pulmonarymd
Junior Associate
Joined: Feb 12, 2020 17:40:54 GMT -5
Posts: 7,365
Member is Online
|
Post by pulmonarymd on May 1, 2020 20:57:50 GMT -5
I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around these people that just do not care... I've always said we can't live in lockdown forever but I consider myself cautious and aware of others. I wear a face mask, diligently wash my hands, and social distance for both myself and the sake of others (in case I happen to be a carrier with no symptoms). I was in the office today (alone) and our accountant's wife dropped in to get something for him (apparently he gave her his key). She stops in the doorway of my office to make idle chit chat and I ask her if she is missing her grandkids. She says she is still seeing them quite often. In the course of the conversation I find out that she doesn't wear a face mask, is upset that her church is still holding virtual services and "doesn't have any fears about getting the virus because she has nothing wrong with her and also God knows what he is doing." I'm thinking please stay the hell away from me. Amazing how ignorant people are, they just refuse to believe things will happen to them. Life has a funny way of getting our attention however
|
|
Artemis Windsong
Senior Associate
The love in me salutes the love in you. M. Williamson
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:32:12 GMT -5
Posts: 12,307
Today's Mood: Twinkling
Location: Wishing Star
Favorite Drink: Fresh, clean cold bottled water.
|
Post by Artemis Windsong on May 1, 2020 22:25:31 GMT -5
I believe medical science will come up with a vaccine and better treatments will evolve as time goes on and more is known. In the meantime, the populous needs to follow directives to protect themselves and others. There continue to be deniers of how serious this virus is. As well as people who know nothing about it.
You are way too optimistic. What part of a virus is at least a year away is difficult to understand. There is no easy and fast way out of this. Science takes time. Unless there is a treatment on the shelf that is a miracle drug, there is a lot of hard work to do to get us out of this. Wishful thinking is not helpful. We need true leadership, unfortunately, that is lacking. If trump was capable, he would be explaining this. I understand there is a lot of work and time goes into vetting a vaccine. I still believe in the medical research field who are diligently working. This is not wishful thinking. It's faith in tried and true scientific method. The research is evolving. We know things today we didn't know in January for treatments. It's a fast crap shoot now but science will find it. Pat yourself on the back pulmonarymd.
|
|
pulmonarymd
Junior Associate
Joined: Feb 12, 2020 17:40:54 GMT -5
Posts: 7,365
Member is Online
|
Post by pulmonarymd on May 2, 2020 8:38:00 GMT -5
You are way too optimistic. What part of a virus is at least a year away is difficult to understand. There is no easy and fast way out of this. Science takes time. Unless there is a treatment on the shelf that is a miracle drug, there is a lot of hard work to do to get us out of this. Wishful thinking is not helpful. We need true leadership, unfortunately, that is lacking. If trump was capable, he would be explaining this. I understand there is a lot of work and time goes into vetting a vaccine. I still believe in the medical research field who are diligently working. This is not wishful thinking. It's faith in tried and true scientific method. The research is evolving. We know things today we didn't know in January for treatments. It's a fast crap shoot now but science will find it. Pat yourself on the back pulmonarymd. False hope is not the way out of it. A vaccine that is able to be given to enough people will not be available for a year, that is a reality. We have to figure a way out of this until then. I am well aware of how medicine works, and how we make progress. Science will get us out of this, but not right away
|
|
teen persuasion
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:49 GMT -5
Posts: 4,037
|
Post by teen persuasion on May 2, 2020 8:46:08 GMT -5
Morning national news was all about the anti shutdown protests, and opening things up. They interviewed mall owners and other business owners about procedures, and they all said mask wearing was a necessity, there'd be enforcement at the door. So it occurs to me that all these people itching to get out and do things had better start wearing the masks they've ignored to this point. Though I can't figure out how you eat in a restaurant while wearing a mask properly.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,432
|
Post by billisonboard on May 2, 2020 9:05:35 GMT -5
... Though I can't figure out how you eat in a restaurant while wearing a mask properly. You arrive and order wearing the mask. You only remove it once your food arrives and the wait staff has moved away. You put it back on anytime the wait staff approaches the table. A royal pain, but doable.
|
|
teen persuasion
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:49 GMT -5
Posts: 4,037
|
Post by teen persuasion on May 2, 2020 9:11:13 GMT -5
... Though I can't figure out how you eat in a restaurant while wearing a mask properly. You arrive and order wearing the mask. You only remove it once your food arrives and the wait staff has moved away. You put it back on anytime the wait staff approaches the table. A royal pain, but doable. I'm reminded of the results of tracking in Wuhan - it seems people can be infected by other restaurant diners 15ft away.
|
|
oped
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 20, 2018 20:49:12 GMT -5
Posts: 4,676
|
Post by oped on May 2, 2020 9:18:10 GMT -5
So you contaminate your mask and handle it repeatedly? Not really a protection.
|
|
movingforward
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 15, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -5
Posts: 8,358
|
Post by movingforward on May 2, 2020 9:21:54 GMT -5
You arrive and order wearing the mask. You only remove it once your food arrives and the wait staff has moved away. You put it back on anytime the wait staff approaches the table. A royal pain, but doable. I'm reminded of the results of tracking in Wuhan - it seems people can be infected by other restaurant diners 15ft away. There is always going to be a risk. I will eventually eat out at some point (not sure when yet). I figure at some point I will have to get out in the world. I will let all the "I'm not afraid of this. It's only the flu" idiots get out there first though. Still, I know that unless I want to stay hunkered down until there is a vaccine, which I don't, I'm going to get out there and do something at some point. I feel like restaurants are a whole lot less riskier than gyms, airplanes, spas, etc. I will miss going to the gym but have decided I probably will not go back there until there is either treatment or a vaccine. Too risky for me. I'm going to order a stationary bike this afternoon.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,432
|
Post by billisonboard on May 2, 2020 9:23:50 GMT -5
You arrive and order wearing the mask. You only remove it once your food arrives and the wait staff has moved away. You put it back on anytime the wait staff approaches the table. A royal pain, but doable. I'm reminded of the results of tracking in Wuhan - it seems people can be infected by other restaurant diners 15ft away. So there is a table distancing requirement.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,432
|
Post by billisonboard on May 2, 2020 9:32:08 GMT -5
So you contaminate your mask and handle it repeatedly? Not really a protection. I use the ear loops to put on and take off my mask. I don't touch the front and move it gently away from and onto my face. Totally absolute perfect protection? No. But then, I also would have to drive to and from the restaurant on public roads.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,372
|
Post by thyme4change on May 2, 2020 10:04:29 GMT -5
I just wish it could all be more voluntary. Restaurants won't be 100% full, they won't need all of their staff. Those that are at higher risk need the ability to say no and still receive government aid. Then people can make decisions for themselves. If someone wants to go out, okay. If someone doesn't want to be out in public, they won't get kicked out of their apartment and starve to death. The rules can go back to normal when Fauci says it is safe (within a margin of how safe we are normally.)
|
|
azucena
Junior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2011 13:23:14 GMT -5
Posts: 5,187
|
Post by azucena on May 2, 2020 10:06:50 GMT -5
Dhs extended family was among those ignoring protocol. His great uncle passed away from cancer. The other great aunts and uncles decided to gather somewhere to have an informal funeral last week. Now we are hearing that one niece in her 40s is hospitalized with the virus. All of these elderly folks are now rethinking their view since they have directly been exposed to someone who was "just fine last week."
They are in IA and we are in MO.
|
|
TheOtherMe
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 14:40:52 GMT -5
Posts: 27,119
Mini-Profile Name Color: e619e6
|
Post by TheOtherMe on May 2, 2020 10:16:37 GMT -5
I'm sorry your family had to learn the hard way azucena Hope the niece recovers.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,372
|
Post by thyme4change on May 2, 2020 12:12:55 GMT -5
Dhs extended family was among those ignoring protocol. His great uncle passed away from cancer. The other great aunts and uncles decided to gather somewhere to have an informal funeral last week. Now we are hearing that one niece in her 40s is hospitalized with the virus. All of these elderly folks are now rethinking their view since they have directly been exposed to someone who was "just fine last week." They are in IA and we are in MO. D'oh. My husband and I were just debating/discussing relaxing and seeing some friends. 1 other family. We can't get to a comfortable place either do or do not. That said, we debated it while at the coffee shop. So, we already make the exceptions we want to make.
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on May 2, 2020 12:45:15 GMT -5
Morning national news was all about the anti shutdown protests, and opening things up. They interviewed mall owners and other business owners about procedures, and they all said mask wearing was a necessity, there'd be enforcement at the door. So it occurs to me that all these people itching to get out and do things had better start wearing the masks they've ignored to this point. Though I can't figure out how you eat in a restaurant while wearing a mask properly. What makes you think that people who don't want to do the lockdown for the next two years don't want to wear masks? My state has had less than 5000 cases, despite very high testing per capita, and less than 50 deaths. And some counties are opening up soon. But when I go out, the majority of people are in masks.
|
|
thyme4change
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 26, 2010 13:54:08 GMT -5
Posts: 40,372
|
Post by thyme4change on May 2, 2020 13:00:31 GMT -5
Morning national news was all about the anti shutdown protests, and opening things up. They interviewed mall owners and other business owners about procedures, and they all said mask wearing was a necessity, there'd be enforcement at the door. So it occurs to me that all these people itching to get out and do things had better start wearing the masks they've ignored to this point. Though I can't figure out how you eat in a restaurant while wearing a mask properly. What makes you think that people who don't want to do the lockdown for the next two years don't want to wear masks? My state has had less than 5000 cases, despite very high testing per capita, and less than 50 deaths. And some counties are opening up soon. But when I go out, the majority of people are in masks. I think it is just a statement about most of the protesters they are showing on TV. I don't think the protesters are doing a very good job of representing the people who want to re-open. I also think the protesters and people who think like them are in the minority. I believe most people that are supportive of re-opening want a well thought out plan with proper precautions and rules. I also believe they don't think storming the capital with automatic weapons is a good idea either. I hear the criticism that the media is blowing the virus out of proportion and wants to scare us. But I also think the media is giving too much time and weight to the protesters. They aren't doing a good job discussing the pro's and con's of a difficult and complicated decision.
|
|
pulmonarymd
Junior Associate
Joined: Feb 12, 2020 17:40:54 GMT -5
Posts: 7,365
Member is Online
|
Post by pulmonarymd on May 2, 2020 13:11:46 GMT -5
What makes you think that people who don't want to do the lockdown for the next two years don't want to wear masks? My state has had less than 5000 cases, despite very high testing per capita, and less than 50 deaths. And some counties are opening up soon. But when I go out, the majority of people are in masks. I think it is just a statement about most of the protesters they are showing on TV. I don't think the protesters are doing a very good job of representing the people who want to re-open. I also think the protesters and people who think like them are in the minority. I believe most people that are supportive of re-opening want a well thought out plan with proper precautions and rules. I also believe they don't think storming the capital with automatic weapons is a good idea either. I hear the criticism that the media is blowing the virus out of proportion and wants to scare us. But I also think the media is giving too much time and weight to the protesters. They aren't doing a good job discussing the pro's and con's of a difficult and complicated decision. How is the media blowing it of proportion? I know you aren’t saying it. More Americans have died in 4 months from this than died in Vietnam. It will likely be the third leading cause of death in th US this year. If that is not an important story, I don’t know what is
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on May 2, 2020 13:17:13 GMT -5
What makes you think that people who don't want to do the lockdown for the next two years don't want to wear masks? My state has had less than 5000 cases, despite very high testing per capita, and less than 50 deaths. And some counties are opening up soon. But when I go out, the majority of people are in masks. I think it is just a statement about most of the protesters they are showing on TV. I don't think the protesters are doing a very good job of representing the people who want to re-open. I also think the protesters and people who think like them are in the minority. I believe most people that are supportive of re-opening want a well thought out plan with proper precautions and rules. I also believe they don't think storming the capital with automatic weapons is a good idea either. I hear the criticism that the media is blowing the virus out of proportion and wants to scare us. But I also think the media is giving too much time and weight to the protesters. They aren't doing a good job discussing the pro's and con's of a difficult and complicated decision. What they're showing on TV isn't necessarily what the majority of protesters are doing, and certainly isn't necessarily what the majority of people who want to open up are doing. A bunch of people being idiots is going to make a much more interesting video than filming a bunch of cars with people sitting inside them. You could have 10,000 people at a protest observing social distancing and wearing masks, but the 200 yahoos who are being idiots are the only ones getting any airtime. At the very few protests I've gone to, it's always the handful of unhinged weirdos that end up in the news the next day. They're just more interesting.
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on May 2, 2020 13:30:00 GMT -5
I think it is just a statement about most of the protesters they are showing on TV. I don't think the protesters are doing a very good job of representing the people who want to re-open. I also think the protesters and people who think like them are in the minority. I believe most people that are supportive of re-opening want a well thought out plan with proper precautions and rules. I also believe they don't think storming the capital with automatic weapons is a good idea either. I hear the criticism that the media is blowing the virus out of proportion and wants to scare us. But I also think the media is giving too much time and weight to the protesters. They aren't doing a good job discussing the pro's and con's of a difficult and complicated decision. How is the media blowing it of proportion? I know you aren’t saying it. More Americans have died in 4 months from this than died in Vietnam. It will likely be the third leading cause of death in th US this year. If that is not an important story, I don’t know what is If the media only talks about coronavirus deaths, while completely ignoring numbers of people who will die of lockdown induced poverty, abuse and despair deaths, that's one way they could be blowing things out of proportion. The lockdown is saving a lot of people from dying of coronavirus, but it is also causing a lot of other lives to be ruined or ended. Opposition to the lockdown isn't just about some yahoo wanting to get a haircut.
|
|
pulmonarymd
Junior Associate
Joined: Feb 12, 2020 17:40:54 GMT -5
Posts: 7,365
Member is Online
|
Post by pulmonarymd on May 2, 2020 13:35:12 GMT -5
How is the media blowing it of proportion? I know you aren’t saying it. More Americans have died in 4 months from this than died in Vietnam. It will likely be the third leading cause of death in th US this year. If that is not an important story, I don’t know what is If the media only talks about coronavirus deaths, while completely ignoring numbers of people who will die of lockdown induced poverty, abuse and despair deaths, that's one way they could be blowing things out of proportion. The lockdown is saving a lot of people from dying of coronavirus, but it is also causing a lot of other lives to be ruined or ended. Opposition to the lockdown isn't just about some yahoo wanting to get a haircut. How do people get care if hospitals have to care for coronavirus patients disproportionately. If trump and the republicans cared about the people being hurt, they would not be giving corporations billions of dollars. One estimate is 2 million dead if we do nothing. What is the estimate of dead for your issue? They are complaining about all kinds of issues that are less important than life and death. If they want to be taken seriously, they need to have a different message, show they take this seriously by avoiding large groups, and not wave about guns. Otherwise STFU
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,432
|
Post by billisonboard on May 2, 2020 13:40:37 GMT -5
... What they're showing on TV isn't necessarily what the majority of protesters are doing, and certainly isn't necessarily what the majority of people who want to open up are doing. A bunch of people being idiots is going to make a much more interesting video than filming a bunch of cars with people sitting inside them. You could have 10,000 people at a protest observing social distancing and wearing masks, ... Yeah, there are a lot of "isn't necessarily ... could have" things.
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on May 2, 2020 14:56:21 GMT -5
If the media only talks about coronavirus deaths, while completely ignoring numbers of people who will die of lockdown induced poverty, abuse and despair deaths, that's one way they could be blowing things out of proportion. The lockdown is saving a lot of people from dying of coronavirus, but it is also causing a lot of other lives to be ruined or ended. Opposition to the lockdown isn't just about some yahoo wanting to get a haircut. How do people get care if hospitals have to care for coronavirus patients disproportionately. If trump and the republicans cared about the people being hurt, they would not be giving corporations billions of dollars. One estimate is 2 million dead if we do nothing. What is the estimate of dead for your issue? They are complaining about all kinds of issues that are less important than life and death. If they want to be taken seriously, they need to have a different message, show they take this seriously by avoiding large groups, and not wave about guns. Otherwise STFU Suicide and drug use each kill tens of thousands of people every year in this country. And let's not forget homicide. These things are a heck of a lot more common among people who can't get a decent job. But, by all means, let's destroy this nation's economy, turn the entire country into West Virginia and pretend that nobody is going to get hurt. If you want to see the death toll from the lockdown, just look at the drug overdose, suicide and homicide rates in the inner cities and Appalachia and extrapolate it to the rest of the country. But I doubt that anybody you'd listen to is even bothering to look at this. Do you think Obama was evil when he bailed out the auto industry, or are you glad that a bunch of union guys didn't loose their livelihoods and end up turning to drugs and crime? Or is giving corporations money so they can keep people gainfully employed only a good thing if the person in the White House is someone you like? Any movement or political party is going to have people who act like morons. Those people in Michigan who are standing shoulder to shoulder at protests without masks and with guns are being morons. Nobody is arguing that. That doesn't give you the right to paint everybody who disagrees with you with a broad brush. There are plenty of thoughtful people in local governments all over the country who don't agree with you on everything who are agonizing over the decision on whether or not to open up and how to do it. Some of them are going to act stupidly. Some will make honest mistakes. But your assessment on whether they were mistaken or evil shouldn't entirely depend on whether or not they have the same political views as you do. My state shut down before New York did, when there were less than 50 cases. They were especially proactive about the nursing homes. Poor kids have been picking up sack lunches at the neighborhood schools for the past 2 months. We have an exceptionally high per capita testing rate. As a result, 2 months into the lockdown, we have less than 5000 cases and less than 50 deaths. We are also one of the reddest states in the union. One reason why we have such a high testing rate is the fact that the pro business politicians partnered with local businesses to ramp up testing since before the lockdown. And now, there is talk of opening up, especially in those rural counties that have had almost no cases. We'll see if they're right, but so far, they've done a pretty good job.
|
|
pulmonarymd
Junior Associate
Joined: Feb 12, 2020 17:40:54 GMT -5
Posts: 7,365
Member is Online
|
Post by pulmonarymd on May 2, 2020 16:35:00 GMT -5
How do people get care if hospitals have to care for coronavirus patients disproportionately. If trump and the republicans cared about the people being hurt, they would not be giving corporations billions of dollars. One estimate is 2 million dead if we do nothing. What is the estimate of dead for your issue? They are complaining about all kinds of issues that are less important than life and death. If they want to be taken seriously, they need to have a different message, show they take this seriously by avoiding large groups, and not wave about guns. Otherwise STFU Suicide and drug use each kill tens of thousands of people every year in this country. And let's not forget homicide. These things are a heck of a lot more common among people who can't get a decent job. But, by all means, let's destroy this nation's economy, turn the entire country into West Virginia and pretend that nobody is going to get hurt. If you want to see the death toll from the lockdown, just look at the drug overdose, suicide and homicide rates in the inner cities and Appalachia and extrapolate it to the rest of the country. But I doubt that anybody you'd listen to is even bothering to look at this. Do you think Obama was evil when he bailed out the auto industry, or are you glad that a bunch of union guys didn't loose their livelihoods and end up turning to drugs and crime? Or is giving corporations money so they can keep people gainfully employed only a good thing if the person in the White House is someone you like? Any movement or political party is going to have people who act like morons. Those people in Michigan who are standing shoulder to shoulder at protests without masks and with guns are being morons. Nobody is arguing that. That doesn't give you the right to paint everybody who disagrees with you with a broad brush. There are plenty of thoughtful people in local governments all over the country who don't agree with you on everything who are agonizing over the decision on whether or not to open up and how to do it. Some of them are going to act stupidly. Some will make honest mistakes. But your assessment on whether they were mistaken or evil shouldn't entirely depend on whether or not they have the same political views as you do. My state shut down before New York did, when there were less than 50 cases. They were especially proactive about the nursing homes. Poor kids have been picking up sack lunches at the neighborhood schools for the past 2 months. We have an exceptionally high per capita testing rate. As a result, 2 months into the lockdown, we have less than 5000 cases and less than 50 deaths. We are also one of the reddest states in the union. One reason why we have such a high testing rate is the fact that the pro business politicians partnered with local businesses to ramp up testing since before the lockdown. And now, there is talk of opening up, especially in those rural counties that have had almost no cases. We'll see if they're right, but so far, they've done a pretty good job. Don’t you paint me with that brush. The republicans are the ones who demand loyalty to their position. I am putting myself directly in harms way. Are you? I think I have better insight into this than you do. This has already killed more people than gun violence and auto accidents. The idiots protesting are being egged on by the president, and very few republicans stand up to him. Again, if we are so worried about people starving, we should give THEM money, and not corporations. Let them all fail. Why should I give a fuck, they have no interest in the good of the country beyond their ability to make money. Maybe they will be replaced by ones that actually care about the good of our country and their employees. If states were following the science and were actually following guidelines to loosening restrictions, I would give them a pass. Mistakes will be made because no one has the correct answer. But the lack of leadership at the national level is going to cause us problems. We will have a second wave, and before we open up all the way, the supply chain needs to be replenished, so hospitals can actually take care of the problems that have been pushed aside, and they can be ready for round 2, b Ed cause it is coming. Not if, but when. And if we are no better prepared, that is a sorry statement for our country. This is a complex problem, but we have idiots protesting and also fighting public health laws. And the president is offering no leadership. If you think I am critical because they don’t agree with me, the hell with you. I can appreciate nuance, can you
|
|
formerroomate99
Junior Associate
Joined: Sept 12, 2011 13:33:12 GMT -5
Posts: 7,381
|
Post by formerroomate99 on May 2, 2020 19:25:54 GMT -5
Pulmonary, I live in a state that is entirely controlled by Republicans, and they have been very cautious about locking down and opening up. They've also been pretty good about testing, including offering free testing. And they've done all of this without getting into a pissing match with the president. So I don't get where you get the idea that you have to be reckless to belong to the Republican party.
The feds have set up a criteria for opening up that very few areas will meet. He's left the final decision up to the states, mostly because he really doesn't have any other choice. If the locals make bad decisions, that's on them. We saw plenty of stupid at the local level when Obama was in office. For example, is Obama responsible for Ferguson? I don't think so.
Yes, the protesters in Michigan have acted like idiots, and yes the President should have been discouraging it instead of egging them on. We are in complete agreement on that. And yes, there will be a second and third wave for any area that opens up, which is why being prepared for the inevitable spike is part of the federal criteria for opening up.
If you want to let every company that can't survive a 2-18 month lockdown go down the tubes, fine, but if you do that, you could end up causing a lot more harm to the little guy than what you're saving on corporate bailouts can fix. Fear of the future is a factor here. I've been job hunting during this pandemic, and a lot of companies whose core business is not affected by the lockdown are doing layoffs and hiring freezes because they don't know what the future holds. Other businesses will eventually take the place of the ones that failed, but it won't happen for a while. It's not easy to start a new business when the economy is in the tank, the banks aren't lending, and your customers can't or won't spend money. Are you ok with having 25-50% of the working age population on welfare for the next 5-10 years just so no federal money goes to bail out corporations?
|
|
pulmonarymd
Junior Associate
Joined: Feb 12, 2020 17:40:54 GMT -5
Posts: 7,365
Member is Online
|
Post by pulmonarymd on May 2, 2020 20:12:09 GMT -5
Pulmonary, I live in a state that is entirely controlled by Republicans, and they have been very cautious about locking down and opening up. They've also been pretty good about testing, including offering free testing. And they've done all of this without getting into a pissing match with the president. So I don't get where you get the idea that you have to be reckless to belong to the Republican party. The feds have set up a criteria for opening up that very few areas will meet. He's left the final decision up to the states, mostly because he really doesn't have any other choice. If the locals make bad decisions, that's on them. We saw plenty of stupid at the local level when Obama was in office. For example, is Obama responsible for Ferguson? I don't think so. Yes, the protesters in Michigan have acted like idiots, and yes the President should have been discouraging it instead of egging them on. We are in complete agreement on that. And yes, there will be a second and third wave for any area that opens up, which is why being prepared for the inevitable spike is part of the federal criteria for opening up. If you want to let every company that can't survive a 2-18 month lockdown go down the tubes, fine, but if you do that, you could end up causing a lot more harm to the little guy than what you're saving on corporate bailouts can fix. Fear of the future is a factor here. I've been job hunting during this pandemic, and a lot of companies whose core business is not affected by the lockdown are doing layoffs and hiring freezes because they don't know what the future holds. Other businesses will eventually take the place of the ones that failed, but it won't happen for a while. It's not easy to start a new business when the economy is in the tank, the banks aren't lending, and your customers can't or won't spend money. Are you ok with having 25-50% of the working age population on welfare for the next 5-10 years just so no federal money goes to bail out corporations? I’m just doing what republicans do when they talk about liberals. If you have rational republicans good for you. What you don’t get is that nobody will care about the economy if we do not control the infection. That is a prerequisite to get the economy restarted. Stopping and starting will wreck havoc on the economy. Don’t believe me, read what economist project if the infection is unchecked. Nobody has been able to keep it down when they have recheck it. If nobody can reach the federal government’s requirements, who came up with the list. Either the list is wrong, which is trumps fault, or it is right, and we need to go longer. Your choice as to which is correct. If no one meets the guidelines, maybe trump should actually act like the president instead of casting blame. The virus does not respect borders and does not care about what we want. Some state screws up, and it will spread to the surrounding area, guaranteed. Lots of places are taking a high stakes gamble. Finally, if money is more important than people, leaders should make that argument and let the people decide. But arguing the science is wrong, ignoring the science, and trying to hide the severity of the outbreak is criminal, and the red state governors and trump are doing it
|
|
teen persuasion
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:49 GMT -5
Posts: 4,037
|
Post by teen persuasion on May 2, 2020 20:25:11 GMT -5
Morning national news was all about the anti shutdown protests, and opening things up. They interviewed mall owners and other business owners about procedures, and they all said mask wearing was a necessity, there'd be enforcement at the door. So it occurs to me that all these people itching to get out and do things had better start wearing the masks they've ignored to this point. Though I can't figure out how you eat in a restaurant while wearing a mask properly. What makes you think that people who don't want to do the lockdown for the next two years don't want to wear masks? My state has had less than 5000 cases, despite very high testing per capita, and less than 50 deaths. And some counties are opening up soon. But when I go out, the majority of people are in masks. When I've gone out since the mask requirements were instituted nearly all people were wearing them, too. But every news report with video shows crowds shoulder to shoulder not social distancing and the majority not wearing masks. I've been reading tv channel website stories and newspaper website stories and Twitter links, and the comments or responses to them, to gauge a larger group of opinions - where people stand on the issue. It's very clear that those participating in the protests are not inclined to follow the rules, especially for the good of others. They want to be free of what they feel are unnecessary restrictions, merely because they don't like them. It's also clear that most do not agree with the protesters and are not ready to open up yet, to give the numbers of cases more time to decline. I've seen polls with 80-95% want to wait and are staying home as they can. But the protesters are vocal and visible in public, and news outlets giving them coverage make them seem a larger portion of the population, giving them outsize strength. I wish the media would not grant the noncompliant protesters such a loud voice, while remaining silent on the fact that 80-95% do not agree and ARE willing to continue the Pause.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 19, 2024 15:39:16 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2020 9:27:29 GMT -5
Pulmonary, I live in a state that is entirely controlled by Republicans, and they have been very cautious about locking down and opening up. They've also been pretty good about testing, including offering free testing. And they've done all of this without getting into a pissing match with the president. So I don't get where you get the idea that you have to be reckless to belong to the Republican party. The feds have set up a criteria for opening up that very few areas will meet. He's left the final decision up to the states, mostly because he really doesn't have any other choice. If the locals make bad decisions, that's on them. We saw plenty of stupid at the local level when Obama was in office. For example, is Obama responsible for Ferguson? I don't think so. Yes, the protesters in Michigan have acted like idiots, and yes the President should have been discouraging it instead of egging them on. We are in complete agreement on that. And yes, there will be a second and third wave for any area that opens up, which is why being prepared for the inevitable spike is part of the federal criteria for opening up. If you want to let every company that can't survive a 2-18 month lockdown go down the tubes, fine, but if you do that, you could end up causing a lot more harm to the little guy than what you're saving on corporate bailouts can fix. Fear of the future is a factor here. I've been job hunting during this pandemic, and a lot of companies whose core business is not affected by the lockdown are doing layoffs and hiring freezes because they don't know what the future holds. Other businesses will eventually take the place of the ones that failed, but it won't happen for a while. It's not easy to start a new business when the economy is in the tank, the banks aren't lending, and your customers can't or won't spend money. Are you ok with having 25-50% of the working age population on welfare for the next 5-10 years just so no federal money goes to bail out corporations? Well, you should be able to find a job in the next couple of months in the areas currently opening up because they will have fewer workers soon... The prediction without lockdowns is 2.2 million Americans dead, 64 million internationally. Since we are trying so hard, I'd assume we just might make the goal yet.
|
|
jerseygirl
Senior Member
Joined: May 13, 2018 7:43:08 GMT -5
Posts: 4,748
|
Post by jerseygirl on May 3, 2020 9:34:58 GMT -5
Pulmonary, I live in a state that is entirely controlled by Republicans, and they have been very cautious about locking down and opening up. They've also been pretty good about testing, including offering free testing. And they've done all of this without getting into a pissing match with the president. So I don't get where you get the idea that you have to be reckless to belong to the Republican party. The feds have set up a criteria for opening up that very few areas will meet. He's left the final decision up to the states, mostly because he really doesn't have any other choice. If the locals make bad decisions, that's on them. We saw plenty of stupid at the local level when Obama was in office. For example, is Obama responsible for Ferguson? I don't think so. Yes, the protesters in Michigan have acted like idiots, and yes the President should have been discouraging it instead of egging them on. We are in complete agreement on that. And yes, there will be a second and third wave for any area that opens up, which is why being prepared for the inevitable spike is part of the federal criteria for opening up. If you want to let every company that can't survive a 2-18 month lockdown go down the tubes, fine, but if you do that, you could end up causing a lot more harm to the little guy than what you're saving on corporate bailouts can fix. Fear of the future is a factor here. I've been job hunting during this pandemic, and a lot of companies whose core business is not affected by the lockdown are doing layoffs and hiring freezes because they don't know what the future holds. Other businesses will eventually take the place of the ones that failed, but it won't happen for a while. It's not easy to start a new business when the economy is in the tank, the banks aren't lending, and your customers can't or won't spend money. Are you ok with having 25-50% of the working age population on welfare for the next 5-10 years just so no federal money goes to bail out corporations? Well, you should be able to find a job in the next couple of months in the areas currently opening up because they will have fewer workers soon... The prediction without lockdowns is 2.2 million Americans dead, 64 million internationally. Since we are trying so hard, I'd assume we just might make the goal yet. That’s really an unkind response to someone who’s trying to find a job
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 19, 2024 15:39:16 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2020 9:48:59 GMT -5
I don't think it's unkind at all. Being out of work sucks. Soon many people will die who had jobs. Jobs will open up. That's the way life works. And, in areas who are forcing early openings, those numbers will likely skyrocket.
|
|
pulmonarymd
Junior Associate
Joined: Feb 12, 2020 17:40:54 GMT -5
Posts: 7,365
Member is Online
|
Post by pulmonarymd on May 3, 2020 10:13:22 GMT -5
Well, you should be able to find a job in the next couple of months in the areas currently opening up because they will have fewer workers soon... The prediction without lockdowns is 2.2 million Americans dead, 64 million internationally. Since we are trying so hard, I'd assume we just might make the goal yet. That’s really an unkind response to someone who’s trying to find a job He said the blue states should just go bankrupt, and suffer as they are not “well run”, so I think this is perfectly fine. Also implying money is more important than lives
|
|