How do you find out what your coworker died of when

[haapai]

your boss doesn't want to talk about how the person died?

And maybe the family doesn't want to talk about it either? 

I'm a bit rattled.  The coworker in question worked in my department and on my shift.  When I arrived at work today, my manager asked me if I had heard about X, who has been on medical leave for weeks.  (I'd never nosed around for information regarding why he was absent because I knew that my managers had no business telling me anything.  A few days ago, a get-well card was circulated, and when I asked what was wrong with him and was only told that he was "very sick".}  I answered that I had not and was informed that the coworker had died of complications of COVID. 

A more formal announcement of the death followed.  Everyone in the building was summoned to an informal meeting and the death was announced.  To his credit, the big cheese doing the news-breaking was candid about not wanting to talk about the cause of death while promising to keep us informed of funeral announcements et al.  Then he droned on about what a great guy the deceased was. 

It doesn't help a bit that I thought that the deceased was an angry jerk.  Anyone listening to that announcement of a death could be forgiven for thinking that someone that they had never met had committed suicide.  The vagueness and evasiveness was exactly the same as what you hear when the cause of death is suicide. 

Yes, that obvious quip has already occurred to me.   Twelve to one odds. 

I walked away from the gathering a bit angry.  Did someone that I worked side by side with for two hours a day three days a week test positive for Covid and I was never popped for exposure because I mask?  Had the coworker had a bout of Covid months ago (back when we were informed when someone in the store had tested positive) or had he tested positive after the state's state of emergency had ended and it was no longer necessary to make an announcement that a coworker had tested positive?  Had I just missed the announcement that someone in the store had swabbed positive because the announcements are only made on two consecutive days?  Was this a nosocomial case acquired when my coworker sought treatment for something else? 

I'm really confused now because I'm uncertain what I have a right to know or how to find answers or clues of any sort.  Did my employer just refuse to acknowledge that a coworker died of Covid?  Did they refuse to say so (publicly at least) out of sheer opportunism or is there a legitimate medical privacy angle here?  Is not gossiping biting me on the ass?  Was my manager even telling the truth when he told me privately that the cause of death was "complications of Covid"? 

Of course I will be looking for an obituary or death notice and asking a few trusted folks who are more skilled gossips than myself what they can tell me, but what do I do if there is no death notice, or if it does not mention Covid?   At this point, all that I want to know is whether Covid contributed to his death so that I can evaluate how weaselly my bosses are.  I don't really need to know when he got sick, if he was vaxxed, or if he had underlying conditions that made Covid more dangerous for him or the jabs less effective. 

Mostly, I want to know whether my managers are weasels. 

[Tennesseer]

Nov 14, 2021 12:47:12 GMT -5 haapai said:

your boss doesn't want to talk about how the person died?

And maybe the family doesn't want to talk about it either? 

I'm a bit rattled.  The coworker in question worked in my department and on my shift.  When I arrived at work today, my manager asked me if I had heard about X, who has been on medical leave for weeks.  (I'd never nosed around for information regarding why he was absent because I knew that my managers had no business telling me anything.  A few days ago, a get-well card was circulated, and when I asked what was wrong with him and was only told that he was "very sick".}  I answered that I had not and was informed that the coworker had died of complications of COVID. 

A more formal announcement of the death followed.  Everyone in the building was summoned to an informal meeting and the death was announced.  To his credit, the big cheese doing the news-breaking was candid about not wanting to talk about the cause of death while promising to keep us informed of funeral announcements et al.  Then he droned on about what a great guy the deceased was. 

It doesn't help a bit that I thought that the deceased was an angry jerk.  Anyone listening to that announcement of a death could be forgiven for thinking that someone that they had never met had committed suicide.  The vagueness and evasiveness was exactly the same as what you hear when the cause of death is suicide. 

Yes, that obvious quip has already occurred to me.   Twelve to one odds. 

I walked away from the gathering a bit angry.  Did someone that I worked side by side with for two hours a day three days a week test positive for Covid and I was never popped for exposure because I mask?  Had the coworker had a bout of Covid months ago (back when we were informed when someone in the store had tested positive) or had he tested positive after the state's state of emergency had ended and it was no longer necessary to make an announcement that a coworker had tested positive?  Had I just missed the announcement that someone in the store had swabbed positive because the announcements are only made on two consecutive days?  Was this a nosocomial case acquired when my coworker sought treatment for something else? 

I'm really confused now because I'm uncertain what I have a right to know or how to find answers or clues of any sort.  Did my employer just refuse to acknowledge that a coworker died of Covid?  Did they refuse to say so (publicly at least) out of sheer opportunism or is there a legitimate medical privacy angle here?  Is not gossiping biting me on the ass?  Was my manager even telling the truth when he told me privately that the cause of death was "complications of Covid"? 

Of course I will be looking for an obituary or death notice and asking a few trusted folks who are more skilled gossips than myself what they can tell me, but what do I do if there is no death notice, or if it does not mention Covid?   At this point, all that I want to know is whether Covid contributed to his death so that I can evaluate how weaselly my bosses are.  I don't really need to know when he got sick, if he was vaxxed, or if he had underlying conditions that made Covid more dangerous for him or the jabs less effective. 

Mostly, I want to know whether my managers are weasels. 

Reading his published obituary may give you a clue to cause of death. The obit may list cause of death too especially if he was on the younger side. Will the obit state instead of flowers donate to a certain medical organization? If you go to the visitation or funeral you may overhear attendees talking about the cause of death.

[happyhoix]

Your bosses aren’t telling you because that would be a HIPPA violation. When Covid started, my company would announce when someone tested positive in a particular area, and also would bring exposed coworkers in ( anyone who had been near the person for 15 minutes or more- and every one was wearing masks). There were complaints, however, because if they announced someone from the art department had tested positive and there’s only 3 people in the art department, and two were still at work, it’s easy to figure out who had Covid. Now they only pull in people who could have been exposed and tell them privately.

Another possibility is that the family may be denying it was Covid related and the might sue if his coworkers refer to him as a Covid death. Where I live people will claim a person died from pneumonia or from a blood clot, failing to mention the person had Covid which led to the condition.

Can you ask HR what your Covid policy is? Maybe they only tell people they think might have been within six feet of him for at least 15 minutes during the period he was contagious?

[minnesotapaintlady]

Even if he did die of covid that doesn't mean your employer put you at risk.  You said he's been out for weeks.  He could have been quarantining after an exposure and came down with it during that time. 

[pulmonarymd]

Nov 14, 2021 13:11:55 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Your bosses aren’t telling you because that would be a HIPPA violation. When Covid started, my company would announce when someone tested positive in a particular area, and also would bring exposed coworkers in ( anyone who had been near the person for 15 minutes or more- and every one was wearing masks). There were complaints, however, because if they announced someone from the art department had tested positive and there’s only 3 people in the art department, and two were still at work, it’s easy to figure out who had Covid. Now they only pull in people who could have been exposed and tell them privately.

Another possibility is that the family may be denying it was Covid related and the might sue if his coworkers refer to him as a Covid death. Where I live people will claim a person died from pneumonia or from a blood clot, failing to mention the person had Covid which led to the condition.

Can you ask HR what your Covid policy is? Maybe they only tell people they think might have been within six feet of him for at least 15 minutes during the period he was contagious?

It’s not a HIPAA violation. The company is not a covered healthcare entity. It only applies to healthcare and healthcare adjacent entities. Now, of they knew as a result of insurance claims or the like the company that let the info out would bring trouble

[pulmonarymd]

Death certificates are public documents. Now it maybe fictional, but that is another issue

[TheOtherMe]

If the family doesn't want people to know, it's none of your business.  It may or may not be in an obituary.  

I don't think any of us have a right to know what another person died from.  

If you decide to go the death certificate route, at least wait until the ink is dry.  They are not issued immediately around here.


I had a co-worker die years ago and we assumed it was HIV/Aids.  We will never know for sure but that is what the gossip mill said

[haapai]

Nov 14, 2021 14:14:34 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Death certificates are public documents. Now it maybe fictional, but that is another issue

Thank-you.  Now how do I search for his death certificate?  I'm not a relative and I do not want a copy.  Can I find the official fiction without petitioning for it or paying for it?  Are there totally public and free places that I can search for the story? 

I feel so pathetic asking for how to find a public document that may be fictional, but if it mentions Covid, that part probably isn't made up. 

[andi9899]

How about just minding your business.

[haapai]

Nov 14, 2021 14:24:39 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

If the family doesn't want people to know, it's none of your business.  It may or may not be in an obituary.  

I don't think any of us have a right to know what another person died from.  

If you decide to go the death certificate route, at least wait until the ink is dry.  They are not issued immediately around here.


I had a co-worker die years ago and we assumed it was HIV/Aids.  We will never know for sure but that is what the gossip mill said

You could try googling it.  What was radioactive back in 1984, and increasingly less so later, has often become common knowledge.  Sometimes the tricky bit is the name of who you used to know.  That and when they died.  If they died prior to 1995, the search can be unrewarding, especially if you have no family names to follow or the family name is common.  OTOH, if the person or the name is uncommon and your google-fu is not pathetic, you can stumble across confirmation of what seemed wild then without even trying.  It is weird to find out that what people were frantically denying back then is is the undisputed truth now. 

[pulmonarymd]

Nov 14, 2021 14:32:37 GMT -5 haapai said:

Nov 14, 2021 14:14:34 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Death certificates are public documents. Now it maybe fictional, but that is another issue

Thank-you.  Now how do I search for his death certificate?  I'm not a relative and I do not want a copy.  Can I find the official fiction without petitioning for it or paying for it?  Are there totally public and free places that I can search for the story? 

I feel so pathetic asking for how to find a public document that may be fictional, but if it mentions Covid, that part probably isn't made up. 

I don’t know how you get one. I haven’t been all that interested in finding out cause of death, doesn’t really change the fact they died. Covid cases need to be reported tithe health department, but contact tracing has been hit and miss. You did not get sick, so if they had Covid it is water under the bridge.

Personally, I would assume your company does not really care about protecting you, unless you are irreplaceable. I do not trust my fellow man to act responsibly. You could report them to zOhSA, but this is why they exist in the first place and why the vaccine mandate was put in place

[Rukh O'Rorke]

if you were in any danger over his sickness, that time is passed now.

Let it go.

[NastyWoman]

Nov 14, 2021 15:26:46 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

How about just minding your business.

As others have responded in a similar way this is addressed to all not just Andy.

Because if it was Covid she would know more about managements approach to keep its workers safe? If I am not mistaken Haapai works in a store, unlike me - I sit safe!y behind my computer at home and what our company does or does not do, does not directly affect me. 
While MPL has a point tnat after a month there is no longer any risk to Haapai, if they did not inform her when this person first was out they DID put her life at risk and it is her business and her right to know.. This is after all an ongoing pandemic and it has not ended because of this one death.

[laterbloomer]

Go get tested. It's the safest thing to do if you are at all concerned.

As for those saying mind your own business, it is her business to know if she's been exposed to something contagious and potentially deadly.

[andi9899]

Her coworkers health history is none of her business at this point. The coworker has been out for weeks. If she had gotten COVID from said coworker, she would know it by now. Thus she hasn't contracted it from the coworker and it's none of her business.

Let's just say she was exposed and was not told. What happens then? Do you quit or sue? If the answer is no, mind your business.

[haapai]

Nov 14, 2021 16:09:28 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

if you were in any danger over his sickness, that time is passed now.

Let it go.

I totally get that this guy's Covid infection, if it ever happened, or if it ever got confirmed with a PCR test, is so far in the past that it does not affect me now.  I didn't get sick.  I don't think that anyone around me got sick as a result of me getting sick and not realizing it.  Yeah, there's no wah-wah in pursuing that thread. 

OTOH,  I'm pretty sure that someone is pushing gas up my ass.  Gas up the ass is not my thing.  It does not tickle me.  It may also kill me.  The guy that I work with is dead and some folks say that it is covid and the rest refuse to say anything while implying that I don't deserve to know anything or that I am too $16 an hour to get the truth. 

[pulmonarymd]

Nov 14, 2021 16:17:20 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Nov 14, 2021 15:26:46 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

How about just minding your business.

As others have responded in a similar way this is addressed to all not just Andy.

Because if it was Covid she would know more about managements approach to keep its workers safe? If I am not mistaken Haapai works in a store, unlike me - I sit safe!y behind my computer at home and what our company does or does not do, does not directly affect me. 
While MPL has a point tnat after a month there is no longer any risk to Haapai, if they did not inform her when this person first was out they DID put her life at risk and it is her business and her right to know.. This is after all an ongoing pandemic and it has not ended because of this one death.

In my experience, businesses only care about your health if it affects their bottom line. If they were responsible, we would not need OHSA. And, if you work in a place where acknowledging Covid exists would cost you business, they will act in their own best interest. Look at paid sick leave, sick leave policies, and just the culture of staying home. They flat out do not care. Act accordingly

[andi9899]

Nov 14, 2021 16:29:50 GMT -5 haapai said:

Nov 14, 2021 16:09:28 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

if you were in any danger over his sickness, that time is passed now.

Let it go.

I totally get that this guy's Covid infection, if it ever happened, or if it ever got confirmed with a PCR test, is so far in the past that it does not affect me now.  I didn't get sick.  I don't think that anyone around me got sick as a result of me getting sick and not realizing it.  Yeah, there's no wah-wah in pursuing that thread. 

OTOH,  I'm pretty sure that someone is pushing gas up my ass.  Gas up the ass is not my thing.  It does not tickle me.  It may also kill me.  The guy that I work with is dead and some folks say that it is covid and the rest refuse to say anything while implying that I don't deserve to know anything or that I am too $16 an hour to get the truth. 

Then assume that he had it and you were exposed and do what you're going to do about it.

[Deleted]

Nov 14, 2021 14:32:37 GMT -5 haapai said:

Nov 14, 2021 14:14:34 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Death certificates are public documents. Now it maybe fictional, but that is another issue

Thank-you.  Now how do I search for his death certificate?  I'm not a relative and I do not want a copy.  Can I find the official fiction without petitioning for it or paying for it?  Are there totally public and free places that I can search for the story? 

I feel so pathetic asking for how to find a public document that may be fictional, but if it mentions Covid, that part probably isn't made up. 

I doubt you'll get that info. When my Ex died I was curious what the reported cause was and only family members could get the form with that info (others could get a less-detailed form). Not sure how they enforce this but I had DS, who shares the Ex's last name, get it. (Yes, they did list it as cirrhosis.)

Could you maybe ask, "Was X's death something that might have been contagious to others?" I agree iwth getting tested for peace of mind.

[pulmonarymd]

Just googled how to get death certificates. In my state, anyone over 18 can get one for a fee. Not sure what it looks like.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Nov 14, 2021 16:29:50 GMT -5 haapai said:

Nov 14, 2021 16:09:28 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

if you were in any danger over his sickness, that time is passed now.

Let it go.

I totally get that this guy's Covid infection, if it ever happened, or if it ever got confirmed with a PCR test, is so far in the past that it does not affect me now.  I didn't get sick.  I don't think that anyone around me got sick as a result of me getting sick and not realizing it.  Yeah, there's no wah-wah in pursuing that thread. 

OTOH,  I'm pretty sure that someone is pushing gas up my ass.  Gas up the ass is not my thing.  It does not tickle me.  It may also kill me.  The guy that I work with is dead and some folks say that it is covid and the rest refuse to say anything while implying that I don't deserve to know anything or that I am too $16 an hour to get the truth. 

If it is not of immediate concern then it's none of your business. You have absolutely no proof even if he did have COVID that he caught it at work or you were even exposed.

Employers are not obligated to share the details of their employees health or death with you.

If you think your employer is so crooked they.are part of a mass cover up as opposed to behaving as any business would then go work for someone else.

[Deleted]

Nov 14, 2021 16:48:36 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Employers are not obligated to share the details of their employees health or death with you.

If you think your employer is so crooked they.are part of a mass cover up as opposed to behaving as any business would then go work for someone else.

Are they obligated to tell you if you may have been exposed to a serious contagious disease? If it WAS COVID and they kept it quiet during a period when OP should have quarantined, yes, it would be good to know what kind of employer you were working for.

[minnesotapaintlady]

I just looked up our state's death certificate application form and you have to have a verifiable relationship with the deceased. You can't just pull a certificate on someone out of curiosity. There is a list of qualified relationships like the attorney or the executor or a trust. You also need to know some personal information on the application. They ask for the deceased birthdate and parent's names for example.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Nov 14, 2021 16:53:53 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Nov 14, 2021 16:48:36 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Employers are not obligated to share the details of their employees health or death with you.

If you think your employer is so crooked they.are part of a mass cover up as opposed to behaving as any business would then go work for someone else.

Are they obligated to tell you if you may have been exposed to a serious contagious disease? If it WAS COVID and they kept it quiet during a period when OP should have quarantined, yes, it would be good to know what kind of employer you were working for.

Not unless you were directly exposed. If a coworker cut themselves and sprayed me in the face and they have Hep B or HIV then yes.

Having been out for weeks with nothing to do with me in that time frame? No. It's well past any threat to the OP it's none of her business.

And if that is the case then every sick day reason should be disclosed too. Can't be too careful. After all they might be lying it's for a pal smear they.are probably trying to cover up they have COVID.

I'm all for being safe but digging for someone's death certificate? That's ridiculously paranoid.

Call your public health office if you're that worried your employer is violating health procedures.

[pulmonarymd]

Nov 14, 2021 16:53:53 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Nov 14, 2021 16:48:36 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Employers are not obligated to share the details of their employees health or death with you.

If you think your employer is so crooked they.are part of a mass cover up as opposed to behaving as any business would then go work for someone else.

Are they obligated to tell you if you may have been exposed to a serious contagious disease? If it WAS COVID and they kept it quiet during a period when OP should have quarantined, yes, it would be good to know what kind of employer you were working for.

Certain diseases are reportable to the health department. They are supposed to do contact tracing and the like. The flu can kill you, but it is not reportable, for example.

Now, if you are asking the morality of that behavior, that is different. But we have already decided that business is not required to act morally, because capitalism

[haapai]

Nov 14, 2021 16:37:44 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Just googled how to get death certificates. In my state, anyone over 18 can get one for a fee. Not sure what it looks like.

I might just follow up on your breadcrumbs.  If all else fails, and I am still angry about being stonewalled.  I might just follow up on this option, even though date of birth and address might be tricky and make me feel like a sneak.  It's so odd that if I felt that I needed this information in order to get the information that I needed to protect myself, I'd be reading the possibly disingenuous death notices and obits for clues that would unlock the possibly fictional death certificates. 

I'll have to think about this for a while.  Before asking the state to show me the death certificate of a stranger who I didn't like, I probably should ask them for my great-grandfather's death certificate and get a sense of what is and is not on such a document.  I'm pretty certain that my great-grandfather committed suicide, but it might be useful to get a copy of his death certificate to see how reliable family stories are and how they are revealed or obscured in the records. 

I'm pretty sure that my family hasn't been fibbing about great-grandpa/dad's first and last name offing himself.  That's just not something that you fib about, or invent decades after someone has died of something else.  Ergo, it might be helpful to take a look at g-g-pa's death documents say or do not say before requesting those of a stranger.  Knowing what kind of codswallop flies (or will not fly) in various decades, is pretty important to evaluating the veracity of what gets said to you now. 

[pulmonarymd]

Nov 14, 2021 17:37:28 GMT -5 haapai said:

Nov 14, 2021 16:37:44 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Just googled how to get death certificates. In my state, anyone over 18 can get one for a fee. Not sure what it looks like.

I might just follow up on your breadcrumbs.  If all else fails, and I am still angry about being stonewalled.  I might just follow up on this option, even though date of birth and address might be tricky and make me feel like a sneak.  It's so odd that if I felt that I needed this information in order to get the information that I needed to protect myself, I'd be reading the possibly disingenuous death notices and obits for clues that would unlock the possibly fictional death certificates. 

I'll have to think about this for a while.  Before asking the state to show me the death certificate of a stranger who I didn't like, I probably should ask them for my great-grandfather's death certificate and get a sense of what is and is not on such a document.  I'm pretty certain that my great-grandfather committed suicide, but it might be useful to get a copy of his death certificate to see how reliable family stories are and how they are revealed or obscured in the records. 

I'm pretty sure that my family hasn't been fibbing about great-grandpa/dad's first and last name offing himself.  That's just not something that you fib about, or invent decades after someone has died of something else.  Ergo, it might be helpful to take a look at g-g-pa's death documents say or do not say before requesting those of a stranger.  Knowing what kind of codswallop flies (or will not fly) in various decades, is pretty important to evaluating the veracity of what gets said to you now. 

Death certificates are as useful as the person filling them out. Many physicians do not care enough to be accurate, or the put something generic like cardiac arrest. The worst is the ones who want to “spare” the family’s feelings. It is a legal document and needs to be treated as such. That can provide valuable benefit for research into how things change over time.

Personally, I do not think it is worth the effort. You already know how your employer has acted during the pandemic. How does this change anything?

[minnesotapaintlady]

How about you just assume he died of covid? Your boss already told you that anyhow. What difference does it make? In order to show wrongdoing you'd have to prove he was working on a day he was contagious and that your employer actually knew this. Good luck with that as he's been out for weeks. And assuming you could, then what?

[Tiny]

Nov 14, 2021 13:11:55 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Your bosses aren’t telling you because that would be a HIPPA violation. When Covid started, my company would announce when someone tested positive in a particular area, and also would bring exposed coworkers in ( anyone who had been near the person for 15 minutes or more- and every one was wearing masks). There were complaints, however, because if they announced someone from the art department had tested positive and there’s only 3 people in the art department, and two were still at work, it’s easy to figure out who had Covid. Now they only pull in people who could have been exposed and tell them privately.

Another possibility is that the family may be denying it was Covid related and the might sue if his coworkers refer to him as a Covid death. Where I live people will claim a person died from pneumonia or from a blood clot, failing to mention the person had Covid which led to the condition.

Can you ask HR what your Covid policy is? Maybe they only tell people they think might have been within six feet of him for at least 15 minutes during the period he was contagious?

I don't think it's a HIPAA thing.  After being exposed to a sick coworker (as in I had direct prolonged contact with them) my employer emailed me and named the person.    Another more "generic" email went out that didn't name the person but did indicate the floors and times that a person who tested positive for COVID19 had been in the office.   So the person got named to those of us who had direct contact.  And if you happened to be in the office on a day they were there but maybe didn't see or speak to them - you just got a notice that someone in the office had Covid19. 


 

[Miss Tequila]

Nov 14, 2021 16:29:50 GMT -5 haapai said:

Nov 14, 2021 16:09:28 GMT -5 Rukh O'Rorke said:

if you were in any danger over his sickness, that time is passed now.

Let it go.

I totally get that this guy's Covid infection, if it ever happened, or if it ever got confirmed with a PCR test, is so far in the past that it does not affect me now.  I didn't get sick.  I don't think that anyone around me got sick as a result of me getting sick and not realizing it.  Yeah, there's no wah-wah in pursuing that thread. 

OTOH,  I'm pretty sure that someone is pushing gas up my ass.  Gas up the ass is not my thing.  It does not tickle me.  It may also kill me.  The guy that I work with is dead and some folks say that it is covid and the rest refuse to say anything while implying that I don't deserve to know anything or that I am too $16 an hour to get the truth. 

Your salary has nothing to do with your right to know. Some people are very private with their health issues. The higher ups might not even know his cause of death.

At this point, it truly is none of your business. You don’t even know that he originally had Covid. Rumor had it that he had Covid.