How do you find out what your coworker died of when

[haapai]

I didn't find out much today.  The bossman pretty much repeated the same meeting that we had yesterday.  He was more adamant this time that he would not discuss the cause of death or any details surrounding it, again claiming that it was out of respect for privacy.  He didn't slather on the what a great guy the deceased was but he did discuss the fund-raiser and the funeral (it sounds like it will be on Saturday.)  He's calling in some ringers so that folks can attend the funeral. 

I won't be going.  I know better than to attend the funeral of someone that I disliked to get the story behind how he died.  (There's a Frasier episode that comes to mind.)  I can get a report from someone else.  I'm also keeping what I thought of the guy behind my teeth, less out of respect for him, but to avoid demoralizing coworkers.  It's pretty devastating to hear unkind things said of dead coworkers because you instantly fear what will be said of you.  My coworkers do not need that now.

There's no death announcement yet but it is early.  OTOH, I'm surprised that funeral arrangements seem to be known but no blurb has been published by the for-profit thanatologists in the area.  I've been searching. 

Tomorrow I will be working with a competent gossip that I trust.  I may learn more.  In the meanwhile, I'm searching for my vaccine card so that I can get my booster. 

I suspect that my supervisor may have told me about the cause of death without even imagining that it could be controversial or "private" or something that he was not supposed to hear or repeat.  The idea that anyone would try to conceal a COVID death is completely alien to me too.  Wouldn't you at least want to name the devil that did in your loved one?  Wouldn't you want to warn others? 

[Deleted]

Another thought: you CAN ask what your employer's protocol is for COVID-19 and other illnesses which might present a health risk to employees. If the employee or the family hasn't volunteered the reason they're out sick there's not much they can do. But... if an employee calls and says they're home with say, the Zika virus, what do they do to inform employees? What if it's just a family member of the employee but the employee has been asked to quarantine? Wat if the Health Department informs them of a case affecting an employee?

Of course you have to assume they FOLLOW those protocols but it's a start and the questions don't require them to divulge confidential information.

Someone referred earlier to a "witch hunt". It's sad but I can picture the same thing if I were still working in an office. X has been out sick all week and no mention of cause. Could it be COVID? Did I have any meetings with them? Was I in an elevator with them? There's a case of COVID in the company. Who's been out for awhile? Who hasn;t been vaccinated? Who might have gotten it from their kids?

I think we're all having COVID burnout by now.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Nov 15, 2021 14:31:59 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Another thought: you CAN ask what your employer's protocol is for COVID-19 and other illnesses which might present a health risk to employees. If the employee or the family hasn't volunteered the reason they're out sick there's not much they can do. But... if an employee calls and says they're home with say, the Zika virus, what do they do to inform employees? What if it's just a family member of the employee but the employee has been asked to quarantine? Wat if the Health Department informs them of a case affecting an employee?

Of course you have to assume they FOLLOW those protocols but it's a start and the questions don't require them to divulge confidential information.

Someone referred earlier to a "witch hunt". It's sad but I can picture the same thing if I were still working in an office. X has been out sick all week and no mention of cause. Could it be COVID? Did I have any meetings with them? Was I in an elevator with them? There's a case of COVID in the company. Who's been out for awhile? Who hasn;t been vaccinated? Who might have gotten it from their kids?

I think we're all having COVID burnout by now.

That was me and that's one of the few things I think the company has handled properly.  Nobody should feel pressure to show up to work or not take vacation because coworkers are going to bring out the pitch forks.  If I have a follow up for a medical concern I should not have to divulge that to my coworkers for their peace of mind.  It's none of their business.

If this had happened in the window where he may have been contagious I would still STRONGLY disagree with digging for someone's death record but I could see the anxiety and asking the company about it.  What they would likely say is if it was a concern they would have spoken to the relevant parties.   

And they told people not to be spreading rumors either that could be met with disciplinary action.  While I doubt this level of snooping would occur to them protecting privacy, even if it was to cover their own ass legally, was the motivation.

My question is what exactly is this "gotcha" moment going to solve because let's say he did die of COVID.  Will the company be fined?  Shut down?  Will the OP use this to quit her job?  Does she imagine she will strong arm t hem into complying if she hasn't been able to already?   What is the end goal here of going to this extreme?

How are you going to Sherlock Holmes this into proof that not only did he expose you but the company lied about exposing you?

If you really think you have a case go to OSHA and your public health office.  That's what they are for.  You can remain anoymous in both cases and no they are not going to demand you trot in a death certificate for your coworker before they will launch one.   Nothing may come of it  but that is a FAR more productive use of time/energy and far more likely to result in the desired outcome.

And then yes look for another job.  WTF would you WANT to stay working for a company that even has you considering this type of behavior?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Nov 15, 2021 14:31:30 GMT -5 haapai said:

I didn't find out much today.  The bossman pretty much repeated the same meeting that we had yesterday.  He was more adamant this time that he would not discuss the cause of death or any details surrounding it, again claiming that it was out of respect for privacy.  He didn't slather on the what a great guy the deceased was but he did discuss the fund-raiser and the funeral (it sounds like it will be on Saturday.)  He's calling in some ringers so that folks can attend the funeral. 

I won't be going.  I know better than to attend the funeral of someone that I disliked to get the story behind how he died.  (There's a Frasier episode that comes to mind.)  I can get a report from someone else.  I'm also keeping what I thought of the guy behind my teeth, less out of respect for him, but to avoid demoralizing coworkers.  It's pretty devastating to hear unkind things said of dead coworkers because you instantly fear what will be said of you.  My coworkers do not need that now.

There's no death announcement yet but it is early.  OTOH, I'm surprised that funeral arrangements seem to be known but no blurb has been published by the for-profit thanatologists in the area.  I've been searching. 

Tomorrow I will be working with a competent gossip that I trust.  I may learn more.  In the meanwhile, I'm searching for my vaccine card so that I can get my booster. 

I suspect that my supervisor may have told me about the cause of death without even imagining that it could be controversial or "private" or something that he was not supposed to hear or repeat.  The idea that anyone would try to conceal a COVID death is completely alien to me too.  Wouldn't you at least want to name the devil that did in your loved one?  Wouldn't you want to warn others? 

Cause MAYBE, just MAYBE your rumor machine is just that.   There are a lot of people who do not disclose the cause of death.  Suicide is one that comes to mind off the top of my head. Pretty sure that is something a company doesn't want people discussing around the water cooler.   The family does not owe you an explanation or to make it public to soothe your paranoia.

[haapai]

I tried really hard and succeeded in not figuring out who was on Covid exposure leave or in isolation.  I scrupulously ignored unscheduled absences and did not ask questions. 

My boss had it and I didn't find out until she mentioned it months later.  I don't miss that boss much.  She talked too much but never to me, which was probably a good thing. 

[minnesotapaintlady]

Nov 15, 2021 14:43:47 GMT -5 haapai said:

I tried really hard and succeeded in not figuring out who was on Covid exposure leave or in isolation.  I scrupulously ignored unscheduled absences and did not ask questions. 

My boss had it and I didn't find out until she mentioned it months later.  I don't miss that boss much.  She talked too much but never to me, which was probably a good thing. 

So why is this one so much different?  Why the obsession of finding out the details for this particular person? 

[haapai]

Because he is dead.  I want to know why it is him and not me.  Didn't you catch that Frasier episode?  It was in reruns for dogs ages. 

[raeoflyte]

Nov 15, 2021 14:53:40 GMT -5 haapai said:

Because he is dead.  I want to know why it is him and not me.  Didn't you catch that Frasier episode?  It was in reruns for dogs ages. 

If that's all then would you want to know his vaccination status assuming it was covid?

Death is a hard thing, even when it's someone we don't like. But this statement seems to contradict the rest of what you say you want from this.

[pulmonarymd]

There is no rhyme or reason as to why one person dies from COVID and someone else thinks its a cold. People I thought would be dead sailed through, and some got really ill when no one thought it would happen. Knowing what he died from doesn't change that. I cannot tell you why some people defy the odds. We have all kinds of prediction models. They are helpful, but if something is 1/100 chance, someone is that 1.

[haapai]

Nov 15, 2021 15:03:25 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Nov 15, 2021 14:53:40 GMT -5 haapai said:

Because he is dead.  I want to know why it is him and not me.  Didn't you catch that Frasier episode?  It was in reruns for dogs ages. 

If that's all then would you want to know his vaccination status assuming it was covid?

Death is a hard thing, even when it's someone we don't like. But this statement seems to contradict the rest of what you say you want from this.

Yes, I desperately want to know if he was vaxxed, and possibly when.  I also realize that, that information is both private and almost impossible to obtain or verify.  So I am not pursuing it.  I'm pretty comfortable now telling myself that the odds are 12 to 1 that he was unvaxxed and that if his was a breakthrough case, there would be no reason for his family (but not his employer) to hide a Covid-related death. 

[andi9899]

Nov 15, 2021 14:31:30 GMT -5 haapai said:

I didn't find out much today.  The bossman pretty much repeated the same meeting that we had yesterday.  He was more adamant this time that he would not discuss the cause of death or any details surrounding it, again claiming that it was out of respect for privacy.  He didn't slather on the what a great guy the deceased was but he did discuss the fund-raiser and the funeral (it sounds like it will be on Saturday.)  He's calling in some ringers so that folks can attend the funeral. 

I won't be going.  I know better than to attend the funeral of someone that I disliked to get the story behind how he died.  (There's a Frasier episode that comes to mind.)  I can get a report from someone else.  I'm also keeping what I thought of the guy behind my teeth, less out of respect for him, but to avoid demoralizing coworkers.  It's pretty devastating to hear unkind things said of dead coworkers because you instantly fear what will be said of you.  My coworkers do not need that now.

There's no death announcement yet but it is early.  OTOH, I'm surprised that funeral arrangements seem to be known but no blurb has been published by the for-profit thanatologists in the area.  I've been searching. 

Tomorrow I will be working with a competent gossip that I trust.  I may learn more.  In the meanwhile, I'm searching for my vaccine card so that I can get my booster. 

I suspect that my supervisor may have told me about the cause of death without even imagining that it could be controversial or "private" or something that he was not supposed to hear or repeat.  The idea that anyone would try to conceal a COVID death is completely alien to me too.  Wouldn't you at least want to name the devil that did in your loved one?  Wouldn't you want to warn others? 

If you are fully vaccinated why are you still obsessing over this? Do you not have anything else to do? Go get your booster and get over it.

[minnesotapaintlady]

Nov 15, 2021 15:05:57 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

There is no rhyme or reason as to why one person dies from COVID and someone else thinks its a cold. People I thought would be dead sailed through, and some got really ill when no one thought it would happen. Knowing what he died from doesn't change that. I cannot tell you why some people defy the odds. We have all kinds of prediction models. They are helpful, but if something is 1/100 chance, someone is that 1.

I work with a woman that since this all started we've been saying if she gets covid she's a goner.  She has COPD, rheumatoid arthritis and is morbidly obese. She has been coughing up her lungs back in her cube for a decade or more and starts wheezing horribly just walking down the hallway.

A couple months ago the email came out that someone in our block of cubes had covid and the appropriate folks had been notified and quarantined if applicable.  It didn't take long to figure out that she was the one that was sick and I honestly didn't think she would ever be coming back, but darned if she didn't show up as soon as her 10 days were up no worse for wear. 

[andi9899]

Nov 15, 2021 14:53:40 GMT -5 haapai said:

Because he is dead.  I want to know why it is him and not me.  Didn't you catch that Frasier episode?  It was in reruns for dogs ages. 

You said previously that you didn't care for this person. You seem rather obsessed for someone who doesn't care.

[Opti]

Nov 15, 2021 14:53:40 GMT -5 haapai said:

Because he is dead.  I want to know why it is him and not me.  Didn't you catch that Frasier episode?  It was in reruns for dogs ages. 

You will never ever know this. You don't even know if he had Covid and was contagious while you were working with him. Without knowing that, wondering why it wasn't you seems pointless.

Since its now 2021, more than a few people have caught Covid from their kids or their loved ones instead of their workplace. 

I reread and found you did not get Covid from him. He probably did not catch Covid at work, if indeed that's what he had. 

[pulmonarymd]

Nov 15, 2021 15:42:54 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Nov 15, 2021 15:05:57 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

There is no rhyme or reason as to why one person dies from COVID and someone else thinks its a cold. People I thought would be dead sailed through, and some got really ill when no one thought it would happen. Knowing what he died from doesn't change that. I cannot tell you why some people defy the odds. We have all kinds of prediction models. They are helpful, but if something is 1/100 chance, someone is that 1.

I work with a woman that since this all started we've been saying if she gets covid she's a goner.  She has COPD, rheumatoid arthritis and is morbidly obese. She has been coughing up her lungs back in her cube for a decade or more and starts wheezing horribly just walking down the hallway.

A couple months ago the email came out that someone in our block of cubes had covid and the appropriate folks had been notified and quarantined if applicable.  It didn't take long to figure out that she was the one that was sick and I honestly didn't think she would ever be coming back, but darned if she didn't show up as soon as her 10 days were up no worse for wear. 

We have seen that more than once. If she was sick enough to be hospitalized, she would have had a high risk of dying, but many of them did not get very ill. Still a mystery as to why it happens this way. Yet we had a 40 yo and a 36 yo sick enough to spend weeks in the ICU. Part of what keeps it interesting

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Nov 15, 2021 14:53:40 GMT -5 haapai said:

Because he is dead.  I want to know why it is him and not me.  Didn't you catch that Frasier episode?  It was in reruns for dogs ages. 

Luck?  Because he didn't die of COVID he died of something completely unrelated to you?  Because God said so?

There is no rhyme or reason why people die and some don't.  There are risk factors that up your odds of dying yes but then there are quite a few of those people who walk out the door no worse for wear.  Then there are people who drop dead who were otherwise in perfect health.

Gossip and trying to obtain someone's private information tells you absolutely nothing.  The only way you will ever find out "why" is when you eventually go to meet the Maker and can ask him yourself.

You may want to consider talking to someone about your level of fear/paranoia about COVID.  It is one thing to be nervous, concerned or burnt out.  Everyone is at this point.

It's another to be considering this and to be arguing your position is justified despite pretty much an entire thread telling you otherwise. It suggests you have moved beyond COVID burn out and into something that needs guidance to get over.

ETA: And for the record I am an essential employee and I KNOW my employer has not handled COVID very well because I got caught up in it.  I'm still pissed off about it and I am pissed off at how many anti-vaxxers there are here.  However I would still NEVER consider invading someone's privacy like this.  If I am really that unhappy with the BS here I would leave.  It's not the dead person's fault my company sucks.  I am not OSHA, I am not public health.  It is not my place to try to spin a "gotcha" moment on this company.

[haapai]

Nov 15, 2021 15:54:39 GMT -5 Opti said:

Nov 15, 2021 15:27:23 GMT -5 haapai said:

Yes, I desperately want to know if he was vaxxed, and possibly when.  I also realize that, that information is both private and almost impossible to obtain or verify.  So I am not pursuing it.  I'm pretty comfortable now telling myself that the odds are 12 to 1 that he was unvaxxed and that if his was a breakthrough case, there would be no reason for his family (but not his employer) to hide a Covid-related death. 

Did you catch Covid just before he stopped being at work? 

Nope.  to the best of my knowledge, I have never had Covid. 

I don't know what string you are pulling on. 

I've respected this guy's privacy when I am damn certain that others have not.  I'm not claiming that this guy ever did anything that endangered me or that my employer has failed to follow the rules that they are supposed to have followed.  I'm not out to expose or sue my employer. 

I want something else, answers to why he is gone and some perspective on what my own occupational risks might be.  And it seems that if I ask those questions, I'm flighty, or sneaky, or nosy, or litigious, or scaring folks, or spreading rumors, or just out of my lane. 

It's damn frustrating.  And stop telling me to find another job.  My job might suck, the people that I work with might be behaving badly, but what you are asking is for me to take a job that pays less than 75% of what I make now, possibly much less, and hope that it will be better.  I might just be better off with the devil that I know. 

[andi9899]

Nov 15, 2021 16:13:45 GMT -5 haapai said:

Nov 15, 2021 15:54:39 GMT -5 Opti said:

Did you catch Covid just before he stopped being at work? 

Nope.  to the best of my knowledge, I have never had Covid. 

I don't know what string you are pulling on. 

I've respected this guy's privacy when I am damn certain that others have not.  I'm not claiming that this guy ever did anything that endangered me or that my employer has failed to follow the rules that they are supposed to have followed.  I'm not out to expose or sue my employer. 

I want something else, answers to why he is gone and some perspective on what my own occupational risks might be.  And it seems that if I ask those questions, I'm flighty, or sneaky, or nosy, or litigious, or scaring folks, or spreading rumors, or just out of my lane. 

It's damn frustrating.  And stop telling me to find another job.  My job might suck, the people that I work with might be behaving badly, but what you are asking is for me to take a job that pays less than 75% of what I make now, possibly much less, and hope that it will be better.  I might just be better off with the devil that I know. 

How can you say you're respecting his privacy and also be actively trying to get his health information. You've even talked about trying to get a copy of his death certificate.

And you have been saying this whole thread that you think your employer has concealed information from you. Why would you want to work there then? It can't be salary, my kids make more than $16/hour. There are plenty of better paying jobs if you look.

I'm with Drama, I think you need to talk to someone about this obsession of yours.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Nov 15, 2021 16:13:45 GMT -5 haapai said:

Nov 15, 2021 15:54:39 GMT -5 Opti said:

Did you catch Covid just before he stopped being at work? 

Nope.  to the best of my knowledge, I have never had Covid. 

I don't know what string you are pulling on. 

I've respected this guy's privacy when I am damn certain that others have not.  I'm not claiming that this guy ever did anything that endangered me or that my employer has failed to follow the rules that they are supposed to have followed.  I'm not out to expose or sue my employer. 

I want something else, answers to why he is gone and some perspective on what my own occupational risks might be.  And it seems that if I ask those questions, I'm flighty, or sneaky, or nosy, or litigious, or scaring folks, or spreading rumors, or just out of my lane. 

It's damn frustrating.  And stop telling me to find another job.  My job might suck, the people that I work with might be behaving badly, but what you are asking is for me to take a job that pays less than 75% of what I make now, possibly much less, and hope that it will be better.  I might just be better off with the devil that I know. 

So if you are not going to leave and you aren't going to try to use the information to affect change then WHY do you need it?   You are already well aware of your occupational risks at this point, you work in a grocery store. You've known since the day all us essential employees got a letter stating we were to be sacrificed to the capitalist gods.  What could knowing the cause of his death possibly gain you that you didn't already know going back to March 2020?

You are already convinced your employer isn't doing enough.  Would knowing his death certificate listed something else somehow change that?  You're beyond paranoid at this point, what if someone else goes out sick or dies?  The cycle is going to start all over again because while it wasn't this employee maybe the NEXT one is a big cover-up.  Who knows.  People die all the time. Are you going to demand information on everyone's sick time too just to make sure they aren't lying to you?

Continue to mask up, get your booster and move on with life.   

[minnesotapaintlady]

You're not going to get any answers to the universe from his death certificate.  Sometimes life is just really unfair.

[pulmonarymd]

Nov 15, 2021 16:13:45 GMT -5 haapai said:

Nov 15, 2021 15:54:39 GMT -5 Opti said:

Did you catch Covid just before he stopped being at work? 

Nope.  to the best of my knowledge, I have never had Covid. 

I don't know what string you are pulling on. 

I've respected this guy's privacy when I am damn certain that others have not.  I'm not claiming that this guy ever did anything that endangered me or that my employer has failed to follow the rules that they are supposed to have followed.  I'm not out to expose or sue my employer. 

I want something else, answers to why he is gone and some perspective on what my own occupational risks might be.  And it seems that if I ask those questions, I'm flighty, or sneaky, or nosy, or litigious, or scaring folks, or spreading rumors, or just out of my lane. 

It's damn frustrating.  And stop telling me to find another job.  My job might suck, the people that I work with might be behaving badly, but what you are asking is for me to take a job that pays less than 75% of what I make now, possibly much less, and hope that it will be better.  I might just be better off with the devil that I know. 

He's gone because God wanted it, he didn't believe in God, God has a sense of humor, fate, bad luck, the universe, phase of the moon, or any combination of the above. I deal with death all the time. It makes no sense. People live and die for reasons that are not comprehensible to us. I treat all sepsis patients the same way, and according to guidelines. Some live, some die. I cannot tell you who they will be beforehand, and many times have no answer after the fact. That is how medicine is. We also do not know all the risk factors for contracting COVID, or why someone who gets it gets severely ill. You are grasping at straws. It id time to let it go.

[laterbloomer]

Nov 14, 2021 21:06:57 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Nov 14, 2021 21:01:09 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Where to start...
it's not a moot point if a company is conducting business in a way that puts their employees at risk...
I'm on the fence about vaccination statuses...
I'm not sure why it needs to be repeated but one person's right to privacy does not usurp another person's right to make informed health decisions for themselves.

Now you are being hypocritical. Vaccination status is clearly important to know. You have no right to expose me to a potentially fatal disease. If she can invade his privacy why can’t I invade yours, which is more important since he is dead.

Morally, the company should keep their workers safe. Good luck with that

I'm fully vaccinated and I don't care who knows it. I'm on the fence about whether or not to force other people to disclose their status. To me there is a difference in having to disclose that you have definitely exposed someone to a potentially deadly disease and whether you took steps to avoid getting said disease.
And the fact that it is hard to make companies behave morally is not a reason to condemn her for trying.

[giramomma]

Nov 15, 2021 14:31:30 GMT -5 haapai said:

There's no death announcement yet but it is early.  OTOH, I'm surprised that funeral arrangements seem to be known but no blurb has been published by the for-profit thanatologists in the area.  I've been searching. 

I suspect that my supervisor may have told me about the cause of death without even imagining that it could be controversial or "private" or something that he was not supposed to hear or repeat.  The idea that anyone would try to conceal a COVID death is completely alien to me too.  Wouldn't you at least want to name the devil that did in your loved one?  Wouldn't you want to warn others? 

Maybe the family wants a death announcement run at a certain time? My Dad died in January. My mom wanted the announcement to go out around valentine's day.

Do you know how expensive those things are? Mom paid like $400 for a couple of paragraphs. 150 words, to be exact. What if it's just  "Joe Schmoe died."  because that's the cheapest thing to do?

I would also assume that 18 months into a pandemic, folks don't need to be "educated" about the negative outcomes of Covid anymore. If 775K thousand deaths in 18 months isn't enough to sway someone, I find it hard to believing that one death is.

[Tiny]

Another thing to keep in mind is how Covid19 spreads:

Common question How does COVID-19 spread?

• The main way the virus spreads is from person-to-person through respiratory droplets when people cough, sneeze, or talk.

• You may also be able to get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it, and then touching your mouth, nose, or eyes.

• The virus may be spread by people who are not experiencing symptoms.

You need to spend time with someone who is infected. Breathing their expelled air. Masks help keep one's expelled air from traveling very far. Masks may help you NOT inhale other people's expelled air.
I'm pretty sure in public places the odds are really low for catching Covid19 from walking past someone infected or from walking thru a room/area they were in. The CDC guidelines are you need 15 total minutes of exposure to a person with Covid19 to count as it having been "personal contact".

I think the size of the area and the ventilation plays a part when you have to spend time in an area with someone with Covid19 nearby...

Think about how TB spreads.... or Measles... it's a little like those.

When I'm at the office I rarely spend much time with my co-workers - even in  our "cube farm".   We have tall cube walls and large cube spaces.     When I am in the office - I'm mostly concerned about limiting when I go to a conference room or into someone's office for a meeting.      AT work - it's all about where the ventiliation system is pushing and pulling the air.  I'm hoping I'm upwind of anyone who MIGHT be sick.   

[laterbloomer]

Nov 14, 2021 21:09:25 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Nov 14, 2021 20:55:21 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

This is the kind of thinking that has corporations thinking that it is cheaper to conduct business in ways that are unsafe for customers or employees because it is cheaper to payout when someone gets hurt than to do business in a safe manner. It was wrong for the business not to inform her whether or not she ended up getting sick. It's not ok just because she didn't get sick and she is entitled to find out if the company did that to her.

So how is she going to prove the company "did something to her?". He was out weeks he could have very well been ill with something else and contracted Covid without ever stepping foot in the store again.

If you lost a loved one would you appreciate them demanding you owe them an answer? How would you feel if complete strangers were trying to obtain their death certificate?

If her company is as shitty as she claims report them and quit. Do not stalk a dead man trying to confirm something that is currently only a rumor.

He's dead. Nothing changes. All digging does is satisfy some morbid curiosity. It holds no one accountable and if you're going to keep working there WTF is the point?

If I lost a loved one to Covid I would totally understand people that had been in contact with them wanting to know. If it wasn't Covid I would understand people wanting to know that too. If it wasn't Covid there is no need to say what it was, that could be an invasion of privacy.

Out of curiosity, why would someone care about people knowing what they died of. Not criticizing, I just can't imagine caring about that.

[giramomma]

Nov 15, 2021 16:13:45 GMT -5 haapai said:

I want something else, answers to why he is gone and some perspective on what my own occupational risks might be.  And it seems that if I ask those questions, I'm flighty, or sneaky, or nosy, or litigious, or scaring folks, or spreading rumors, or just out of my lane. 

It's damn frustrating.  And stop telling me to find another job.  My job might suck, the people that I work with might be behaving badly, but what you are asking is for me to take a job that pays less than 75% of what I make now, possibly much less, and hope that it will be better.  I might just be better off with the devil that I know. 

Has anyone done studies on occupational risks of Covid? That's where I would start.

My son has worked in a grocery store in the pandemic. Not once have I worried about the risks. And I was (maybe am still) immunocompromised.

It's great that you are making the choice to stay where you are. Lord knows I do that, too, stick with the devil you know when it comes to jobs. But, then you have to let this go if your decision is to stay.

Here are some articles on occupational risks:

Yahoo article

Another Article

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[laterbloomer]

Nov 15, 2021 16:13:45 GMT -5 haapai said:

Nov 15, 2021 15:54:39 GMT -5 Opti said:

Did you catch Covid just before he stopped being at work? 

Nope.  to the best of my knowledge, I have never had Covid. 

I don't know what string you are pulling on. 

I've respected this guy's privacy when I am damn certain that others have not.  I'm not claiming that this guy ever did anything that endangered me or that my employer has failed to follow the rules that they are supposed to have followed.  I'm not out to expose or sue my employer. 

I want something else, answers to why he is gone and some perspective on what my own occupational risks might be.  And it seems that if I ask those questions, I'm flighty, or sneaky, or nosy, or litigious, or scaring folks, or spreading rumors, or just out of my lane. 

It's damn frustrating.  And stop telling me to find another job.  My job might suck, the people that I work with might be behaving badly, but what you are asking is for me to take a job that pays less than 75% of what I make now, possibly much less, and hope that it will be better.  I might just be better off with the devil that I know. 

I only support you knowing if he had Covid or not. You're on your own for the existential angst stuff.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Nov 15, 2021 17:24:24 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Nov 14, 2021 21:09:25 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

So how is she going to prove the company "did something to her?". He was out weeks he could have very well been ill with something else and contracted Covid without ever stepping foot in the store again.

If you lost a loved one would you appreciate them demanding you owe them an answer? How would you feel if complete strangers were trying to obtain their death certificate?

If her company is as shitty as she claims report them and quit. Do not stalk a dead man trying to confirm something that is currently only a rumor.

He's dead. Nothing changes. All digging does is satisfy some morbid curiosity. It holds no one accountable and if you're going to keep working there WTF is the point?

If I lost a loved one to Covid I would totally understand people that had been in contact with them wanting to know. If it wasn't Covid I would understand people wanting to know that too. If it wasn't Covid there is no need to say what it was, that could be an invasion of privacy.

Out of curiosity, why would someone care about people knowing what they died of. Not criticizing, I just can't imagine caring about that.

I'm pretty sure a friend of mine committed suicide. Obit said closed casket immediate family only wake and funeral.

When I asked my mom she said when no death is disclosed it is likely something the family doesn't want to be asked questions about.

So I respect that. If it isn't my immediate family why do I need to know? Maybe they are aware of his nosy coworkers. Maybe they don't want to be grilled about his "real" cause of death by paranoid strangers


Maybe they have Trumper family who will make a scene. Maybe he died from something or in a way that is too painful for them to discuss.

It's not my right to know. It's their right to say who gets to know.

If he had COVID if he expects someone they were probably told. If not you can't prove the company lied or covered up anything. He may very well have died before anyone could be notified and since it's well past exposure and the OP admits she was never sick why the paranoia?

[Opti]

Nov 15, 2021 16:13:45 GMT -5 haapai said:

Nov 15, 2021 15:54:39 GMT -5 Opti said:

Did you catch Covid just before he stopped being at work? 

Nope.  to the best of my knowledge, I have never had Covid. 

I don't know what string you are pulling on. 

I've respected this guy's privacy when I am damn certain that others have not.  I'm not claiming that this guy ever did anything that endangered me or that my employer has failed to follow the rules that they are supposed to have followed.  I'm not out to expose or sue my employer. 

I want something else, answers to why he is gone and some perspective on what my own occupational risks might be.  And it seems that if I ask those questions, I'm flighty, or sneaky, or nosy, or litigious, or scaring folks, or spreading rumors, or just out of my lane. 

It's damn frustrating.  And stop telling me to find another job.  My job might suck, the people that I work with might be behaving badly, but what you are asking is for me to take a job that pays less than 75% of what I make now, possibly much less, and hope that it will be better.  I might just be better off with the devil that I know. 

You and me both. I don't understand your obsession with his cause of death especially since you do not even know if he had Covid while he was working. Your occupational risks are what they were before he died. 

I've had coworkers die of Covid. I've had even more who had Covid and recovered. Some went out on leave due to exposure in their personal lives and weren't even positive when they went out. If you are really concerned, ask about policies for the future. Treat everyone as a possible carrier of Covid if you want to be very safe. Does your workplace do daily screening?

[pulmonarymd]

Nov 15, 2021 17:16:37 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Nov 14, 2021 21:06:57 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Now you are being hypocritical. Vaccination status is clearly important to know. You have no right to expose me to a potentially fatal disease. If she can invade his privacy why can’t I invade yours, which is more important since he is dead.

Morally, the company should keep their workers safe. Good luck with that

I'm fully vaccinated and I don't care who knows it. I'm on the fence about whether or not to force other people to disclose their status. To me there is a difference in having to disclose that you have definitely exposed someone to a potentially deadly disease and whether you took steps to avoid getting said disease.
And the fact that it is hard to make companies behave morally is not a reason to condemn her for trying.

Your vaccination status sure does affect me. I do not willingly spend time with anyone who is unvaccinated except at work, where I can control mask wearing. Knowing you are unvaccinated allows me to make that decision. We are in the middle of a pandemic. Haven't we seen en ough of people acting irresponsibly an prolonging this.

She has very little chance of making her company act responsibly. If she is that concerned, she should notify OSHA, as has been pointed out multiple times. They can investigate and fine the company as they see fit. Nobody can make another act morally. There can only be consequences for immoral behavior.