I didn't mean to be racist, I'm just an idiot

[Spellbound454]

I'm not so keen on people filming incidents on cell phones....... (although I do appreciate, in the George Floyd case, it has thrown up some anomalies.)

People gore-gobble..... and start filming car crashes with injured passengers..... to put in on social media

Its just indecent....... and very distressing for friends and relatives, if their loved ones death has been used as someone else's entertainment.


Body cam footage has been seen to be ineffective..... so that's perhaps something to look at.
Clearer pictures that give a better narrative.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I was first slapped in the face with racism while in my white bubble when I lived in TX.  I had a good coworker and friend who was black, and the lab (in various permutations) socialized together.

One weekend, we went to a car show in Houston....about a 3 hour drive.  2 white women and David.  David was driving Sarah’s car (a 1971 Chevelle classic) and Sarah and I were dozing, it was after midnight.  We got lost getting out of Houston and were looking for the highway an$ wound up in a residential area.  David got pulled over by cops, because he was where he wasn’t supposed to be.  The cop came up to the car with his gun drawn, and scarily antagonistic.  That is, until he shone his light in the car and realized his actions were being observed by 2 white women.  Cops did a 180 in attitude, directed us to the highway, but I often wonder what would have happened if Sarah and I weren’t there.

A few months later, we drove out to Luckenbach to listen to some music and drink beer.  There must have been 6 of us in this trip.  No one would sell David a beer, so the group of us just kept him supplied.   This was the weenie way out of it, we should have demanded that they serve him too.  

Both of these events occurred around 1995ish, but things have just gotten worse since then.  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 12, 2021 11:46:49 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I'm not so keen on people filming incidents on cell phones....... (although I do appreciate, in the George Floyd case, it has thrown up some anomalies.)

People gore-gobble..... and start filming car crashes with injured passengers..... to put in on social media

Its just indecent....... and very distressing for friends and relatives, if their loved ones death has been used as someone else's entertainment.


Body cam footage has been seen to be ineffective..... so that's perhaps something to look at.
Clearer pictures that give a better narrative.

Perhaps you need to google Lt Nazario’s traffic stop shown from police body cams.  You’d be wrong.  

There is no question as to the narrative here.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Apr 12, 2021 11:42:17 GMT -5 nidena said:

Apr 12, 2021 9:32:49 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I do think cell phone videos and facebook helped. Even if you're sure racism is a thing of the past, there have been so many videos of traffic stops that are heart breaking and soul crushing. I know there are still deniers out there, but that is what makes me angry. Who hasn't been pulled over to be able to compare to their own experience. I know I've never been questioned like the police are in those videos, and its not because I was innocent.

I got pulled over a couple weeks ago--unsafe lane change.  It was nothing more than an inconvenience.  I had left work early to be somewhere and now I was going to be late.  The whole time I'm thinking: "I don't have to think about getting killed."  After I was given my ticket and the officer said "Drive safe," I asked him to help me be able to pull back out into traffic because we were on the center median of I465 at 5:30pm.  THAT'S privilege and I acknowledged it the moment I asked and the whole time I drove home.

DH got slapped in the face with white male privilege when he set off the alarm at work.  He's not sure what the heck the thought process was but SIX cop cars pulled up and the cops came out with guns drawn yelling at him to put his hands up.  They did a 180 when he turned around.  He said in that moment he realized that if he had been black or Hispanic he would have been dead.   It really shook him up as it should have.

[Lizard Queen]

Apr 12, 2021 12:07:40 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Apr 12, 2021 11:46:49 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I'm not so keen on people filming incidents on cell phones....... (although I do appreciate, in the George Floyd case, it has thrown up some anomalies.)

People gore-gobble..... and start filming car crashes with injured passengers..... to put in on social media

Its just indecent....... and very distressing for friends and relatives, if their loved ones death has been used as someone else's entertainment.


Body cam footage has been seen to be ineffective..... so that's perhaps something to look at.
Clearer pictures that give a better narrative.

Perhaps you need to google Lt Nazario’s traffic stop shown from police body cams.  You’d be wrong.  

There is no question as to the narrative here.

The story has been all over Twitter for days:
www.vice.com/amp/en/article/y3dm3m/cops-caught-on-video-holding-a-black-army-lieutenant-at-gunpoint-then-pepper-spraying-him?__twitter_impression=true

[raeoflyte]

Apr 12, 2021 11:46:49 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I'm not so keen on people filming incidents on cell phones....... (although I do appreciate, in the George Floyd case, it has thrown up some anomalies.)

People gore-gobble..... and start filming car crashes with injured passengers..... to put in on social media

Its just indecent....... and very distressing for friends and relatives, if their loved ones death has been used as someone else's entertainment.


Body cam footage has been seen to be ineffective..... so that's perhaps something to look at.
Clearer pictures that give a better narrative.

Thats a very different thing to be filming?

If Christian Cooper hadn't been filming when he asked that woman to put a leash on her dog he probably would have been arrested or worse.

[Spellbound454]

Yes but where do you draw the line?

Its one thing to protect yourself..... but is there anything in place to ensure that people don't offend public decency?

[raeoflyte]

Apr 12, 2021 13:09:00 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Yes but where do you draw the line?

Its one thing to protect yourself..... but is there anything in place to ensure that people don't offend public decency?

I think that's a question for if or when there is significant tangible evidence that POC are not targeted by police. Every life those videos save and the education they bring is worthwhile.

Its honestly a red herring in this discussion. People film and take pictures and then post anything and everything. Its odd to me that its brought up as a negative when it was presented as a tool that is uncovering pervasive racism.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 12, 2021 13:09:00 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Yes but where do you draw the line?

Its one thing to protect yourself..... but is there anything in place to ensure that people don't offend public decency?

The same place where you’d draw it if you had a still camera.  However, sometimes those videos of accidents that have been shot by gawkers have been useful in accidents or for insurance purposes to show someone has been doing something illegal....like texting and driving.  

However, this is a straw argument and like your Meghan Markle comment, irrelevant.  

[billisonboard]

Apr 12, 2021 13:09:00 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Yes but where do you draw the line?

Its one thing to protect yourself..... but is there anything in place to ensure that people don't offend public decency?

I draw the line on my screens.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 12, 2021 13:21:53 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Apr 12, 2021 13:09:00 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Yes but where do you draw the line?

Its one thing to protect yourself..... but is there anything in place to ensure that people don't offend public decency?

I think that's a question for if or when there is significant tangible evidence that POC are not targeted by police. Every life those videos save and the education they bring is worthwhile.

Its honestly a red herring in this discussion. People film and take pictures and then post anything and everything. Its odd to me that its brought up as a negative when it was presented as a tool that is uncovering pervasive racism.

And isn’t that in itself racist?

[nidena]

I hate the videos.  They make me uncomfortable.  And that's EXACTLY why these situations need to be filmed, from many angles, all over the place.  Keep me uncomfortable so that I continue to work towards using my privilege to help those with fewer privileges; not in a "I'm fixing your situation" way but in a "dismantling white supremacy" and "redirecting resources to communities that really need it" kind of way.

[thyme4change]

I'm not sure how filming the aftermath of a car accident and filming an altercation in progress relate. I believe there is a pretty clear line.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 12, 2021 13:33:46 GMT -5 nidena said:

I hate the videos.  They make me uncomfortable.  And that's EXACTLY why these situations need to be filmed, from many angles, all over the place.  Keep me uncomfortable so that I continue to work towards using my privilege to help those with fewer privileges; not in a "I'm fixing your situation" way but in a "dismantling white supremacy" and "redirecting resources to communities that really need it" kind of way.

And that is exactly why it needs to be done.  The more people that see it, the louder the voices and the more likely changes are going to be made.

I don't see how ANYONE can look at that traffic stop in VA and not scream about the injustice of it.  For me, it is disturbing to the bottom of my gut.

[raeoflyte]

www.cnn.com/2021/04/12/us/brooklyn-center-minnesota-police-shooting/index.html

This just happened. Even if there are warrants, what immediate threat did this man pose to be shot? To even have guns or tasers drawn because of fucking air freshener? Come on.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Apr 12, 2021 13:09:00 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Yes but where do you draw the line?

Its one thing to protect yourself..... but is there anything in place to ensure that people don't offend public decency?

I don't think sharing the pictures of dead Kobe Bryant and his daughter were appropriate.    There was no reason for the sheriffs to share the photos of the wreck and I hope his wife wins her lawsuit.   

I think the line is pretty darn clear if you're a half way intelligent compassionate human being.

I find filming George Floyd being suffocated by police to acceptable.   If they are going to do nothing to hold themselves accountable and circle the wagon then it's up to the public to hold them accountable.  It SHOULD make you uncomfortable and offend you but not because someone recorded it.  It should offend you and make you uncomfortable because what is happening is wrong.    

[laterbloomer]

I never thought I would see a big plus to the idea that Big Brother is watching but this discussion is doing it for me. I am going to support the CCTV being proposed for our downtown area. It's small but it's a start.

[nidena]

Apr 12, 2021 14:04:18 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Apr 12, 2021 13:09:00 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Yes but where do you draw the line?

Its one thing to protect yourself..... but is there anything in place to ensure that people don't offend public decency?

I don't think sharing the pictures of dead Kobe Bryant and his daughter were appropriate.    There was no reason for the sheriffs to share the photos of the wreck and I hope his wife wins her lawsuit.   

I think the line is pretty darn clear if you're a half way intelligent compassionate human being.

I find filming George Floyd being suffocated by police to acceptable.   If they are going to do nothing to hold themselves accountable and circle the wagon then it's up to the public to hold them accountable.  It SHOULD make you uncomfortable and offend you but not because someone recorded it.  It should offend you and make you uncomfortable because what is happening is wrong.    

I think it's the difference between gratuitous images and images that lead to justice because of mistreatment.

[Spellbound454]

Apr 12, 2021 13:23:33 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Apr 12, 2021 13:21:53 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I think that's a question for if or when there is significant tangible evidence that POC are not targeted by police. Every life those videos save and the education they bring is worthwhile.

Its honestly a red herring in this discussion. People film and take pictures and then post anything and everything. Its odd to me that its brought up as a negative when it was presented as a tool that is uncovering pervasive racism.

And isn’t that in itself racist?

So I'm a racist again am I...... FFS... You guys are something else 

Actually, I'm thinking of relatives and friends who have to see their dead loved one plastered all over social media...... before they even know they have died.
Would you like that?
If you live in a society where everything is filmed.... it may well become the norm.
We have CCTV and Body Cams.

BTW Just because I'm putting a different perspective on a conversation..... doesn't make me stupid or racist.
Enough with the spitefulness.

[swamp]

Apr 11, 2021 21:02:05 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Apr 11, 2021 18:59:08 GMT -5 swamp said:

Personally, I didn’t realize the extent of racism because I’ve lived in my happy white privilege bubble.   I also don’t really understand and can’t fathom how someone can be so rotten to another human just because they are a different  race.   

I kind of get it, even though the “other” side of me doesn’t want to. But all of me knows first hand how difficult it has been over the last few years, for me try to wrap my mind around the fact that people do things all the time, that I would never, ever do. Things that would never even occur to me as an option. So, yeah.

But I also can’t resist another opportunity to point out that I’ve talked about some of these things occasionally, from the time I’ve been on these boards. Sometimes, I was pretty much told to shut up, I’ve been told to just be grateful I was born here instead of wherever my ancestors come from (which I honestly have no clue), and other times, what I talked about was met with disbelief. When I posted about the Klan having a rally here several years ago, it was dismissed. They aren’t relevant anymore, if they even still exist, it’s in minuscule numbers, we’ve moved past those days. Then here comes Trump, and surprise! The Klan and other groups like them aren’t so small in number and agenda after all. And I’m like “dammit! I TOLD y’all that!”

These thoughts aren’t directed specifically at you swamp, once again, I’m just typing as I think. And if I’ve offended you by seeming to have singled you out just because you honestly replied to a post, I do sincerely apologize.

I’m not offended at all and I hope you keep posting. I’ve learned so much from you. You are willing to tell me things about your experience as a black woman in America that I can’t experience on my own, I’m not comfortable asking anyone, or it never would have occurred to me.

I remember several years ago on the boards you, Carl, and Jenny were discussing some common experiences as black people. I also remember people dismissing your experiences since they as white people hadn’t or couldn’t. I was horrified that some people whom I previously respected and I thought were smart could be that narrow minded. That thread was a game changer for me.

[Spellbound454]

 I think it's the difference between gratuitous images and images that lead to justice because of mistreatment

That was the answer I was looking for.

  Sometimes, I was pretty much told to shut up,

Me too.... Perhaps we should team up. I'm not Black but I'm English, so I'm different.

[swamp]

Apr 12, 2021 13:09:00 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Yes but where do you draw the line?

Its one thing to protect yourself..... but is there anything in place to ensure that people don't offend public decency?

I dunno but a VOP standing on a guys neck for 9 minutes offends my sense of public decency more than the filming of it does.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Apr 12, 2021 14:25:33 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Apr 12, 2021 13:23:33 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

And isn’t that in itself racist?

So I'm a racist again am I...... FFS... You guys are something else 

Actually, I'm thinking of relatives and friends who have to see their dead loved one plastered all over social media...... before they even know they have died.
Would you like that?
If you live in a society where everything is filmed.... it may well become the norm.
We have CCTV and Body Cams.

BTW Just because I'm putting a different perspective on a conversation..... doesn't make me stupid or racist.
Enough with the spitefulness.

It would suck but knowing what I know now about how fundementally flawed our system is and how it will do anything to protect itself if my loved one died because of social injustice and it was caught on camera I would hope that it inspires others to hold society accountable for their actions.   Instead of my loved one being another statistic swept into the filing cabinet their death could inspire change.

I can't speak for others thoughts and feelings.   Maybe we can get to a day where the police hold themselves accountable and you won't need people with their cell phones out.   That day is a long ways away as evidenced by recent events.

And like I said a half way decent human being knows where to draw the line.   Pictures of dead Kobe Bryant are gratuitous.   Catching a cop literally smothering someone to death which they then deny and you can prove wrong. .. I'm willing to risk offending someone over it.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 12, 2021 14:25:33 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Apr 12, 2021 13:23:33 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

And isn’t that in itself racist?

So I'm a racist again am I...... FFS... You guys are something else 

Actually, I'm thinking of relatives and friends who have to see their dead loved one plastered all over social media...... before they even know they have died.
Would you like that?
If you live in a society where everything is filmed.... it may well become the norm.
We have CCTV and Body Cams.

BTW Just because I'm putting a different perspective on a conversation..... doesn't make me stupid or racist.
Enough with the spitefulness.

What you write here suggests that you are.  Racists don't think that they're racist, but ultimately it comes out in some of their language.  Hell, I know I have made racist comments, but I really do attempt to do better.  The difference is, I am trying to do better and you refuse to see where your problem is, even when it's pointed out to you.

About the rest, those cameras are how we are able to catch people doing illegal things.  It's how the guy that robbed and shot the 7-11 clerk gets caught, or how they figure out who snagged a kid.  It tracks license plates of non custodial parents who don't return children - and tell the true story.  

Would I like to see a dead body shown gratuitously?  Absolutely not.  As Drama said about Kobe Bryant's pics - those got shut down almost immediately as the uproar about them demonstrated that that was not smart.  However, if showing a picture of someone being killed and the person doing it gets plastered all over media?  I'm all for it - even if it's me.

I'm not spiteful, just pointing out the the incongruity in your arguments.  

[billisonboard]

I am more concerned with decency police than anything someone might film and post on social media. 

[Spellbound454]

 It would suck but knowing what I know now about how fundementally flawed our system is and how it will do anything to protect itself if my loved one died because of social injustice and it was caught on camera I would hope that it inspires others to hold society accountable for their actions. Instead of my loved one being another statistic swept into the filing cabinet their death could inspire change.



I can't speak for others thoughts and feelings. Maybe we can get to a day where the police hold themselves accountable and you won't need people with their cell phones out. That day is a long ways away as evidenced by recent events.

Ok....so you need to iron out the flaws in the system, so that people can have confidence in the Police... that they won't go overboard.

Also lets not forget that Policing is a dangerous occupation.... from wiki

"2020, The Officer Down Memorial Page reports 343 deaths in the line of duty.[26] The leading cause of death for 2020 is COVID-19 at 222 deaths followed by gunfire at 45 deaths. The state with the largest amount of line of duty deaths is Texas with 73 followed by Georgia with 19. The U.S. Government had 25 line of duty deaths."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_enforcement_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty_in_the_United_States

They have got families and friends as well

So the public and the Police need protecting with something that can show accountability.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Apr 12, 2021 14:46:39 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 It would suck but knowing what I know now about how fundementally flawed our system is and how it will do anything to protect itself if my loved one died because of social injustice and it was caught on camera I would hope that it inspires others to hold society accountable for their actions. Instead of my loved one being another statistic swept into the filing cabinet their death could inspire change.



I can't speak for others thoughts and feelings. Maybe we can get to a day where the police hold themselves accountable and you won't need people with their cell phones out. That day is a long ways away as evidenced by recent events.

Ok....so you need to iron out the flaws in the system, so that people can have confidence in the Police... that they won't go overboard.

Also lets not forget that Policing is a dangerous occupation.... from wiki

"2020, The Officer Down Memorial Page reports 343 deaths in the line of duty.[26] The leading cause of death for 2020 is COVID-19 at 222 deaths followed by gunfire at 45 deaths. The state with the largest amount of line of duty deaths is Texas with 73 followed by Georgia with 19. The U.S. Government had 25 line of duty deaths."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_enforcement_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty_in_the_United_States

They have got families and friends as well

So the public and the Police need protecting with something that can show accountability.

Yes being a police officer is dangerous, nobody said it wasn't.  That's not the conversation we are having.  A dead cop does not excuse someone holding their knee on a prostrate restrained person for 9 minutes.

People who are victims of police brutality have the right to discuss it and hold those people accountable without having to pay lip service and soothe the feelings of people who are not comfortable accepting that the system they benefit from is flawed.  

[nidena]

Apr 12, 2021 14:29:53 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

  Sometimes, I was pretty much told to shut up,

Me too.... Perhaps we should team up. I'm not Black but I'm English, so I'm different.

The parallel you're drawing here is so far off the mark that it's perpendicular.

[nidena]

Apr 12, 2021 14:46:39 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 It would suck but knowing what I know now about how fundementally flawed our system is and how it will do anything to protect itself if my loved one died because of social injustice and it was caught on camera I would hope that it inspires others to hold society accountable for their actions. Instead of my loved one being another statistic swept into the filing cabinet their death could inspire change.



I can't speak for others thoughts and feelings. Maybe we can get to a day where the police hold themselves accountable and you won't need people with their cell phones out. That day is a long ways away as evidenced by recent events.

Ok....so you need to iron out the flaws in the system, so that people can have confidence in the Police... that they won't go overboard.

Also lets not forget that Policing is a dangerous occupation.... from wiki

"2020, The Officer Down Memorial Page reports 343 deaths in the line of duty.[26] The leading cause of death for 2020 is COVID-19 at 222 deaths followed by gunfire at 45 deaths. The state with the largest amount of line of duty deaths is Texas with 73 followed by Georgia with 19. The U.S. Government had 25 line of duty deaths."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_enforcement_officers_killed_in_the_line_of_duty_in_the_United_States

They have got families and friends as well

So the public and the Police need protecting with something that can show accountability.

And there's that Whataboutism...

[Spellbound454]

Well the system is flawed ... It must be, or George Floyed wouldn't be dead.

....and someone else has been shot tonight..... by apparently using a gun instead of a taser.

Why does this keep happening? ... and what can be done?

 And there's that Whataboutism...

No its attempt to present a fuller picture.
Its not an either/or..... the two are related.