.
I would like to know more about the unvaccinated deaths. Why were those people unvaccinated? If they were worried about being vaccinated because of other health issues they would have possibly died even if they were vaccinated. I would also like to know why the vaccinated deaths happened.
These studies are encouraging but you still can't promise the conclusions will not change given more information. So the arrogance towards people that are not as convinced as you are is way out of line.

If there were a 10% higher risk of death for the unvaccinated you may have an argument.  If the risk is 2000% higher for the unvaccinated (as it may very well be) then you don't.  It is almost an impossibility for there to be anything other than vaccination that would produce that kind of number.  Additionally, deaths among the vaccinated may occur, but that does not mean that vaccines are worthless.  My recollection is that they are around 94% effective.  That other 6% is still millions of people, but at least those millions greatly reduced (not eliminated) their risk in the first place.  They may still become infected, and some may still die.  The conclusions are that vaccines are highly effective, not that they are perfect or foolproof.  Those conclusions will not change.  They are proven at this point.   

Correct. Hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated. The statistics and conclusions surrounding this are as robust as any finding in medicine. All the other confounding variables may change the conclusions by a few percent, but the conclusion will not substantially change. She just refuses to accept the truth about the vaccine for whatever absurd reason she is holding on to

[cooper88]

I live in New Mexico. We actually have cases of the plague every year. Sorry for being a little off topic.

[chiver78]

Apr 24, 2022 19:57:26 GMT -5 cooper88 said:

I live in New Mexico. We actually have cases of the plague every year. Sorry for being a little off topic.

don't apologize, you're exactly on topic.

[pulmonarymd]

Apr 24, 2022 19:54:45 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Apr 24, 2022 19:05:19 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Diseases run their courses. I wasn't vaccinated against the Black Plague and I've never had that either.

First, if there had been vaccines against the Black Plague we may never have heard of it because half of Europe wouldn't have died.  Second, the most likely reason it ended was because of the creation of quarantines.   

The Black Plague spreads in a different way. It requires a vector, in this case a louse, which feeds on vermin. No vermin, no louse, no disease. She is trying to throw anything against the wall to see if it sticks, without any concern about the science of her assertion. She just refuses to believe what she doesn’t want to believe

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Apr 24, 2022 19:54:45 GMT -5 tallguy said:

Apr 24, 2022 19:05:19 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Diseases run their courses. I wasn't vaccinated against the Black Plague and I've never had that either.

First, if there had been vaccines against the Black Plague we may never have heard of it because half of Europe wouldn't have died.  Second, the most likely reason it ended was because of the creation of quarantines.   

Actually it's likely it ended precisely because it wiped out most of the known world at the time. Those that survived already had it or had a genetic mutation that can make you less prone.

Interesting side topic that mutation also lowers risk of HIV but would not recommend playing those odds.

The place went away because it killed too many of it's hosts and what was left had herd immunity.

I'd rather not get there with COVID. We have vaccines instead of doing it the hard way.

That and the massive improvements made in sanitation. Not dumping your garbage and shit where you sleep means less rats and the fleas that hitch a ride.

There are at least 3-4 cases of plague in the US every year. Prarie dogs, voles and ferrets all carry it.

Plague can be treated with antibiotics if caught and diagnosed. There are not enough cases to warrant a vaccine when increased sanitation and not poking wild animals works fine.

A better history would be smallpox. Thomas Jefferson hailed the vaccine as one of mankind's greatest invention. You can survive smallpox but it left you horribly disfigured. There is no treat for smallpox. You get it, you pray to whatever God you desire.

I suppose smallpox is a no Brainerd though.

Things like the flu and now COVID become harder to argue in light of modern medicine and up until the last two years every other scare has fizzled out before it could become a full fledged world pandemic.

That's going to result in major cognitive dissonance for A LOT of people and research shows the majority dig in deeper as opposed to questioning.

So how do we figure out how to reach those people? I think it's going to have to be approached like you do people leaving cults which very few people have experience handling.

[tallguy]

Apr 24, 2022 19:59:16 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Apr 24, 2022 19:54:45 GMT -5 tallguy said:

First, if there had been vaccines against the Black Plague we may never have heard of it because half of Europe wouldn't have died.  Second, the most likely reason it ended was because of the creation of quarantines.   

The Black Plague spreads in a different way. It requires a vector, in this case a louse, which feeds on vermin. No vermin, no louse, no disease. She is trying to throw anything against the wall to see if it sticks, without any concern about the science of her assertion. She just refuses to believe what she doesn’t want to believe

I know that there is no real vaccine even now.  When it occurs in somebody it is treated with antibiotics.  It would still be highly lethal if we did not have those.  I was using the idea of a vaccine back then merely to illustrate the point that such a widespread event could have been prevented with modern medicine, as the potential deaths of many millions due to Covid has been with the vaccines today.  

[daisylu]

I don't think I am the same person week-to-week, but there are some ways that I have changed due to the pandemic. I have learned that it is ok to tell people "no" or to not assist them if it is going to be detrimental to myself. In my family (talking parents siblings, kids), I have always been the "fixer". Whenever anyone needed something, it was my job to help them figure it out. This has resulted in a lifetime of putting my own needs on the back burner. I have learned that I do not need to be everything to everyone, but I am still struggling with figuring out who I am outside of that role. 

I also no longer feel the need to "get along" with people. It is okay to not waste my time with people who are not worthy of it. I am becoming much more comfortable with just walking away, from people and situations.

I used to let other people choices get under my skin. Now, I understand that I can not make their choices for them, but I can protect myself from the fallout of their bad choices.


All that to say, I think I am learning to be selfish. 

[Opti]

Apr 24, 2022 19:22:47 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 24, 2022 18:15:19 GMT -5 tallguy said:

covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#rates-by-vaccine-status

This link says that the risk of death is 20 times higher for unvaccinated persons as opposed to fully-vaccinated persons during the time period.  I have read various numbers at different times saying that it was 14 or 17 times higher at that time, although those numbers may not have included boosters.  I hope you do not think that simply updating the numbers qualifies as, "saying something different after more information comes in." 

This link:
www.statista.com/statistics/1257040/number-covid-deaths-canada-by-vaccination-status/

shows the number of deaths in Canada over the recent 15-month period since vaccines began being distributed.  You will notice the much higher number of deaths among the unvaccinated even though over 80% of the country is now fully vaccinated.  While it is difficult if not impossible to make the numbers exact from this data, since the timing of vaccinations is not given, it should be easily seen that the percentage of unvaccinated persons dying is many times the percentage of vaccinated persons dying.  I don't know where the 250,000 number came from, but either way vaccinations greatly decrease your chance of death.  Shouldn't that be the real takeaway?

And even for those who do not care about their own risk of dying, there is evidence that being vaccinated significantly lowers the chance that you will pass on the virus to others if you do get infected.  While I believe fully in someone's ability to make decisions on things that solely affect them, I do not grant them the same autonomy over decisions that can harm others.  One can choose not to be vaccinated if he/she wants, but should not expect the "right" to participate fully in society if they make that choice.    

Case rates don't impress me much. People that get vaccinated are likely to follow other protocols as well so that could be correlation rather than causation.
I would like to know more about the unvaccinated deaths. Why were those people unvaccinated? If they were worried about being vaccinated because of other health issues they would have possibly died even if they were vaccinated. I would also like to know why the vaccinated deaths happened.
These studies are encouraging but you still can't promise the conclusions will not change given more information. So the arrogance towards people that are not as convinced as you are is way out of line.

If I remember correctly, the people who avoided vaccinations for medical reasons predominantly had clotting issues or issues with the vaccine ingredients. All the Covid deaths happened because they had Covid. I think many of the risk factors have been found including not being vaccinated and age over 65, 70 or wherever the line breaks.

What do you expect to be determined now after over 1 million people died in the US and over 6 million have died of Covid worldwide?
 

[minnesotapaintlady]

I have been pondering this thread for quite a while and I really don't think I've changed at all the past couple years.  There are some key events in my life that I can definitely say did, but not covid.  But, to be fair, I was not personally affected much.  Nobody I know died or was hospitalized or was even that sick, had that been the case I might feel differently.  Anti-vaxxers I always thought were stupid, but I think a lot of things people do are stupid.  I have not cut anyone out of my life because of that. Some of the people I know that didn't get the covid shot are also some the most helpful "got your back" people I've ever known and have been there for me at the drop of a hat, but when it comes to vaccines it's a no.  It is what it is.  I won't give up good friendships over a difference in beliefs.  I am more frustrated and upset that it has become so much an us vs. them country. This worries me more than anything.

[laterbloomer]

Infallible Science www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/20-of-the-greatest-blunders-in-science-in-the-last-20-years
And these are just mistakes we know about

[laterbloomer]

Apr 25, 2022 10:34:57 GMT -5 Opti said:

Apr 24, 2022 19:22:47 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Case rates don't impress me much. People that get vaccinated are likely to follow other protocols as well so that could be correlation rather than causation.
I would like to know more about the unvaccinated deaths. Why were those people unvaccinated? If they were worried about being vaccinated because of other health issues they would have possibly died even if they were vaccinated. I would also like to know why the vaccinated deaths happened.
These studies are encouraging but you still can't promise the conclusions will not change given more information. So the arrogance towards people that are not as convinced as you are is way out of line.

If I remember correctly, the people who avoided vaccinations for medical reasons predominantly had clotting issues or issues with the vaccine ingredients. All the Covid deaths happened because they had Covid. I think many of the risk factors have been found including not being vaccinated and age over 65, 70 or wherever the line breaks.

What do you expect to be determined now after over 1 million people died in the US and over 6 million have died of Covid worldwide?
 

I think there is going to be a lot more analysis done and they are going to discover more about who was at risk and who wasn't. 1 million people dying of something in 2 years in the US doesn't seem like that big a number as a percentage. I think we are going to find out things like population density played a huge part in how many people got it and which strains people got. After being told all my life how the scientific method takes time, I believe that we are going to find out a lot of the info being circulated is going to be "corrected". I just don't know which way it's going to go.

[tallguy]

Apr 25, 2022 20:27:50 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Infallible Science www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/20-of-the-greatest-blunders-in-science-in-the-last-20-years
And these are just mistakes we know about

I skimmed your list, and my first impression is that most of these are errors by one or two people that then got blown up into public issues.  They are NOT errors in the consensus of many thousands of scientists, none of whom were working on anything more critical at the time.  To equate those things with vaccine research and response is silly.  So many were working on this that information almost couldn't be falsified, due simply to the number of people who would have seen different results.

I can understand you wanting to back up your opinion with something, but desperation is really a bad look.