WAP

[chiver78]

Sept 5, 2020 20:23:02 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 5, 2020 20:05:11 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

I'll admit I'm catching up on the thread now, don't know if this was asked already. 

why does it matter why the sample came to be? there's a Fastball song (The Way) that samples a spin of the radio dial. others, like Eminem's Sing for the Moment, sample everything about another longstanding music staple (Aerosmith's Dream On). Vanilla Ice 'sampled' heavily from Queen for Ice Ice, Baby. not sure how or why it is a judgment on an artist as to the original they sampled for their own work. 

What does the sample bring to the (turn)table? It was suggested that the song is about a liberated female sexuality. Prostitution, on the other hand, is a business transaction. I found the male voice starting and ending the song declaring the women in the song were whores to negatively impact the power of a message of female sexuality being socially acceptable. Others offered some good counter points.

good questions. I'll admit I haven't actually listened to the song yet. Cardi B isn't really in my musical wheelhouse, and I've been a bit distracted with moving. taking a couple hours tonight to unwind, and I picked this thread as one to read    my question was more toward your comment - "That let's us know where it came from but not why it came." why does it matter where it came from or why? the scrutiny should be on the original. the sampling artist is picking that piece for a reason....which isn't always a positive spin. 

[Deleted]

Cardi B isn’t even the first female rapper to have raunchy lyrics. I don’t feel like wracking my brain trying to remember who and what songs, but Lil Kim helped pave the way for Cardi B and she wasn’t a sweet little demure rapper. Trina had a popular song called B R Right and the first lyrics are “I want my ass smacked, legs wide, front back side to side, p@$$# wet slip and slide...”

Don’t get me started with lyrics to songs by male artists. I can go all the way back to an old Bootsy Collins song “I’d Rather Be With You”, where at the end of it, he says something like “I’m gon put my love in your eye“ and when he performed it in concert, there was no doubt as to what he was talking about. That was decades before rap was even a thing.

But then people had issues with Madonna singing Like A Virgin. And as I mentioned before, George Michael’s I Want Your Sex. And neither song was really explicit.

The American public is just weird.

[billisonboard]

Sept 5, 2020 20:32:28 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Sept 5, 2020 20:23:02 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

What does the sample bring to the (turn)table? It was suggested that the song is about a liberated female sexuality. Prostitution, on the other hand, is a business transaction. I found the male voice starting and ending the song declaring the women in the song were whores to negatively impact the power of a message of female sexuality being socially acceptable. Others offered some good counter points.

good questions. I'll admit I haven't actually listened to the song yet. Cardi B isn't really in my musical wheelhouse, and I've been a bit distracted with moving. taking a couple hours tonight to unwind, and I picked this thread as one to read    my question was more toward your comment - "That let's us know where it came from but not why it came." why does it matter where it came from or why? the scrutiny should be on the original. the sampling artist is picking that piece for a reason....which isn't always a positive spin. 

It certainly is a shame that you weren't here earlier to let us know we shouldn't have bothered to have a good discussion on this topic.

[empress of self-improvement]

Sept 5, 2020 20:26:36 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Sept 5, 2020 7:44:48 GMT -5 empress of self-improvement said:

Bah. He's already corrupted. Should see him at Friday Night trivia! 😉

when does that start back up? 

This upcoming Friday the 11th, actually.

[jerseygirl]

Sept 6, 2020 8:29:34 GMT -5 empress of self-improvement said:

Sept 5, 2020 20:26:36 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

when does that start back up? 

This upcoming Friday the 11th, actually.

What or where is this Trivia game?

[chiver78]

Sept 5, 2020 22:15:45 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 5, 2020 20:32:28 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

good questions. I'll admit I haven't actually listened to the song yet. Cardi B isn't really in my musical wheelhouse, and I've been a bit distracted with moving. taking a couple hours tonight to unwind, and I picked this thread as one to read    my question was more toward your comment - "That let's us know where it came from but not why it came." why does it matter where it came from or why? the scrutiny should be on the original. the sampling artist is picking that piece for a reason....which isn't always a positive spin. 

It certainly is a shame that you weren't here earlier to let us know we shouldn't have bothered to have a good discussion on this topic.

feel free to scroll on past my comments if you don't like them. 

[chiver78]

Sept 6, 2020 11:41:12 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Sept 6, 2020 8:29:34 GMT -5 empress of self-improvement said:

This upcoming Friday the 11th, actually.

What or where is this Trivia game?

it's called Friday Night Owls, there's a link in the "affiliate boards" subsection of this place. it's another ProBoards forum hosted by Icelandic Woman. some folks from here, other folks from just there, and it's just generally a good time. Icey typically starts the trivia around 9pm for me here in MA, she's on Mountain Time. 

[billisonboard]

Sept 6, 2020 14:16:32 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Sept 5, 2020 22:15:45 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

It certainly is a shame that you weren't here earlier to let us know we shouldn't have bothered to have a good discussion on this topic.

feel free to scroll on past my comments if you don't like them. 

When directly quoted, I respond as you have responded to me.

[tractor]

Missy Elliot was one of the first black female singers who used descriptive lyrics in her songs. I’m sure she broke a lot of ground for the rap artists of today. I listen to her music when I work out.

[chiver78]

Sept 6, 2020 15:04:35 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 6, 2020 14:16:32 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

feel free to scroll on past my comments if you don't like them. 

When directly quoted, I respond as you have responded to me.

and you didn't actually answer the question posed. so why bother? 

[billisonboard]

Sept 6, 2020 15:11:22 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Sept 6, 2020 15:04:35 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

When directly quoted, I respond as you have responded to me.

and you didn't actually answer the question posed. so why bother? 

You're right. I started to but then decided not to recreate the flow of the discussion that get us to my comment. It is there to be read if anyone coming into the conversation is willing.

[justme]

Sept 5, 2020 20:23:02 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Sept 5, 2020 20:05:11 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

I'll admit I'm catching up on the thread now, don't know if this was asked already. 

why does it matter why the sample came to be? there's a Fastball song (The Way) that samples a spin of the radio dial. others, like Eminem's Sing for the Moment, sample everything about another longstanding music staple (Aerosmith's Dream On). Vanilla Ice 'sampled' heavily from Queen for Ice Ice, Baby. not sure how or why it is a judgment on an artist as to the original they sampled for their own work. 

What does the sample bring to the (turn)table? It was suggested that the song is about a liberated female sexuality. Prostitution, on the other hand, is a business transaction. I found the male voice starting and ending the song declaring the women in the song were whores to negatively impact the power of a message of female sexuality being socially acceptable. Others offered some good counter points.

Personally I think women having the choice to freely choose to do anything with their sexuality including selling it (freely selling it, no coercion or trafficking) is a part of liberating female sexuality. A woman selling it shouldn't have any more of a stigma than the man buying, but right now men have WAY less stigma. And criminal charges too.

Men have been selling women's sexuality for centuries. Hell a lot still are. Why can't women? I mean really your options are to stop all men from selling women's sexuality or getting to a point where no one bats an eye when a woman freely does it.

The false dichotomy of because most men are struck dumb by a pair of tits that any woman that doesn't cover them is falling into the trap of make gaze vs doing it for herself is just stupid and not surprisingly made by males. But that's a rabbit hole that I'd have to spend a lot more typing out.

But I just can't get in a tizzy a woman choosing to use the word whore in a song that is a positive light when there are countless songs about by countless men that are revered for their songs that use the word whore to demean and insult women and paint them in a negative light.

[billisonboard]

Sept 6, 2020 15:57:17 GMT -5 justme said:

Sept 5, 2020 20:23:02 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

What does the sample bring to the (turn)table? It was suggested that the song is about a liberated female sexuality. Prostitution, on the other hand, is a business transaction. I found the male voice starting and ending the song declaring the women in the song were whores to negatively impact the power of a message of female sexuality being socially acceptable. Others offered some good counter points.

Personally I think women having the choice to freely choose to do anything with their sexuality including selling it (freely selling it, no coercion or trafficking) is a part of liberating female sexuality. A woman selling it shouldn't have any more of a stigma than the man buying, but right now men have WAY less stigma. And criminal charges too.

Men have been selling women's sexuality for centuries. Hell a lot still are. Why can't women? I mean really your options are to stop all men from selling women's sexuality or getting to a point where no one bats an eye when a woman freely does it.

The false dichotomy of because most men are struck dumb by a pair of tits that any woman that doesn't cover them is falling into the trap of make gaze vs doing it for herself is just stupid and not surprisingly made by males. But that's a rabbit hole that I'd have to spend a lot more typing out.

But I just can't get in a tizzy a woman choosing to use the word whore in a song that is a positive light when there are countless songs about by countless men that are revered for their songs that use the word whore to demean and insult women and paint them in a negative light.

My question was on how it was structurally used in the song. I wouldn't have thought anything of it if it had been used within the main lyrics delivered by females. It was that it was a male voice that uses it. (I get it is a "sample" from a previously released recording but don't see how that is important.) With it starting and ending the song, it felt like it was allowing a male to define the women in the song. The fact that the official video has the women scurrying around a corner and out of sight as it is said reinforces it in my mind. Them standing strong with a defiant look at the end would have been powerful to me.

The rest of the song? As an old guy, I thought it was cute. Must have been fun to write and perform.

[Apple]

Not a fan of the style of music (and, therefore, the song, but it has nothing to do with the lyrics).  90s me just wants the radios to dub it with "warm apple pie" for the less-in-your-face version that still has all the innuendo...

[thyme4change]

Sept 5, 2020 16:23:42 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

I met a guy who dropped out of seminary (is that what Catholics call Priest school?) He had an interesting take on priests. He said that many are encouraged to start making the decision around puberty, and the ones that lean that direction are the ones who are most confused and have the biggest doubts about their sexuality. Moving towards celibacy gives them a path to kinda 'halt' their sexual development (no exploration, etc) and that makes many priests weird inside.

That guy's face looks that story.

BTW- the guy who told me this left seminary and is now living happily with his husband. He works as a gay advocate.

[swamp]

Sept 8, 2020 8:35:17 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Sept 5, 2020 16:23:42 GMT -5 moon/Laura said:

I met a guy who dropped out of seminary (is that what Catholics call Priest school?) He had an interesting take on priests. He said that many are encouraged to start making the decision around puberty, and the ones that lean that direction are the ones who are most confused and have the biggest doubts about their sexuality. Moving towards celibacy gives them a path to kinda 'halt' their sexual development (no exploration, etc) and that makes many priests weird inside.

That guy's face looks that story.

BTW- the guy who told me this left seminary and is now living happily with his husband. He works as a gay advocate.

Watch the movie Spotlight and it explains it very well. 

[thyme4change]

Sept 8, 2020 8:47:06 GMT -5 swamp said:

Sept 8, 2020 8:35:17 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

I met a guy who dropped out of seminary (is that what Catholics call Priest school?) He had an interesting take on priests. He said that many are encouraged to start making the decision around puberty, and the ones that lean that direction are the ones who are most confused and have the biggest doubts about their sexuality. Moving towards celibacy gives them a path to kinda 'halt' their sexual development (no exploration, etc) and that makes many priests weird inside.

That guy's face looks that story.

BTW- the guy who told me this left seminary and is now living happily with his husband. He works as a gay advocate.

Watch the movie Spotlight and it explains it very well. 

That was a good movie. I was happy when it won best picture. There were a lot of good movies that year.

[Icelandic Woman]

Sept 6, 2020 8:29:34 GMT -5 empress of self-improvement said:

Sept 5, 2020 20:26:36 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

when does that start back up? 

This upcoming Friday the 11th, actually.

Yes trivia is back tonight! 7pm mountain time. See you then. And you too chiver78.

[Icelandic Woman]

I had to look the song up too. Sorry not my taste. Prince's Cream is more my style.

[PK Bucko]

Shocking music always has two goals. To shock and more importantly, to make money. Actually it's just one goal. To make money. 

I don't listen to this kind of music. Not my style. But if she makes a million dollars doing it, then more power to her. 

[imawino]

Perhaps her intention was all about empowered women and that was the demographic this song was aimed at.  Anecdotally, I see people playing this song every weekend, and none of them are in that demographic.  At all.


We have a boat, and it is on a marina that has a very popular party spot restaurant/bar.  Our slip is right next to the pier where people tie up their boats to go in (you can arrive by land or water).  Anyhoodle, multiple times per day or evening,  boats roll up blasting this song at an ear-splitting volume, because the occupants want to ensure you are impressed by how cool they are.  These boats are always, and I mean always, flying a Trump flag and filled with middle aged or older white people - mostly men who are smirking, throwing a shaka or devil horns and gyrating unappealingly.  Sure, it's possible some empowered woman riding in the boat (never driving) has forced them to put it on, but it seems unlikely. To be fair, they also sometimes play gems like Eating P@$$y and Kicking Ass, some repulsive David Allen Coe crap or anything that uses the N-word a lot.  


So, I'm not some pearl clutcher, but I hate this fucking song.  (I would have hated it anyway, it's not my musical genre....it's just extra super special hate now)

[justme]

That's so weird that it's trump fans blasting it since Fox News is responsible for most of the pearl clutchers over the song. 

I bet the guys just hear and are like yay this is a good song. 

[saveinla]

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-14/cardi-b-tops-billboard-s-brand-new-global-songs-chart?eml=2020September14/5101342/6011159&etsubid=175623279

For more than six decades, musicians have competed with one another to reach the top of Billboard’s Hot 100 songs chart. The competition is about to get a lot more intense.



Billboard magazine will release a largely streaming-based tally of the most popular songs in the world Monday, the first time the publication has compiled a list that measures the entire world at once. Rapper Cardi B will lead the charts in its first week with her new song “WAP,” followed by the South Korean boy band BTS with “Dynamite.”

[weltschmerz]

I hate that song, but I don't believe in censorship.


ncac.org/news/blog/turn-that-down-40-banned-and-censored-songs#:~:text=4.,make%20some%20girl%E2%80%9D%20was%20censored.