Vaccinated

[Opti]

Feb 3, 2021 15:34:18 GMT -5 Sharon said:

I just got my second dose today,  Relieved and grateful.

How are you feeling? I got my second too.

[Deleted]

I'm having an ongoing conversation with a friend who insists her doctor told her she could never be vaccinated due to previous severe reactions to the tetanus vaccine. Given that she takes the annual flu vaccine, pneumonia vaccine and shingle vaccine without issue, I suspect her doctor said she should not take the Pfizer or Moderna but should wait on other Covid-19 vaccines with different composition to be authorized.  At some point, I'm going to have to consider if I can continue taking her to the grocery store weekly. I'm not absolutely essential on that; she has another friend who places WalMart orders and takes her there for curbside pickup.  But she likes me taking her to other stores for special stuff she wants. Yesterday she told me that another person takes her to different restaurants on Friday night so she can get a to-go order.  Cool, except she said he doesn't wear a mask ever because he's a Covid denier.  So if she chooses not to get an appropriate vaccine when available, and chooses to have weekly exposure to an unmasked and unvaccinated person, do I want to go there when DH and I haven't been able to get shots?  

[wvugurl26]

I went through this with my allergy doctor at my appointment in January. If you have had a prior serious allergic reaction to an injectable medication, the CDC stance is you need to be observed for 30 minutes after and to get the vaccine at a facility prepared to handle anaphylaxis. My doctor recommended that I take my epi pen with me when getting the vaccine. She was also comfortable with me waiting to get the vaccine until more data is available regarding potential allergic reactions. She was okay because I work from home and can continue to do so. Also I am at the bottom of my state's eligibility list so it's not like by waiting I am passing up a chance to get the vaccine.

[TheOtherMe]

The University of Iowa Clinic has opened up their registration to all Iowans, so I added my name to their list.

I struck out with both CVS and Walgreens this morning.

[countrygirl2]

I sat at the vaccination site for half an hour too, just to be careful.  I think for the second injection I will throw my epi pen in my purse.  The location I'm going to is at a hospital so that should be a good place.

[Ryan]

Feb 3, 2021 18:37:04 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Feb 3, 2021 16:45:27 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

So you have friends that are skirting the ethics.  If I knew this, they’d no longer be friends.  If they are willing to cheat here, where else?

I know several people that work for geisinger that haven’t stepped a foot inside work since last March. They all qualified through geisinger. Was I happy that people that work from home were eligible before my husband, who is out in public everyday? Absolutely not. But they followed the rules written by someone else

I rarely leave the house but I qualified and I got the vaccine. I also almost died from it last year so I don’t feel at all guilty about it. I followed the rules and signed myself up. Once my mom and I are vaccinated and the period passes die the antibodies to build, I can start bringing her here. She has dementia and is home alone 4 nights a week. She is also a diabetic so I call her to remind her to check her sugar and take her insulin. It in 6 weeks I can start bringing her here.

The state (at least my state) probably should've had the phases a bit more divided up, but maybe they didn't want to make things too confusing.  I think ours is over 65 and frontline essential workers.  People that I know that are getting vaccinated "ahead of the line" are borderline just playing dumb.  They might be in the transportation industry, but if you are not frontline, then it shouldn't matter what industry you are in.  If they do feel a twinge of guilt, then they'll justify it by saying that the state is sitting on vaccines and they just need to use them (who better than them).  

I mean, you really could make the argument that administrators at schools and fully remote teachers should not be considered "front line" since they are not interacting with students every day.  A less convincing argument, but one you could make if you really wanted to, is that schools with mitigation protocols (6') don't meet the definition either because they are able to maintain distance at work....something grocery store employees definitely can't avoid.

Not saying that it's right, but I know for sure that people are using this justification. 

[movingforward]

Feb 3, 2021 18:32:14 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

On of my friends just put on facebook that she got her mom vaccinated in Lancaster PA at a Rite Aid. My problem with that is she lives in Delaware! I love this person. Her mom is in her 80s and my friend has a severely disabled son. I’m not as mad at her as I am at Rite Aid for allowing this. She did a circumference of 2 hours from her house and basically stayed at her computer for days.

Even to come into PA you are supposed to quarantine or have a negative test. They did neither. They should have been turned away as soon as they saw her drivers license.

I don't know...I've got mixed feelings. At this point I want as many people vaccinated as possible, especially high risk people.

[Miss Tequila]

Feb 4, 2021 13:49:51 GMT -5 movingforward said:

Feb 3, 2021 18:32:14 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

On of my friends just put on facebook that she got her mom vaccinated in Lancaster PA at a Rite Aid. My problem with that is she lives in Delaware! I love this person. Her mom is in her 80s and my friend has a severely disabled son. I’m not as mad at her as I am at Rite Aid for allowing this. She did a circumference of 2 hours from her house and basically stayed at her computer for days.

Even to come into PA you are supposed to quarantine or have a negative test. They did neither. They should have been turned away as soon as they saw her drivers license.

I don't know...I've got mixed feelings. At this point I want as many people vaccinated as possible, especially high risk people.

I agree about getting as many as vaccinated as possible. But each state gets their allocations. I don’t want people taking our allotment of vaccines.

[TheOtherMe]

The clinics here have the problem not only with state lines, but county lines.  I'm at the intersection of Iowa, Wisconsin and Illinois.  The county and clinics have said in this county they can not vaccinate people from Wisconsin and Illinois.  They also will not vaccinate people at the clinics in my county who don't live in this county because the vaccines are being allocated by county.

[Ryan]

Feb 4, 2021 16:43:00 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

The clinics here have the problem not only with state lines, but county lines.  I'm at the intersection of Iowa, Wisconsin and Illinois.  The county and clinics have said in this county they can not vaccinate people from Wisconsin and Illinois.  They also will not vaccinate people at the clinics in my county who don't live in this county because the vaccines are being allocated by county.

I have heard that as well and that's why I cautioned my parents to try to get an appointment at the pharmacy.  They lived in 1 county for 70 years before moving 1 county over.  I think out of habit, they just registered at their OLD county's website to get a vaccine.  I reminded them after they told me that they don't live/work there any more, but they thought it would be fine.  Luckily they got an appointment at a local drug store so they were set.

I think around here you can register in other counties if you work there, but that might not be right.

[chiver78]

Feb 1, 2021 10:53:00 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Feb 1, 2021 10:48:13 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

There have not been enough people in that category to know the answer

You mean you don't know any.  I'm sure there are plenty of people that had COVID that have gotten the 2nd shot.    

why are you so combative when presented with science, fact, statistics? it's tiring.

*I'm a few days behind catching up on this thread, sorry if anyone else has already made a similar observation.

[chiver78]

Feb 3, 2021 19:27:13 GMT -5 wvugurl26 said:

I went through this with my allergy doctor at my appointment in January. If you have had a prior serious allergic reaction to an injectable medication, the CDC stance is you need to be observed for 30 minutes after and to get the vaccine at a facility prepared to handle anaphylaxis. My doctor recommended that I take my epi pen with me when getting the vaccine. She was also comfortable with me waiting to get the vaccine until more data is available regarding potential allergic reactions. She was okay because I work from home and can continue to do so. Also I am at the bottom of my state's eligibility list so it's not like by waiting I am passing up a chance to get the vaccine.

you know this,Im in the same boat as you. today, my sister got her first dose of the Moderna vax. the boarding school where she teaches is a residential treatment facility, and the entire faculty was taken care of today. she has the same allergies I do, and then some, and she is doing well hours later. slight headache and sore at injection point, but no other major issues. that's encouraging for me, when it finally gets to me.

[TheOtherMe]

Feb 4, 2021 17:35:25 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Feb 4, 2021 16:43:00 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

The clinics here have the problem not only with state lines, but county lines.  I'm at the intersection of Iowa, Wisconsin and Illinois.  The county and clinics have said in this county they can not vaccinate people from Wisconsin and Illinois.  They also will not vaccinate people at the clinics in my county who don't live in this county because the vaccines are being allocated by county.

I have heard that as well and that's why I cautioned my parents to try to get an appointment at the pharmacy.  They lived in 1 county for 70 years before moving 1 county over.  I think out of habit, they just registered at their OLD county's website to get a vaccine.  I reminded them after they told me that they don't live/work there any more, but they thought it would be fine.  Luckily they got an appointment at a local drug store so they were set.

I think around here you can register in other counties if you work there, but that might not be right.

In Iowa's ever changing world of covid, late yesterday, a person can now cross county lines to get a vaccine.

The governor is also going to set up one place where people can register for a vaccine and where people without computers can call.  She is so late with everything.  This should have been done months ago.  She and the citizens knew this was coming.

[TheOtherMe]

The clinic where I go did have a picture of a woman being vaccinated yesterday--on her 100th birthday!

I have no problem is they go by oldest to youngest.  No problem whatsoever.

[tractor]

My friends have figured out that if you go online starting at 3:30 am, they have been able to register for shots. I think the hospital releases slots during the early morning on a first come, first served basis. It’s crazy, but hopefully as time goes on things will get more structured.

My wife is still waiting, she is still in the classroom, but the school district hasn’t been able to come up with the vaccine.

[TheOtherMe]

I tried that but here Walgreens and CVS received leftover vaccines from long term care facilities that were not used.  I don't think appointments will open up until next week.

In my county, they only received their allocation of the Moderna vaccine.  They were to receive twice as many of the Pfizer vaccine but it has not arrived.  

That could be another reason all the appointments are filled.

[thyme4change]

My mom got an appointment for her second shot, and my dad drove her over, thinking they might just give his second one too. His appointment is 2 weeks from now - but it is a long process, including driving to and from the facility. They would not give him a shot. My son was hoping to get a tag-a-long shot, but I suspect that is less likely now.

[Ryan]

Feb 5, 2021 14:51:03 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

My mom got an appointment for her second shot, and my dad drove her over, thinking they might just give his second one too. His appointment is 2 weeks from now - but it is a long process, including driving to and from the facility. They would not give him a shot. My son was hoping to get a tag-a-long shot, but I suspect that is less likely now.

When was your dad's first shot?  Seems like 2 weeks early is a big difference, so not surprised they told him no...unless he scheduled it farther out than necessary.  

The pharmacies around here must be so sick of people coming in and asking them if they can get a shot.  My parents said when they went in, there were at last 4 people that walked up while they were there asking them if there were any openings today.  My mom was telling me that her friend goes in every day and asks the pharmacist every day if anything opened up and he tells her they have 24 vaccines and 24 appointments.  

[Ryan]

Feb 4, 2021 19:20:57 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Feb 1, 2021 10:53:00 GMT -5 Ryan said:

You mean you don't know any.  I'm sure there are plenty of people that had COVID that have gotten the 2nd shot.    

why are you so combative when presented with science, fact, statistics? it's tiring.

*I'm a few days behind catching up on this thread, sorry if anyone else has already made a similar observation.

I have to admit, I get a little annoyed sometimes with the way docs answer questions.  I think it's pretty clear that I was asking anecdotally how patients that had COVID react to the 2nd shot. If you don't know anyone that had COVID and got the 2nd shot, I would expect an answer like "I don't personally know anyone that had covid and got the 2nd shot" or maybe "I know a few, but their reactions were all different".  Instead he said "We don't know the answer to to that", which leads me to wonder if who the "we" are (science? the hospital?  his fellow doctors?) 

  

[TheOtherMe]

I think it's clear he is speaking about science.  It's also what is in the news.

[chiver78]

Feb 5, 2021 16:37:24 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Feb 4, 2021 19:20:57 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

why are you so combative when presented with science, fact, statistics? it's tiring.

*I'm a few days behind catching up on this thread, sorry if anyone else has already made a similar observation.

I have to admit, I get a little annoyed sometimes with the way docs answer questions.  I think it's pretty clear that I was asking anecdotally how patients that had COVID react to the 2nd shot. If you don't know anyone that had COVID and got the 2nd shot, I would expect an answer like "I don't personally know anyone that had covid and got the 2nd shot" or maybe "I know a few, but their reactions were all different".  Instead he said "We don't know the answer to to that", which leads me to wonder if who the "we" are (science? the hospital?  his fellow doctors?)   

I'm not a doctor, but I work in pharma. I don't take questions about meds/vax/etc as anecdotal and don't answer them lightly - when I can answer them. if I can't, I defer to those who can. I suspect pulmonarymd , The Walk of the Penguin Mich, NomoreDramaQ1015, and any other posters in various capacities in medicine/pharma/research operate the same way. I didn't read your question as an anecdote, given that we've been discussing COVID and the vaccines in technical detail fairly regularly around this board. maybe you should consider the source of the response, because you're coming across badly. it isn't just in this thread, either. you regularly bristle at facts, preferring to argue your gut feeling. if that's your thing, whatever. but you get awfully argumentative when anyone pushes back on you with documented proven fact. 

have a nice night, I'm not interested in continuing this. just felt the need to call that out. 

[pulmonarymd]

Feb 5, 2021 16:37:24 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Feb 4, 2021 19:20:57 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

why are you so combative when presented with science, fact, statistics? it's tiring.

*I'm a few days behind catching up on this thread, sorry if anyone else has already made a similar observation.

I have to admit, I get a little annoyed sometimes with the way docs answer questions.  I think it's pretty clear that I was asking anecdotally how patients that had COVID react to the 2nd shot. If you don't know anyone that had COVID and got the 2nd shot, I would expect an answer like "I don't personally know anyone that had covid and got the 2nd shot" or maybe "I know a few, but their reactions were all different".  Instead he said "We don't know the answer to to that", which leads me to wonder if who the "we" are (science? the hospital?  his fellow doctors?) 

  

Anecdotes are not data. If you ask me a medical question, I will answer it based on the best known data and facts. The way we wind up with using a medicine like hydroxychloroquine is when we rely on anecdotes. I have plenty of exposure to patients with this disease, my area dealt with a surge this spring that lasted 2 months, and have had an increase in cases since 11/1, although it is improving. We had 8 deaths from this in my ICCU the 2 weeks before Christmas. I sit in the committee dealing with the response to this disease. I know our vaccination statistics. What I posy about this is based on the best available information. If it is my opinion, I will label it as such. There is too much misinformation, misunderstanding, and gut feeling spread about this disease, so I do not wish to add to that.

[Ryan]

Feb 5, 2021 16:54:52 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Feb 5, 2021 16:37:24 GMT -5 Ryan said:

I have to admit, I get a little annoyed sometimes with the way docs answer questions.  I think it's pretty clear that I was asking anecdotally how patients that had COVID react to the 2nd shot. If you don't know anyone that had COVID and got the 2nd shot, I would expect an answer like "I don't personally know anyone that had covid and got the 2nd shot" or maybe "I know a few, but their reactions were all different".  Instead he said "We don't know the answer to to that", which leads me to wonder if who the "we" are (science? the hospital?  his fellow doctors?) 

  

Anecdotes are not data. If you ask me a medical question, I will answer it based on the best known data and facts. The way we wind up with using a medicine like hydroxychloroquine is when we rely on anecdotes. I have plenty of exposure to patients with this disease, my area dealt with a surge this spring that lasted 2 months, and have had an increase in cases since 11/1, although it is improving. We had 8 deaths from this in my ICCU the 2 weeks before Christmas. I sit in the committee dealing with the response to this disease. I know our vaccination statistics. What I posy about this is based on the best available information. If it is my opinion, I will label it as such. There is too much misinformation, misunderstanding, and gut feeling spread about this disease, so I do not wish to add to that.

Don't take yourself too seriously.  You can answer questions by saying "I don't know, haven't seen/heard enough to even be able to form an opinion".  I'm sure your patients aren't looking for you to cite a medical paper when they ask you a question. 

One of the things I've noticed about doctors in the news is that, even by saying they don't know, they plant some seed of doom in patients minds.  If they are asked if there will be long-term heart damage from COVID, if they really don't know they could say "Too early to tell, we'll just continue to monitor our patients like we always do".  Instead, some doctors will say "There could be long-term health consequences from having COVID and we may be dealing with this for decades, but again, it is really too early to tell".   So if it's too early to tell, why are you even speculating?  And if you are speculating, why is it always so negative?

I don't think doctors realize that people purposely downplay the severity of things to counterbalance the negativity that comes out of the doctors in the press.  

[stillmovingforward]

2nd shot is scheduled for this weekend. I can't wait!
Don't worry, i'll still mask up, social distance and all that. But dang, I'm excited!

[pulmonarymd]

Feb 5, 2021 17:24:31 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Feb 5, 2021 16:54:52 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Anecdotes are not data. If you ask me a medical question, I will answer it based on the best known data and facts. The way we wind up with using a medicine like hydroxychloroquine is when we rely on anecdotes. I have plenty of exposure to patients with this disease, my area dealt with a surge this spring that lasted 2 months, and have had an increase in cases since 11/1, although it is improving. We had 8 deaths from this in my ICCU the 2 weeks before Christmas. I sit in the committee dealing with the response to this disease. I know our vaccination statistics. What I posy about this is based on the best available information. If it is my opinion, I will label it as such. There is too much misinformation, misunderstanding, and gut feeling spread about this disease, so I do not wish to add to that.

Don't take yourself too seriously.  You can answer questions by saying "I don't know, haven't seen/heard enough to even be able to form an opinion".  I'm sure your patients aren't looking for you to cite a medical paper when they ask you a question. 

One of the things I've noticed about doctors in the news is that, even by saying they don't know, they plant some seed of doom in patients minds.  If they are asked if there will be long-term heart damage from COVID, if they really don't know they could say "Too early to tell, we'll just continue to monitor our patients like we always do".  Instead, some doctors will say "There could be long-term health consequences from having COVID and we may be dealing with this for decades, but again, it is really too early to tell".   So if it's too early to tell, why are you even speculating?  And if you are speculating, why is it always so negative?

I don't think doctors realize that people purposely downplay the severity of things to counterbalance the negativity that comes out of the doctors in the press.  

We do this because patients do not listen to the information provided, and like to think "it will not happen to me". Look at this board. People complain all the time about changing recommendations regarding COVID. If we downplay it and we are wrong, we get criticized. If it is better than we state, everyone is relieved. After a year of this, there has been nothing about this disease that has been better than we have stated. People will not wear a fucking mask, and god knows how many Super Bowl parties we will see.  Treating people based on the best case scenario will lead to a disaster in many cases. And if you don't like my or my fellow physician responses, ignore them. Trump sure did. That worked out well. don't you think? 

[Ryan]

Feb 5, 2021 17:34:39 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Feb 5, 2021 17:24:31 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Don't take yourself too seriously.  You can answer questions by saying "I don't know, haven't seen/heard enough to even be able to form an opinion".  I'm sure your patients aren't looking for you to cite a medical paper when they ask you a question. 

One of the things I've noticed about doctors in the news is that, even by saying they don't know, they plant some seed of doom in patients minds.  If they are asked if there will be long-term heart damage from COVID, if they really don't know they could say "Too early to tell, we'll just continue to monitor our patients like we always do".  Instead, some doctors will say "There could be long-term health consequences from having COVID and we may be dealing with this for decades, but again, it is really too early to tell".   So if it's too early to tell, why are you even speculating?  And if you are speculating, why is it always so negative?

I don't think doctors realize that people purposely downplay the severity of things to counterbalance the negativity that comes out of the doctors in the press.  

We do this because patients do not listen to the information provided, and like to think "it will not happen to me". Look at this board. People complain all the time about changing recommendations regarding COVID. If we downplay it and we are wrong, we get criticized. If it is better than we state, everyone is relieved. After a year of this, there has been nothing about this disease that has been better than we have stated. People will not wear a fucking mask, and god knows how many Super Bowl parties we will see.  Treating people based on the best case scenario will lead to a disaster in many cases. And if you don't like my or my fellow physician responses, ignore them. Trump sure did. That worked out well. don't you think? 

I think the only thing that they botched was the mask wearing recommendations.  Not sure who signed off on that, China had plenty of experience with this and they were all wearing masks.  

So it sounds like you make it the worst case scenario because people don't listen.  Do you think people don't listen because it's always the worst case scenario?  I think your approach works better with a patient one on one where you can see that they are not taking it seriously so you have to lay it on.  It doesn't work when you're communicating with the public because if you're always overplaying it, you'll lose trust.  

[pulmonarymd]

Feb 5, 2021 18:00:48 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Feb 5, 2021 17:34:39 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

We do this because patients do not listen to the information provided, and like to think "it will not happen to me". Look at this board. People complain all the time about changing recommendations regarding COVID. If we downplay it and we are wrong, we get criticized. If it is better than we state, everyone is relieved. After a year of this, there has been nothing about this disease that has been better than we have stated. People will not wear a fucking mask, and god knows how many Super Bowl parties we will see.  Treating people based on the best case scenario will lead to a disaster in many cases. And if you don't like my or my fellow physician responses, ignore them. Trump sure did. That worked out well. don't you think? 

I think the only thing that they botched was the mask wearing recommendations.  Not sure who signed off on that, China had plenty of experience with this and they were all wearing masks.  

So it sounds like you make it the worst case scenario because people don't listen.  Do you think people don't listen because it's always the worst case scenario?  I think your approach works better with a patient one on one where you can see that they are not taking it seriously so you have to lay it on.  It doesn't work when you're communicating with the public because if you're always overplaying it, you'll lose trust.  

It is not based in worst case scenario but on a harm reduction basis. Believing the best case vs worst case scenario leads to major negative consequences. Just look at our current situation. Trump kept up a positive drumbeat and acted on that. We would be in a much better situation if we acted to reduce harm.

And enough with the masks. Mistakes will always be made in a pandemic. The way this spreads was not well understood in early spring. Once better information was obtained, recommendations change. Our treatment has evolved as well. Or do you think we should have known all of that at the outset as well. As to China, as always, they were not transparent. If the were more forthcoming with information, some of our early mistakes could have been avoided. If we were willing to listen, a big unknown

[thyme4change]

Feb 5, 2021 16:21:14 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Feb 5, 2021 14:51:03 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

My mom got an appointment for her second shot, and my dad drove her over, thinking they might just give his second one too. His appointment is 2 weeks from now - but it is a long process, including driving to and from the facility. They would not give him a shot. My son was hoping to get a tag-a-long shot, but I suspect that is less likely now.

When was your dad's first shot?  Seems like 2 weeks early is a big difference, so not surprised they told him no...unless he scheduled it farther out than necessary.  

The pharmacies around here must be so sick of people coming in and asking them if they can get a shot.  My parents said when they went in, there were at last 4 people that walked up while they were there asking them if there were any openings today.  My mom was telling me that her friend goes in every day and asks the pharmacist every day if anything opened up and he tells her they have 24 vaccines and 24 appointments.  

They both got their first shots Jan 12th. It was purely a schedule/ability to get an appointment thing. Too bad they don't have twosies appointments for people who both fit the qualifications.

[Sharon]

Feb 3, 2021 18:55:54 GMT -5 Opti said:

Feb 3, 2021 15:34:18 GMT -5 Sharon said:

I just got my second dose today,  Relieved and grateful.

How are you feeling? I got my second too.

My arm started hurting sooner then when I got the first shot and was far more painful.  The totally weird thing was how much my armpit hurt.  It was very painful.  A co-worker who was in the same time group as I was said she ached all over, ran a fever of about 100. 

Both of us had our shots at 8:30 Wed morning and had the most reaction on Thursday.

[Ryan]

Feb 5, 2021 18:23:19 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Feb 5, 2021 18:00:48 GMT -5 Ryan said:

I think the only thing that they botched was the mask wearing recommendations.  Not sure who signed off on that, China had plenty of experience with this and they were all wearing masks.  

So it sounds like you make it the worst case scenario because people don't listen.  Do you think people don't listen because it's always the worst case scenario?  I think your approach works better with a patient one on one where you can see that they are not taking it seriously so you have to lay it on.  It doesn't work when you're communicating with the public because if you're always overplaying it, you'll lose trust.  

It is not based in worst case scenario but on a harm reduction basis. Believing the best case vs worst case scenario leads to major negative consequences. Just look at our current situation. Trump kept up a positive drumbeat and acted on that. We would be in a much better situation if we acted to reduce harm.

And enough with the masks. Mistakes will always be made in a pandemic. The way this spreads was not well understood in early spring. Once better information was obtained, recommendations change. Our treatment has evolved as well. Or do you think we should have known all of that at the outset as well. As to China, as always, they were not transparent. If the were more forthcoming with information, some of our early mistakes could have been avoided. If we were willing to listen, a big unknown

If people know that you're always giving them the worst case scenario, then they leave it up to themselves to find the middle ground.  There's nothing wrong with making conservative recommendation for prevention, but I don't care for these doctors speculating on the long term damage of a disease when they clearly can't know that.  It's always something like "It could be really bad, life will never be the same, these people are basically screwed, but we really don't know".  They just drop these little nuclear bombs and then fly off.  

I don't know what you're talking about with the masks though, people in Asia have been wearing them for a long time.  I remembered seeing it for the first time during SARS.  Geez, in the last 5 years they would give you a mask to wear out of the doctors office if you were sick.  Why would they specifically recommend AGAINST them?  I have an e-comm business where we import from China and my supplier told me when it first arrived here that I should be wearing a mask, eye protection, and to remember not to touch my face.  It's not like the info wasn't out there.  I heard that they didn't want a run on surgical masks so they downplayed their importance, not sure if that's true but obviously that doesn't exactly instill trust if that was the case.