Vaccinated

[oped]

Reuters is top center of the media bias pyramid, meaning factual and non biased as you can get. Exactly what one wants. 

[haapai]

I agree!

I wish I knew which vaccine or vaccines they were using in this trial.  I have to assume that Reuters doesn't know either.   When it's Reuters not including that information, you can be pretty sure about things like that.  Reuters is just that good. 

ETA:  After re-reading the article, I now realize that there are no vaccines involved. 

[jerseygirl]

Chilling experiment to expose volunteers to the virus. I’m happy this isn’t being done in the US because I think it’s ethically questionable
Not because the US is politically divided

[oped]

We are infecting hundreds of thousands of people a week with not a care in the world, I guess they might as well learn something from it? I mean, aren't the republicans constantly telling us its 99% nothing? 

[jerseygirl]

Feb 17, 2021 10:35:28 GMT -5 oped said:

We are infecting hundreds of thousands of people a week with not a care in the world, I guess they might as well learn something from it? I mean, aren't the republicans constantly telling us its 99% nothing? 

Certainly not deliberate infection which is what this experiment is doing.

Yep people (not just republicans and not all republicans) are not smart about life hazards. Diabetes type 2 often occurs in obese adults but no one is trying to damage a pancreas in an experiment to see effects or possible cures (obviously stretching this possible comparison)

[Ryan]

Whoever said it is right, sometimes I get the impression that there is no rhyme or reason as to why people get it.  I know people that are homeschooling their kids and being extremely cautious that have gotten it from trips to the grocery store.  The superspreader thing has got to be real because my wife has a teacher that spread it to at least 8 people, all very short amounts of time together (outside of husband/kids).  We know another lady that came back from being out of town, stopped by for a short visit to 2 families she knew, and then infected a family of 7 AND a family of 5....every single person in both families.  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Feb 17, 2021 9:57:08 GMT -5 haapai said:

Feb 17, 2021 8:32:51 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Volunteers will be given Covid virus in UK to determine smallest amount of virus to cause disease
Article says the volunteers may be given a vaccine prior to exposure
Chilling experiment

www.reuters.com/article/reutersComService_2_MOLT/idUSKBN2AH17H

Thank-you for the heads-up.  I don't usually follow Reuters but this is definitely one of the stories that I want to hear from them first.  It's not news that I want to hear of first in an opinion piece. 

I'm not chilled by the experiment as much as I am saddened.  The first thing that comes to mind is that the US cannot design or run a similar experiment.  A bitterly divided country that does not have universal health care just can't do such a thing. 

The second reaction is disappointment that they are using the original strain instead of the B.1.1.7 variant.  There's a bit of studying the last war in that decision.  I can only hope that after this trial they may be able to design and run one that uses the B.1.1.7 variant. 

It SHOULD chill you, and this experiment should absolutely NOT be run.  I am forever grateful that the US would never run something like this.....as it harkens back to the Tuskegee syphilis trials, when we did do things like this. 

They still do not know a lot about this virus, and this clinical trial is going to skew to those who need the money, so it is still taking an unprivileged class and taking advantage of them.

It’s appalling. 

[chiver78]

Feb 17, 2021 12:04:19 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Feb 17, 2021 9:57:08 GMT -5 haapai said:

Thank-you for the heads-up.  I don't usually follow Reuters but this is definitely one of the stories that I want to hear from them first.  It's not news that I want to hear of first in an opinion piece. 

I'm not chilled by the experiment as much as I am saddened.  The first thing that comes to mind is that the US cannot design or run a similar experiment.  A bitterly divided country that does not have universal health care just can't do such a thing. 

The second reaction is disappointment that they are using the original strain instead of the B.1.1.7 variant.  There's a bit of studying the last war in that decision.  I can only hope that after this trial they may be able to design and run one that uses the B.1.1.7 variant. 

It SHOULD chill you, and this experiment should absolutely NOT be run.  I am forever grateful that the US would never run something like this.....as it harkens back to the Tuskegee syphilis trials, when we did do things like this. 

They still do not know a lot about this virus, and this clinical trial is going to skew to those who need the money, so it is still taking an unprivileged class and taking advantage of them.

It’s appalling. 

Tuskegee, Dr Mengele, Unit 731. I know these people are volunteering, which the earlier folks could not, but still. yikes.

[haapai]

Feb 17, 2021 12:04:19 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Feb 17, 2021 9:57:08 GMT -5 haapai said:

Thank-you for the heads-up.  I don't usually follow Reuters but this is definitely one of the stories that I want to hear from them first.  It's not news that I want to hear of first in an opinion piece. 

I'm not chilled by the experiment as much as I am saddened.  The first thing that comes to mind is that the US cannot design or run a similar experiment.  A bitterly divided country that does not have universal health care just can't do such a thing. 

The second reaction is disappointment that they are using the original strain instead of the B.1.1.7 variant.  There's a bit of studying the last war in that decision.  I can only hope that after this trial they may be able to design and run one that uses the B.1.1.7 variant. 

It SHOULD chill you, and this experiment should absolutely NOT be run.  I am forever grateful that the US would never run something like this.....as it harkens back to the Tuskegee syphilis trials, when we did do things like this. 

They still do not know a lot about this virus, and this clinical trial is going to skew to those who need the money, so it is still taking an unprivileged class and taking advantage of them.

It’s appalling. 

I'm curious how you reached the conclusion that volunteers in this trial would do it for the money.  I read the same article and came to a different conclusion.  Britain has a functional safety net and the compensation mentioned is pretty low for 14 or more days of isolation and sample-taking.  It's enough to load up on e-books and games and to hire someone to feed your cat while you are in hospital, but not much more than that. 

It is ambiguous how trial participants will be paid after leaving isolation.  I suspect that payments will be per diem instead of continuous for a year. 

I also finished the article chuckling to myself.  I had a sneaking suspicion that 100% of the volunteers in this study will be members of the armed forces and nobody will be bending their arms to volunteer. 

[Ryan]

Feb 16, 2021 22:41:58 GMT -5 justme said:

Heard rumors that after the 65+ Florida will vaccinate the teachers and grocery workers. If true I'm really fucking pissedc they're just leaving those of us under 65 but at high risk thanks to other diseases to twist in the wind. Fucking sucks.

I don't think there really is a fair way to do it.  Grocery Workers and Teachers should be high on the list, but there isn't a distinction between teachers that are actually in front of students and teachers that are teaching full remote. Plus you have the whole other issue of people slotting themselves into a broader category.   I know a friend's wife got the vaccine and she stays at home, but she does do tutoring.  Not sure if she is doing that  now, but even if she was I'm not sure tutoring is really a teacher?  Another lady my wife knows posted to facebook that she is getting the vaccine and she's a personal trainer.  When questioned, she said that she is considered a healthcare professional.  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Feb 17, 2021 12:32:23 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Feb 17, 2021 12:04:19 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

It SHOULD chill you, and this experiment should absolutely NOT be run.  I am forever grateful that the US would never run something like this.....as it harkens back to the Tuskegee syphilis trials, when we did do things like this. 

They still do not know a lot about this virus, and this clinical trial is going to skew to those who need the money, so it is still taking an unprivileged class and taking advantage of them.

It’s appalling. 

Tuskegee, Dr Mengele, Unit 731. I know these people are volunteering, which the earlier folks could not, but still. yikes.

But is it truly ‘volunteering’ if you are paying them $122/day?  If you need money bad enough, that is going to coerce you.  

I did my share of being paid for clinical trials.  I DID need the money, but there are limits.  Only one trial did I turn down as they wanted me to go off my BP meds.  

[chiver78]

fair point. I wasn't disagreeing with you, though. my point was that the Tuskegee men and the other victims weren't given the opportunity to decline. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Feb 17, 2021 12:36:50 GMT -5 haapai said:

Feb 17, 2021 12:04:19 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

It SHOULD chill you, and this experiment should absolutely NOT be run.  I am forever grateful that the US would never run something like this.....as it harkens back to the Tuskegee syphilis trials, when we did do things like this. 

They still do not know a lot about this virus, and this clinical trial is going to skew to those who need the money, so it is still taking an unprivileged class and taking advantage of them.

It’s appalling. 

I'm curious how you reached the conclusion that volunteers in this trial would do it for the money.  I read the same article and came to a different conclusion.  Britain has a functional safety net and the compensation mentioned is pretty low for 14 or more days of isolation and sample-taking.  It's enough to load up on e-books and games and to hire someone to feed your cat while you are in hospital, but not much more than that. 

It is ambiguous how trial participants will be paid after leaving isolation.  I suspect that payments will be per diem instead of continuous for a year. 

I also finished the article chuckling to myself.  I had a sneaking suspicion that 100% of the volunteers in this study will be members of the armed forces and nobody will be bending their arms to volunteer. 

Because I used to do it myself, and I recruited for clinical trials.  I have yet to meet ANYONE who was not interested in compensation and did something for truly altruistic reasons....including me.  I used to sell my blood for $20/stick to be a normal control for one lab’s research.  

$122/day for 14 days is about $1500.  I got paid this for doing a clinical trial for looking at a new drug delivery system.  It was an old drug, new delivery to see if the new delivery minimized the side effects (it didn’t, most people still puked their guts out except me).  I had to laugh, as the only people who finished the trial were those of us who didn’t puke.  The nausea was apparently so bad that the $500/weekend they paid out was not sufficient.  

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Feb 17, 2021 12:44:13 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

fair point. I wasn't disagreeing with you, though. my point was that the Tuskegee Airmen and the other victims weren't given the opportunity to decline. 

I know you weren’t disagreeing.  But just providing how we had to look at it.  

We did a oral health and pre term birth study, where pregnant women needed to come in monthly, so we could monitor their oral health.  When they came in for a dental exam and get blood drawn, they got a Walmart gift card for $50 and a baby toy they could choose out of a box.  The gc was kinda meh, but they all wanted to choose a baby toy, and were happy to see when we got a new shipment of toys.  It’s amazing what works.  Also, the reason why we did gc was that we could no longer give cash, and since many were unbanked, sending them a check wouldn’t work.  I suspect the immediate gratification of payment helped too.  

[jerseygirl]

Pfizer submits data for easier storage conditions for vaccine. Excellent! Will make vaccine more readily available


www.reuters.com/article/reutersComService_2_MOLT/idUSKBN2AJ1CJ

[Deleted]

Feb 17, 2021 12:50:59 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Feb 17, 2021 12:36:50 GMT -5 haapai said:

I'm curious how you reached the conclusion that volunteers in this trial would do it for the money.  I read the same article and came to a different conclusion.  Britain has a functional safety net and the compensation mentioned is pretty low for 14 or more days of isolation and sample-taking.  It's enough to load up on e-books and games and to hire someone to feed your cat while you are in hospital, but not much more than that. 

It is ambiguous how trial participants will be paid after leaving isolation.  I suspect that payments will be per diem instead of continuous for a year. 

I also finished the article chuckling to myself.  I had a sneaking suspicion that 100% of the volunteers in this study will be members of the armed forces and nobody will be bending their arms to volunteer. 

Because I used to do it myself, and I recruited for clinical trials.  I have yet to meet ANYONE who was not interested in compensation and did something for truly altruistic reasons....including me.  I used to sell my blood for $20/stick to be a normal control for one lab’s research.  

$122/day for 14 days is about $1500.  I got paid this for doing a clinical trial for looking at a new drug delivery system.  It was an old drug, new delivery to see if the new delivery minimized the side effects (it didn’t, most people still puked their guts out except me).  I had to laugh, as the only people who finished the trial were those of us who didn’t puke.  The nausea was apparently so bad that the $500/weekend they paid out was not sufficient.  

I did a clinical trial to determine if the original shingles shot was effective in people in the 50-60 age group.  I did get paid but since you had to participate in the trial for an indefinite period of time before getting paid, money wasn't a motivating factor.  It ended up being 18 months between the shot and compensation.  In the meantime, you had to call in monthly and answer some questions to determine whether or not you had had shingles.

So why did I do it?  I wanted the shingles shot.  I only had a 50/50 chance of getting the actual vaccine since I could easily gotten whatever they gave the control group, but it was worth it to me.  It was only after the study was concluded that I found out that I did indeed get the actual vaccine.

I guess wanting to spare myself the pain of shingles is hardly "altruistic" in the true sense of the word, but it was definitely not for the $300 check I received 18 months later.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Feb 19, 2021 8:38:01 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Pfizer submits data for easier storage conditions for vaccine. Excellent! Will make vaccine more readily available


www.reuters.com/article/reutersComService_2_MOLT/idUSKBN2AJ1CJ

They must have been doing stability studies the last few months.  This will help a lot.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Feb 19, 2021 11:58:08 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

Feb 17, 2021 12:50:59 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Because I used to do it myself, and I recruited for clinical trials.  I have yet to meet ANYONE who was not interested in compensation and did something for truly altruistic reasons....including me.  I used to sell my blood for $20/stick to be a normal control for one lab’s research.  

$122/day for 14 days is about $1500.  I got paid this for doing a clinical trial for looking at a new drug delivery system.  It was an old drug, new delivery to see if the new delivery minimized the side effects (it didn’t, most people still puked their guts out except me).  I had to laugh, as the only people who finished the trial were those of us who didn’t puke.  The nausea was apparently so bad that the $500/weekend they paid out was not sufficient.  

I did a clinical trial to determine if the original shingles shot was effective in people in the 50-60 age group.  I did get paid but since you had to participate in the trial for an indefinite period of time before getting paid, money wasn't a motivating factor.  It ended up being 18 months between the shot and compensation.  In the meantime, you had to call in monthly and answer some questions to determine whether or not you had had shingles.

So why did I do it?  I wanted the shingles shot.  I only had a 50/50 chance of getting the actual vaccine since I could easily gotten whatever they gave the control group, but it was worth it to me.  It was only after the study was concluded that I found out that I did indeed get the actual vaccine.

I guess wanting to spare myself the pain of shingles is hardly "altruistic" in the true sense of the word, but it was definitely not for the $300 check I received 18 months later.

I just applied for a COVID vaccine trial for the exact same reason.  I want the vaccine, but am not yet eligible.  They’ll pay out $1200 for it, but the money is not why I’m doing it.

TBH, if I could get the vaccine now and bypass the clinical trial....I would.  So while I am not doing it for the money, I’m doing it for the 50% chance  I can get vaccinated before this summer.  I don’t consider that I’m altruistic about this in the least, my currency is just not money.

[Deleted]

Feb 19, 2021 12:19:10 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Feb 19, 2021 11:58:08 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

I did a clinical trial to determine if the original shingles shot was effective in people in the 50-60 age group.  I did get paid but since you had to participate in the trial for an indefinite period of time before getting paid, money wasn't a motivating factor.  It ended up being 18 months between the shot and compensation.  In the meantime, you had to call in monthly and answer some questions to determine whether or not you had had shingles.

So why did I do it?  I wanted the shingles shot.  I only had a 50/50 chance of getting the actual vaccine since I could easily gotten whatever they gave the control group, but it was worth it to me.  It was only after the study was concluded that I found out that I did indeed get the actual vaccine.

I guess wanting to spare myself the pain of shingles is hardly "altruistic" in the true sense of the word, but it was definitely not for the $300 check I received 18 months later.

I just applied for a COVID vaccine trial for the exact same reason.  I want the vaccine, but am not yet eligible.  They’ll pay out $1200 for it, but the money is not why I’m doing it.

TBH, if I could get the vaccine now and bypass the clinical trial....I would.  So while I am not doing it for the money, I’m doing it for the 50% chance  I can get vaccinated before this summer.  I don’t consider that I’m altruistic about this in the least, my currency is just not money.

So once you agree to the terms of the vaccine trial and take their shot, what happens if they open the vaccines now available to people with your underlying conditions.  I know you are motivated by the chance you may get the vaccine, but will you abandon the trial in order to be sure that you are vaccinated?  It may not ethically be the right choice (you "promised"), but this is your life.

I know the scientists conducting previous trials had problems with this.  Fortunately, I didn't have that dilemma, but I'll admit that I would probably drop out of the study for the knowledge that I had been vaccinated.  The scientists have a better shot (no pun intended) when people are motivated by money. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Feb 19, 2021 14:35:43 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

Feb 19, 2021 12:19:10 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I just applied for a COVID vaccine trial for the exact same reason.  I want the vaccine, but am not yet eligible.  They’ll pay out $1200 for it, but the money is not why I’m doing it.

TBH, if I could get the vaccine now and bypass the clinical trial....I would.  So while I am not doing it for the money, I’m doing it for the 50% chance  I can get vaccinated before this summer.  I don’t consider that I’m altruistic about this in the least, my currency is just not money.

So once you agree to the terms of the vaccine trial and take their shot, what happens if they open the vaccines now available to people with your underlying conditions.  I know you are motivated by the chance you may get the vaccine, but will you abandon the trial in order to be sure that you are vaccinated?  It may not ethically be the right choice (you "promised"), but this is your life.

I know the scientists conducting previous trials had problems with this.  Fortunately, I didn't have that dilemma, but I'll admit that I would probably drop out of the study for the knowledge that I had been vaccinated.  The scientists have a better shot (no pun intended) when people are motivated by money. 

Since I have done AND participated in clinical trials, if I am chosen I will honor my commitment.  I have been on the side where we had too much attrition in one of our clinical trials that rendered it useless.  I respect the science too much to screw them over.  This does put me in a unique place though.  Not everyone has been on the other side.

It would suck, but it’s not unlike doing the trial and finding out I have the placebo.

[NastyWoman]

Feb 17, 2021 12:44:13 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

fair point. I wasn't disagreeing with you, though. my point was that the Tuskegee men and the other victims weren't given the opportunity to decline. 

There is one more difference in the list you provided though. Not only did none of the Tuskegee, Mengele, and Unit 731 victims get to volunteer we actually recognized that what happened in  Unit 731 and Mengele's concentration camp hospitals were war crimes. For the Tuskegee victims I have not seen a similar recognition. While there has been some "yea that was bad and should not have happened" it was in fact criminal and the people in charge should have gone to jail for a long time  IMO!

[Deleted]

I'm still stunned. Last week I clicked on a random link for a health center in Sedalia, MO, about 1.5 hours from me- I saw the link on NextDoor.com. They just called. I saw the unfamiliar number and thought it was another student loan or extended auto warranty call. Nope. I have an appointment for February 27.

I am going to be nervously monitoring the weather between now and then but right now it just looks rainy. This might actually happen.

I filled out a survey for what was probably the same trial Mich is in (same $1,200 compensation)- it took all my info and then said there were none in your area, which teed me off- they could have sorted that out much earlier. I would have wanted to see what was involved and if there was the possibility of a placebo I would have wanted to know they'd eventually give me a real one, but like her, I'd stick with it if I agreed to the ground rules.

[NastyWoman]

I read something interesting today. While we all are looking for when is it my turn, or how can I get an appointment (myself included) 75% of all vaccines worldwide have gone just 10 countries. Meanwhile 150 countries have not received even a single vaccine.

Just putting it in perspective here.

apnews.com/article/un-urges-global-plan-vaccine-access-e3031807e9631bd98531b88dffa8c95f

[debthaven]

Very good point Nasty woman!

So I wrote to our GP to say we’d be very happy to get the AZ vaccine. She said you don’t have the right comorbidities, contact your pharmacist.

She’s actually wrong about that ... I don’t, but DH does. I didn’t think it was a good idea to argue with her though.



So I email our pharmacist to say we are wondering if there’s a list, if there is, can you please put us on the list.

Of course she answers, we pharmacists aren’t allowed to vaccinate yet, you need to contact your GP.

I said I did, and SHE told us to contact YOU.

So the pharmacist says, get back in touch mid March.

All we hear here is how ppl and hospitals are all refusing the AZ vaccine (which the vast majority of those vaccinated in the UK have had) ...

We’ll take it!!!

[Deleted]

Feb 19, 2021 22:38:35 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

I read something interesting today. While we all are looking for when is it my turn, or how can I get an appointment (myself included) 75% of all vaccines worldwide have gone just 10 countries. Meanwhile 150 countries have not received even a single vaccine.

Just putting it in perspective here.

apnews.com/article/un-urges-global-plan-vaccine-access-e3031807e9631bd98531b88dffa8c95f

It's not a cliche that "we're all in this together"- we really are-but to be fair, those countries have most likely provided 75% or more of the funding.  Many countries don't have the infrastructure to transport and store the varieties that need to be kept in extreme cold.  We have to share- now that it looks like I'm likely to get to Eastern Europe I don't want to be the source of an infection on my visit- but it will take time.

[azucena]

Well what do you know West Virginia is leading the pack for vaccines.


www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/02/22/968829227/west-virginias-vaccination-rate-ranks-among-highest-in-world

[TheOtherMe]

Churches and other organizations who don't care if you are a member or not for this are getting the word out in Iowa that they are willing to make appointments online for people without online access.

I got an email from Walgreens that said I could use Uber for free.  Not this far out, I can't.

[TheOtherMe]

Last night on FB, I saw high school kids offering to make appointments for seniors without internet access.  The kids were from schools all over the state.  That makes me so proud of these kids and gives me hope for the future.

[chiver78]

my dad got his shot yesterday, my mom is scheduled for next Monday. both at Gillette Stadium, which is giving the Moderna version. that makes me feel better for my mom - the shellfish allergy runs on her side. it hasn't bitten her yet, but allergies can develop at any time. 

[wvugurl26]

From what I can tell, WV is doing well in administration because they are keeping it simple. It's flowing through county health departments with a single list in most cases. The governor also removed CVS and Walgreens from the equation because those chains don't have locations in many rural parts of the state.