Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Apr 14, 2020 19:17:41 GMT -5
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Apr 14, 2020 19:22:00 GMT -5
Is anybody actually surprised by this?
If they go the certificate route, I can see large numbers of people deliberately trying to get sick so that they can eventually be able to keep a roof over their heads.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Apr 14, 2020 19:52:04 GMT -5
Yeah, I can't see it happening. People would rather take their chances with the virus.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 14, 2020 19:55:36 GMT -5
From the article
The study researchers say they are aware that such prolonged distancing, even if intermittent, would likely have "profoundly negative economic, social, and educational consequences."
They hope their research will help identify likely trajectories of the epidemic under alternative approaches, identify complementary ways to fight it, and to spur further thinking about ways to get the pandemic under control.
So even the researchers themselves think this is unlikely to be sustainable.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Apr 14, 2020 21:11:37 GMT -5
Is anybody actually surprised by this? If they go the certificate route, I can see large numbers of people deliberately trying to get sick so that they can eventually be able to keep a roof over their heads. That happened during the yellow fever epidemic
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Apr 14, 2020 21:17:12 GMT -5
Singapore is doing something called a circuit breaker, lock down for month, open then lock down again as needed t.co/XUSIUz07Wu?amp=1
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Apr 14, 2020 21:48:41 GMT -5
Bogota Columbia is doing something unique. On Even days women can go out to grocery store, etc and men on odd days
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Apr 15, 2020 13:00:23 GMT -5
They have to find a therapy that keeps people out of the hospital, ICU and reduce mortality rates. That is the only way that we don't have to keep up this level of social distancing longer term.
Aggressive contract tracing and effective therapies could get us probably 90% pre-COVID normal. Without either of those things, I think we'll pretty much be in an endless cycle of shutdowns, and we won't be able to have any sort of group gatherings of more than about 10 people until their is a vaccine. And there so many jobs that depends on groups of more than 10 being able to gather. I know mine does.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2020 13:19:43 GMT -5
There is gonna be some level of guess n check with this for quite a while.
Actually a good thing nations are taking different approaches, hopefully we can learn from the best outcomes and deploy ourselves.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Apr 15, 2020 14:22:58 GMT -5
There is gonna be some level of guess n check with this for quite a while. Actually a good thing nations are taking different approaches, hopefully we can learn from the best outcomes and deploy ourselves. That requires believing someone can actually do something better than us.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 15, 2020 16:43:55 GMT -5
There is gonna be some level of guess n check with this for quite a while. Actually a good thing nations are taking different approaches, hopefully we can learn from the best outcomes and deploy ourselves. That requires believing someone can actually do something better than us. Yep. US needs to check their ego at the door.
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on Apr 15, 2020 16:50:29 GMT -5
I believe whenever money involved, and it looks like it could be free, people will do anything to be certain they will get their fair share. If playing sick is a way to keep the money rolling in with little effort, they'll be standing in line.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 15, 2020 16:58:45 GMT -5
I believe whenever money involved, and it looks like it could be free, people will do anything to be certain they will get their fair share. If playing sick is a way to keep the money rolling in with little effort, they'll be standing in line. If they are able to stand in line, they ain't sick enough to get money.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Apr 15, 2020 16:59:15 GMT -5
That requires believing someone can actually do something better than us. Yep. US needs to check their ego at the door. I would think that the actual professionals who understand how new procedures are developed and evaluated would be fairly open to accepting successful practices from elsewhere. That's just my observation from the outside of the clinical world and could, of course, be mistaken. It mostly seems to be the ignorant politicians and other ill-informed gatekeepers such as some religious leaders who get in the way. And it doesn't help that there is a narcissistic toddler currently at the helm.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Apr 15, 2020 17:12:28 GMT -5
For physicians, we will accept well done studies from anywhere. All we want is to improve the care of patients. Now is it perfect, no, people have their own turf wars. But, being open to information from anywhere is the sign of an intelligent mind. If we want to open the economy with the best chance of success, learning from others is the fastest and best way. But you have to accept that you may not be the smartest person around.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 15, 2020 17:13:18 GMT -5
Yep. US needs to check their ego at the door. I would think that the actual professionals who understand how new procedures are developed and evaluated would be fairly open to accepting successful practices from elsewhere. That's just my observation from the outside of the clinical world and could, of course, be mistaken. It mostly seems to be the ignorant politicians and other ill-informed gatekeepers such as some religious leaders who get in the way. And it doesn't help that there is a narcissistic toddler currently at the helm. Yes and no. Shifting paradigms in the medical establishment is not easy. Look at how long it took one doctor to convince the medical establishment that ulcers could be caused by H. pylori. I do think that they have gotten more flexible though. I know that I spent a good 20 years of my career looking how oral disease can have an impact upon general health, and there are still some doctors who don’t give oral health a second thought. The bigger problem is that convincing those that hold the power what they need to do.....especially when science isn’t especially a high priority in decision making.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2020 12:33:13 GMT -5
There is gonna be some level of guess n check with this for quite a while. Actually a good thing nations are taking different approaches, hopefully we can learn from the best outcomes and deploy ourselves. That requires believing someone can actually do something better than us. Appears Taiwan knocked their response out of the park: "As a result, the island established a specialized Central Epidemic Command Center, which could be activated to coordinate a response in the event of an outbreak. In a sign of how Taiwan wanted to get ahead of the coronavirus, the center was activated on January 20, a day before the island even confirmed its first infection. Because its authority was already established, the center was able to implement stringent measures without being slowed down by lengthy political processes. It put more than 120 action items into place within three weeks, according to a list published by the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA). That list alone could serve as a manual on exactly what to do during an outbreak." www.cnn.com/2020/04/16/world/coronavirus-response-lessons-learned-intl/index.html
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Apr 16, 2020 15:47:03 GMT -5
That requires believing someone can actually do something better than us. Appears Taiwan knocked their response out of the park: "As a result, the island established a specialized Central Epidemic Command Center, which could be activated to coordinate a response in the event of an outbreak. In a sign of how Taiwan wanted to get ahead of the coronavirus, the center was activated on January 20, a day before the island even confirmed its first infection. Because its authority was already established, the center was able to implement stringent measures without being slowed down by lengthy political processes. It put more than 120 action items into place within three weeks, according to a list published by the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA). That list alone could serve as a manual on exactly what to do during an outbreak." www.cnn.com/2020/04/16/world/coronavirus-response-lessons-learned-intl/index.htmlThere is something to be said for handling this at the national level, since unlike China, we have free movement between states. The way things are structured now, states have the right to ignore the federal government's help and advice and do insanely stupid things -- like the southern states not doing a lockdown at all and New York delaying their lockdown. But it is going to require legislation that would give the feds, and whoever is occupying the White House, more power.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Apr 16, 2020 16:03:20 GMT -5
Appears Taiwan knocked their response out of the park: "As a result, the island established a specialized Central Epidemic Command Center, which could be activated to coordinate a response in the event of an outbreak. In a sign of how Taiwan wanted to get ahead of the coronavirus, the center was activated on January 20, a day before the island even confirmed its first infection. Because its authority was already established, the center was able to implement stringent measures without being slowed down by lengthy political processes. It put more than 120 action items into place within three weeks, according to a list published by the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA). That list alone could serve as a manual on exactly what to do during an outbreak." www.cnn.com/2020/04/16/world/coronavirus-response-lessons-learned-intl/index.htmlThere is something to be said for handling this at the national level, since unlike China, we have free movement between states. The way things are structured now, states have the right to ignore the federal government's help and advice and do insanely stupid things -- like the southern states not doing a lockdown at all and New York delaying their lockdown. But it is going to require legislation that would give the feds, and whoever is occupying the White House, more power. The opposite side of this is that if WA and CA had waited for the federal government to take action, we would be looking like NY right now.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Apr 16, 2020 16:11:42 GMT -5
There is something to be said for handling this at the national level, since unlike China, we have free movement between states. The way things are structured now, states have the right to ignore the federal government's help and advice and do insanely stupid things -- like the southern states not doing a lockdown at all and New York delaying their lockdown. But it is going to require legislation that would give the feds, and whoever is occupying the White House, more power. The opposite side of this is that if WA and CA had waited for the federal government to take action, we would be looking like NY right now. I can't for the life of me understand why the leaders in NYC were encouraging people to go to crowded public events. Considering how vulnerable they are, they should have locked down weeks before anybody else did. But they aren't the only ones. It's not hard to find video of local leaders and members of congress, all though January, and sometimes well into February, saying that the virus isn't a big deal if you're healthy and that you should be out and about. And they don't all belong to one party.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 16, 2020 16:38:49 GMT -5
Bogota Columbia is doing something unique. On Even days women can go out to grocery store, etc and men on odd days How does that help?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 16, 2020 16:46:39 GMT -5
Bogota Columbia is doing something unique. On Even days women can go out to grocery store, etc and men on odd days How does that help? it is a virus, not cooties.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 16, 2020 16:54:26 GMT -5
The opposite side of this is that if WA and CA had waited for the federal government to take action, we would be looking like NY right now. I can't for the life of me understand why the leaders in NYC were encouraging people to go to crowded public events. Considering how vulnerable they are, they should have locked down weeks before anybody else did. But they aren't the only ones. It's not hard to find video of local leaders and members of congress, all though January, and sometimes well into February, saying that the virus isn't a big deal if you're healthy and that you should be out and about. And they don't all belong to one party. Along with local leaders and members of congress as you mentioned, president trump held a number of political rallies in January and February. trump also seemed to find some time for some rounds of golf too. Trump visited a golf course on Jan. 18 and 19, Feb. 1 and 15, and March 7 and 8. All of these golf outings took place at Trump International Golf Course in West Palm Beach, Florida. Trump also hosted rallies on Jan. 9 (Ohio), 14 (Wisconsin), 28 (New Jersey) 30 (Iowa), and on Feb. 10 (New Hampshire), 19 (Arizona), 20 (Colorado), 21 (Nevada), and 28 (South Carolina) Did Trump Golf, Hold Rallies After Learning About COVID-19 Threat?.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Apr 16, 2020 17:07:29 GMT -5
I can't for the life of me understand why the leaders in NYC were encouraging people to go to crowded public events. Considering how vulnerable they are, they should have locked down weeks before anybody else did. But they aren't the only ones. It's not hard to find video of local leaders and members of congress, all though January, and sometimes well into February, saying that the virus isn't a big deal if you're healthy and that you should be out and about. And they don't all belong to one party. Along with local leaders and members of congress as you mentioned, president trump held a number of political rallies in January and February. trump also seemed to find some time for some rounds of golf too. Trump visited a golf course on Jan. 18 and 19, Feb. 1 and 15, and March 7 and 8. All of these golf outings took place at Trump International Golf Course in West Palm Beach, Florida. Trump also hosted rallies on Jan. 9 (Ohio), 14 (Wisconsin), 28 (New Jersey) 30 (Iowa), and on Feb. 10 (New Hampshire), 19 (Arizona), 20 (Colorado), 21 (Nevada), and 28 (South Carolina) Did Trump Golf, Hold Rallies After Learning About COVID-19 Threat?. Yes, but you don't like Trump. So if he makes the same mistake that everyone else is making, he's evil and the others are merely mistaken. That's how things work here.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Apr 16, 2020 17:09:47 GMT -5
Along with local leaders and members of congress as you mentioned, president trump held a number of political rallies in January and February. trump also seemed to find some time for some rounds of golf too. Trump visited a golf course on Jan. 18 and 19, Feb. 1 and 15, and March 7 and 8. All of these golf outings took place at Trump International Golf Course in West Palm Beach, Florida. Trump also hosted rallies on Jan. 9 (Ohio), 14 (Wisconsin), 28 (New Jersey) 30 (Iowa), and on Feb. 10 (New Hampshire), 19 (Arizona), 20 (Colorado), 21 (Nevada), and 28 (South Carolina) Did Trump Golf, Hold Rallies After Learning About COVID-19 Threat?. Yes, but you don't like Trump. So if he makes the same mistake that everyone else is making, he's evil and the others are merely mistaken. That's how things work here. You seemed to have left trump out of your original post so it was necessary to add trump who should lead by example but never has.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Apr 16, 2020 17:35:19 GMT -5
Along with local leaders and members of congress as you mentioned, president trump held a number of political rallies in January and February. trump also seemed to find some time for some rounds of golf too. Trump visited a golf course on Jan. 18 and 19, Feb. 1 and 15, and March 7 and 8. All of these golf outings took place at Trump International Golf Course in West Palm Beach, Florida. Trump also hosted rallies on Jan. 9 (Ohio), 14 (Wisconsin), 28 (New Jersey) 30 (Iowa), and on Feb. 10 (New Hampshire), 19 (Arizona), 20 (Colorado), 21 (Nevada), and 28 (South Carolina) Did Trump Golf, Hold Rallies After Learning About COVID-19 Threat?. Yes, but you don't like Trump. So if he makes the same mistake that everyone else is making, he's evil and the others are merely mistaken. That's how things work here. Again he is president and in charge. It happened on his watch. He gets the blame. That is what happens when you are in charge. A CEO of a Fortune 500 company gets the blame, even if he could not prevent something, why shouldn’t trump
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2020 19:43:40 GMT -5
Bogota Columbia is doing something unique. On Even days women can go out to grocery store, etc and men on odd days How does that help? I assume it cuts down on the number of people out every day. I suppose it could just end up with twice as many of whatever sex out on the day they're allowed but there are a lot of people that are going out every single day or going to the store as a couple when one could just as easily go.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 16, 2020 19:56:36 GMT -5
So....someone made a comment about social distancing and made it sound like they were keeping their distance from the people in their home. I sleep in the same bed as tmmy DH, and I hug my kids at least every day. Am I supposed to be staying 6 feet away from them?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 16, 2020 20:27:17 GMT -5
So....someone made a comment about social distancing and made it sound like they were keeping their distance from the people in their home. I sleep in the same bed as tmmy DH, and I hug my kids at least every day. Am I supposed to be staying 6 feet away from them? Considering we don't live in a mansion it's a tad hard for me to stay 6 week away from my three family members unless I move out. Hmmm....
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Apr 16, 2020 20:47:49 GMT -5
So....someone made a comment about social distancing and made it sound like they were keeping their distance from the people in their home. I sleep in the same bed as tmmy DH, and I hug my kids at least every day. Am I supposed to be staying 6 feet away from them? Considering we don't live in a mansion it's a tad hard for me to stay 6 week away from my three family members unless I move out. Hmmm.... Same. I guess we could assign everyone a time slot to use the kitchen, and otherwise, everyone stays in their room. We can talk standing on opposite ends of the hallway.
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