TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Apr 30, 2020 10:12:30 GMT -5
There are attorneys advising people in Iowa that there is a provision in unemployment rules if you quit because your work place is unsafe and offering to represent them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 10:49:53 GMT -5
In both Iowa and Nebraska, if you don't go back to work or back to the office, you will not receive unemployment. An extremely difficult decision for people to make and it makes me sad that people have to make this decision. This is the thing I think a lot of people don't understand. Once your state says tattoo parlors can open, then they either must open or their staff lose their UI. That's just crappy because NO ONE needs a damn tattoo during a pandemic. Nor to bowl, go to a movie theater, etc... I think it's different if you own a very small business you man yourself and want to take that risk. It's entirely another thing to tell clearly non-essential businesses to open so states can save money on UI. I still say a massive wave is coming in a few weeks due to all this premature opening.
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oped
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Post by oped on Apr 30, 2020 10:52:23 GMT -5
In both Iowa and Nebraska, if you don't go back to work or back to the office, you will not receive unemployment. An extremely difficult decision for people to make and it makes me sad that people have to make this decision. This is the thing I think a lot of people don't understand. Once your state says tattoo parlors can open, then they either must open or their staff lose their UI. That's just crappy because NO ONE needs a damn tattoo during a pandemic. Nor to bowl, go to a movie theater, etc... I think it's different if you own a very small business you man yourself and want to take that risk. It's entirely another thing to tell clearly non-essential businesses to open so states can save money on UI. I still say a massive wave is coming in a few weeks due to all this premature opening. That isn't exactly true. A business doesn't have to open. But if they do and call you back.. then the employee has much less choice. I'm not sure aid for the business continues if they can open. But that is a different thing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 10:59:52 GMT -5
In Oregon, when they tell hair salons they can open, people who work for them and also self-employed/1099 hair cutters either return to work or lose UI. If you own your own salon and decide not to risk it, you lose your UI. It's happening all over the country, already. And, it's BS.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 30, 2020 11:03:16 GMT -5
... This is the thing I think a lot of people don't understand. Once your state says tattoo parlors can open, then they either must open or their staff lose their UI. ... I can find plenty of links that say if you are offered work, you have to accept it or lose your unemployment benefits. I can't find any source that says business owners are required to reopen their business if the government says they can open.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 30, 2020 11:09:09 GMT -5
There are attorneys advising people in Iowa that there is a provision in unemployment rules if you quit because your work place is unsafe and offering to represent them. Constructive discharge.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Apr 30, 2020 11:11:05 GMT -5
The office I work in is closed until at least June 1, and depending on how things progress locally we may remain closed longer. However, our county is also recommending all non-essential employers to encourage their employees to telework pretty much until there is a reliable treatment that can avoid a hospital stay and/or a vaccine.
But, like other areas there are plenty of businesses that are opening that I'm not sure should be. Primarily things like gyms and massage parlors.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 30, 2020 11:14:30 GMT -5
In Oregon, when they tell hair salons they can open, people who work for them and also self-employed/1099 hair cutters either return to work or lose UI. If you own your own salon and decide not to risk it, you lose your UI. It's happening all over the country, already. And, it's BS. To make sure I understand what you are saying: A person owns a restaurant that was shut down by state government. The workers from that restaurant are laid off and file/receive unemployment. The restaurant owner decides they aren't going to deal with trying to reopen even though the state says they can and, in fact, does not reopen. Anyone who worked at that restaurant is no longer eligible for unemployment benefits. Is that what you are saying?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 11:17:51 GMT -5
... This is the thing I think a lot of people don't understand. Once your state says tattoo parlors can open, then they either must open or their staff lose their UI. ... I can find plenty of links that say if you are offered work, you have to accept it or lose your unemployment benefits. I can't find any source that says business owners are required to reopen their business if the government says they can open. Businesses who don't open also lose any support they are given. It appears this is a grey area, but the locals I have talked to who have small businesses have been told by the state's UI folks that when the state governor says they "can" work they will be kicked off of UI. "As governors allow more businesses and retail stores to come back online, employers will begin calling back workers who had been laid off or furloughed and were eligible for unemployment benefits. If they refuse the offer to return to work out of fear for their health amid the pandemic, federal guidelines dictate that they will lose the aid that many have only just started to receive." And, the Feds are moving to make it so if you are forced back to work and get sick no one can sue: "Republicans in Congress are also seeking to expand liability protections for businesses to shield them from coronavirus-related lawsuits — a push that, if successful, could reduce the incentive for some employers to worry about workers’ health before reopening. Public health experts and labor advocates fear the result is that opening the economy will drive Americans back to work in search of a paycheck but leave them vulnerable to catching the coronavirus and fueling a second wave of the disease. The dilemma faces everyone from meatpacking workers at plants that Trump ordered to reopen this week to restaurant employees in states like Georgia that have been at the forefront of the push to get the country running again. “They will be terrified, and in many cases they will be correct to be terrified,” said David Michaels, who led the Occupational Safety and Health Administration during the Obama administration. “It’s not fair for them to be asked to choose between their income and their health.” " www.politico.com/news/2020/04/29/unemployment-coronavirus-safety-223216
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2020 11:25:24 GMT -5
In Oregon, when they tell hair salons they can open, people who work for them and also self-employed/1099 hair cutters either return to work or lose UI. If you own your own salon and decide not to risk it, you lose your UI. It's happening all over the country, already. And, it's BS. To make sure I understand what you are saying: A person owns a restaurant that was shut down by state government. The workers from that restaurant are laid off and file/receive unemployment. The restaurant owner decides they aren't going to deal with trying to reopen even though the state says they can and, in fact, does not reopen. Anyone who worked at that restaurant is no longer eligible for unemployment benefits. Is that what you are saying? I belong to a group of self-employed folks with small businesses. Many are massage therapists and salon owners. They all report being told by UI that once approved under the CARES Act (since none of us have been approved yet, they just opened up the system 2 days ago!) when the state gov. allows massage therapists and salons to open, then they will systematically be removed from UI. Because, if they don't open up it becomes a choice and they are "refusing" work, thus ineligible for UI. I don't know what happens to your staff if you own a restaurant and choose not to open it. I don't think anyone knows, it appears to still be a gray area.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 30, 2020 11:49:32 GMT -5
To make sure I understand what you are saying: A person owns a restaurant that was shut down by state government. The workers from that restaurant are laid off and file/receive unemployment. The restaurant owner decides they aren't going to deal with trying to reopen even though the state says they can and, in fact, does not reopen. Anyone who worked at that restaurant is no longer eligible for unemployment benefits. Is that what you are saying? I belong to a group of self-employed folks with small businesses. Many are massage therapists and salon owners. They all report being told by UI that once approved under the CARES Act (since none of us have been approved yet, they just opened up the system 2 days ago!) when the state gov. allows massage therapists and salons to open, then they will systematically be removed from UI. Because, if they don't open up it becomes a choice and they are "refusing" work, thus ineligible for UI. I don't know what happens to your staff if you own a restaurant and choose not to open it. I don't think anyone knows, it appears to still be a gray area. Not sure why it would be gray. It is simply something that happened all the time in the past. It is only different now in scale. Business owners have shut their doors over the years for a lot of reasons. Some for lack of customers, some retire, some just don't want to run it anymore. Their employees have gone on unemployment while looking for a new job. The job search requirement might be a question. The State of Washington has suspended the requirement for all.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Apr 30, 2020 12:38:54 GMT -5
There are attorneys advising people in Iowa that there is a provision in unemployment rules if you quit because your work place is unsafe and offering to represent them. The number of times I got sick dropped like a rock when I started working from home. I also have a lot less allergy trouble when I'm working in a clean environment. Most offices have filthy HVAC systems and commonly touched surfaces that are rarely sanitized. Yet employers seem to get off on making their employees come into the office, to do jobs they could do from home, knowing full well that they are making their employees sick. I had to quit a job because I knew the allergy trouble their sick building was causing would go from profoundly annoying to life threatening once Spring came. I've seen plenty of older/frail employees land in the hospital because they picked up an office bug they wouldn't have gotten if they had been allowed to work from home. This is really nothing new. It's just affecting more people now. There is something to be said for letting some of these service companies stay closed for a little while longer. A lot of people just aren't going to go to those places until there is a vaccine or an effective treatment. For example, I've started doing haircuts at home, and we've gone from shopping 3 times a week to once every 2 weeks, so the impulse buying is lowered. I won't even think about getting my nails done or a massage until I've been vaccinated. Even though it's highly unlikely that any of my family members will die of coronavirus, getting sick enough to have permanent lung damage is a definite possibility. It's too bad that the unemployment rules are written that way.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Apr 30, 2020 17:10:40 GMT -5
Has anyone seen the pictures of all the people protesting across the country. Good Lord, we may reach herd immunity whether we wanted it or not.. most aren't wearing masks and definitely not social distancing.
I certainly have no problem with people peacefully protesting something. I am happy to live in a country where that is allowed, but these people really don't seem to care if they get the virus or not. This is why I stated that there is no way we will social distance until 2022. People are protesting after 6 weeks...
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oped
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Post by oped on Apr 30, 2020 18:12:28 GMT -5
Because the administration is pushing protests... pushing opening... doing everything they can to keep $ from people.
If they were giving universal income during the distancing, coming on every day to say the progress they were making... real progress that is can be documented... giving updates on what we are learning and what that means, being clear and truthful... they might be willing to keep going.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 30, 2020 18:31:46 GMT -5
Has anyone seen the pictures of all the people protesting across the country. Good Lord, we may reach heard immunity whether we wanted it or not.. most aren't wearing masks and definitely not social distancing.
I certainly have no problem with people peacefully protesting something. I am happy to live in a country where that is allowed, but these people really don't seem to care if they get the virus or not. This is why I stated that there is no way we will social distance until 2022. People are protesting after 6 weeks...
I feel like if you want to storm the capital fine, but then you have to live in a tent city like Occupy Wallstreet for at least two weeks. Why should you have the right to infect other people? I get there are a lot of people hurting right now and I feel for them. I also understand that this whole thing is not to prevent people from catching it but to slow it down enough that we can hopefully help the very sick in an efficient manner. THIS is not going to help either situation. Now you're going to possibly take yourself AND your hair stylist out with you. How did that save her business?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 30, 2020 21:34:18 GMT -5
To make sure I understand what you are saying: A person owns a restaurant that was shut down by state government. The workers from that restaurant are laid off and file/receive unemployment. The restaurant owner decides they aren't going to deal with trying to reopen even though the state says they can and, in fact, does not reopen. Anyone who worked at that restaurant is no longer eligible for unemployment benefits. Is that what you are saying? I belong to a group of self-employed folks with small businesses. Many are massage therapists and salon owners. They all report being told by UI that once approved under the CARES Act (since none of us have been approved yet, they just opened up the system 2 days ago!) when the state gov. allows massage therapists and salons to open, then they will systematically be removed from UI. Because, if they don't open up it becomes a choice and they are "refusing" work, thus ineligible for UI. I don't know what happens to your staff if you own a restaurant and choose not to open it. I don't think anyone knows, it appears to still be a gray area. But a self-employed individual was never eligible for unemployment in the past. I agree with it when the government shuts them down. Once the government removes the shut down order, it is up to the self-employed individual to decide if they want to go back or not. But no, the taxpayers should not be on the hook because someone decides to sit home instead of working. My DF is self-employed and has been working since this started. I am working too but I am not exposed on a daily basis like he is. He lives it and even he doesn’t believe the government should just pay him to sit home
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 30, 2020 23:13:08 GMT -5
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on May 1, 2020 1:39:24 GMT -5
Has anyone seen the pictures of all the people protesting across the country. Good Lord, we may reach heard immunity whether we wanted it or not.. most aren't wearing masks and definitely not social distancing.
I certainly have no problem with people peacefully protesting something. I am happy to live in a country where that is allowed, but these people really don't seem to care if they get the virus or not. This is why I stated that there is no way we will social distance until 2022. People are protesting after 6 weeks...
I feel like if you want to storm the capital fine, but then you have to live in a tent city like Occupy Wallstreet for at least two weeks. Why should you have the right to infect other people? I get there are a lot of people hurting right now and I feel for them. I also understand that this whole thing is not to prevent people from catching it but to slow it down enough that we can hopefully help the very sick in an efficient manner. THIS is not going to help either situation. Now you're going to possibly take yourself AND your hair stylist out with you. How did that save her business? I guess it depends on the situation. In my state, there are large counties that have had less than 50 cases and no deaths, and my state has a very high number of people getting tested. Why should areas that have barely been touched see their business destroyed and their economies wrecked just because New York got hit hard? On the other hand, considering how bad Michigan is doing, I can't for the life of me understand why those protesters were getting out of their cars and mingling. Stay in your damn car. Though I have to say, not allowing people to buy home improvement supplies was a mistake. Letting a bunch of unemployed guys who are used to working with their hands do stuff around the house is an excellent way to keep them out of trouble.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 1, 2020 8:17:07 GMT -5
I am in a part of a state that hasn't been hit hard. There are calls that we should open up things, I guess so that people from areas that have been hit hard and are still shut down can come visit.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 1, 2020 8:39:17 GMT -5
I am in a part of a state that hasn't been hit hard. There are calls that we should open up things, I guess so that people from areas that have been hit hard and are still shut down can come visit. The virus respects borders, didn't you know.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 1, 2020 8:53:02 GMT -5
I am in a part of a state that hasn't been hit hard. There are calls that we should open up things, I guess so that people from areas that have been hit hard and are still shut down can come visit. The virus respects borders, didn't you know. city, county, state, and national. Not to mention personal boundaries as well. <- image of virus attempted to get in
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 1, 2020 9:04:52 GMT -5
I am in a part of a state that hasn't been hit hard. There are calls that we should open up things, I guess so that people from areas that have been hit hard and are still shut down can come visit. The virus respects borders, didn't you know. Governor Reynolds of Iowa sure seems to think so. The virus and the people who have it are totally respectful of boarders and won't leave their county to go to a neighboring county. I doubt Iowa will end up like NYC because of our demographics but we are still climbing to the tune of 400-500 cases PER DAY. How is that "slowing down?"
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 1, 2020 9:05:32 GMT -5
I am in a part of a state that hasn't been hit hard. There are calls that we should open up things, I guess so that people from areas that have been hit hard and are still shut down can come visit. The virus respects borders, didn't you know. I know it can move from one place to another, but the key is flattening the curve, not total prevention. If one area has excess medical resources, keeping it locked down because another area has more cases is going to keep all of us on lockdown for 2 years. When we talk about re-opening carefully and thoughtfully, it makes sense to open up areas that have fewer cases and excess treatment capacity.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 1, 2020 9:15:34 GMT -5
The virus respects borders, didn't you know. I know it can move from one place to another, but the key is flattening the curve, not total prevention. If one area has excess medical resources, keeping it locked down because another area has more cases is going to keep all of us on lockdown for 2 years. When we talk about re-opening carefully and thoughtfully, it makes sense to open up areas that have fewer cases and excess treatment capacity. Agree, but it needs to be done in a logical fashion, based on science. When NYC was going crazy, I didn't see other areas of the country welcoming refugees fleeing the contagion. Having people leave areas with widespread community spread to areas of low risk does not keep infections down for long.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 1, 2020 9:17:44 GMT -5
The virus respects borders, didn't you know. I know it can move from one place to another, but the key is flattening the curve, not total prevention. If one area has excess medical resources, keeping it locked down because another area has more cases is going to keep all of us on lockdown for 2 years. When we talk about re-opening carefully and thoughtfully, it makes sense to open up areas that have fewer cases and excess treatment capacity. That does make sense. I wonder where those areas might be. We are an area with fewer cases but minimal medical/treatment capacity so don't qualify.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 1, 2020 9:21:08 GMT -5
I am in a part of a state that hasn't been hit hard. There are calls that we should open up things, I guess so that people from areas that have been hit hard and are still shut down can come visit. And that's the problem. In my state, the northern part is rural..a mix of folks that stay year round and folks that vacation. The problem is that the folks that stay year round are old. They also live in counties with like one hospital with 25 ICU beds for 14000 people. Some of them absolutely don't want city folk coming up. But, I'm sure they'll bristle at being told they have to stay in isolation for a really long time... So, what's the solution?
And it's not testing and all that. We need to move forward assuming there never will be adequate testing. We need to move forward assuming governments at all levels will fail us.
ETA: Maybe the solution is controlled/strategic Covid-19 parties to get to herd immunity very quickly (or at least quicker than another 18 months) for those that aren't at risk. Chicken pox parties used to be a thing when I was little.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 1, 2020 9:27:13 GMT -5
The virus respects borders, didn't you know. I know it can move from one place to another, but the key is flattening the curve, not total prevention. If one area has excess medical resources, keeping it locked down because another area has more cases is going to keep all of us on lockdown for 2 years. When we talk about re-opening carefully and thoughtfully, it makes sense to open up areas that have fewer cases and excess treatment capacity. But how do you define excess capacity? Right now my county is fine because we don't have a lot of cases, but we've seen how well a lot of people cooperate with the rules. If we have a lot of people coming over from closed counties because they just can't wait to get a hair cut we are't going to have excess treatment for very long. This only works if the closed counties don't allow anyone to leave which I don't see how that is enforceable. I don't expect us to be totally locked down for 2 years, nor do I think Iowa is going to be NYC any time soon. Given what is happening in our meat packing plants though I don't feel it would kill the state to wait another couple of weeks to see what damage radiates out from that. An approved county may not be approved in a couple weeks if they got people who traveled there before all those cases were discovered. I would think opening, shutting down, opening, shutting down would be harder on businesses than riding it out a little bit longer.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 1, 2020 9:29:57 GMT -5
I am in a part of a state that hasn't been hit hard. There are calls that we should open up things, I guess so that people from areas that have been hit hard and are still shut down can come visit. And that's the problem. In my state, the northern part is rural..a mix of folks that stay year round and folks that vacation. The problem is that the folks that stay year round are old. They also live in counties with like one hospital with 25 ICU beds for 14000 people. Some of them absolutely don't want city folk coming up. But, I'm sure they'll bristle at being told they have to stay in isolation for a really long time... So, what's the solution?
And it's not testing and all that. We need to move forward assuming there never will be adequate testing. We need to move forward assuming governments at all levels will fail us.
I could respect people saying it is our turn to "take the hit" so we should open up. But I only hear we don't have cases so it is safe if we do it.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on May 1, 2020 9:33:05 GMT -5
The virus respects borders, didn't you know. I know it can move from one place to another, but the key is flattening the curve, not total prevention. If one area has excess medical resources, keeping it locked down because another area has more cases is going to keep all of us on lockdown for 2 years. When we talk about re-opening carefully and thoughtfully, it makes sense to open up areas that have fewer cases and excess treatment capacity. You also have to consider how quickly things can change. There's one area in my state, now, in particular that is dealing with Covid outbreaks in meat processing facilities. The county that has the meat processing facility went from having 25% of the number of cases my county had to twice the number of cases my county has in less than week.
I would think there's a point where open and closing things up on the turn of a dime causes more harm then good.
Because of the outbreak, our state numbers are continuing to climb. We're going to hit the number of deaths were were supposed to have in August by mid-May...maybe even earlier.
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oped
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Post by oped on May 1, 2020 9:51:07 GMT -5
ETA: Maybe the solution is controlled/strategic Covid-19 parties to get to herd immunity very quickly (or at least quicker than another 18 months) for those that aren't at risk. Chicken pox parties used to be a thing when I was little. I'm sorry but we don't know who's at risk... we don't understand enough yet. We don't know long term implications. Hell we don't even know if there is long term immunity in recovery.
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