djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,450
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 9, 2022 12:45:56 GMT -5
bills- to put it succinctly and sincerely:
i find your tolerance of this human piece of excrement terrifying.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,450
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 9, 2022 12:49:48 GMT -5
bills- regarding my earlier post, you don't know what evidence exists. only what has been shown. you have already said you would NOT prosecute him, so i guess it really doesn't matter what evidence is presented, does it?
the evidence very well may show him directly connected to the seditious conspiracy. this investigation is working it's way up the ladder. you can't argue with that, it is plain as day. next up are Trump's inner circle. until THEY are held to account, you can't really say how high this goes, and what UNKNOWN KNOWNS there are.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,647
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Oct 9, 2022 12:50:53 GMT -5
I think not prosecuting is the best way to advance the health of the Republic. well, that certainly goes hand-in-hand with your notion that he should be allowed to run for president again. i give you points for consistency. i think there is a grave risk in subjecting the republic to another test, bills. in 2015, i would have been up to the proposition. but given what happened in 2016, and what happened in 2021, and what is likely to happen this year, i am not. why are you? I think we need to pass the test instead of running from it.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,450
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 9, 2022 12:54:14 GMT -5
well, that certainly goes hand-in-hand with your notion that he should be allowed to run for president again. i give you points for consistency. i think there is a grave risk in subjecting the republic to another test, bills. in 2015, i would have been up to the proposition. but given what happened in 2016, and what happened in 2021, and what is likely to happen this year, i am not. why are you? I think we need to pass the test instead of running from it. as an engineer, i believe in failure analysis. what failure analysis does is to take a small sample and test it to failure, using a piece of equipment like a tensile tester. from this, you can learn whether the structure is safe. what you are proposing is the opposite. you are suggesting that we build a bridge using that questionable bolt. and i think that the risk to life, liberty, and property does not merit that risk, at all.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,647
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Oct 9, 2022 12:54:45 GMT -5
I see his bs as a safety valve. You may be the only one. I will say it is good that you do not see it as a continued call-to-arms as most of your neighbors probably do.... It is a call to arms but I don't think it will move beyond the call unless he is convicted and jailed.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,450
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 9, 2022 12:55:05 GMT -5
PS- particularly in light of the fact that we ALREADY know the bolt is faulty. i could have added that, but it makes a more congenial argument to assume that the bolt has NOT been tested, yet.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,450
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 9, 2022 12:55:48 GMT -5
You may be the only one. I will say it is good that you do not see it as a continued call-to-arms as most of your neighbors probably do.... It is a call to arms but I don't think it will move beyond the call unless he is convicted and jailed. don't you? interesting. i think precisely the opposite. one of us will be wrong. let's check back in 25 months.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,647
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Oct 9, 2022 13:00:03 GMT -5
bills- regarding my earlier post, you don't know what evidence exists. only what has been shown. you have already said you would NOT prosecute him, so i guess it really doesn't matter what evidence is presented, does it? the evidence very well may show him directly connected to the seditious conspiracy. this investigation is working it's way up the ladder. you can't argue with that, it is plain as day. next up are Trump's inner circle. until THEY are held to account, you can't really say how high this goes, and what UNKNOWN KNOWNS there are. Agreed. I indicated it was pure conjecture that there is not adequate evidence to directly tie Trump to sedition.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,450
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 9, 2022 13:03:22 GMT -5
bills- regarding my earlier post, you don't know what evidence exists. only what has been shown. you have already said you would NOT prosecute him, so i guess it really doesn't matter what evidence is presented, does it? the evidence very well may show him directly connected to the seditious conspiracy. this investigation is working it's way up the ladder. you can't argue with that, it is plain as day. next up are Trump's inner circle. until THEY are held to account, you can't really say how high this goes, and what UNKNOWN KNOWNS there are. Agreed. I indicated it was pure conjecture that there is not adequate evidence to directly tie Trump to sedition. no, you said that evidence DOES NOT EXIST. that is not at all the same thing as saying evidence HAS NOT BEEN PRESENTED. i would agree with the latter. i fervently disagree with the first assertion, as i said in my previous post.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,647
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Oct 9, 2022 13:06:10 GMT -5
I think we need to pass the test instead of running from it. as an engineer, i believe in failure analysis. what failure analysis does is to take a small sample and test it to failure, using a piece of equipment like a tensile tester. from this, you can learn whether the structure is safe. what you are proposing is the opposite. you are suggesting that we build a bridge using that questionable bolt. and i think that the risk to life, liberty, and property does not merit that risk, at all. I see the process as the "tensile tester" for our Republic.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,647
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Oct 9, 2022 13:08:04 GMT -5
PS- particularly in light of the fact that we ALREADY know the bolt is faulty. i could have added that, but it makes a more congenial argument to assume that the bolt has NOT been tested, yet. 2020 showed the bolt wax not faulty.
|
|
pulmonarymd
Junior Associate
Joined: Feb 12, 2020 17:40:54 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
Member is Online
|
Post by pulmonarymd on Oct 9, 2022 13:08:29 GMT -5
Being afraid of the consequences of indicting Trump is not the way out of this. If he had a hand in it, he needs to face justice for his actions. Consequences be damned at this point. Apparently 1/3 of this country does not believe in the nature of our government or its rules. They will find another reason to rise up if they wish to, or another, more effective demagogue appears. We need to prosecute Trump to forestall the latter, and be prepared for the consequences. Acting as if we are afraid of their reaction will do nothing but embolden them.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,450
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 9, 2022 13:09:41 GMT -5
as an engineer, i believe in failure analysis. what failure analysis does is to take a small sample and test it to failure, using a piece of equipment like a tensile tester. from this, you can learn whether the structure is safe. what you are proposing is the opposite. you are suggesting that we build a bridge using that questionable bolt. and i think that the risk to life, liberty, and property does not merit that risk, at all. I see the process as the "tensile tester" for our Republic. the process is fine with men (and women) of character. it is absolutely in jeopardy with tyrants and thieves. Trump is a very bad bolt. you put him in AGAIN, and the bridge will fail. we have both discussed this, and i think we agree.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,450
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 9, 2022 13:11:38 GMT -5
PS- particularly in light of the fact that we ALREADY know the bolt is faulty. i could have added that, but it makes a more congenial argument to assume that the bolt has NOT been tested, yet. 2020 showed the bolt wax not faulty. i didn't mention 2020 in my response for a reason. i somewhat disagree with the assertion, for the record. i think that the Republic was brought within literally a few hairs of failure. and i think that the organizers of the coup have learned from that fact, and will retest it. the Republic has become weaker in the last year against this attack. if it is tested again, in the same manner, i believe it will fail.
|
|
pulmonarymd
Junior Associate
Joined: Feb 12, 2020 17:40:54 GMT -5
Posts: 7,461
Member is Online
|
Post by pulmonarymd on Oct 9, 2022 13:12:54 GMT -5
PS- particularly in light of the fact that we ALREADY know the bolt is faulty. i could have added that, but it makes a more congenial argument to assume that the bolt has NOT been tested, yet. 2020 showed the bolt wax not faulty. If you do not believe the risk is greater now than it was before, you are naive. Too many Republicans are genuflecting at Trump's knees. We need representatives of character and honor. The Republican party has proven it has neither. I would agree with you if at least some of the house voted for the election reform act, and we didn't have almost 300 election deniers running. Many of them will win, and we will have a far larger number in government now than we do. Many of those in now are just cowardly, not believers.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,647
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Oct 9, 2022 13:13:57 GMT -5
I see the process as the "tensile tester" for our Republic. the process is fine with men (and women) of character. it is absolutely in jeopardy with tyrants and thieves. And we need to know which the majority of our nation's voters support.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,647
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Oct 9, 2022 13:15:20 GMT -5
2020 showed the bolt wax not faulty. i didn't mention 2020 in my response for a reason. i somewhat disagree with the assertion, for the record. i think that the Republic was brought within literally a few hairs of failure. and i think that the organizers of the coup have learned from that fact, and will retest it. the Republic has become weaker in the last year against this attack. if it is tested again, in the same manner, i believe it will fail. So be it.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,450
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 9, 2022 13:16:12 GMT -5
PS- particularly in light of the fact that we ALREADY know the bolt is faulty. i could have added that, but it makes a more congenial argument to assume that the bolt has NOT been tested, yet. 2020 showed the bolt was not faulty. uh, no. 2020 absolutely showed that the bolt was faulty.the tester was not faulty. i will agree with that. the tester worked. but now, what the GOP is busy doing, is tampering with the tester. and i think they will succeed. so, if the bolt is tested again, it will end up in the bridge, and the BRIDGE will fail. that is my assertion.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,450
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 9, 2022 13:16:46 GMT -5
the process is fine with men (and women) of character. it is absolutely in jeopardy with tyrants and thieves. And we need to know which the majority of our nation's voters support. we already know that. as you say, that was shown in 2020. but there is no evidence whatsoever that will matter in 2024.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,450
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 9, 2022 13:17:42 GMT -5
i didn't mention 2020 in my response for a reason. i somewhat disagree with the assertion, for the record. i think that the Republic was brought within literally a few hairs of failure. and i think that the organizers of the coup have learned from that fact, and will retest it. the Republic has become weaker in the last year against this attack. if it is tested again, in the same manner, i believe it will fail. So be it. as a Turkish citizen, i can go along with that. as a US citizen, that is hard to stomach.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,450
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 9, 2022 13:18:29 GMT -5
2020 showed the bolt wax not faulty. If you do not believe the risk is greater now than it was before, you are naive. Too many Republicans are genuflecting at Trump's knees. We need representatives of character and honor. The Republican party has proven it has neither. I would agree with you if at least some of the house voted for the election reform act, and we didn't have almost 300 election deniers running. Many of them will win, and we will have a far larger number in government now than we do. Many of those in now are just cowardly, not believers. this/\
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,647
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Oct 9, 2022 13:20:40 GMT -5
as a Turkish citizen, i can go along with that. as a US citizen, that is hard to stomach. As a US citizen, it is hard for me to stomach as well.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,450
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 9, 2022 13:22:28 GMT -5
incidentally, he can run from jail. so i don't view "putting him in jail" as a solution. i view "barring him from office" as one. and i KNOW we disagree on that.
another solution is for him to go off and die somewhere. but i am not counting on that.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,647
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Oct 9, 2022 13:30:58 GMT -5
incidentally, he can run from jail. so i don't view "putting him in jail" as a solution. i view "barring him from office" as one. and i KNOW we disagree on that. another solution is for him to go off and die somewhere. but i am not counting on that. I did think the Senate should have convicted and barred him from office. I don't see where the judicial branch has the power to bar him.
|
|
tallguy
Senior Associate
Joined: Apr 2, 2011 19:21:59 GMT -5
Posts: 14,266
|
Post by tallguy on Oct 9, 2022 13:46:55 GMT -5
You may be the only one. I will say it is good that you do not see it as a continued call-to-arms as most of your neighbors probably do.... It is a call to arms but I don't think it will move beyond the call unless he is convicted and jailed. We are ostensibly a nation of laws above all. If we fail to indict, convict, and imprison (or preferably execute) this man and his "army" we have already failed as a nation of both ideals and laws. History has many times shown that appeasers of tyrants do not do well. Please don't be one.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,450
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 9, 2022 13:50:53 GMT -5
incidentally, he can run from jail. so i don't view "putting him in jail" as a solution. i view "barring him from office" as one. and i KNOW we disagree on that. another solution is for him to go off and die somewhere. but i am not counting on that. I did think the Senate should have convicted and barred him from office. I don't see where the judicial branch has the power to bar him. the 14th amendment, section three, certainly SHOULD apply here, but would probably have to be litigated. of course, since this is an action that comes from the judicial branch, it WILL be litigated. therefore, we are likely to have an answer to this question, most likely to come from the SCOTUS.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,450
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Oct 9, 2022 13:53:15 GMT -5
It is a call to arms but I don't think it will move beyond the call unless he is convicted and jailed. We are ostensibly a nation of laws above all. If we fail to indict, convict, and imprison (or preferably execute) this man and his "army" we have already failed as a nation of both ideals and laws. History has many times shown that appeasers of tyrants do not do well. Please don't be one. we are faced with the high probability that our Republic will fail not due to action, but inaction, TG.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,647
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Oct 9, 2022 13:55:28 GMT -5
Being afraid of the consequences of indicting Trump is not the way out of this. If he had a hand in it, he needs to face justice for his actions. Consequences be damned at this point. Apparently 1/3 of this country does not believe in the nature of our government or its rules. They will find another reason to rise up if they wish to, or another, more effective demagogue appears. We need to prosecute Trump to forestall the latter, and be prepared for the consequences. Acting as if we are afraid of their reaction will do nothing but embolden them. I don't think that prosecuting Trump will forestall another demagogue from appearing. The voters rejecting Trump is a better path to take.
|
|
NastyWoman
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 20:50:37 GMT -5
Posts: 14,558
|
Post by NastyWoman on Oct 9, 2022 13:58:23 GMT -5
prosecutorial discretion should be in favor of defending the Republic. pulling a Nixon here would be a tragic error. I think not prosecuting is the best way to advance the health of the Republic. And I see not prosecuting as the equivalent to covering up a gangrenous wound with a bandaid and hope the patient will somehow recover because you don't want to deal with/treat reality.
|
|
tallguy
Senior Associate
Joined: Apr 2, 2011 19:21:59 GMT -5
Posts: 14,266
|
Post by tallguy on Oct 9, 2022 14:03:35 GMT -5
Being afraid of the consequences of indicting Trump is not the way out of this. If he had a hand in it, he needs to face justice for his actions. Consequences be damned at this point. Apparently 1/3 of this country does not believe in the nature of our government or its rules. They will find another reason to rise up if they wish to, or another, more effective demagogue appears. We need to prosecute Trump to forestall the latter, and be prepared for the consequences. Acting as if we are afraid of their reaction will do nothing but embolden them. I don't think that prosecuting Trump will forestall another demagogue from appearing. The voters rejecting Trump is a better path to take. The question of whether it will forestall another demagogue from appearing HAS NO BEARING on whether to prosecute Trump. Prosecuting Trump is necessary to maintain WHO WE ARE. The voters rejecting the NEXT demagogue to appear is the preferred path to take THEN, but prosecuting and imprisoning or executing Trump is the NECESSARY path to take NOW.
|
|