I didn't mean to be racist, I'm just an idiot

[Deleted]

What does Meghan Markle have to do with any of this? She said what she said, people either believe she wasn’t treated the best or they don’t. A lot of people believe that Princess Diana wasn’t treated well either, and she wasn’t mixed race.

Is there a bit of an obsession with Meghan? There’s a whole thread about her, her husband, and his family. Why are we talking about her here too?

[Spellbound454]

There's North Korea.... and Bangladesh.... and China for a while there.

[nidena]

I, for one, am not trying to change a country, especially one I don't live in.  I'm sticking to my circle of control and circle of influence.  I can only hope that others would do the same or similar.

And there's just so much eerie similarity in dismissing what Ms. Markle said when she expressed her truth ("(whatever that means)") and what many white people here in the U.S. say when non-whites share their stories.  I guess millions of non-whites in the U.S. are full of shit with their stories because people don't believe Ms. Markle.

[raeoflyte]

Apr 11, 2021 10:32:11 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 Because racism contributes to those things as well. And to combat racism, you have to work on the big things AND the small things.

You need to work on the big things,......... not virtue signalling with objections to inconsequentialities.

New government, sensible things being said ... and make a real difference to peoples lives.

 Ok, so equal system cool, but it isn't equal right now. If we don't want to lift everyone up to the same starting point, we need to strip out a lot of privilege so that effort alone determines success. How on earth is that accomplished?

Making richer people poorer, does not make poorer people richer..... Just look at Cuba (Marxist) everyone is the same because no-one has anything.
Its a failed system.

What I believe in is a meritocracy, where everyone has the chance to better themselves... and as long as the starting points are equal... and everyone has a fair crack of the whip its a good system for a vibrant society.
Where it goes wrong is when the starting points aren't equal.

 exception for Meghan Markle? You can say anything you want, but she can't?

Not without accountability. What she said was untrue....... and she was unchallenged.

Its why I have been so opposed on here. You have only heard one side.... so it must be that those.. "nasty, racist, Brits don't like Americans or Black people" 
You have been fed a line.

So how do you make the playing ground equal so that only effort matters? Does it reset each generation or do I get to benefit from my parents and grandparents efforts? (I already am- which meant that I was in frequently in a good place to be noticed when I put in effort).

I'm not being snarky - how do you make that work? And where is it/has it worked? How is trying to be aware of our language a threat to your meritocracy ideal?

[Spellbound454]

 So how do you make the playing ground equal so that only effort matters? Does it reset each generation or do I get to benefit from my parents and grandparents efforts? (I already am- which meant that I was in frequently in a good place to be noticed when I put in effort).



I'm not being snarky - how do you make that work? And where is it/has it worked? How is trying to be aware of our language a threat to your meritocracy ideal?

It starts in Schools..... and as a educator, its what I do all the time. There is no differences in the education the kids receive..... and nothing that can get in the way if you want to achieve.
What we are starting to do more, is make sure that kids from State Schools get more of a chance at the top Universities...... and not get in because Daddy knows someone.
Its constantly being reviewed.

Little things can help...... such as making sure kids have laptops to do their online work on.
Homework clubs for those who don't have a quiet space at home.

Then later on groups and clubs to keep young minds busy and give them structure.
....and in young adulthood..... available courses to suit them with their chosen career...... Higher or vocational.
and jobs so they can start making their money.

Later on...affordable housing and so on.

Those that do well, work harder, get a degree, open a business have a place also.

Thats the way its supposed to go.... I don't expect yours is much different.

[laterbloomer]

Apr 11, 2021 11:35:11 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 So how do you make the playing ground equal so that only effort matters? Does it reset each generation or do I get to benefit from my parents and grandparents efforts? (I already am- which meant that I was in frequently in a good place to be noticed when I put in effort).



I'm not being snarky - how do you make that work? And where is it/has it worked? How is trying to be aware of our language a threat to your meritocracy ideal?

It starts in Schools..... and as a educator, its what I do all the time. There is no differences in the education the kids receive..... and nothing that can get in the way if you want to achieve.
What we are starting to do more, is make sure that kids from State Schools get more of a chance at the top Universities...... and not get in because Daddy knows someone.
Its constantly being reviewed.

Little things can help...... such as making sure kids have laptops to do their online work on.
Homework clubs for those who don't have a quiet space at home.

Then later on groups and clubs to keep young minds busy and give them structure.
....and in young adulthood..... available courses to suit them with their chosen career...... Higher or vocational.
and jobs so they can start making their money.

Later on...affordable housing and so on.

Those that do well, work harder, get a degree, open a business have a place also.

Thats the way its supposed to go.... I don't expect yours is much different.

Your first sentence contains the first lie. There is a huge difference in the education kids receive. Schools with a higher tax base have much better resources, teacher to student ratios and access to post secondary institutions.

[billisonboard]

Apr 11, 2021 11:44:03 GMT -5 laterbloomer said:

Apr 11, 2021 11:35:11 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

It starts in Schools..... and as a educator, its what I do all the time. There is no differences in the education the kids receive..... and nothing that can get in the way if you want to achieve.
What we are starting to do more, is make sure that kids from State Schools get more of a chance at the top Universities...... and not get in because Daddy knows someone.
Its constantly being reviewed.

Little things can help...... such as making sure kids have laptops to do their online work on.
Homework clubs for those who don't have a quiet space at home.

Then later on groups and clubs to keep young minds busy and give them structure.
....and in young adulthood..... available courses to suit them with their chosen career...... Higher or vocational.
and jobs so they can start making their money.

Later on...affordable housing and so on.

Those that do well, work harder, get a degree, open a business have a place also.

Thats the way its supposed to go.... I don't expect yours is much different.

Your first sentence contains the first lie. There is a huge difference in the education kids receive. Schools with a higher tax base have much better resources, teacher to student ratios and access to post secondary institutions.

The first four words are untrue: A 'million word gap' for children who aren't read to at home: That's how many fewer words some may hear by kindergarten

[Spellbound454]

Schools in the deprived areas have more money... more teachers and more resources.

The first four words are untrue: A 'million word gap' for children who aren't read to at home: That's how many fewer words some may hear by kindergarten

Sure, parents have to read to their kids if they want to give them a good start.

[raeoflyte]

www.brown.edu/news/2019-07-18/discipline

Almost a 50% gap in how teachers in the same school treat white kids vs. Black kids.

[raeoflyte]

www.apa.org/monitor/2016/11/cover-inequality-school

I have no idea how racial inequality plays out in the UK, but in the US, pretty much everything points to it being abysmal.

I also don't understand people who say they have no bias.

[Deleted]

Apr 11, 2021 11:49:36 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Schools in the deprived areas have more money... more teachers and more resources.

The first four words are untrue: A 'million word gap' for children who aren't read to at home: That's how many fewer words some may hear by kindergarten

Sure, parents have to read to their kids if they want to give them a good start.

When my children were in school, there were schools in the inner city that didn’t have textbooks until several weeks after school started. Not new schools that had yet to get organized, these were schools that have been around for as long as I can remember.

I don’t recall seeing parents whose children went to schools in “better” neighborhoods or the suburbs, on tv complaining about their children not having textbooks and nothing being done about it in a timely manner.

More money and resources, you say? 

[billisonboard]

Apr 11, 2021 11:49:36 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

Schools in the deprived areas have more money... more teachers and more resources.

The first four words are untrue: A 'million word gap' for children who aren't read to at home: That's how many fewer words some may hear by kindergarten

Sure, parents have to read to their kids if they want to give them a good start.

England's state schools suffering biggest fall in funding since 1980s, says IFS

State schools in England have suffered their worst decline in funding since the 1980s, with secondary schools and those in the most deprived areas the worst affected by the era of austerity, according to analysis by the Institute for Fiscal Studies.

[Spellbound454]

 I also don't understand people who say they have no bias.

I have no bias: I mark frequently and track their grades ... and their progress has to be 2 sublevels from the starting point in a year.
If that's not happening, I'll put extra things in place to help them catch up.
Its a numbers game.... I've got to get them to where they need to be.

 More money and resources, you say?

Yes thats what we do though I'm not sure what happens in the US
We have initiative called closing the gap and extra money for kids on free School meals.

 State schools in England have suffered their worst decline in funding since the 1980s, with secondary schools and those in the most deprived areas the worst affected by the era of austerity, according to analysis by the Institute for Fiscal Studies.

Yes our economy hasn't been great and there have been cuts ...... but the principle of equalling out the education gap is the same.
from your link
“We continue to target additional funding through the national funding formula for schools with high numbers of pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds, providing £6.3bn in 2020-21 for pupils with additional needs, representing 18% of the formula’s total funding.”

Not sure why we are concentrating on what's happening in the UK  Must be boring for someone who is not here.
What's going on in the US RE: education?

[Spellbound454]

 No, but it seemed to carry Trump for four entire years and has him still getting GOP folks coming by to kiss the ring

I don't normally post about American politics
but have you asked yourselves why people voted for Trump in the numbers they did?
Why did the BLM marches happen?

Its easy with opposing sides.... for each to think the other is stupid.
but that can't be true..... so what exactly is it they are missing?.... and how do you fix it? (assuming you want to)

[swamp]

Apr 11, 2021 4:51:17 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

"Gaslighting is just your thing, huh?"


“You get an "A" for gaslighting with your victimhood statement”


“Since that is beyond your skill set please don't interrupt when the adults are talking”


“trying to use the pandemic to deflect is so ridiculous and stupid....and racist. “


“she's already said racism doesn't exist in the UK, so it must not be a thing anywhere, I guess. 🤷‍♀‍”




This is Bullying, off several posters.

and being from a different place I might have expected something of this..........but I thought I'd just point out the hypocrisy.

All this self-flagellating indulgence for "improvement".............. and you have turned into the thing you despise.


One of the things I have noticed about Wokeness
is that it tries to shut down debate..... Its their opinion.... or you must be racist/gaslighting/liar etc.

Freedom of speech is the basis for a democracy and people are allowed differing opinions..... If there is suppression, its a dictatorship.... and a dangerous path to go down.


The rest of it achieves nothing.



When you can get the Klansmen to start reading books on "self improvement" ...Let me know

Being called out for ignorant statements is not bullying. 

[Deleted]

Apr 11, 2021 13:09:05 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 No, but it seemed to carry Trump for four entire years and has him still getting GOP folks coming by to kiss the ring

I don't normally post about American politics
but have you asked yourselves why people voted for Trump in the numbers they did?
Why did the BLM marches happen?

Its easy with opposing sides.... for each to think the other is stupid.
but that can't be true..... so what exactly is it they are missing?.... and how do you fix it? (assuming you want to)

Yep, I’ve asked myself both questions. 

Imo, people voted for Trump because a segment of the population felt it was “their turn”, others because racists and bigots felt like he was one of them, others because they thought he would bring back a way of life they yearned to return to and put money in their pockets, others because they believed he was the best choice for preserving their wealth. And for a few, Idk what the hell they were thinking. Some of the groups overlapped. 

The BLM marches happened because Black folks are fed up with being mistreated and killed for no good reason. And finally, some White Americans started to see that what many of us had been saying for decades, was in fact, true. And they didn’t like it either, so they marched too. All around the globe, people marched and stood up against police brutality and murder committed against minorities, by the police. That’s why.

[raeoflyte]

Apr 11, 2021 13:09:05 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

 No, but it seemed to carry Trump for four entire years and has him still getting GOP folks coming by to kiss the ring

I don't normally post about American politics
but have you asked yourselves why people voted for Trump in the numbers they did?
Why did the BLM marches happen?

Its easy with opposing sides.... for each to think the other is stupid.
but that can't be true..... so what exactly is it they are missing?.... and how do you fix it? (assuming you want to)

Maybe because we have a massive racism problem?

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

This suggests that racism is a problem in England’s schools, not unlike the US or other countries.  Just because someone perceives it does not exist does not make it so, particularly if you don’t know what to look for.  

www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/11/racism-united-kingdom-schools-black-children-inequality/

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 11, 2021 13:22:44 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Apr 11, 2021 13:09:05 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I don't normally post about American politics
but have you asked yourselves why people voted for Trump in the numbers they did?
Why did the BLM marches happen?

Its easy with opposing sides.... for each to think the other is stupid.
but that can't be true..... so what exactly is it they are missing?.... and how do you fix it? (assuming you want to)

Yep, I’ve asked myself both questions. 

Imo, people voted for Trump because a segment of the population felt it was “their turn”, others because racists and bigots felt like he was one of them, others because they thought he would bring back a way of life they yearned to return to and put money in their pockets, others because they believed he was the best choice for preserving their wealth. And for a few, Idk what the hell they were thinking. Some of the groups overlapped. 

The BLM marches happened because Black folks are fed up with being mistreated and killed for no good reason. And finally, some White Americans started to see that what many of us had been saying for decades, was in fact, true. And they didn’t like it either, so they marched too. All around the globe, people marched and stood up against police brutality and murder committed against minorities, by the police. That’s why.

Probably the advent of cell phone cameras is the biggest impetus to this push.  I recently watched the traffic stop in VA of a Black and Hispanic Army lieutenant who was pepper sprayed.  The man was utterly afraid for his life. The clips shown from the body cams on the cops is appalling, and left no question as to the abuse.

[Deleted]

Apr 11, 2021 13:54:08 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Apr 11, 2021 13:22:44 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Yep, I’ve asked myself both questions. 

Imo, people voted for Trump because a segment of the population felt it was “their turn”, others because racists and bigots felt like he was one of them, others because they thought he would bring back a way of life they yearned to return to and put money in their pockets, others because they believed he was the best choice for preserving their wealth. And for a few, Idk what the hell they were thinking. Some of the groups overlapped. 

The BLM marches happened because Black folks are fed up with being mistreated and killed for no good reason. And finally, some White Americans started to see that what many of us had been saying for decades, was in fact, true. And they didn’t like it either, so they marched too. All around the globe, people marched and stood up against police brutality and murder committed against minorities, by the police. That’s why.

Probably the advent of cell phone cameras is the biggest impetus to this push.  I recently watched the traffic stop in VA of a Black and Hispanic Army lieutenant who was pepper sprayed.  The man was utterly afraid for his life. The clips shown from the body cams on the cops is appalling, and left no question as to the abuse.

Cell phone cameras certainly made it easier to prove what was happening. But why was it poo-poo’d and denied for so many years before now? Why did so many people refuse to believe it, or try to find excuses? What does it mean that people refused to acknowledge police brutality against minorities for so many years, despite all the times people tried to bring attention to it? Why was Mr. Kapernick treated so badly when he tried to peacefully bring attention to it and the point he was trying to make twisted so badly that it became acceptable to make it be about something totally different from what it was really about and ignore the real problem? How’s that for a long, convoluted question?

I’m not asking you personally to answer those questions, just typing as I think.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Apr 11, 2021 16:41:51 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Apr 11, 2021 13:54:08 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Probably the advent of cell phone cameras is the biggest impetus to this push.  I recently watched the traffic stop in VA of a Black and Hispanic Army lieutenant who was pepper sprayed.  The man was utterly afraid for his life. The clips shown from the body cams on the cops is appalling, and left no question as to the abuse.

Cell phone cameras certainly made it easier to prove what was happening. But why was it poo-poo’d and denied for so many years before now? Why did so many people refuse to believe it, or try to find excuses? What does it mean that people refused to acknowledge police brutality against minorities for so many years, despite all the times people tried to bring attention to it? Why was Mr. Kapernick treated so badly when he tried to peacefully bring attention to it and the point he was trying to make twisted so badly that it became acceptable to make it be about something totally different from what it was really about and ignore the real problem? How’s that for a long, convoluted question?

I’m not asking you personally to answer those questions, just typing as I think.

I think it has become more in your face, especially on so many social media platforms.  Even if something was recorded before FB, getting it out to the public was largely dependent upon tv/news stations.  For instance, if you look at the George Floyd incident, there were no less than 4 people recording the event (at least what I saw on tv, where someone else recorded those recording the event).  You can’t blow it off as a doctored video when you have it from several sources.

Kapernick is a whole ‘nuther issue that I simply don’t understand why the message was not received.  45 certainly fed it.

[swamp]

Apr 11, 2021 16:41:51 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Apr 11, 2021 13:54:08 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Probably the advent of cell phone cameras is the biggest impetus to this push.  I recently watched the traffic stop in VA of a Black and Hispanic Army lieutenant who was pepper sprayed.  The man was utterly afraid for his life. The clips shown from the body cams on the cops is appalling, and left no question as to the abuse.

Cell phone cameras certainly made it easier to prove what was happening. But why was it poo-poo’d and denied for so many years before now? Why did so many people refuse to believe it, or try to find excuses? What does it mean that people refused to acknowledge police brutality against minorities for so many years, despite all the times people tried to bring attention to it? Why was Mr. Kapernick treated so badly when he tried to peacefully bring attention to it and the point he was trying to make twisted so badly that it became acceptable to make it be about something totally different from what it was really about and ignore the real problem? How’s that for a long, convoluted question?

I’m not asking you personally to answer those questions, just typing as I think.

Personally, I didn’t realize the extent of racism because I’ve lived in my happy white privilege bubble.   I also don’t really understand and can’t fathom how someone can be so rotten to another human just because they are a different  race.   

[Opti]

Apr 11, 2021 13:54:08 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Apr 11, 2021 13:22:44 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Yep, I’ve asked myself both questions. 

Imo, people voted for Trump because a segment of the population felt it was “their turn”, others because racists and bigots felt like he was one of them, others because they thought he would bring back a way of life they yearned to return to and put money in their pockets, others because they believed he was the best choice for preserving their wealth. And for a few, Idk what the hell they were thinking. Some of the groups overlapped. 

The BLM marches happened because Black folks are fed up with being mistreated and killed for no good reason. And finally, some White Americans started to see that what many of us had been saying for decades, was in fact, true. And they didn’t like it either, so they marched too. All around the globe, people marched and stood up against police brutality and murder committed against minorities, by the police. That’s why.

Probably the advent of cell phone cameras is the biggest impetus to this push.  I recently watched the traffic stop in VA of a Black and Hispanic Army lieutenant who was pepper sprayed.  The man was utterly afraid for his life. The clips shown from the body cams on the cops is appalling, and left no question as to the abuse.

Horrible, I found the story and the video. I hope he triumphs in his lawsuit. 

[Deleted]

Apr 11, 2021 18:59:08 GMT -5 swamp said:

Apr 11, 2021 16:41:51 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Cell phone cameras certainly made it easier to prove what was happening. But why was it poo-poo’d and denied for so many years before now? Why did so many people refuse to believe it, or try to find excuses? What does it mean that people refused to acknowledge police brutality against minorities for so many years, despite all the times people tried to bring attention to it? Why was Mr. Kapernick treated so badly when he tried to peacefully bring attention to it and the point he was trying to make twisted so badly that it became acceptable to make it be about something totally different from what it was really about and ignore the real problem? How’s that for a long, convoluted question?

I’m not asking you personally to answer those questions, just typing as I think.

Personally, I didn’t realize the extent of racism because I’ve lived in my happy white privilege bubble.   I also don’t really understand and can’t fathom how someone can be so rotten to another human just because they are a different  race.   

I kind of get it, even though the “other” side of me doesn’t want to. But all of me knows first hand how difficult it has been over the last few years, for me try to wrap my mind around the fact that people do things all the time, that I would never, ever do. Things that would never even occur to me as an option. So, yeah.

But I also can’t resist another opportunity to point out that I’ve talked about some of these things occasionally, from the time I’ve been on these boards. Sometimes, I was pretty much told to shut up, I’ve been told to just be grateful I was born here instead of wherever my ancestors come from (which I honestly have no clue), and other times, what I talked about was met with disbelief. When I posted about the Klan having a rally here several years ago, it was dismissed. They aren’t relevant anymore, if they even still exist, it’s in minuscule numbers, we’ve moved past those days. Then here comes Trump, and surprise! The Klan and other groups like them aren’t so small in number and agenda after all. And I’m like “dammit! I TOLD y’all that!”

These thoughts aren’t directed specifically at you swamp, once again, I’m just typing as I think. And if I’ve offended you by seeming to have singled you out just because you honestly replied to a post, I do sincerely apologize.

[azucena]

Pink - you just keep on typing pls.  You continue to educate us more than you think.

[raeoflyte]

www.cmu.edu/news/stories/archives/2015/june/bias-blind-spot.html

A small study on how biased we think we are compared to our peers.

[raeoflyte]

Apr 11, 2021 16:41:51 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

Apr 11, 2021 13:54:08 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Probably the advent of cell phone cameras is the biggest impetus to this push.  I recently watched the traffic stop in VA of a Black and Hispanic Army lieutenant who was pepper sprayed.  The man was utterly afraid for his life. The clips shown from the body cams on the cops is appalling, and left no question as to the abuse.

Cell phone cameras certainly made it easier to prove what was happening. But why was it poo-poo’d and denied for so many years before now? Why did so many people refuse to believe it, or try to find excuses? What does it mean that people refused to acknowledge police brutality against minorities for so many years, despite all the times people tried to bring attention to it? Why was Mr. Kapernick treated so badly when he tried to peacefully bring attention to it and the point he was trying to make twisted so badly that it became acceptable to make it be about something totally different from what it was really about and ignore the real problem? How’s that for a long, convoluted question?

I’m not asking you personally to answer those questions, just typing as I think.

I was raised with the idea that we were supposed to be color blind. That all the bad stuff was in the past and if we treat everyone the same everything will be ok. I grew up in a very white area and didn't see anything or at least not much to contradict that narrative

Around 2000 I had a coworker who talked about how at least in the south she knew who and where wasn't safe for her but that here in Colorado she had to guess. There were several things during that period of time that made me realize that racism was still an issue even here, but it took much longer for me to shake the idea that being color blind was the answer. It's a nice ideal narrative, but it creates a strong plausible deniability that it couldn't have been a race issue. That doesn't happen anymore. I'm sure that's only the tip of the ice berg, but I really think that mentality held me back, at least I didn't realize I needed to be an ally and how far we hadn't come.


I don't think that I was ever one to say someone's lived experience was wrong just because it didn't jive with mine. But I can be very stubborn...and self centered, focused on my bubble. I didn't believe in male privilege at all until dh transitioned and saw it first hand. I read about trans peoples experiences and when dh met a black trans man those accounts were confirmed, that where dh got a raise and everyone took his word the first time, black trans men were moving into a space where they were seen as a threat. Despite still being 5ft tall.

[raeoflyte]

I do think cell phone videos and facebook helped. Even if you're sure racism is a thing of the past, there have been so many videos of traffic stops that are heart breaking and soul crushing. I know there are still deniers out there, but that is what makes me angry. Who hasn't been pulled over to be able to compare to their own experience. I know I've never been questioned like the police are in those videos, and its not because I was innocent.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Apr 12, 2021 8:22:03 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

www.cmu.edu/news/stories/archives/2015/june/bias-blind-spot.html

A small study on how biased we think we are compared to our peers.

It's just like how everyone thinks they are an above average driver or gun owner.

[nidena]

Apr 12, 2021 9:32:49 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I do think cell phone videos and facebook helped. Even if you're sure racism is a thing of the past, there have been so many videos of traffic stops that are heart breaking and soul crushing. I know there are still deniers out there, but that is what makes me angry. Who hasn't been pulled over to be able to compare to their own experience. I know I've never been questioned like the police are in those videos, and its not because I was innocent.

I got pulled over a couple weeks ago--unsafe lane change.  It was nothing more than an inconvenience.  I had left work early to be somewhere and now I was going to be late.  The whole time I'm thinking: "I don't have to think about getting killed."  After I was given my ticket and the officer said "Drive safe," I asked him to help me be able to pull back out into traffic because we were on the center median of I465 at 5:30pm.  THAT'S privilege and I acknowledged it the moment I asked and the whole time I drove home.